You can be sure most of this is already decided.

They just have to finalize the agreement with the Thunder ownership, whip up some flashy renderings, create the budget with the sources of funds, then present it to the public probably in September for a December vote.

I still expect it will be on the Cox site and cost about $1 billion. This has been the consensus of everyone that knows anything about this project and it hasn't changed in the last year.

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

Because the city doesn't own that site. They already own the Cox/PS site and that alone would save several millions.

I understand the appeal of the Cox site, but what about the large lot between Scissortail and Myriad Gardens? Isn't it owned by Bob Howard (one of the Thunder owners)? Seems like you could have a transformational design that connects the parks and entire city, it's "free" land (if part of the ownership group's contribution to the project) and you don't have to disrupt the growing film business by demoing the film studio.

The city would have to pay for that site and it’s smaller than the cox site which is already a big obsolete building that takes away form the middle of downtown.

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

No.

My short response is because there is nothing else that needs to be said on this. It has been asked 50 different ways, but the answer is the same.

We got good fast, and stayed that way for a long time, and got spoiled. As long as we can sell tickets, we will keep going. Every NBA team who is not that good has a hard time filling an arena. But OKC's population has grown by alot since 2008. we should be fine.

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

Is there much concern voters won't approve a new arena?

The attendance numbers kind of have me worried about that. Even with one of the largest turnarounds in the league this year, the Thunder still ranked dead last with an average of about 15,000 fans per game.

It was a slight improvement from 2021-22 when they ranked 3rd to last with an average a little under 15,000.

Between COVID and the downturn the team had a few years ago, I can see why people turned away but that they didn't come back more than they did this year is a little concerning.

You do realize we were averaging a sell out during the 2019-2020 season which was the last season before Covid and trading Chris Paul and with maybe one exception (probably was about 99%) had done so since 2008…right?

and actually the Wizards were last in 22-23. Average attendance…isn’t a good measure. Need to use percentage

You do realize we were averaging a sell out during the 2019-2020 season which was the last season before Covid and trading Chris Paul and with maybe one exception (probably was about 99%) had done so since 2008…right?

and actually the Wizards were last in 22-23. Average attendance…isn’t a good measure. Need to use percentage

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

was a great season to suck lol

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

Was thinking about getting half-season tickets for this next season, but ultimately decided to renew my OU basketball tickets instead for exactly this reason.

the thunder being the only team in the entire NBA to not allow any fans in the 20-21 season .. turned off a bunch of season ticket holders ..

That’s okay. They’re being replaced quickly by new season ticket holders.

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

I think more than enough folks are filling in the gap left by those folks who soured. This is why my kids love it - constant interaction and participation. It explains why the NBA has one of the youngest fanbases in all of sports, especially if old folks are souring on it.

I think more than enough folks are filling in the gap left by those folks who soured. This is why my kids love it - constant interaction and participation. It explains why the NBA has one of the youngest fanbases in all of sports, especially if old folks are souring on it.

That's fair. I mean, I suppose they have to do it because there wouldn't be much of an atmosphere without the music, and they need something to drown out all of the bad language used by players and coaches. I imagine that folks in the lower bowl would hear some pretty bad stuff but for the music.

It will be approved by a large margin, but I think a decent number of folks have soured on the game day experience. The constant music/defense chants/etc. during play is extremely annoying to some folks.

There’s always watching it at home in your recliner.

It’s the energy and activity that gets most people juiced. Some just want to eat and doze in front of the fireplace and tv.

was a great season to suck lol

Not allowing fans that season was an act of mercy.

Important to remember how much season tickets impact attendance. Last summer the Thunder were coming off a terrible season, lost their star draft pick to an offseason injury, were predicted to finish in the bottom five and were surrounded by tanking narratives - of course 2022-23 season tickets aren't going to sell!!!

I'll be really curious to see how those numbers go up this year (and they will) given the talent of the young core and serious case for them to be a playoff team.

Was thinking about getting half-season tickets for this next season, but ultimately decided to renew my OU basketball tickets instead for exactly this reason.

If OU doesn't show marked improvement over the previous season it will be real quiet at the LNC.

Some folks online accidentally watched the 2022 State of the City and thought that was it. :)

Yep. It turns out the guy I was following was “live” tweeting last year’s SotC on accident. Hence my confusion why so little seemed to be mentioned on the arena.

Not allowing fans that season was an act of mercy.

LOL very true

In the not too distant future the next generation of Thunder fans will step in. Those 5 to 15 year-olds in 2005 are coming into their own and have been Thunder fans as long as they can remember.

That's fair. I mean, I suppose they have to do it because there wouldn't be much of an atmosphere without the music, and they need something to drown out all of the bad language used by players and coaches. I imagine that folks in the lower bowl would hear some pretty bad stuff but for the music.

This is hilarious. I have on rare occasions had good seats. Once, I sat right behind Westrbrook's wife. I've never heard bad language from the coaches or players.

That being said, I hear F-bombs and more at an average OU football game from fans.

This is just a super weird comment.

This is hilarious. I have on rare occasions had good seats. Once, I sat right behind Westrbrook's wife. I've never heard bad language from the coaches or players.

That being said, I hear F-bombs and more at an average OU football game from fans.

This is just a super weird comment.

Nice enough anecdote, but i’ll respectfully Disagree.

I hear foul language all the time at games (baseball, football, basketball) The sad part is I hear it more from the fans then the coaches and player.

In general it has become more socially acceptable to curse and use vulgar phrases. The times are changing. I can have a pretty foul mouth however I have always felt to use that depends on the setting and the company. At work we call it industrial language. A lot of people don’t filter anymore, though. A little more discretion would help everyone, I feel.

I have sat courtside a handful of times between the Thunder bench and the scorers table. The only cursing I ever heard was from fans when the ref made a bad call. The ref was right in front of me and the players would walk in front of me to check in to the game. For the most part, they were respectful and just talking. It's not a Malice at the Palace kind of thing every night.

They pump up the music to help create energy and atmosphere.

This is done at all sporting events now. It used to be at OU games, the only music was from the band and now it is blasted at any break in the action and in the pregame.

Go to any sporting event anywhere and constant, loud music is the norm and it has nothing to do with drowning out profanity.

I'm going to take a guess that approximately 99% of the profanity at sporting events comes from the fans.

Just to add on here: I've had the fortune to sit courtside a few times. There is absolutely cursing from the players during the game that is audible, but agree that vast majority comes from fans--and typically fans who've had too much to drink and are being belligerent for the sake of being belligerent. It's actually embarrassing and extremely annoying. The cursing from the players is more often than not when they get upset at a mistake they've made rather than out of anger at the ref or other player (unlike the fans).

They pump up the music to help create energy and atmosphere.

This is done at all sporting events now. It used to be at OU games, the only music was from the band and now it is blasted at any break in the action and in the pregame.

Go to any sporting event anywhere and constant, loud music is the norm and it has nothing to do with drowning out profanity.

NCAA/Big 12 rules don't allow artificial noise or the band to play when the ball is in play.

NCAA/Big 12 rules don't allow artificial noise or the band to play when the ball is in play.

That's why I said "pregame" and "break in play".

I'm curious as to the timing of the new arena announcement. I didn't think they would be doing this much legwork (design, for example) without a budget. Unless they are farther along than I thought.

I'm curious as to the timing of the new arena announcement. I didn't think they would be doing this much legwork (design, for example) without a budget. Unless they are farther along than I thought.

they are very very far along i think you can expect renderings at the late summer announcement

they are very very far along i think you can expect renderings at the late summer announcement

Right.

I think everything is pretty much done, they are just waiting for the right time to start their PR announcement and campaign.

This is all very calculated: One year ago, the mayor formally addresses the need for the new arena; yesterday, he is more emphatic and starts talking about the source of funds and timing; in a month or two they will reveal all the details; a big PR campaign will start right afterward; vote in December; once approved the final plans can be drawn; work starts around 2025/26 with completion before the end of 2029.

Right.

I think everything is pretty much done, they are just waiting for the right time to start their PR announcement and campaign.

This is all very calculated: One year ago, the mayor formally addresses the need for the new arena; yesterday, he is more emphatic and starts talking about the source of funds and timing; in a month or two they will reveal all the details; a big PR campaign will start right afterward; vote in December; once approved the final plans can be drawn; work starts around 2025/26 with completion before the end of 2029.

If Holt gets this through, and I have no doubt he has the political ability and capital to do so, this will be his defining moment as mayor. Very exciting times for the city.

If Holt gets this through, and I have no doubt he has the political ability and capital to do so, this will be his defining moment as mayor. Very exciting times for the city.

He is also very heavily involved (due to his relationship with former LA mayor Eric Garcetti) in landing the Olympic events. I'm 99% certain that at least the whitewater events are a done deal.

The new arena plans and the firm plans for the Olympics should both be formally announced in the next several months.

He is also very heavily involved (due to his relationship with former LA mayor Eric Garcetti) in landing the Olympic events. I'm 99% certain that at least the whitewater events are a done deal.

The new arena plans and the firm plans for the Olympics should both be formally announced in the next several months.

and with an extension signed with the Thunder and new arena along with the Olympics has a chance to see further investments into Downtown/Bricktown/Lower Bricktown, and so much more. The ROI from the Cities investment in the new arena will be surpassed 10 fold.

How big do we think the voting margin will be? 55-45 at least?

I'm thinking closer to 66%-33%

Holt was on the Animal this morning. He said he expects 25 to 33 percent to vote no because they vote no for everything. 33 percent are expected to vote yes. And they need to campaign for the other 33ish percent.

The Thunder at one time had a consistent base of fans from the Tulsa and Wichita areas. Those renewals were hit hard following The Covid-19 outbreak.

It may take time to build that base again.

A new arena would “exceed anything our residents have ever experienced,” Holt said. It also will be designed for basketball, unlike Paycom.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Interior_of_the_Dee_Glen_Smith_Spectrum_in_2013.jp g
This is how close the fans are to the court in a basketball specific arena as seen at Utah State University's Dee Glen Smith Spectrum.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujFwlC7nu8

Oklahoma City will have the NBA's only 'basketball specific' arena. The design has good sight lines and puts the fans right on top of the action.

A new arena would “exceed anything our residents have ever experienced,” Holt said. It also will be designed for basketball, unlike Paycom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW2hGbL5DZc

Steve Lackmeyer pouring cold water on this starting before 2028/29.

Steve Lackmeyer pouring cold water on this starting before 2028/29.

I'm not too sure what he really knows. If the vote was approved by the end of the year, design could be completed I'd think in a year which puts us sometime in early 2025. I could see it starting by 2026 or 2027 at the latest.

I'm not too sure what he really knows. If the vote was approved by the end of the year, design could be completed I'd think in a year which puts us sometime in early 2025. I could see it starting by 2026 or 2027 at the latest.

I don't know when the lease with PSM ends. Depending on when, it could take a while after that to even start disassembling the Cox Center. So 2026 is very reasonable.

I'm not too sure what he really knows. If the vote was approved by the end of the year, design could be completed I'd think in a year which puts us sometime in early 2025. I could see it starting by 2026 or 2027 at the latest.

Agreed. He doesn’t know much of anything these days and hasn’t for awhile.

Hopefully the City is making its share of the arena cost contingent on the team rebranding. For as bad as the Paycom Center currently is, the team’s marks and logos are like 10x worse.

Holt specifically mentioned having the arena ready by the end of the decade, which means before 2030.

They wouldn't be finalizing plans and putting this to a vote in a few months only to wait 6 years to start work.

With how massive the site is, depending on the layout PSM could coexist in a smaller footprint while demolition and construction begin in other areas of the site. This would allow simultaneous demo, construction, and relocation of PSM.

The City is losing money on that Praire Surf deal.

Their initial term is up at the end of 2025; they have options beyond that but the City has the right to cancel those options with notice.

So worst case, work could start in early 2026 even if they don't buy out Prairie Surf.

A good cautionary tale about bad investments with public funds. Wonder if we've learned a lesson there.

A good cautionary tale about bad investments with public funds. Wonder if we've learned a lesson there.

Not sure if you're trying to say an arena is a bad investment or not. Or just about other projects.

Not sure if you're trying to say an arena is a bad investment or not. Or just about other projects.

He's talking about the city's deal with Praire Surf

While I absolutely believe the new arena will be on the COX\Prairie Surf site Holt was on the Sports Animal yesterday morning and was pretty hard on the idea that the location would be downtown but no decision had been made yet about precisely where. Of course this was probably all mayor speak.

While I absolutely believe the new arena will be on the COX\Prairie Surf site Holt was on the Sports Animal yesterday morning and was pretty hard on the idea that the location would be downtown but no decision had been made yet about precisely where. Of course this was probably all mayor speak.

Yes, just trying to deflect the idea this has all long been decided.

There is no way they are going to announce detailed plans by the end of the summer (less than 2 months) and not know the site.

With how massive the site is, depending on the layout PSM could coexist in a smaller footprint while demolition and construction begin in other areas of the site. This would allow simultaneous demo, construction, and relocation of PSM.

No way they could operate a sound stage with demo and construction going on in adjacent lots. I've been told freight trains gave them fits.

Yes, just trying to deflect the idea this has all long been decided.

There is no way they are going to announce detailed plans by the end of the summer (less than 2 months) and not know the site.Yeah. That's what I was thinking through the the whole interview.

No way they could operate a sound stage with demo and construction going on in adjacent lots. I've been told freight trains gave them fits.

Maybe they can sign a film based on a construction worker or a war movie?

Good point, I had not considered that.

"The public funding necessary to build the new arena will be supplemented by remaining MAPS 4 dollars that are already earmarked for the downtown arena ($70 million), as I mentioned last year.

And for the first time in city history, these public funding commitments will be joined by a significant financial contribution from the ownership of the Oklahoma City Thunder"--Mayor Holt.

Depends on what the amount of the significant financial contribution. The $70 million could be used for arena design, demolition and site prep. The significant financial contribution could start actual construction; then as the collections from MAPS 4 extension along with potential surplus collections you have the underground parking and main structure finished early--the pace of collections are running about +6% - +10%.

The Cox PSM site will save $150 million with the potential to sell parcels within the 4 square block structure.

Is the $1 billion arena construction cost in stone... The new arena could cost $750 million since you have a site
valued at $150 million. City could build something comparable to Chase Center ($1.4 billion) or Fiserv Forum ($524 million).

While I absolutely believe the new arena will be on the COX\Prairie Surf site Holt was on the Sports Animal yesterday morning and was pretty hard on the idea that the location would be downtown but no decision had been made yet about precisely where. Of course this was probably all mayor speak.

I would think it would be OKC.

I cannot imagine the Thunder playing anywhere else besides Oklahoma City (assuming they don't pack up their bags and leave). The suburbs aren't big enough and do not have the charm and ambience to handle a major market basketball team like Los Angeles or Dallas could. Hitting the restaurants and bars downtown before the game adds to the experience.

Somewhat off topic, but I think playing a few regular home season games at the BoK would benefit the Thunder. It would allow Tulsans to feel more included.

And while I suport a new arena, I don't think the Paycom is that bad. I have been to other arenas with big market sports teams where the arena was far worse. Paycom is pretty good. But I understand having the Thunder is a tremendous net benefit to this state so I wholeheartedly support a new arena. As a young dad, it is a goal of mine to take my boys to a Thunder game someday.