This made me laugh. OKC seems to hold many who hate their own city, which is really sad and quite unreasonable, and make up falsehood like this to influence how others see the city. I hear disinformation and complaints about OKC at work far too frequently. Obviously we can't expect everyone to be fully knowledgeable of city developments but the straight up lies are sad to me.

Not limited to OKC unfortunately.

This is also why I love OKCTalk. I'm encouraged by this community who is not only for OKC, but passionate enough to stay in the loop of what's truly going on. What is discussed here is almost opposite of what I hear at the office lol.

I digress... ready to see this arena get built!

Not limited to OKC unfortunately.

Grass is always greener, if you will.

Gotta be a well known fact that OKC Mayor has more power than Richard Daly ever dreamed of back in Chicago.

I don't think it is just people that "hate their city", but that people are just poo pooing the idea of change. I know some older folks that think OKC is growing too fast and large and for them it scares them (as they don't want it to become Dallas or Los Angeles). OKC will never be either of those, I know, but the fear is real for them (more people, more crime, higher prices, etc). Take the argument of one OKC Talk poster that always complains that the city of Edmond is almost in their yard and they can't ride their horse on the street because of the cars, for them it is a real issue. Others just don't want to be let down (example- those that complain about UTC in Norman). Disinformation is every where unfortunately in this day and age, and speeds through the conversation quicker through everyone online. I take the position of being excited and proud, knowing that it might change or not happen like you want it, but the growth is something that love and never thought possible for our old dusty city.

I take the position of being excited and proud, knowing that it might change or not happen like you want it, but the growth is something that love and never thought possible for our old dusty city.

Same. Happy OKC is growing, changing, evolving. I have been to plenty of metros that are either slowly losing population or essentially stagnant in growth and it shows. City owned facilities, parks, roads, and infrastructure are just "tired." OKC has done a lot to improve this, especially in the core the last few years.

The OKC Chamber released their latest campaign video about a month ago promoting the City, and the energy behind it about the power of citizens voting for growth and change, all about improving quality of life in OKC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3v2BvOLQg

I deleted a bunch of increasingly angry and personal posts. Apologies that some good/rational posts were lost in the wash.


If you bring up politics or just want to complain, your posting privileges are going to get revoked.

Same. Happy OKC is growing, changing, evolving. I have been to plenty of metros that are either slowly losing population or essentially stagnant in growth and it shows. City owned facilities, parks, roads, and infrastructure are just "tired." OKC has done a lot to improve this, especially in the core the last few years.

The OKC Chamber released their latest campaign video about a month ago promoting the City, and the energy behind it about the power of citizens voting for growth and change, all about improving quality of life in OKC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3v2BvOLQg

Great video!

I deleted a bunch of increasingly angry and personal posts. Apologies that some good/rational posts were lost in the wash.


If you bring up politics or just want to complain, your posting privileges are going to get revoked.

Thank you, Pete!

Can't wait until we see renderings for this thing, Looking at how new NBA arenas are being constructed, this thing will look amazing at the CCC site IMO if they do decide to construct it there.
Imagine a beautiful new arena placed on location of the unfortunately poorly aged gargantuan CCC. It takes up so much space that could be dressed up nicely on the exterior which would increase the space that heavy foot traffic would flow through on a night out Downtown. If the then former site of the Paycom Center and the surface lots between MBG and Scissortail Park are blended nicely, it would make Downtown feel so much larger.

I'm super excited to see these projects come to fruition. Seeing all of this development pop off simultaneously is such a good look for the City on a national level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCe5dqccQM

They state "only the CCC and the parking lots nearby are under consideration for the new arena" which, adding the comment about them not owning the lots and the hefty price tag associated with the acquisition of the land just tells me that its going to the CCC site. The owners wanted $100 million for the site back when attempting to construct the convention center, there is no way they would ask for a lower price now.

They state "only the CCC and the parking lots nearby are under consideration for the new arena" which, adding the comment about them not owning the lots and the hefty price tag associated with the acquisition of the land just tells me that its going to the CCC site. The owners wanted $100 million for the site back when attempting to construct the convention center, there is no way they would ask for a lower price now.

I'd much prefer the cox center site. I know something needs to be done with the parking lot but ideally the myriad gardens and scissortail park won't be separated by an arena

Given the tight timeline, we should start to see movement on this soon.

I believe the first thing would be to formally announce the Cox Center as the location. There is almost certainly going to be a buyout of Prairie Surf.

I'm sure they are already working on conceptual plans behind the scenes, especially now that the vote has been approved and they do have MAPS 4 money which has been funneled away from what were to be more improvements to Paycom.

Is there any significance to the survey being done by the Brownfield program?

Is there any significance to the survey being done by the Brownfield program?

I'd assume just a formality. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's

Is there any significance to the survey being done by the Brownfield program?

I'm sure that is just part of the due diligence required for any public project.

The City can't just settle on one site... They have to look at options and then explain why a particular site was chosen. It's much like the competitive bidding process or when the City issues an RFP when a developer approaches them about buying a public site.


I bet it will go something like this: "We looked at the neighboring parking lots as an option, but due to the huge purchase expense and possible Brownfields cleanup, we have concluded the City-owned Cox Center site is the optimal choice for this tax-funded project."


Also, keep in mind, the City and ODOT owns a good chunk of those parking lot parcels. The southern part used to be ROW for the old I-40. And they would also have to give their approval and transfer ownership for any of the areas now devoted to streets. So no matter what happens there, the City would have to be heavily involved because almost certainly those parcels would be consolidated before development.

What REHCO (mainly Bob Howard but also Hall Capital has an interest) owns is shown below in red.

There is a private party that owns the one remaining commercial lot, but all that frontage along the OKC Boulevard is owned by the City or State.

When there were negotiations over this site for the convention center, the City was going to close all those internal streets and incorporate them into the larger site. If/when this site is developed, the same thing would probably happen, so you can see about half of this land is owned by a government body, and the City controls what happens there.

I'm also going to post this on the REHCO Land (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45822) thread.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco020224a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco092721a.jpg

I'm sure that is just part of the due diligence required for any public project.

The City can't just settle on one site... They have to look at options and then explain why a particular site was chosen. It's much like the competitive bidding process or when the City issues an RFP when a developer approaches them about buying a public site.


I bet it will go something like this: "We looked at the neighboring parking lots as an option, but due to the huge purchase expense and possible Brownfields cleanup, we have concluded the City-owned Cox Center site is the optimal choice for this tax-funded project."


Also, keep in mind, the City and ODOT owns a good chunk of those parking lot parcels. The southern part used to be ROW for the old I-40. And they would also have to give their approval and transfer ownership for any of the areas now devoted to streets. So no matter what happens there, the City would have to be heavily involved because almost certainly those parcels would be consolidated before development.

I'm curious of the cost of tearing down the cox vs the cost of buying a lot for $100MM that is essentially ready to go

What REHCO (mainly Bob Howard but also Hall Capital has an interest) owns is shown below in red.

There is one private owner that owns the one remaining commercial lot, but all that frontage along the OKC Boulevard is owned by the City or State.

When there were negotiations over this site for the convention center, the City was going to close all those internal streets and incorporate them into the larger site. If/when this site is developed, the same thing would probably happen, so you can see about half of this land is owned by a government body, and the City controls what happens there.

I'm also going to post this on the REHCO Land (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45822) thread.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco020224a.jpg

Honestly, this site would be ideal for the towers being discussed in bricktown. Having residential so close to the park would be huge

I'm curious of the cost of tearing down the cox vs the cost of buying a lot for $100MM that is essentially ready to go

$100MM was about ten years ago and long before Scissortail Park and the convention center were built.

I think it's safe to say that demolition on the Cox site would be a tiny fraction of that amount.

Honestly, this site would be ideal for the towers being discussed in bricktown. Having residential so close to the park would be huge

Residential and hotels seem to be the areas of most demand in the core.

Office space is way overbuilt and it will probably continue that way for quite some time, and you can only have so many restaurants which are usually just a small part of a larger development.

Honestly, this site would be ideal for the towers being discussed in bricktown. Having residential so close to the park would be huge

Is it greedy to want both?

Is it greedy to want both?

We could potentially see new development happening to the East, South East, South, and West of the Myriad Gardens. May take time though.

It needs to go on the PSM site. The chance to be able to tap into the Santa Fe [future] Hub for whatever form of commuter rail down the tracks. There will be something very special about having the ability to take a train from Edmond or Norman and being dropped off across the street from the arena.

When they demolish the Prarie Surf Studios; I wonder if the Chinese tunnels will be exposed again. Back when the Myriad was built they blocked off the tunnel entrance (north side of the underground parking garage). When a professor from OU visited them he only got to see a small portion before they sealed them off so exploration didn't impede the construction.

18596
18597
18598

What REHCO (mainly Bob Howard but also Hall Capital has an interest) owns is shown below in red.

There is a private party that owns the one remaining commercial lot, but all that frontage along the OKC Boulevard is owned by the City or State.

When there were negotiations over this site for the convention center, the City was going to close all those internal streets and incorporate them into the larger site. If/when this site is developed, the same thing would probably happen, so you can see about half of this land is owned by a government body, and the City controls what happens there.

I'm also going to post this on the REHCO Land (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=45822) thread.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco020224a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco092721a.jpg

I just did the calculations and REHCO owns 8.6 acres.

If you incorporate the City/State-owned property and close the internal streets (not including Hudson, of course) that would be a total of 18.3 acres.

So the government owns and the City controls more than half of that site.

I wonder when they demolish the Prarie Surf Studios the Chinese tunnels will be exposed again. Back when the Myriad was built they blocked off the tunnel entrance (north side of the underground parking garage). When a professor from OU visited them he only got to see a small portion before they sealed them off so exploration didn't impede the construction.

18596

That would be so cool expose. Think of the tourist attraction it could bring too lol

Same. Happy OKC is growing, changing, evolving. I have been to plenty of metros that are either slowly losing population or essentially stagnant in growth and it shows.

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.



https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/60d58c2c260000132951f358.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale

You moved back in 2008. Did that have anything to do with the NBA Supersonics' relocation to OKC?

I'm all for progress, growth, and change. As you indicated being stagnant isn't good. However, I moved back to OKC from LA because it was smaller and didn't have all the issues of a larger city. Since I've been back I've noticed traffic is getting worse. The once beautiful open land is now filled with a shopping center, fast food, emergency clinic, and new housing developments. I've been back since 2008 to a neighborhood called Rivendale the entrance is just north of SW 134th and May. That whole area felt rural and now that feeling is gone.

Choctaw and Guthrie are still peaceful, I believe, and not too far from OKC.

Prairie Surf Studio lost its lease about the time the new arena vote was passed, leaving some to assume that PSS would be moved with minimal disruption to their operations. Are we seeing the end of PSS, or are they looking for another location?

Prairie Surf Studio lost its lease about the time the new arena vote was passed, leaving some to assume that PSS would be moved with minimal disruption to their operations. Are we seeing the end of PSS, or are they looking for another location?

They were just notified their lease would not be renewed; i.e. the first option was unilaterally cancelled by the City and according to their agreement, the City had to give them ample notice.

It runs through the end of 2025 (was a five-year base term) and for the new arena to open before the end of the decade, they would almost certainly have to leave before that.

They were just notified their lease would not be renewed; i.e. the first option was unilaterally cancelled by the City and according to their agreement, the City had to give them ample notice.

It runs through the end of 2025 (was a five-year base term) and for the new arena to open before the end of the decade, they would almost certainly have to leave before that.

if the city didn't notify before jan 1 .. prairie would have the sole right to extend to the end of 2026 ..

I just did the calculations and REHCO owns 8.6 acres.

If you incorporate the City/State-owned property and close the internal streets (not including Hudson, of course) that would be a total of 18.3 acres.

So the government owns and the City controls more than half of that site.

keep in mind that if this is a normal "not platted" area the property owner generally owns to the center of the road ..


"Title 69 2001 Sec. 1202 Highways -- Right of adjoining owner (says) an owner of land bounded by a road or street is presumed to own to the center of the way, but the contrary may be shown.


"In essence, yes, most property owners own to the section line, which may or may not be the center line of the pavement. However, previous land transactions, the specifics of a location, actions taken by a municipality or county, etc. may all have effects on this issue, which is why the statute stipulates that the contrary may be shown.

keep in mind that if this is a normal "not platted" area the property owner generally owns to the center of the road ..

True, but the City has complete control of closing those roads and thus making that property available for development.


I remember when things got heated during the convention center negotiations and the City started eminent domain proceedings before it became clear the independent appraisers appointed by the court were going to come back with a figure close to what REHCO was demanding, so the City quickly dropped its legal action before the deal became binding.

Someone with OCURA or the City was quoted as saying something to the effect they would be less likely to grant REHCO street closures in the future due to the acrimony that was involved. It was silly and petulant at the time and I'm sure that's all changed now.

True, but the City has complete control of closing those roads and thus making that property available for development.


I remember when things got heated during the convention center negotiations and the City started eminent domain proceedings before it became clear the independent appraisers appointed by the court were going to come back with a figure close to what REHCO was demanding, so the City quickly dropped its legal action before the deal became binding.

Someone with OCURA or the City was quoted as saying something to the effect they would be less likely to grant REHCO street closures in the future due to the acrimony that was involved. It was silly and petulant at the time and I'm sure that's all changed now.

100% ..

It should be pointed out here that the portion of REHCO being considered for the arena site is/was only the eastern 2/3 and does not include the western 1/3.

Regarding expense, folks here are failing to consider that using REHCO would mostly involve a land swap rather than a cash payment. This solution was originally favored by some due in large part to the fact that it would most likely trim as much as a year off of the construction schedule, owing to not requiring them to wait on the demo (and the lease) associated with the Cox/Prairie Surf site. See my posts upthread alluding to this.

What low-information online speculation also fails to consider is that demo of the PSM site also requires relocating mechanicals such as HVAC, which run through the basement of PSM and power Paycom, which must continue to run while the new arena is being constructed. This relocation must be done BEFORE PSM demolition commences; this extends the overall timeline. The ice plant will need to be removed from Paycom and replaced with the system currently in the basement of PSM. All of this takes time (and money).

There must also be a relocation of ASM offices from PSM to Paycom.

A land swap including PSM in favor of REHCO would also still require demo of the PSM site. REHCO's owners would never accept PSM with an obsolete building housing a tenant requiring lease subsidy. The building is very expensive to maintain, and there would be no justifiable revenue source. Any sane developer would require a like site, which in this case would mean scraped, leveled and remediated. No matter what the City will be required to spend $10M+ to demo PSM and prepare the site.

Of course the REHCO site would require significant excavation if the arena were to be located there, as the arena will most likely be partially sunken, like Paycom (and most other modern arenas). Even excavation is more expensive than most folks understand.

All of that said, every reliable indication I've seen is that PSM has again become the favored location. This includes statements made by the City Manager on a panel yesterday hosted by Downtown OKC Partnership for the benefit of downtown stakeholders. He by no means made any type of announcement, but did stress the advantages of the site owing to the City's ownership.

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/60d58c2c260000132951f358.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_nou pscale

You moved back in 2008. Did that have anything to do with the NBA Supersonics' relocation to OKC?



Probably not

It needs to go on the PSM site. The chance to be able to tap into the Santa Fe [future] Hub for whatever form of commuter rail down the tracks. There will be something very special about having the ability to take a train from Edmond or Norman and being dropped off across the street from the arena.

Agreed. Hopefully they can circle back on that tunnel project in Bricktown that they scrapped a few years ago.

Also, forgot to mention relative to the ever-present renderings discussion: the City first has to select and hire a project consultant to advise and to manage the process on its behalf (and independent from the Thunder's consultant). This process by itself takes time. Official site selection must also take place. No renderings are forthcoming at the present time, despite how anxious folks on the Internet are to see them. To put it into NBA terms: trust the process.

Agreed. Hopefully they can circle back on that tunnel project in Bricktown that they scrapped a few years ago.

I trust that it had something to do with the canal? Forgive me, my mind is a bit hazy with the details and there's a lot of exciting things popping up like daises.

I trust that it had something to do with the canal? Forgive me, my mind is a bit hazy with the details and there's a lot of exciting things popping up like daises.

Maybe so, but I thought it also had to do with the cost being way more than they thought it would.

I thought it was more the railroad being ***** (insert your own word) and not cooperating.

^^^^^^^^^^
The railroad - which controls the ROW - insisted that the only way they’d allow construction is if the contractor paid for the track to be monitored constantly and for all equipment and personnel to be fully removed from the dig in advance of every passing train. It drove the estimated cost of the project to about triple the budget.

I’m confused. They did create another tunnel already. Was there something else they were going to do?

I’m confused. They did create another tunnel already. Was there something else they were going to do?

Yes, they were going to extend the current tunnel that leads to the far east tracks and take it into Bricktown, with an entrance/exit near the far northwest fountain.

They started the work but the RR wouldn't cooperate (they never do and are famously impossible to deal with) so the remainder of the federal funds were used to redo the Bricktown plaza on the south side of the canal (2nd to last photo below) across from where this was planned.

The last image shows the current passenger tunnel that was to be extended.


As far as I know, this tunnel connection to Bricktown is dead for the foreseeable future. Maybe it can be resurrected as part of the new arena plan.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tunnel012419a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519b.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bricktown110219a.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe020324a.jpg

Yes, they were going to extend the current tunnel that leads to the far east tracks and take it into Bricktown, with an entrance/exit near the far northwest fountain.

They started the work but the RR wouldn't cooperate (they never do and are famously impossible to deal with) so the remainder of the federal funds were used to redo the Bricktown plaza on the south side of the canal (2nd to last photo below) across from where this was planned.

The last image shows the current passenger tunnel that was to be extended.


As far as I know, this tunnel connection to Bricktown is dead for the foreseeable future. Maybe it can be resurrected as part of the new arena plan.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tunnel012419a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bttunnel012519b.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bricktown110219a.jpg

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/santafe020324a.jpg

Interesting. I wonder why the new tunnel south of there was not an issue to work with them on

Maybe that this one is directly under an Amtrak stop?

The issue isn’t with Amtrak - which leases the track on which it operates AND the depot - but with BNSF, which owns the track.

The issue isn’t with Amtrak - which leases the track on which it operates AND the depot - but with BNSF, which owns the track.

^^
Of course .....

Was just in a conversation with someone who went on a tour inside of Prairie Surf Media. The way they were marketing the place for new productions made it sound like it will be there for a long time. Not sure if this means anything at all, but it seems the city really likes the amount of money that Prairie Surf is bringing in to the downtown area.

Was just in a conversation with someone who went on a tour inside of Prairie Surf Media. The way they were marketing the place for new productions made it sound like it will be there for a long time. Not sure if this means anything at all, but it seems the city really likes the amount of money that Prairie Surf is bringing in to the downtown area.

At the very latest, they have to be out when their base lease ends Dec 31, 2025. The City has already given them formal notice.

PSM is very good at PR and marketing.

They have been looking around for a new spot but I don't think they have anything yet. I know they've been talking to Strawberry Fields but I'm sure they realize that is now a longshot, especially to be ready by January of 2026, which is less than two years now.

Yeah, there is not a scenario where Cox doesn't get demolished. Either the Arena goes there or the city demolishes it for the new land owners as part of a land swap deal.

Lots of surveyors around the Cox Center today. Not sure what they are doing, but they are there.

Choctaw and Guthrie are still peaceful, I believe, and not too far from OKC. Yeah we are considering out towards Choctaw. We found a nice 275-acre parcel we're thinking of putting an offer on.

Good article

Mussatto: Why Oklahoma City, despite new arena plan, is far from hosting NBA All-Star Game

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2024/02/21/oklahoma-city-nba-all-star-game-future-mayor-david-holt-okc-thunder/72673926007/

There are 159 pages on this thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but talking about Arena design.. I LOVE the Tennessee Titians new Stadium design. I think the COX site is big enough to do something like this, but obviously it would need to be smaller since this is a Football Stadium rendering, but I LOVE the design!


https://youtu.be/XfAcqUfQRyk?si=wD2VPmteHVUWsW3J&t=34

There are 159 pages on this thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but talking about Arena design.. I LOVE the Tennessee Titians new Stadium design. I think the COX site is big enough to do something like this, but obviously it would need to be smaller since this is a Football Stadium rendering, but I LOVE the design!


https://youtu.be/XfAcqUfQRyk?si=wD2VPmteHVUWsW3J&t=34

Looks really cool. Kansas City also recently released their renderings for their downtown ballpark.

Looks really cool. Kansas City also recently released their renderings for their downtown ballpark.

Kaufmann Stadium opened 50 years ago, while I am a fan of how the Truman Sports Complex has worked over the years, the setup has certainly favored the Chiefs and Arrowhead, versus a baseball friendly venue. Both stadiums in KC allow the common fan a great experience.

Nissan Stadium on the other hand is the same age almost as Ford Center/Paycom Center, and was built specifically when the Oilers/Titans moved to Nashville from Houston. It's surprising that the lifespan of stadiums is getting shorter, yet more elaborate with each build. Nissan Stadium will be 28 years old when it gets demolished. The Georgia Dome and Ballpark in Arlington also had very short lifespans as arenas/stadiums. (Yes, I know the Ballpark in Arlington is still standing, but it's a very odd configuration for sporting events, and not a major league tenant)

I completely understand that Paycom Center was built bare bones to get it built on budget and we have adapted it as much as possible to serve the Thunder. However, hope the new arena can last 30+ years given the significant investment by citizens of the City.