They would not pay to maintain Paycom Center in the offchance it can land a show that has a conflict at the new arena. The city will absolutely cash in on that land and redevelop it once the new arena is up and running across the street.

I'm sure it'll stay up and occassionally function until a development is fully planned and land is paid for, so there may be a few years it's still used.

Nothing has happened for years on the ex dealership next door which is still parking lots, or the properties on the west side of the botanical gardens or new central park which are almost bare land, so it seems unlikely anything worth demolishing it is really happening soon.

All those properties are owned by private entities with no incentive to sell or develop those lots of the price or deal isn’t what they want it to be. The city would be much more incentivized to sell, especially if the buyer demos Paycom for them.

I was just saying DM played the BOK and not Okc. They routinely play the Santa Barbara Bowl and that seats 4500 (Martin Gore has a house there), so I have no idea as to the reasons why tours go where. If you saw their second best selling album then you saw the Devotional tour (Songs of Faith and Devotion) and I saw them play the Coca Cola Starplex in Dallas for that one. Maybe they can tear down the Paycom and make a large Amp to rid the zoo or build a soccer stadium.

If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

Louisville also has two arenas KFC Yum Arena (22,090) and Freedom Hall (18,749) both capacities for basketball with Freedom Hall also
being used as an alternative venue for concerts and large gatherings.


Portland's MSA is 2,509,489 (−0.13%) - much smaller than Portland, yet our MSA continues to grow.
Oklahoma City MSA is 1,459,380 (+2.36%)
Louisville MSA is 1,284,553 (−0.07%) - larger than Louisville, yet Louisville is declining in growth.

You see the same growth pattern with 'CITY' Population while Portland and Louisville loses population.


Oklahoma City CITY - 694,800 (+2.02%)
Portland CITY - 635,067 (−2.67%)
Louisville CITY - 624,444 (−1.36%)



Oklahoma City shouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center once a new arena is built with an NBA anchor tenant.
We have room in the core with space in Strawberry Fields and some space in Lower Bricktown with development (Boardwalk)
that could be going on with the new arena.

It is obvious that the new state fair coliseum (5,000 maximum capacity) will not be able to be used for Class 6A and 5A basketball
tournaments unless you want to pass those on as a permanent site to Tulsa's 8,781 permanent theater seats to the Mabee Center
or BOK Center. Oklahoma City now has a new $288 million convention center next door to the Paycom Center.

The City could also use Paycom Center to bring back the state's FFA convention that we lost to Tulsa when dates could not be guaranteed. Oklahoma City lost $9 million in business from the state's 365 chapters who bring 10,000 members to its annual convention.

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If you keep Paycom there plenty of benefits

If OKC were to host an all star game then they would have two arenas right next to each other that can support all the events that weekend

It cold easily hold minor league hockey, OKC blue, arena football

Portland has 2 arenas at the rose garden I think OKC should use them in a similar way

OKC will never host an All-Star Game. Portland, Memphis and Sacramento (comparable cities) have never hosted ASGs. Milwaukee hasn't hosted since the 70s. Smaller markets that do receive ASGs like New Orleans and SLC are destinations and have strong hotel/tourism backbone and infrastructure. Not happening.

Don't want to get off subject. But IIRC was Portland one of the cities we modeled our Streetcar development.

We are not making any money off the Streetcar. IMO make it free, then after the new 'center piece' arena is built you may want
to re-evaluate a streetcar when after you build robust ridership,

The current State Fair Coliseum hasn't been used for 6A or 5A titles for a long time. They have been at the LNC for the past couple of years, and were previously at the Mabee Center. IMO, the new Coliseum will still have a great shot to host the 4A/3A/2A/A/B finals as it does currently. Capacity will decrease from 10,944 to ~8,000 but attendance for high school sports is also declining. I watched a pair of great 4A semifinals at the Yukon HS Fieldhouse earlier this year, that arena falls well short of an 8,000 seat capacity but still wasn't quite sold out.

Louisville also has two arenas KFC Yum Arena (22,090) and Freedom Hall (18,749) both capacities for basketball with Freedom Hall also
being used as an alternative venue for concerts and large gatherings.


Portland's MSA is 2,509,489 (−0.13%) - much smaller than Portland, yet our MSA continues to grow.
Oklahoma City MSA is 1,459,380 (+2.36%)
Louisville MSA is 1,284,553 (−0.07%) - larger than Louisville, yet Louisville is declining in growth.

You see the same growth pattern with 'CITY' Population while Portland and Louisville loses population.


Oklahoma City CITY - 694,800 (+2.02%)
Portland CITY - 635,067 (−2.67%)
Louisville CITY - 624,444 (−1.36%)



Oklahoma City shouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center once a new arena is built with an NBA anchor tenant.
We have room in the core with space in Strawberry Fields and some space in Lower Bricktown with development (Boardwalk)
that could be going on with the new arena.

It is obvious that the new state fair coliseum (5,000 maximum capacity) will not be able to be used for Class 6A and 5A basketball
tournaments unless you want to pass those on as a permanent site to Tulsa's 8,781 permanent theater seats to the Mabee Center
or BOK Center. Oklahoma City now has a new $288 million convention center next door to the Paycom Center.

The City could also use Paycom Center to bring back the state's FFA convention that we lost to Tulsa when dates could not be guaranteed. Oklahoma City lost $9 million in business from the state's 365 chapters who bring 10,000 members to its annual convention.

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Again, Freedom Hall is NOT in a prime downtown area. It is at the fairgrounds. So quit using it as an example.

Portland's Veteran's Memorial Coliseum is much smaller than the Moda Center. It is maybe a fair comparison, but barely. OKC doesn't need 2 20,000 arenas next to each other. The Paycom Center would be better torn down and developed up. No sense having 2 arenas when tours aren't flooding OKC's doors enough to demand 2 arenas. Hard to induce tour demand.

Again, Freedom Hall is NOT in a prime downtown area. It is at the fairgrounds. So quit using it as an example.

Portland's Veteran's Memorial Coliseum is much smaller than the Moda Center. It is maybe a fair comparison, but barely. OKC doesn't need 2 20,000 arenas next to each other. The Paycom Center would be better torn down and developed up. No sense having 2 arenas when tours aren't flooding OKC's doors enough to demand 2 arenas. Hard to induce tour demand.

You've got to use it regardless. Our new $144 million est., state-of-the-art State Fair Coliseum (under construction at the fairgrounds) only seats 5,000; inadequate for a PBR tour event, the larger State High Schools tournaments should be held in OKC, not Norman. We can expand use two arenas for more events--it would increase Bricktown's ability to expand restaurants.

Paycom Center has 15,152 for ice hockey, 16,591 permanent seats for concerts and 18,203 for basketball.

Do you think NBA basketball and concerts will be in conflict? Two arenas will provide better scheduling options.

A PBR event uses 15,000 or more seats. Do we need to have PBR in the new arena if we continue to use Paycom Center in conjunction
with the new $288 million OKC convention center complex.

Paycom Center could be used for that PBR event as well as the FFA state conventions we lost to Tulsa. Could be brought back to the new OKC
convention center with Paycom Center freeing up the new arena for NBA Thunder basketball dates. Also let's not forget about Collegiate gymnastics which could have the new Thunder arena or Paycom Center as an option.

The PBR tour could continue in Paycom Center while the new arena is used for the Thunder.

Oklahoma City's Stockyard City is the home of the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world. Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio and Houston currently hosts Stock shows, why isn't Oklahoma City with the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world NOT hosting a stock show comparable to those in Texas' three largest MSA?

Again, wouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center, once a new arena is built--there's $190 million invested in Paycom Center.

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New State Fair Coliseum will be overbooked once its built.

You've got to use it regardless. Our new $144 million est., state-of-the-art State Fair Coliseum (under construction at the fairgrounds) only seats 5,000; inadequate for a PBR tour event, the larger State High Schools tournaments should be held in OKC, not Norman. We can expand use two arenas for more events--it would increase Bricktown's ability to expand restaurants.

Paycom Center has 15,152 for ice hockey, 16,591 permanent seats for concerts and 18,203 for basketball.

Do you think NBA basketball and concerts will be in conflict? Two arenas will provide better scheduling options.

A PBR event uses 15,000 or more seats. Do we need to have PBR in the new arena if we continue to use Paycom Center in conjunction
with the new $288 million OKC convention center complex.

Paycom Center could be used for that PBR event as well as the FFA state conventions we lost to Tulsa. Could be brought back to the new OKC
convention center with Paycom Center freeing up the new arena for NBA Thunder basketball dates. Also let's not forget about Collegiate gymnastics which could have the new Thunder arena or Paycom Center as an option.

The PBR tour could continue in Paycom Center while the new arena is used for the Thunder.

Oklahoma City's Stockyard City is the home of the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world. Dallas-Fort Worth, San Antonio and Houston currently hosts Stock shows, why isn't Oklahoma City with the largest stocker/feeder cattle market in the world NOT hosting a stock show comparable to those in Texas' three largest MSA?

Again, wouldn't be so quick to demolish Paycom Center, once a new arena is built--there's $190 million invested in Paycom Center.

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PBR will want to be in the new areana ... as will concerts ...

and if you know where to look it is pretty clear the paycom is DOA of the new arena

Looking forward to the day when Paycom is demo’d and the land is put to a higher/better use.

If the city stays on a nice growth trajectory, should be plenty of demand for luxury mid-rises overlooking the SP.

The more events you can book downtown with two arenas, the more hotel occupancy you will incur. Then you begin looking at expanding or building new hotels--especially 4-Star hotels.

It's not going to take that new arena long to get overbooked. It also insures that Bricktown Entertainment District continues to grow with more
eateries and restaurant type establishments--then this could be a catalyst for expansion of the Bricktown Canal.

You're going to kill Bricktown if it continues to be overcrowded on weekends. An expansion plan for BT should be on the table.

It isn't worth debating you anymore in this. You obviously aren't listening to reason, and how cities much bigger than OKC close arenas once they open a new one. And the Paycom Center will be obsolete by that time, and there is no need for 2 NBA-sized arenas in the prime downtown area. If one was in the suburbs, sure. But not on 2 major blocks in downtown.

But you are trying too hard to argue the other side.

Oh believe me, I'm listening... Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm not reading the arguments being posted.

I watched this forum back when we built the Riversports Rapids facility and many posters were in awe about the pricetag of keeping that
facility open. Now, an opportunity to be apart of the Olympics--where are the naysayers now.

...and as far as the space the Paycom Center arena occupies, just don't see that much building going on DT or in the Core that would
warrant demolition of the Paycom Center once a new venue is built.

Paycom is getting torn down.

Paycom is getting torn down.

I usually dislike succinct responses during larger discussions but this is one of those times it works perfectly.

Oh believe me, I'm listening... Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm not reading the arguments being posted.

I watched this forum back when we built the Riversports Rapids facility and many posters were in awe about the pricetag of keeping that
facility open. Now, an opportunity to be apart of the Olympics--where are the naysayers now.

...and as far as the space the Paycom Center arena occupies, just don't see that much building going on DT or in the Core that would
warrant demolition of the Paycom Center once a new venue is built.

Then you were watching when we had a similar discussion about the Cox Center. As soon as the new Convention Center opened, the Cox was immediately closed to the public and turned into the movie studio. In retrospect, the deal the city made with Prairie Surf Studios was a temporary stopgap until a new arena was announced and built. Obviously, it would make no sense to make an arena announcement in 2020 to 2021 for a very obvious reason.

Scott mentioned a few pages back that the Cox Center was around 20 years after Paycom was built. That's because it had another use as a convention center. The actual arena set empty over 90% of the time. While Paycom is nicer, it has no other use besides being an arena. A role that a new arena would assume and to a lesser degree the smaller arena being built at the fairgrounds.

Does it suck that millions of dollars have been invested in Paycom? Sure, but that's called a sunk cost. You can tell people until your face turns blue that they 'lack imagination', but there are only so many things an arena can be turned into. Financial realities of keeping a facility of that size going will always win in the end.


The Riversports Rapids facility example given is just silly. Its being used exactly what its being built for. If there were a nicer Rapids facility built down the street, the Las Angeles Olympic committee would obviously be looking at that facility.

The Cox convention center was closed because it couldn't be used as a convention center per the Omni agreement.

We lost the FFA 10,000 attendees ($9 million economic) impact convention to Tulsa because we wouldn't commit long tern for it being held in the Paycom Center. You think it's going to get any better when we are down to one arena again.

We are going to be right back in the same situation.

As for the PSM studio, it couldn't be used as a convention center under the agreement we have with the Omni. The agreement with the Omni is the obstacle we will have every time there's a hotel development involved.eg: The Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development (not the residential portion).

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

My best guess would be existing hotel expansion. Does the Omni agreement interfere with hotel expansion--which IMO would be costly.

.

Review the Omni - Oklahoma City Hotel Agreement:



Oklahoma City would pay $85 million for Omni hotel in proposed deal
Steve Lackmeyer
A conceptual design is shown for the $235.5 million, 600-room Omni convention hotel in downtown Oklahoma City. In an agreement with the city, the hotel has pledged to build a AAA four-diamond rating with three to five restaurants and retail at the ground floor. [Rendering provided]

Ten months of negotiations with Omni are wrapped up and the Oklahoma City Council is set to consider an agreement for a $235.5 million, 600-room convention hotel that will require $85.4 million in public assistance.

The 45-year agreement, to be presented Tuesday, also would prohibit the use of tax increment financing and other city assistance for any other hotels downtown with the exception of First National Center. For the entirety of the agreement, the Omni would be the city's official and only “convention center hotel.”

LInk: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/columns/steve-lackmeyer/2017/07/14/oklahoma-city-would-pay-85-million-for-omni-hotel-in-proposed-deal/60588157007/

Source Oklahoman: July 14, 2017

The Cox convention center was closed because it couldn't be used as a convention center per the Omni agreement.

We lost the FFA 10,000 attendees ($9 million economic) impact convention to Tulsa because we wouldn't commit long tern for it being held in the Paycom Center. You think it's going to get any better when we are down to one arena again.

We are going to be right back in the same situation.

As for the PSM studio, it couldn't be used as a convention center under the agreement we have with the Omni. The agreement with the Omni is the obstacle we will have every time there's a hotel development involved.eg: The Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development (not the residential portion).

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

My best guess would be existing hotel expansion. Does the Omni agreement interfere with hotel expansion--which IMO would be costly.

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And the city entered into the Omni agreement because it was a no brainer. Beside the FFA, Cox Center wouldn't have attracted the same level of conventions we would want anyway. Certainly not the ones with deep enough pockets to justify the cox centers operating expenses. FFA is an edge case, Should the city take a loss on operating expenses on a few edge cases?

I'm not saying the city is going to go out and bull doze the Paycom the day after a new arena opens (you seem to be putting words in everyone's mouths). But eventually that's what is going to happen due to financial reasons. Memphis sat on the Pyramid for 5 years with it abandoned before Bass Pro came along and the city had to provide incentives for that to happen. Would they have sat on it that long if it it wasn't a local cultural icon? If I had a guess I would say no.

You mentioned Freedom Hall, that is built on a site that is basically the equivalent of the OK State Fair Park. It wouldn't be around if they built the Yum center across the street.

I'm not saying the city is going to go out and bull doze the Paycom the day after a new arena opens (you seem to be putting words in everyone's mouths).



Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

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Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

.

I don't think anyone is advocating for taking a wrecking ball to Paycom without a plan and just having the land sit vacant like the Bob Howard lot. But it will eventually come down when a plan is set into motion (hopefully quickly).

The Paycom lot will be across the street (or katty corner) to the Omni, Myriad Gardens, Scissortail Park, world-class new NBA arena, Dream Hotel project and potential development of the Bob Howard lot. It will be the most valuable block downtown and the city has flexibility on how to develop it because it owns the land.

Knock down the Cox and build the new arena on that spot. Knock the Paycom down and close off Reno (reroute tram) and make an outdoor experience for game days in the leveled land. Could work.

Knock down the Cox and build the new arena on that spot. Knock the Paycom down and close off Reno (reroute tram) and make an outdoor experience for game days in the leveled land. Could work.

Look at the footprint of the Cox site compared to the footprint of Paycom, they will have enough room to build the new arena and an outdoor experience on the Cox site.

Look at the footprint of the Cox site compared to the footprint of Paycom, they will have enough room to build the new arena and an outdoor experience on the Cox site.

that is the main issue with the paycom it has the smallest footprint in the league .. the new arena will have a much much bigger footprint .

Where did I say that--the day after a new arena opens--put words into everyone's mouths. Find those quotes Please.

Personally, the longer it takes for the city to make a decision on the Paycom Center site, much like they have done with the PSM site--the better it
will be for a good solid decision on what will be done with the site.

A new arena with more total square footage, similar capacity IMO to replace Paycom Center and put OKC on the top ten arenas in the NBA will be our number #1 goal.

.

My apologies if you didn't heavily imply it with this statement.

What will you put at a demolished Paycom Center site, no one is going to build a hotel there without TIF funds--Residential 'yes' as we have planned with the Boardwalk/Dream Hotel Development. DT hotels are what we will need to attract future events.

Anyways we will have to agree to disagree. The city isn't going to sale the Paycom to the first bidder for dirt cheap, but it isn't also going to sit on a vacant arena for several years waiting for a 'dream' offer.

I'm sure most on here can agree that this argument will be repeated a dozen times before a new arena is built. :)

that is the main issue with the paycom it has the smallest footprint in the league .. the new arena will have a much much bigger footprint .

I was looking at Google Earth Pro out of curiosity and both Crypto Center and Madison Square would both easily fit on the Cox site with lots of room to spare. A Thunder experience site would be a great use of 'Potential expansion land'.

I usually dislike succinct responses during larger discussions but this is one of those times it works perfectly.

Literally not worth the breath or brain power.

It’s already been decided. Same thing with the location of the new arena.

My apologies if you didn't heavily imply it with this statement.

Anyways we will have to agree to disagree. The city isn't going to sale the Paycom to the first bidder for dirt cheap, but it isn't also going to sit on a vacant arena for several years waiting for a 'dream' offer.

I'm sure most on here can agree that this argument will be repeated a dozen times before a new arena is built. :)

Agree to disagree... Always :cool: Appreciate you for your response. We all want the best for OKC. Excited about the new arena regardless of what happens to the Paycom Center.

As mentioned before, we should hear from Mayor Holt in (one week) Thursday, July 20th - '23 State of the City Address.11 a.m. - 1 p.m.' Hope he reveals a progress report on the new arena: https://www.okcchamber.com/index.php?src=sba&srctype=geteventdetails&datasource=geteventdetails&cale_id=2971&utm_source=Point&utm_medium=Online&utm_campaign=JulPoint23&utm_content=StateCity7_6_23

Mayor Holt's State of the City Address (SCA) is Thursday, July 20, 2023 - 11 a.m. - 1 p.m., (five days from today) we should hear more on the dialogue between the Thunder ownership/City representatives on the new downtown arena development.

State of the City Address: hhttps://www.okcchamber.com/index.php?src=sba&srctype=geteventdetails&datasource=geteventdetails&cale_id=2971&utm_source=Point&utm_medium=Online&utm_campaign=JulPoint23&utm_content=StateCity7_6_23ttp://

Following a full year ago (SCA) - Thursday, July 14) what updates are you expecting to hear from our mayor...

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^ ^ ^

Lucky number three (3) days til the State of the City Address. Provided a link above if tickets to this event are still available.

Best of luck City of Oklahoma City and OKCTalk.com posters.

.

Are they revealing renderings? Or just the general price, plan, etc

Are they revealing renderings? Or just the general price, plan, etc

Price and plans. No budget yet to base renderings off of.

Price and plans. No budget yet to base renderings off of.

What is the guess on the City's share of the costs? Based on the way Holt has been acting around town, I'm betting they will ask the City for 80% or more.

What is the guess on the City's share of the costs? Based on the way Holt has been acting around town, I'm betting they will ask the City for 80% or more.

That seems about right. The owners don't seem the kind to build an arena for civic love. They will take whatever handout the city gives them, and ask for as much as possible (wouldn't surprise me if they asked for a fully-funded arena). But that would likely have been talked down to 75% to 80%.

There's only one billionaire in the Thunder ownership group (Tulsa businessman, George Kaiser and one truly 3-figure multimillionaire Clay Bennett. The remaining members of the ownership are 2 and 1 figure millionaires.

Aubrey McClendon an original Professional Basketball Club LLC ownership member to purchase the NBA Supersonics in 2006 was estimated to have a net worth of $500 million at the time of his death.

Personally just don't see the ownership being a contributor to a new state-of-the-art NBA spec arena, let's see the vision for a new venue.

There's only one billionaire in the Thunder ownership group (Tulsa businessman, George Kaiser and one truly 3-figure multimillionaire Clay Bennett. The remaining members of the ownership are 2 and 1 figure millionaires.

Aubrey McClendon an original Professional Basketball Club LLC ownership member to purchase the NBA Supersonics in 2006 was estimated to have a net worth of $500 million at the time of his death.

Personally just don't see the ownership being a contributor to a new state-of-the-art NBA spec arena, let's see the vision for a new venue.

lol this is not remotely true ..

the thunder very likely have more then 1 billionaire in the ownerships group ..

and they have at least 7 that are "hundred" millionaires ... in net worth ..

lol this is not remotely true ..

the thunder very likely have more then 1 billionaire in the ownerships group ..

and they have at least 7 that are "hundred" millionaires ... in net worth ..

No...? lol. They have 1 billionaire, like Laramie said, who probably couldn't care less if a new arena is built in okc. If this doesn't pass, the team goes too.

No...? lol. They have 1 billionaire, like Laramie said, who probably couldn't care less if a new arena is built in okc. If this doesn't pass, the team goes too.

as I said they almost for sure have more then one billionaire .. ( my guess is that they have closer to 4 then 1 )

as I said they almost for sure have more then one billionaire .. ( my guess is that they have closer to 4 then 1 )

Name them.

as I said they almost for sure have more then one billionaire .. ( my guess is that they have closer to 4 then 1 )

Here's the ownership group. Which ones outside of Kaiser have Billion+????

https://www.nba.com/thunder/ownership

No...? lol. They have 1 billionaire, like Laramie said, who probably couldn't care less if a new arena is built in okc. If this doesn't pass, the team goes too.

" Your millions or the team".

A reminder the State of the City address is Thursday 7/20 at 11:30 AM.

All indications are that Holt will announce the general plans for the new arena:


On the Cox/Prairie Surf site
Approx $1 billion
Public vote in January


I would expect him to leave things relatively vague, then there will be details released in the early fall as they drive toward the January vote.

What is the guess on the City's share of the costs? Based on the way Holt has been acting around town, I'm betting they will ask the City for 80% or more.

Anything north of, say, 33% should encourage the city to walk away from the deal

Anything north of, say, 33% should encourage the city to walk away from the deal

Not a chance, unfortunately. I think we are looking at 75% or higher being city-funded. Which I don't care about, considering an arena is one of the biggest, and highest revenue-generating assets a city has. If this arena is built to top-notch standards, bigger concerts will come in, and the city gets the revenue, not some greedy billionaires. That's how I justify a new arena.

Not saying I am perfect in my rationale, but I can make an argument for it.

Jeff Records is worth a lot of money, probably 2nd most in group. Midfirst Bank is privately owned, so hard to know for sure.

Anything north of, say, 33% should encourage the city to walk away from the deal

LOL no.

I think they are all worth at least $500 million. Low profile, big money types.

Here's my question---The city owns the arena and AEG (or somesuch) manages it. How are the team owners getting rich and cheating the citizenry?

I think they are all worth at least $500 million. Low profile, big money types.

Here's my question---The city owns the arena and AEG (or somesuch) manages it. How are the team owners getting rich and cheating the citizenry?

By the team's value going up. The team and owners having to spend less means their value is higher.

And I'm sure they get a portion of the revenues on Thunder nights.

Here are the 10 richest in Oklahoma (Posted on March 25, 2023, MONEY INC https://moneyinc.com/richest-people-oklahoma/

Clayton I. Bennett who is among the Thunder ownership group isn't listed--although reports say his net worth is $400 million. Tom Ward - $273 million was listed as #10.

Wouldn't expect this ownership group to contribute much if any toward a new NBA spec arena. OKC will be pressing for a long-term commitment if a $500 million or more arena (comparable to Milwaukee's Fiserv Forum arena $524 million) is built on the PSM site.


Clayton I. Bennett, Chairman, Oklahoma City Thunder Chairman, Dorchester Capital - $400 million net worth.
George B. Kaiser, President, GBK CorporationChairman, BOK Financial - $13.2 Billion net worth
G. Jeffrey Records, Jr., Chairman and CEO,MidFirst Bank $7.2 million house in Los Angeles. Net worth N/A
William M. Cameron, Chairman and CEO,American Fidelity Assurance Company. Net worth $9 million
Robert E. Howard II, Chairman, Howard Investments. Net worth $6 million
Jay Scaramucci, President, Balon Corporation. Net worth N/A
Everett R. Dobson, Managing Partner,Dobson Partnerships. Net worth $5 million

Taken from various sources--you know as well as anyone why this information isn't reported with any amount of frequency.

Here are the 10 richest in Oklahoma (Posted on March 25, 2023, MONEY INC https://moneyinc.com/richest-people-oklahoma/

Clayton I. Bennett who is among the Thunder ownership group isn't listed--although reports say his net worth is $400 million. Tom Ward - $273 million was listed as #10.

Wouldn't expect this ownership group to contribute much if any toward a new NBA spec arena. OKC will be pressing for a long-term commitment if a $500 million or more arena (comparable to Milwaukee's Fiserv Forum arena $524 million) is built on the PSM site.


Clayton I. Bennett, Chairman, Oklahoma City Thunder Chairman, Dorchester Capital - $400 million net worth.
George B. Kaiser, President, GBK CorporationChairman, BOK Financial - $13.2 Billion net worth
G. Jeffrey Records, Jr., Chairman and CEO,MidFirst Bank $7.2 million house in Los Angeles. Net worth N/A
William M. Cameron, Chairman and CEO,American Fidelity Assurance Company. Net worth $9 million
Robert E. Howard II, Chairman, Howard Investments. Net worth $6 million
Jay Scaramucci, President, Balon Corporation. Net worth N/A
Everett R. Dobson, Managing Partner,Dobson Partnerships. Net worth $5 million

Taken from various sources--you know as well as anyone why this information isn't reported with any amount of frequency.

lol all of the above equity in the thunder is worth over 100 million ... .. so your list is trash to start with ..

Cameron, Records and Howard are all much closer to 1 Billion then 10 million .
Howard's real estate holdings alone are well over 100 million

lol all of the above equity in the thunder is worth over 100 million ... .. so your list is trash to start with ..

Cameron, Records and Howard are all much closer to 1 Billion then 10 million .
Howard's real estate holdings alone are well over 100 million

This @ 100%. I wonder what the line of credit is for the Thunder, Inc.

I think the city's share of the arena costs will be around 90%, but there will be an associated investment in public infrastructure (likely transit) that will be used to package the deal together and make it more attractive.

I think the city's share of the arena costs will be around 90%, but there will be an associated investment in public infrastructure (likely transit) that will be used to package the deal together and make it more attractive.

OKC Citizens funded 100% of Ford Center/Paycom Center when it was built and the city owns 100% of the facility. Correct?

In the case of a percentage share on a new arena between ownership and citizens of the City, who owns the arena?

The City of Arlington, Texas helped finance about a third of the Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, but they are listed as the primary owner.

lol all of the above equity in the thunder is worth over 100 million ... .. so your list is trash to start with ..

Cameron, Records and Howard are all much closer to 1 Billion then 10 million .
Howard's real estate holdings alone are well over 100 million

You said there are multiple billionaires [“closer to 4 then (sic) 1”]. Please name them and cite your source. I’m genuinely interested in this, and everything I see when I search is much closer to Laramie’s estimation than yours. Can you name the specific billionaires and tell us where you got the information to back it up? Or are you just making it up based on your gut?

all of the above equity in the thunder is worth over 100 million

Yeah, I'm not sure if personal net worth of individual owners is even relevant to how much capital the group could finance to participate in the construction of a new arena.

At this point, the team is valued at around 5 times what they paid for it. And I'm pretty sure we don't know what the splits are anyway, so each individual's personal net worth doesn't in any way equate to what the Thunder can contribute to financing a new arena as a group.

I guess it's possible, but I highly doubt any financing the group uses to participate in the construction of a new arena would be secured with anything other than Thunder basketball operations. Whether they're billionaires or millionaires, they didn't get to where they are now by doing that,

Not a chance, unfortunately. I think we are looking at 75% or higher being city-funded. Which I don't care about, considering an arena is one of the biggest, and highest revenue-generating assets a city has. If this arena is built to top-notch standards, bigger concerts will come in, and the city gets the revenue, not some greedy billionaires. That's how I justify a new arena.

Not saying I am perfect in my rationale, but I can make an argument for it.

Where can I see the data that says this is one of the highest revenue generating assets the city has?

Where can I see the data that says this is one of the highest revenue generating assets the city has?

In the land without fair weather sports fans.