Ok what is the REHCO SITE everyone keeps talking about? Does the city own the current Paycom site too. Think of all the possibilities for that site if the new arena is next door. Have something like Texas Live in Arlington.

Yes, the City owns both the Cox and Paycom site.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco121323b.jpg

We've seen the trend of newer and renovated NBA arenas seating reduced to 17,800 - 18,300.

Oklahoma City should take note of these trends, in the event they go back and forth. Let's build an arena with a maximum seating capacity of 20,000. A triple decker with the top balcony seating 1,500 which can be closed off with a middle Mezzanine of 1,500 seats leaving the lower level with 17,000 seats.

The configuration with the top balcony closed off allows for 18,500 for NBA basketball which could be easily expanded to back to 20,000 by opening the top 1,500 seat balcony.

A configuration for regulation ice hockey would require losing 800 lower level seats, the arena could have a maximum seating capacity of 19,200 which could be further reduced by 1,500 seat with a closed off top balcony resulting in a 17,700 configuration.

We want an arena capable of accommodating NBA, concerts, rodeo and NHL.


NBA seating choices 20,000 - 18,500
NHL seating choices 17,700

Make the arena multipurpose and affordable for everyone and built to a configuration to handle multiple types of events from
NBA, G-League basketball, concerts, rodeo and NHL-AHL-ECHL hockey.

Bring back the FFA 10k attendee convention we lost to Tulsa. Go after the NFR we lost to Las Vegas in 1985--the calf roping events could be held in Guthrie's Lazy E arena.
.

This isn't going to happen.

I just want a way for a family with an average median income of $59,214 per year to be able to afford a ticket in a very loud arena.

As I type this, there is probably 100 tickets available for $11 through the Thunder site for Mondays game against Memphis.

As I type this, there is probably 100 tickets available for $11 through the Thunder site for Mondays game against Memphis.

$3 https://seatgeek.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-tickets/12-18-2023-oklahoma-city-oklahoma-paycom-center-2/nba/6121575

here are my unscientific yet probably realistic due to timeline predictions:

1) city passes resolution not to renew PSM lease

2) city announces site selection of Cox Center site by March 2024

3) city works with PSM to exit the Cox Center, effective end of 2024

4) late 2024, city starts relocating utilities to keep Paycom operational during construction

5) during 2024-2025, city selects architect, develops arena plans for the Cox site

6) early 2025-2026, demolition of Cox site

7) end 2026-2028, construction of new arena and Thunder portions of the Cox site

8) early-mid 2029, fixtures installed, testing,

9) Sept 2029 soft opening - Public debut

9) Oct 2029, arena officially opens with the Thunder 2029 Preseason and 2029-20 NBA Season

10) 2030 city sells parcels of Cox site not used for Arena, District, for highrise development

Not trying to be insensitive but statements like these just make me cringe. With very little effort, you can get into the games for REALLY cheap if you look at the secondary market before each game.

For a family of 4 on that income, the $120 night out ($60 for tickets and $60 for food), while not impossible, is a splurge. An additional $30.00 might be the difference between going twice a year and once a year. And that's dead center income. Half of all households make less than that, some substantially so.

As I type this, there is probably 100 tickets available for $11 through the Thunder site for Mondays game against Memphis.

In fairness, that’s not a very fun team to watch when it doesn’t have Ja Morant.

Just has way less weapons on the floor when he’s out.

$3 https://seatgeek.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-tickets/12-18-2023-oklahoma-city-oklahoma-paycom-center-2/nba/6121575

Lolol...you pay 250% of that price that in fees.

Would it make any sense at all to delay the MAPS 4 stadium and put it where Paycom is now? Not sure if that is even possible (either from a MAPS administration perspective, or if the site is even big enough).

Why is there a desire to immediately tear down the current arena? Having a very nice area would seem to provide promoters some flexibility for events in the city during basketball season?

Why is there a desire to immediately tear down the current arena? Having a very nice area would seem to provide promoters some flexibility for events in the city during basketball season?

Because it's a real money-loser for the City.

At the Cox Center, utilities alone are $1.1 million per year on top of maintenance and repairs.

11 dollar face value doesn't work for you??

As long as it continues with the new Arena.

Why is there a desire to immediately tear down the current arena? Having a very nice area would seem to provide promoters some flexibility for events in the city during basketball season?

I would think Thunder ownership would have a problem with that considering they get money from other events, but I don't guess they'd have a say in the matter.

By the time the new arena opens, that land may be worth $50M. $30M minimum. It needs to be activated. With the Courtyard right there, would be cool to see a high-end, 30+ story Marriot brand end up on the site.

Would it make any sense at all to delay the MAPS 4 stadium and put it where Paycom is now? Not sure if that is even possible (either from a MAPS administration perspective, or if the site is even big enough).

My god this sounds incredible at first blush. I wonder if having the new Arena and the Mas 4 stadium in such proximity would be feasible. Probably not. But if it did work it would make for a helluva time when both properties had action the same day/night. Also, can you imagine the overhead pic of that area? Incredible.

Why is there a desire to immediately tear down the current arena? Having a very nice area would seem to provide promoters some flexibility for events in the city during basketball season?

These are edge cases that would rarely occur. Anything worth seeing would not want to have a show at the Paycom when there is a brand new state of the art arena across the street. A larger loading dock solve most scheduling conflicts.

In fairness, that’s not a very fun team to watch when it doesn’t have Ja Morant.

Just has way less weapons on the floor when he’s out.

LOL I see what you did here! #BANG

^

The demo and related work could run concurrently with the design and building plans, as those are going to take at least a year anyway.
Not if Prairie Surf is in the building through 2025.

Not if Prairie Surf is in the building through 2025.

Everyone seems very concerned with Prairie Surf. I thought the City gave Prairie Surf a super sweetheart deal to begin with. I also believe their work is currently light. Surely Prairie Surf and the City can simply work out some amicable departure plan that is not strictly bound by the lease agreement if it is needed, right?

Everyone seems very concerned with Prairie Surf. I thought the City gave Prairie Surf a super sweetheart deal to begin with. I also believe their work is currently light. Surely Prairie Surf and the City can simply work out some amicable departure plan that is not strictly bound by the lease agreement if it is needed, right?


I agree and an enddate to the lease is the first step.The city will let them think about it for a few months and potentially come back with a buyout offer. Either that or PS gets nothing at the end of 2025.

A lease is a binding legal document. Also, I keep seeing people talk about Prairie Surf as if it is fully dark. They are currently hosting shooting for a major feature film, the Twister sequel. They were quiet for a few months, but that was largely due to the writers and actors strikes. Who knows what they have on the books, or what business they will close between now and the end of their lease.

A City buyout would go against the arena project budget, and nobody wants that, least of all the City. Like it or not, Prairie Surf is in the driver's seat, and as of now the building largely cannot be touched until the end of 2025, two years from now. After the building is vacated the site will probably take more than a year to be ready for the new arena to begin construction. This puts a 2029 arena delivery in extreme jeopardy. This is one of the main reasons other sites are in play, which I have been alluding to for many months on this thread. A buyout is of course possible, but there is currently no plan on the table.

If they can start the tear down by March 2026 there should be no reason it can't be ready August 2029. That's 3 1/2 years. That gives you 1 1/2 years to clear the site and 2 years to build. It can be done.

A City buyout would go against the arena project budget, and nobody wants that, least of all the City.

As would land acquisition, right?

So, that just becomes part of the calculus. If the city feels the Prairie Surf location is the preferred spot, the best part is that the buyout (I assume) gets cheaper as time passes. There's no guarantee that the same is true for land acquisition, and it usually is the opposite. And, since the city gave notice to not renew beyond 12/25, as it gets closer to that date, the facility actually becomes a liability for PS in terms of signing new productions. The term now ends on 12/25, but no major production is going to sign with PS in 2025 knowing they may have to relocate before production has ended.

From an operational standpoint, Prairie Surf has to figure out where they're going within the next calendar year and probably be out by the start of 2025 if they want to attract major productions for that year.

There's a little bit of playing chicken there, but there's actually motivation for Prairie Surf to move as soon as they can to maximize the buyout to help fund their inevitable relocation. On the city's side, it's a matter of weighing that against land acquisition of another site and the value seen in the PS site vs. that other location.

A lease is a legal document, but it's one between two parties. It may seem like Prairies Surf is in the driver's seat right now, but, as time passes, the interests of those two parties comes closer together and will invert. Both of those parties actually have a lot of motivation to end the relationship earlier than the current term.

As would land acquisition, right?

….
Not if it’s obtained in a swap

I would think Thunder ownership would have a problem with that considering they get money from other events, but I don't guess they'd have a say in the matter.

By the time the new arena opens, that land may be worth $50M. $30M minimum. It needs to be activated. With the Courtyard right there, would be cool to see a high-end, 30+ story Marriot brand end up on the site.

I would be down with that, OKC doesn't even have a full-service Marriott anymore. Would love a 30+ story Marriott at that site, would be the tallest hotel in the state.

I would be down with that, OKC doesn't even have a full-service Marriott anymore. Would love a 30+ story Marriott at that site, would be the tallest hotel in the state.

High-end brands don't build here, for some reason. It took an insane TIF for Omni to open.

What I wonder is what downtown will be like when it opens and how many new high rises will be built? will the commuter rail from Norman to Edmond be running by then(if it ever gets going)?

Theres boardwalk at bricktown with 4 towers. I believe the parking lot at the ballpark will be at least 1 high rise tower if they develop that property.

Pending the location there could be some hotels that wanna build before the arena open. Who knows but i cant wait to see the city continue its renaissance

^ ^ ^

There are some projects in the mix for BT-DT Oklahoma City where the non-hotel portion has IIRC received $200 million in TIF funds - listed as three apartment towers.


Boardwalk at Bricktown 900 apartments (TIF)
Dream Hotel 220
Unscripted Hotels 174

Link: https://www.news9.com/story/64a8af6072d5bc0724e969ff/proposed-bricktown-development-would-include-highrise-apartments-hotels-restaurants

The development would include three apartment towers with 924 units combined, a 348-unit luxury hotel, several restaurants, retail and entertainment areas.

Just wonder how much of an impact the 'arena vote' could have for the confidence factor for many projects going forward.

.

My god this sounds incredible at first blush. I wonder if having the new Arena and the Mas 4 stadium in such proximity would be feasible. Probably not. But if it did work it would make for a helluva time when both properties had action the same day/night. Also, can you imagine the overhead pic of that area? Incredible.

Could we cancel the maps four area and use the funds to retro fit paycom into a multi purpose stadium?

Reminder that the City can get very flexible with its $2 billion annual budget, + TIF, + existing bonds, + street funds and on and on and on...

We already know they bury millions in shortfall at Paycom right now.

And don't forget, what started as a $253 million budget for the convention center ended up costing more than twice that amount because first we were told there had to be a hotel, then a garage and the hotel ended up needing $138 MM from other budgets and land had to be purchased for the garage, then COTPA couldn't finance the garage without selling the Sante Fe garage for well less than market value plus losing a big revenue stream because SF had been paid off for a long time. The City also completely rebuilt several streets all around the CC. The total was at least $500 MM and that doesn't include streets, utilities, lost profit from SF, and other costs.

As things sit right now, we don't know how much of an annual City supplement will be required to break even, but you can bet it will be for more than the current $2 million/year. We also don't know if the ownership group will be granted development rights on/near the arena as they were given for Thunder Alley.

Also, many millions are given to Riversport every year to cover their losses and not long after it opened and they were really struggling, the City went beyond the annual supplement to give them immediate and emergency millions for already spent 'marketing and promotions'.

Both Paycom and Riversport have received tons of future MAPS and other dollars every few years. Each time these increases are discussed, there is never a mention of what will still be needed down the road. The process repeats indefinitely and there is never any reporting against the original budget -- try that in a corporate environment.


When the big boys at the City want something done, they will move heaven and earth to shift related costs to a bunch of different categories and then claim the project came within budget, even though the budget just gets changed -- Project 180 is another significant example.

Don't forget that a huge new TIF was just created earlier this year; look how the boundary was gerrymandered:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tif040623x.jpg


So, as I've demonstrated, there is going to be at least $1.2 billion in the core budget and it will likely turn out to be more based on historical sales tax collection. Then, there will be millions more that will be directly related to the new arena but will be absorbed the City in other ways. When all is said and done, I'll bet the total of direct costs are going to be closer to $2 billion rather than $1 billion.

A lease is a binding legal document. Also, I keep seeing people talk about Prairie Surf as if it is fully dark. They are currently hosting shooting for a major feature film, the Twister sequel. They were quiet for a few months, but that was largely due to the writers and actors strikes. Who knows what they have on the books, or what business they will close between now and the end of their lease.

A City buyout would go against the arena project budget, and nobody wants that, least of all the City. Like it or not, Prairie Surf is in the driver's seat, and as of now the building largely cannot be touched until the end of 2025, two years from now. After the building is vacated the site will probably take more than a year to be ready for the new arena to begin construction. This puts a 2029 arena delivery in extreme jeopardy. This is one of the main reasons other sites are in play, which I have been alluding to for many months on this thread. A buyout is of course possible, but there is currently no plan on the table.

The plan is already in motion by first giving PS notice within the next 2 weeks their current lease will not be extended.

And as I've also mentioned, there are several ways the City could ask them to leave earlier than 2025, there would just have to be compensation involved that would be a drop in the bucket of a $1+ billion budget, especially since the underlying land is already owned.


Those involved have thought this through; why on earth would they seek specific action stopping a 1-year option starting 1/1/26 if they weren't trying to get that property even earlier so they can execute the construction plan and be ready to go in 2029, their repeated goal?

Right now, the only definitive action that has been announced is on the Cox site. Of course there are other options but it's pretty clear of the priority.

Could we cancel the maps four area and use the funds to retro fit paycom into a multi purpose stadium?
What in the world? No.

The plan is already in motion by first giving PS notice within the next 2 weeks their current lease will not be extended.

And as I've also mentioned, there are several ways the City could ask them to leave earlier than 2025, there would just have to be compensation involved that would be a drop in the bucket of a $1+ billion budget, especially since the underlying land is already owned.


Those involved have thought this through; why on earth would they seek specific action stopping a 1-year option starting 1/1/26 if they weren't trying to get that property even earlier so they can execute the construction plan and be ready to go in 2029, their repeated goal?

Right now, the only definitive action that has been announced is on the Cox site. Of course there are other options but it's pretty clear of the priority.

Pete - any idea on why the city waited? Could this have been funded like past Maps projects and thus avoid any interest cost via bonds or a loan? Just seems like a waste of $200+M towards interest costs… not sure if it was a timeline issue with MAPS 4 but what a hit when you have successful model for funding civic projects without incurring any interest fees. It’s been stated multiple times everyone knew this was a need several years prior to the upcoming lease expiration.

Pete - any idea on why the city waited? Could this have been funded like past Maps projects and thus avoid any interest cost via bonds or a loan? Just seems like a waste of $200+M towards interest costs… not sure if it was a timeline issue with MAPS 4 but what a hit when you have successful model for funding civic projects without incurring any interest fees. It’s been stated multiple times everyone knew this was a need several years prior to the upcoming lease expiration.

If you mean wait until existing MAPS commitments expire, I think it would be around 2030 before they could do anything?

Let's wait and see how this plays out with the Prairie Surf Media site and any loans.


. . . site will be costly to demolish; also prep for new arena site.
. . . site exceeds what is required for a new arena.
. . . site is large enough to have surplus parcels for private projects--funds toward arena budget.
. . . site is city owned, could save up to $250 million; unknown is what are potential offsets.
. . . site is set favorably for the streetcar routes.

We are looking forward to how this plays out.

If you mean wait until existing MAPS commitments expire, I think it would be around 2030 before they could do anything?

I think he means Maps 4 should have been a Stadium, but thinking back to that time, I am not sure it would have been successful then. But they probably could have reduced MAPS 4 collections by a year and removed the stadium/Paycom upgrades from the mix.

. . .

I think the Owners plan to sell shortly after the arena opens...2030-2035, depending on the league and the roster outlook. They probably determined this after getting gutted with the luxury tax.

Anxious to see what kind of lease agreement with the new arena is negotiated.

Pete - any idea on why the city waited? Could this have been funded like past Maps projects and thus avoid any interest cost via bonds or a loan? Just seems like a waste of $200+M towards interest costs… not sure if it was a timeline issue with MAPS 4 but what a hit when you have successful model for funding civic projects without incurring any interest fees. It’s been stated multiple times everyone knew this was a need several years prior to the upcoming lease expiration.

I'm putting together a timeline on MAPS 3 & 4, when the new arena first was mentioned by Holt or anyone else directly involved, the deal with Prairie Surf, and several other key dates.

I do know for sure the City started their deal with Prairie Surf on 1/1/21. I also know Holt talked about the need for a new 'Big League' arena at his State of the City address in 2022 at the latest.


And one more time: Can we PLEASE stop the insanity about the ownership selling/planning/or threatening to sell?? If someone can provide a hard, reputable quote or real information that's one thing, but this talk just keeps getting repeated and it's taken on a life of its own, and as far as I can tell, absolutely no one has real insight on this matter. Things keep getting posted as facts when they are anything but, and in the meantime we are trying to have an informed, rational discussion.

Same thing for the project timeline, and other key points.

There's a good chance a lot of the MAPS 4 projects would not happen if the Arena was put ahead of it. There was already some more resistance to it. Plus, separating it out to two votes allowed the city to finance a new arena. Otherwise, the city would have to wait 5 years for all that revenue to be collected.

Otherwise, the city would have to wait 5 years for all that revenue to be collected.

Untrue. The Fairgrounds Arena was/is a MAPS 4 protect, took money from MAPS 3 so they could pay for planning and architecture even though the project was not part of MAPS 3 and before MAPS 4 commenced (the Bennett Event Center was part of MAPS 3), and was placed at the front of the line for collected MAPS 4 money, and is well under construction.

For whatever reason, MAPS 4 was started in April 2020, and then only a couple of years later and long before its end in March of 2028, we are suddenly in a fire drill that could rule out the cheapest and most obvious site (Cox) due to this "We absolutely have to be open midway through 2029, and now we are going to incur tens of millions (probably hundreds of millions) to borrow the money upfront."

This is the same thing that happened with Omni, which demanded all the public money be the first into the project, and the City ended up paying $53 million in interest costs on only $85.4 million owed Omni -- and these were muni bonds with rates near historical lows. Plus tens of millions more for land and construction of a parking garage; neither one of those things was mentioned around the MAPS 4 vote then suddenly became 100% necessary for the convention center. So much so, that the cc wouldn't open unless the Ommo and garage were finished first.


Something is very strange about the sudden urgency around all this. That's why I'm going putting together a detailed timeline.

Oklahoma City Thunder practice facility is due for a $10 million renovation in 2026.

MAPS 4 Timeline: https://www.okc.gov/government/timeline

Once again, I deleted a bunch of posts.

Next comes some temp bans.


NO MORE characterizing people who disagree with your stance with pejorative terms and bringing up an election settled in a landslide.

I'm putting together a timeline on MAPS 3 & 4, when the new arena first was mentioned by Holt or anyone else directly involved, the deal with Prairie Surf, and several other key dates.

I do know for sure the City started their deal with Prairie Surf on 1/1/21. I also know Holt talked about the need for a new 'Big League' arena at his State of the City address in 2022 at the latest.

And one more time: Can we PLEASE stop the insanity about the ownership selling/planning/or threatening to sell?? If someone can provide a hard, reputable quote or real information that's one thing, but this talk just keeps getting repeated and it's taken on a life of its own, and as far as I can tell, absolutely no one has real insight on this matter. Things keep getting posted as facts when they are anything but, and in the meantime we are trying to have an informed, rational discussion.

Same thing for the project timeline, and other key points.

Looking forward to your Indepth reporting on this development and thanks again for all the insight associated with the previous MAPS projects and how it ties in with the city. I'm thrilled the city moved the coliseum ahead to address the inadequacies of the current State Fair Arena to keep those numerous horse shows and related events in OKC.

The Bennett Events Center will serve the exhibit needs of the new State Fair Coliseum as a catalyst much like a convention center at State Fair Park and the valuable horse industry that contributes to our city's economy.

MAPS and other capital campaigns historically have prioritized projects that will increase overall tax receipts once they open. That’s why fairgrounds projects have generally moved to the front of the pack, although folks who don’t fully grasp OKC’s reliance on sales and room taxes often misinterpret these moves as pet projects of influential individuals in the local private sector.

The fact of the matter is OKC’s hands are tied by the state when it comes to income generation, and anything that brings more sales taxes in turn helps generate revenue to fund the projects that follow.

I love the Thunder and everything they have done since they got here. Even before, if we count their efforts with the Hornets.

I think the current arena timeline doesn't look rushed when I think that The Thunder arrived in 2009 and we have been pushing and building downtown stuff around the team since. Yet, that is only 15 years. If the arena opens 2029, then that would be the 20th year. And the owners are anxious to enjoy it sooner rather than later. Since they have learned the hard truth that nobody lives forever.

Would it make any sense at all to delay the MAPS 4 stadium and put it where Paycom is now? Not sure if that is even possible (either from a MAPS administration perspective, or if the site is even big enough).

Bump. Just out of curiosity.

Bump. Just out of curiosity.

The site might be big enough but the opportunity for future expansion would be limited, I don't think this would be considered by the city.

The city really needs more hotel rooms closer to the convention center so between Prairie Surf, Paycom, and Rehco, OKC should really be hoping for another 600+ rooms, ideally across multiple major brands (i.e. Hyatt, Marriott, & Hilton). I suppose the Dream hotels could constitute part of that, but those major flags matter to certain travelers/convention goers who may prefer to stay with their reward programs, and they need to be within a reasonable walking distance of the Convention Center.

The site might be big enough but the opportunity for future expansion would be limited, I don't think this would be considered by the city.

The city really needs more hotel rooms closer to the convention center so between Prairie Surf, Paycom, and Rehco, OKC should really be hoping for another 600+ rooms, ideally across multiple major brands (i.e. Hyatt, Marriott, & Hilton). I suppose the Dream hotels could constitute part of that, but those major flags matter to certain travelers/convention goers who may prefer to stay with their reward programs, and they need to be within a reasonable walking distance of the Convention Center.

It is pathetic how few full-service hotels OKC has. Like, it's bad. Even Grand Rapids has a JW Marriott. OKC may never get a hotel of that level.

It is pathetic how few full-service hotels OKC has. Like, it's bad. Even Grand Rapids has a JW Marriott. OKC may never get a hotel of that level.
Omni is every bit the level of JW Marriott.

Omni is every bit the level of JW Marriott.

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.
You can disagree all you want, but Omni is a respected international luxury brand. Marriott is apparently just the brand you know.

You can disagree all you want, but Omni is a respected international luxury brand. Marriott is apparently just the brand you know.

Omni is great, but I would bet more people know the Marriott brand than Omni (if you know of something to counter that, let me know). Having 586 locations versus less than 100, with only 2 outside the US and none outside North America speaks to that.

Not bashing Omni, at all. But perception is reality. Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, those are the international and global brands. Omni has 2 outside of America. I want OKC to have a top-level Hyatt and Marriott to go with the Omni. Those brands will add more cache to OKC that it is missing.

Not sure what this has to do with the arena. But isn’t there some geographic limit to hotels in relation to the Omni?

Not sure what this has to do with the arena. But isn’t there some geographic limit to hotels in relation to the Omni?

Omni also would retain a right of first negotiation to develop any hotel on the Cox site.

Cox Convention Center, which is currently the city’s main convention center, may not be used as the main convention center one year after Omni opens. The agreement restricts redevelopment as a hotel. Omni would be offered first rights to develop a hotel on the site. Additionally, the agreement creates a “no-subsidy zone” that would restrict the city from offering subsidies for any future hotel development. First National Center, which is beginning renovations to make way for a hotel, apartments and retail/dining, was excluded from the zone.--Oklahoma Gazette, July 27, 2017

Omni is great, but I would bet more people know the Marriott brand than Omni (if you know of something to counter that, let me know). Having 586 locations versus less than 100, with only 2 outside the US and none outside North America speaks to that.

Not bashing Omni, at all. But perception is reality. Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, those are the international and global brands. Omni has 2 outside of America. I want OKC to have a top-level Hyatt and Marriott to go with the Omni. Those brands will add more cache to OKC that it is missing.

McDonald’s has more locations and better known, but it doesn’t mean their burgers better. There are lots of luxury hotel brands I doubt you are as familiar with too that are great.

Omni is a great brand for the area near the core and the new arena. The new arena commitment will draw other to the area and we should see increased demand for private development.

A lease is a binding legal document. Also, I keep seeing people talk about Prairie Surf as if it is fully dark. They are currently hosting shooting for a major feature film, the Twister sequel. They were quiet for a few months, but that was largely due to the writers and actors strikes. Who knows what they have on the books, or what business they will close between now and the end of their lease.

A City buyout would go against the arena project budget, and nobody wants that, least of all the City. Like it or not, Prairie Surf is in the driver's seat, and as of now the building largely cannot be touched until the end of 2025, two years from now. After the building is vacated the site will probably take more than a year to be ready for the new arena to begin construction. This puts a 2029 arena delivery in extreme jeopardy. This is one of the main reasons other sites are in play, which I have been alluding to for many months on this thread. A buyout is of course possible, but there is currently no plan on the table.

in the PSM lease (as i understand it) the city has every right to condemn the building and have the OCURA acquire it .. and that breaks the lease .. (during that process PSM would be owned something to be sure but they couldn't stop it from happening)

Agree to disagree, IMO. Marriott is a bigger brand by miles than Omni. Omni is a great hotel, but a top-notch Marriott brand hotel would be awesome, and do wonders for OKC.

OKC used to have a full scale Marriott, that's now an Embassy Suites. I'd also count Windam Grand at the same level as Marriott and we do have the Renaissance hotel. Remember the original plan was for the former Renaissance Hotel to be flagged as a Marriott but that fell trhough and Windam got it.

But yes, I do agree with you that it's time for a full service Marriott to return to downtown. And we finally get a full service Hyatt, and the others - downtown. I'm fairly confident they're coming.

OKC used to have a full scale Marriott, that's now an Embassy Suites. I'd also count Windam Grand at the same level as Marriott and we do have the Renaissance hotel. Remember the original plan was for the former Renaissance Hotel to be flagged as a Marriott but that fell trhough and Windam got it.

But yes, I do agree with you that it's time for a full service Marriott to return to downtown. And we finally get a full service Hyatt, and the others - downtown. I'm fairly confident they're coming.

the renaissance Waterford ... used to be a full Marriott and was rebranded in 2016

I'm putting together a timeline on MAPS 3 & 4, when the new arena first was mentioned by Holt or anyone else directly involved, the deal with Prairie Surf, and several other key dates.

I do know for sure the City started their deal with Prairie Surf on 1/1/21. I also know Holt talked about the need for a new 'Big League' arena at his State of the City address in 2022 at the latest.


And one more time: Can we PLEASE stop the insanity about the ownership selling/planning/or threatening to sell?? If someone can provide a hard, reputable quote or real information that's one thing, but this talk just keeps getting repeated and it's taken on a life of its own, and as far as I can tell, absolutely no one has real insight on this matter. Things keep getting posted as facts when they are anything but, and in the meantime we are trying to have an informed, rational discussion.

Same thing for the project timeline, and other key points.

Gabe Ikard, who married into the Thunder ownership, said as much on his radio show.

I'm glad it was passed but it wasn't an empty threat.

Gabe Ikard, who married into the Thunder ownership, said as much on his radio show.

I'm glad it was passed but it wasn't an empty threat.

Glad we didn't find out if this wasn't an empty threat. The 71% approval rating says a lot about OKC residents.

Error: Double post . . .