^

It's called sunk costs and investment in the future.

Absolutely every auto manufacturer is moving very strongly to EVs and there are loads of new start-ups as well.


I still don't know what to think of Canoo and some of the new companies but the established automakers are all-in on EVs which in itself will keep driving the entire industry in that direction.

Yep, they are all in, which is why they are going to feel stupid. Anyhow, I can wait. It's not my money.

Read a story the other day that was humorous. Don't know if I was a joke or a true anecdote from someone's life.

Parent stops to get gas, tries to teach 10 year old how to pump it.

10 year old says: "Jeez, Dad, appreciate the life lesson but I'm never going to have to do this as an adult. Reminds me of the time you talked to me about pay phones."

Yep, they are all in, which is why they are going to feel stupid. Anyhow, I can wait. It's not my money.

Lucky for you that you know the auto industry better than car executives.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-12/charging-into-the-future-the-transition-to-electric-vehicles.htm

"Although forecasts for the rate of EV adoption over the next decade vary widely given rapid changes in both government policies and the auto manufacturing industry in recent years—many forecasts expect a strong acceleration in EV adoption. S&P Global Mobility forecasts electric vehicle sales in the United States could reach 40 percent of total passenger car sales by 2030, and more optimistic projections foresee electric vehicle sales surpassing 50 percent by 2030."

Read a story the other day that was humorous. Don't know if I was a joke or a true anecdote from someone's life.

Parent stops to get gas, tries to teach 10 year old how to pump it.

10 year old says: "Jeez, Dad, appreciate the life lesson but I'm never going to have to do this as an adult. Reminds me of the time you talked to me about pay phones."

About 15 years ago I was visiting OKC and rented a car. It had crank windows! I had not seen those in a long time and I'm not sure you can even find them on any car now sold in this country (there is a handful of base trucks, I believe).

My friend's 14-year-old son was riding with me and I asked him if he knew what the funny-looking lever was for. He guessed it had to do with air conditioning.

About 15 years ago I was visiting OKC and rented a car. It had crank windows! I had not seen those in a long time and I'm not sure you can even find them on any car now sold in this country (there is a handful of base trucks, I believe).

My friend's 14-year-old son was riding with me and I asked him if he knew what the funny-looking lever was for. He guessed it had to do with air conditioning.

That's funny!

Regarding EVs, anyone working in the auto industry today either directly witnessed or knows in great detail how the American companies used a combination of protectionist laws and head-in-the-sand hubris to completely miss out on the fact the Japanese makers had been building a far better product for some time.

And even when Honda and Toyota were finally allowed to import decent numbers, the best the scrambling Americans could do was to quickly come up with abortions like the Vega and Pinto (and many other cringy models that were worse still).

In many ways, the American companies never caught up and are now getting kicked around by the Koreans and certainly out-engineered by the Europeans. Their lack of competitiveness has been largely masked by the astonishing popularity of massive trucks and SUVs, which was much more a product of luck rather than vision.

And so they sit today making almost all their profit from huge ICE vehicles but this time can see the train coming down the tracks. They can either miss out yet again and fade into nothingness (which would have happened a long time ago if not for incredible tax-payer bailouts) or for the first time since the middle of last century, try to at least keep up.

On the EV front (i.e. the future) Ford has done a great job with the new Mustang and the Lightning truck. Should help pave the way to where this industry is heading and help them remain competitive when companies not currently on anyone's radar start producing fantastic new products seemingly out of nowhere.

Lucky for you that you know the auto industry better than car executives.


In my defense, I have never bankrupted an auto company or needed a government bailout to stay afloat. How many auto executives can say that?

Auto executives are tied for last with airline executives. Not to be out-done though are Tech and Banking executives. Crap, we have a lot of sucky corporate leaders.

I have a '22 Jeep Gladiator with crank windows

On the EV front (i.e. the future) Ford has done a great job with the new Mustang and the Lightning truck. .

Although may be a great vehicle...they have forever besmirched the name Mustang with putting it on a vehicle more ugly than the the Mustang II

Read a story the other day that was humorous. Don't know if I was a joke or a true anecdote from someone's life.

Parent stops to get gas, tries to teach 10 year old how to pump it.

10 year old says: "Jeez, Dad, appreciate the life lesson but I'm never going to have to do this as an adult. Reminds me of the time you talked to me about pay phones."

6 years from now. Sorry kid, I sold that 'antique ' car because you said everyone would have an electric car by now. Had to get some value from it while I still could. Would have given it to you otherwise.

I have a '22 Jeep Gladiator with crank windows

Electric windows and possible dips into the water do not go well together. That's a thought that goes through my mind when we have flash flooding. A glass breaker is a nice accessory to have for piece of mind.

Electric windows and possible dips into the water do not go well together. That's a thought that goes through my mind when we have flash flooding. A glass breaker is a nice accessory to have for piece of mind.

The Gladiator windows are hand crack so the doors can come off easily. Much more difficult to remove a Jeep's powered doors. It also costs less and door weights a lot less without the electric motor.

The Gladiator windows are hand crack so the doors can come off easily. Much more difficult to remove a Jeep's powered doors. It also costs less and door weights a lot less without the electric motor.

yep. there was actually a video that JEEP had out for awhile on it (couldn't find it now with a quick search), where they talked about the design decisions on it, and the ability to take the doors off was listed as the reason for the hand crank windows. it was saying that they met with hundreds of JEEP owners about what they would want with the Gladiator, and said that the ability to easily remove doors and top were still very high on the list of almost every owner.

yep. there was actually a video that JEEP had out for awhile on it (couldn't find it now with a quick search), where they talked about the design decisions on it, and the ability to take the doors off was listed as the reason for the hand crank windows. it was saying that they met with hundreds of JEEP owners about what they would want with the Gladiator, and said that the ability to easily remove doors and top were still very high on the list of almost every owner.

Not disagreeing with you. My Rubicon has power windows. It is a single plug on each door. Adds 30-45 seconds to removal or installation of doors.

Not disagreeing with you. My Rubicon has power windows. It is a single plug on each door. Adds 30-45 seconds to removal or installation of doors.

out of curiosity, how much weight does that add to the door compared to the ones without?

I just looked up how much a window regulator weighs in a jeep. It is just over 3 pounds with the motor attached. So if you add brackets and a window switch? You are maybe talking 6 more pounds per door? So nothing.

According to Jeep, the power doors on a Gladiator weight 60 pounds each. Not sure what an unpowered door weights. On Youtube it takes about 5 minutes to remove a powered Gladiator door with many people reporting that they damaged their doors, mainly for not pulling their mirrors in first.

Anyhow, YouTube has lots of videos for anyone interested.

I think everyone should ask themselves do they want to Chinese cars to eclipse American? Because the leadership in China saw that most of the world wasn't investing in EV's so they invested in it and are the largest EV market in the world.

Tesla is good but other American companies need to invest in EVs this is about competition and even jobs. If they don't invest EVs they export less and we have fewer jobs here. Some companies may not make it and only the strongest will survive. But shrugging your shoulders and saying "well they're gonna lose all their money and let's not invest in evs."

Look at who produces the most trains in the world. As of now who is building the most nuclear reactors? Who has the largest ports? The most subway systems? We didn't invest and we got passed up. This is about evs plus about other sectors of the economy where we do not invest.

https://seekingalpha.com/pr/19247780-canoo-inc-announces-fourth-quarter-and-fiscal-year-2022-financial-results

out of curiosity, how much weight does that add to the door compared to the ones without?

I have never weighed them They aren"t light but one person can do the job.

https://seekingalpha.com/pr/19247780-canoo-inc-announces-fourth-quarter-and-fiscal-year-2022-financial-results

Is that as bad at it looks? Not very well versed in start up investments.

Not that great.
But this next 1-2yrs will be their make or break. They will be accelerating their manufacturing this year and just brought on a new CEO with similar experience.

> Mr. Damoa has held critical leadership positions at early start ups and well-established corporations. His history includes Flight Module Logistics Management at SpaceX, Integration Project Manager at Northrop Grumann, Vice President at Romeo Power Technology, Vice President at XOS Trucks, Logistics & Safety Director at Canoo, and VP of Operations at Serial 1 Cycle Company.

I actually got a few hundred shares. Like I might lose $200 but I figure they will go up from where they are. Plus they are investing in the area so I support that.

Not that great.


I actually got a few hundred shares. Like I might lose $200 but I figure they will go up from where they are. Plus they are investing in the area so I support that.

I did same $560 for 1000 shares. I donate more than that to the tribal casinos on a night out so dont mind the gamble.















































i

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-trims-millions-in-pledged-incentives-to-ev-maker-canoo-after-delays-and-shifting-plans/

"The electric vehicle startup Canoo missed a key deadline and lost out on a deal to reap up to $10 million in state incentives from Oklahoma after failing to start construction on a factory in Pryor.

And the company could forfeit the right to collect millions more in state money if it doesn’t finalize the purchase of an Oklahoma City plant later this year, according to documents obtained by The Frontier."

Canoo chief design officer Richard Kim departs EV maker | Fortune
https://fortune.com/2023/04/06/canoo-chief-design-officer-richard-kim-departs/

“Aquila said the company hopes to get cars off the assembly line in Oklahoma City by the end of 2023 and has already begun moving manufacturing equipment there. But one analyst predicts the company will only produce a “modest” number of vehicles this year.”

Quote from their earnings call last week yet now we hear they haven’t even finalized the purchase of the old TEREX facility. Full disclosure I’m a shareholder here but this is turning into a smoke & mirror game real quick.

I’m a shareholder here but this is turning into a smoke & mirror game real quick.

annd it's gone.

Startup struggles are understandable, but there is a massive gap between what this company keeps saying and what they actually do.

I figure there will be more EV failures than successes, so I'm not totally surprised here. It's rather disappointing though, and at this point it's hard to take any positive Canoo news seriously.

exactly. like all of the statements about OKC assembly means nothing until they at least finalize a purchase of a facility to perform the assembly

https://tulsaworld.com/business/110-new-jobs-coming-soon-as-canoo-plans-to-assemble-ev-batteries-in-pryor-ceo/article_7a1d6770-d328-11ed-bcc5-ff7f6aa0a41b.html

https://tulsaworld.com/business/110-new-jobs-coming-soon-as-canoo-plans-to-assemble-ev-batteries-in-pryor-ceo/article_7a1d6770-d328-11ed-bcc5-ff7f6aa0a41b.html

again, until there is an approved agreement for a location, then i will believe it

again, until there is an approved agreement for a location, then i will believe it

They do have a location in Pryor that they currently occupy and are building out.

They do have a location in Pryor that they currently occupy and are building out.
Where’s the photos of that? Something more than a sign and some land clearing would be more exciting.

Where’s the photos of that? Something more than a sign and some land clearing would be more exciting.

There are outside and inside photos with the TW article.

KOTV has inside and outside video. The video from inside shows a lot of huge crates that have been delivered and not opened yet.

https://www.newson6.com/story/642e0110a153c0072376d456/canoo-ready-to-open-battery-plant-in-mayes-county

The larger facility is planned in Mid-America, no? That article implies the current facility and larger one will be in two separate areas so I am confused here. I do remember reading that but haven’t heard much sense. You’d think they want to better publicize their progress with pictures of construction all over social media.

Channel 9 just ran a piece at their 5pm newscast that said they acquired a plant. Are they talking about the altered facility? Did they finally close on this or is this Canoo PR trying to save face?

I just checked the Canadian County Assessor site and the Terex property has not changed hands.

Channel 4 reporting the sale closed:

https://kfor.com/news/local/canoo-buys-okc-property-for-electric-vehicle-manufacturing-operations/

They mentioned easy on-site rail access when this was announced, but I don't really see it. Maybe they will build a separate facility nearby for their shipping and receiving and just truck things over as needed? There's a Union Pacific mainline north of I-40 but no easy way to get a rail line to the facility. There would be a very expensive right of way as well as construction of a grade-separated bridge... It would easily be a $40 million project to connect to that. To the south, there's the Stillwater Central Railroad that interchanges with BNSF. There "might" be some preserved right of way just looking at the aerial photos and what looks to possibly be a very old railroad bed...but I am not sure. It would be expensive to lay that much track, but it would be the easiest solution would be to extend the industry track that passes through Hobby Lobby. This would also require the construction of a bridge over Mustang Creek.

https://i.gyazo.com/b9812ad75426b7609eb96a9497de90fc.jpg

Briana Bailey posted this on Twitter: https://ir.stockpr.com/canoo/sec-filings-email/content/0001104659-23-043269/tm2312158d1_8k.htm

Canoo didn’t buy the property but a shell company did. Huh.

Briana Bailey posted this on Twitter: https://ir.stockpr.com/canoo/sec-filings-email/content/0001104659-23-043269/tm2312158d1_8k.htm

Canoo didn’t buy the property but a shell company did. Huh.

I believe they may have bought the property with the intent to immediately sell it to another party who in turn leased it back to them. Since they are so low on cash that may be the only way they could have done the deal.

I’m still not buying Tony’s comments during the last earnings call that 60% of their equipment “is already in OKC”.

I don’t know enough about economics to even have a clue as to what is going on. I’ll just believe this is real deal when they start producing and selling vehicles. :rolleyes:

While the Assessors site does not show the property has sold, the County Clerks does.
17983

RE Broker has sent out announcements the deal has closed.

This article says the facility is being leased...

https://electrek.co/2023/04/10/canoo-goev-2023-customer-deliveries-leasing-oklahoma-manufacturing-facility/

This article says the facility is being leased...

https://electrek.co/2023/04/10/canoo-goev-2023-customer-deliveries-leasing-oklahoma-manufacturing-facility/

I read about the above mentioned lease. I also read in another article that TEREX will still lease a small part of the facility. Maybe that is where the 'lease' came from ?

This article says the facility is being leased...

https://electrek.co/2023/04/10/canoo-goev-2023-customer-deliveries-leasing-oklahoma-manufacturing-facility/

No idea if accurate but I saw something that a company affiliated with the Canoo CEO is who bought the property and leased it back to Canoo.

No idea if accurate but I saw something that a company affiliated with the Canoo CEO is who bought the property and leased it back to Canoo.

that would make sense. it's a fairly common tactic.

Electric vehicle manufacturer Canoo has filed plans to convert the former Terex facility into an assembly plant at Morgan Road and I-40 in far west Oklahoma City.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo110922i.jpg


An LLC that tracks back to the company's CEO had recently purchased the property and leased it to Canoo.

The manufacturing facility will be used for final vehicle assembly utilizing robotics as well as a body shop, paint shop and automated paint line, quality control, complete vehicle testing, and more.

There will also be a training center and test track.

In addition to the 500,000 square feet in existing buildings, there is the capacity to expand on the property's 120 acres. Canoo expects to employ more than 500 people in Phase 1.

Canoo has designed a modular platform to maximize interior space and their vehicles are highly customizable for both businesses and consumers.

Walmart has agreed to purchase 4,500 Evs to be used for delivery and NASA will use their vehicles to transport the Artemis crew for its moon mission.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo110922c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo110922a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo042123b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo042123c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo120922c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo120922a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo110922h.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo110922g.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo041723a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo041723b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo041723c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo041723d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/canoo041723e.jpg

Cool to see the plans, hope it all works out.

Side note: "Mega Micro" is just funny to me.

That’s fantastic news.

With the future potential Pryor plant being the largest, what is that spell for this Terex facility? The production numbers from Pryor eclipse this facility, where it would almost seem to not be worth running both unless this facility could pivot to some other role with the company?

That’s fantastic news.

With the future potential Pryor plant being the largest, what is that spell for this Terex facility? The production numbers from Pryor eclipse this facility, where it would almost seem to not be worth running both unless this facility could pivot to some other role with the company?

Pryor is to be a battery plant.

They have talked about an assembly plant in Pryor but if that was ever to happen, that would be down the road.

Thanks I was just going off of their infographic in your post. 2024+ 400K units I assumed meant vehicles. Obviously the 2024 number may be a bit enthusiastic.

With the future potential Pryor plant being the largest, what is that spell for this Terex facility? The production numbers from Pryor eclipse this facility, where it would almost seem to not be worth running both unless this facility could pivot to some other role with the company?

"Long term, the Oklahoma City facility announced Wednesday will focus on producing defense and specialty products, said Aquila. In April, NASA selected Canoo to provide crew transportation vehicles for the crewed Artemis lunar exploration launches, and in July, the U.S. Army selected Canoo to supply EVs for analysis and demonstration." - https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/09/canoo-to-buy-vehicle-manufacturing-facility-in-oklahoma-city/

Is any of this stuff new or just a rehash of what they put out last year? I guess if nothing else it pumped up their stock price a little.

Is any of this stuff new or just a rehash of what they put out last year? I guess if nothing else it pumped up their stock price a little.

What's new is 1) they bought the Terex property; and 2) filed building permits to convert to an assembly plant.

That's actual investment and action after a lot of talk.

They now have several positions posted on their careers page for the Oklahoma City plant

CANOO INC. ANNOUNCES FIRST QUARTER 2023 RESULTS
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/canoo-inc-announces-first-quarter-2023-results-301825198.html

2023: Losses exceeding $90 million reported by Oklahoma Journal Record.

Tulsa World
Canoo reports loss of $164 million in second quarter From Staff Reports Aug 8, 2022 Updated May 10, 2023: https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/canoo-reports-loss-of-164-million-in-second-quarter/article_5cecd3be-175a-11ed-ae00-3b9a1e887da2.html

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