Is there any chance this opens in 2028?

The biggest positive of the REHCO site to me is that it would enable the southward expansion of the CBD onto the PS/Paycom sites. That's really the best place for the CBD to expand south -- the west side of the Myriad Gardens is cut off from the oldest, most urban piece of the CBD due to the Parking Garage District and Devon. Really the densest part of OKC is the Robinson/Park/Main area. Would be great to be able to push that south, closer to Scissortail. Huge superblock developments aren't conducive to pedestrian activity or city life. Dense, midrise developments on the PS/Paycom sites would connect downtown to Scissortail far better than a new arena. Especially if the street grid is restored in the area.

That said, I think I would still prefer the PS site due to its proximity to the train station and the energy it would bring to the CBD and Bricktown.

Is there any chance this opens in 2028?
None.

Just thinking out loud, but if its built on REHCO and Paycom is the land swap, and is demolished after the new arena is built, the HVAC won't ever need to be relocated, correct?
That’s a possibility, though I suspect an unlikely one, as I’m sure REHCO would not want to have to wait additional years to have a build-ready site (I know, I know, they DID wait 20 years to do anything with the old Ford site).

All of these considerations are the type of things that the City, consultants, the Thunder and others will need to pore through, negotiate and decide upon. That said there has already been a substantial amount of due diligence over the past year, so I’m sure the decision will be well-informed and that the site decision will be made relatively quickly. I’m just telling folks here that it has definitely not been made, as of yet.

I work(ed) at Devon during the development of Scissortail from start to finish, and was always sorely disappointed that they didn't directly connect it with the Myriad lot. I was indifferent about where I wanted them to build the new arena......

HOWEVER, now I'm hoping they do the REHCO site and do something like the KC T-Mobile arena (glass that would reflect back those natural areas on either side) and would incorporate as many trees as possible on the sidwalk around it..... Make it as much of an artistic structure that keeps the flow of those two beautiful park areas, as it is an arena.

I'd hate to just see that site just turned into another hotel or another BOK Park Plaza, or some 'mixed use whatever'

^^^^^^
There will 100% be adjacent mixed use; doing this development without it is not even under consideration. The desire for adjacent mixed use is a major driver of the new arena effort to begin with. It’s the emerging economic model for the NBA. Think Fiserv Deer District.

^^^^^^
There will 100% be adjacent mixed use; doing this development without it is not even under consideration. The desire for adjacent mixed use is a major driver of the new arena effort to begin with. It’s the emerging economic model for the NBA.

I am glad to see that is apparently such a sure thing since that is what turned my vote into a yes vote originally.

Hate being 'that guy', but one could the argue we should have started this prep work immediately after the new convention center was built, but I know that takes money.

The sooner we start digging trenches on Robison for new utilities, the better.

The Pei Plan cleared a ton of land for a lot of development that never happened due to a number of factors which could’ve happened here if cleared immediately. While it certainly needed to be gone eventually regardless, I still think the cox center is better than a massive empty crater in the middle of town and don’t think it would been worth risking that as the end result of the arena hadn’t been approved.

The cox center site won’t sit unimproved for long, no matter the site chosen for the arena. You can take that to the bank.

The Pei Plan cleared a ton of land for a lot of development that never happened due to a number of factors which could’ve happened here if cleared immediately. While it certainly needed to be gone eventually regardless, I still think the cox center is better than a massive empty crater in the middle of town and don’t think it would been worth risking that as the end result of the arena hadn’t been approved.

i very much disagree the cox site fully clear and ready for development would be much better then having it there like it is now

Is there any chance this opens in 2028?

From my understanding, the agreement between the Thunder and the City is to have the new arena ready by the 2029-30 season. It will take a good 2 1/2-3 years to build it. So they would need to start construction in 2026. I would say late 2028 best case. And if they are talking the old Cox site they need to get the ball rolling. Demolition and more environmental studies will take a while.

The Pei Plan cleared a ton of land for a lot of development that never happened due to a number of factors which could’ve happened here if cleared immediately. While it certainly needed to be gone eventually regardless, I still think the cox center is better than a massive empty crater in the middle of town and don’t think it would been worth risking that as the end result of the arena hadn’t been approved.

Empty crater? Are you thinking it won't be developed if made available?

And we have to remember there is an arena footprint already in Cox center, and they could use the same utilities. If their architectural engineers are smart, they would find away to design the new arena on the existing footprint and utilizing some of the same utilities..

Not sure if i can share this or not, but Steve got Mayor Holt on his chat today. A lot of unknowns, of course, but he wants to make sure OKC gets a top-tier arena, but doesn't want to rush the site selection process, either.

They said "open for the 2029" season.

Empty crater? Are you thinking it won't be developed if made available?

If cleared 3 years ago when the convention center opened, it would've sat empty for at least 3 years before any kind of decision was made (and it still hasn't been made yet). If for some reason the arena proposal hadn't been approved, that would've put even more doubt as to whether it was going to be developed in the near term (hence why the city was willing to lose money on a lease with prairie surf while trying to determine what to do with it and when) when there area several massive empty lots nearby. I just don't think tearing it down in January 2021 and leaving a massive dirt pile in the middle of downtown with no plan for an indefinite amount of time would've been a good idea, especially with all the uncertainty with urban areas that resulted from the pandemic. In hindsight, it looks like it would've been the right decision given that things rebounded fairly well (all things considered) after the pandemic, potentially having to buy prairie surf out of their lease, the arena was approved, etc but that site is too important to the future of downtown (and lets be honest, visually as well) just to doze it without a relatively firm plan in place. Keeping the building up, finding some use for it that might have brought some kind of longterm benefit to the film industry here (looks like a bust but you still never know) and not rushing anything also preserved it to potentially be used as the arena location (which feels like part of the reason they didn't rush a decision on it).

All of that to say, I think the benefits of leaving it in place for a few years while making a decision outweigh the negatives.

And we have to remember there is an arena footprint already in Cox center, and they could use the same utilities. If their architectural engineers are smart, they would find away to design the new arena on the existing footprint and utilizing some of the same utilities..

A brand new arena $1B arena complex most likely isn't going to use a decades-old utility infrastructure, they'll build new. Yes, it'll hook into a decades-old utility infrastructure at some point :), but I'd bet that inside the arena it'll be all new.

Paycom should be demolished. We already have a sparsely used hulk in Cox/Prairie Surf. We don't need another one. If we're breaking the bank I want to see the 3 blocks of Paycom/Cox/Ford lots completely redone and revitalized with stadiums and mixed/use development.

Now that's something I think we ALL can agree upon!

I would LOVE it if the arena is at the Myriad site which opened up to to the canal and the site itself has highrise urban development alongside the arena and assures the proper development of the Boardwalk at Bricktown and Dream Hotel and the boutique canal side hotel, which together jump starts demo of Paycom and vertical development of it and the REICO lands and the OGE lands while we're at it. Which altogether jump starts Strawberry Fields!!!!

This $1.1B+ arena we just approved could be a HUGE catalyst for the downtown CBD expansion in a big way.

The Pei Plan cleared a ton of land for a lot of development that never happened due to a number of factors which could’ve happened here if cleared immediately. While it certainly needed to be gone eventually regardless, I still think the cox center is better than a massive empty crater in the middle of town and don’t think it would been worth risking that as the end result of the arena hadn’t been approved.

I was thinking more along the lines of utility relocations. I guess having HVAC tap directly into the lines coming from the Cox convention center was a cost saving measure way back when Ford/Paycom arena was built. Even if not built on Cox site, its probably a good bet the new arena will use the central plant which would require a new line down Robinson anyway. That same line could feed Paycom arena in the interim.

They said "open for the 2029" season.

I couldn’t remember. I thought the LOI when it was announced in Sep said “no later than 2029, if not sooner” or something like that.

If that was actually a widespread opinion, it was pretty wishful thinking and a little delusional lol.

PhiAlpha, you would have thought they learned from the last extension vote OKC had on improvements to the DT arena. Thinking OKC voters weren't savvy enough to continue to invest in ourselves.

Our City's doubters learned a lesson on Oklahoma City's aspirations to continue that Big League city momentum. Now let's get our house in order with emphasis on 'Safety' while our 'Quality of Life' values sink in.

And to our friend Steve Lackmeyer, A $900 million arena will truly make Dallas and Kansas City jealous.

If we start vertical construction in 2027, the building has zero percent chance of opening before July 2029.

Getting to vertical construction by 2027 on the Cox site would be a challenge due to demolition and on any other site due to land acquisition and subsequent site plan development.

Detroit began April 24, 2015 and opened September 5, 2017. 2 years 5 months.

Milwaukee began June 18, 2016, and the arena received its certificate of occupancy on June 5, 2018. 2 years

Chase center SF began January 17, 2017 opened September 6, 2019 2 years 8 months.

Detroit began April 24, 2015 and opened September 5, 2017. 2 years 5 months.

Milwaukee began June 18, 2016, and the arena received its certificate of occupancy on June 5, 2018. 2 years

Chase center SF began January 17, 2017 opened September 6, 2019 2 years 8 months.

I sure hope we could get something like Chase Center in San Francisco. That's a stunning and elegant arena.

I sure hope we could get something like Chase Center in San Francisco. That's a stunning and elegant arena.

We will top Chase Center. There are plenty of areas in DT OKC, where land acquisition will not be as expensive as what it cost to build in DT San Francisco. Especially, if we build on City owned property.

OKC will have an opportunity of a lifetime to make a statement to the Association and NBA-NHL market cities who will droll over what I feel will be the 'Taj Mahal' among NBA-NHL arenas.

We will top Chase Center. There are plenty of areas in DT OKC, where land acquisition will not be as expensive as what it cost to build in DT San Francisco. Especially, if we build on City owned property.

OKC will have an opportunity of a lifetime to make a statement to the Association and NBA-NHL market cities who will droll over what I feel will be the 'Taj Mahal' among NBA-NHL arenas.

You're right, I didn't even think about that... we really do have quite the opportunity here.

Since we’re all speculating right now, could a brand new billion dollar arena + entertainment district lure an NHL relocation/expansion franchise?

The Convention Center was $293M and would likely cost between $350M and $425M today.

So we'll have roughly 2x - 3x the buying power we had for the Convention Center.

Since we’re all speculating right now, could a brand new billion dollar arena + entertainment district lure an NHL relocation/expansion franchise?

Sure, but we don't have the business support necessary for an NHL team. We'd need 3-5 more $1B revenue companies and a slew of $100M+ companies as well. It might also stretch the overall public at $1.4M.

We'd be more likely to lure a 2nd professional franchise with a new arena in 40+ years.

I wouldn't count on it, at least in the near term. I remember Holt saying in his state of the city that the arena would be built specifically for basketball with the site lines and seats. It could probably be reconfigured for Hockey but it would look funky.

Since we’re all speculating right now, could a brand new billion dollar arena + entertainment district lure an NHL relocation/expansion franchise?

Probably not. I don’t see the Thunder ownership group being too interested in competing with major league hockey. Plus, it would complicate the revenue sharing situation for concerts and other events (assuming that someone other than the PCB owns the hockey team).

I sure hope we could get something like Chase Center in San Francisco. That's a stunning and elegant arena.

Meh, looks too much like the BOK Center in Tulsa. Now if we get something like the Golden 1 Center in Sacramento or the T-Moble arena in Las Vegas, now we talking.

With a pricetag close to $1 Billion, our new arena will be one of the best in the league.

With talk of eliminating the grocery tax, will that have a profound effect on collection amounts?

With talk of eliminating the grocery tax, will that have a profound effect on collection amounts?

That will impact the amount for the state, not the City portion.

Since we’re all speculating right now, could a brand new billion dollar arena + entertainment district lure an NHL relocation/expansion franchise?

Please forgive me for making your eyes glaze over as I mansplain....

Short version is the NBA and NHL are direct competitors for the sports dollar. Same time of year, same arena, same media, same ancillary dollars.

Supposedly, the first bump in professional basketball interest was from the owners of the NHL "Original 6" (Boston Bruins, Chicago Blackhawks, Detroit Red Wings, Montreal Canadiens, New York Rangers and Toronto Maple Leafs) wanting to book more dates for the arenas they owned after the end of WWII. During that era, the wintertime sporting arena usage was hockey, ice capades, boxing, pro wrestling, maybe some rodeo and whatever else they could hustle up.

Fast forward to the sports crazed "Magic and Larry" era of the 1980s, and we have the NBA eclipsing the NHL in popularity. Where the sports calendar is year-round and televised 24/7. It looks like ESPN really does stand for "Every Shot and Pass in the Nation."

As it becomes more clearly defined and more of a true business, we now deal in overall year-round sports spend for the market.

Typing off the cuff, I would suggest this is why Vancouver failed so miserably with the NBA. An established NHL city that did not have MLB or NFL, and the overall sports dollar that looked so good was crammed into the same time of year.

https://okcfox.com/amp/news/local/city-moves-forward-with-ending-lease-agreement-with-prairie-surf-media-new-arena-location-frontrunner-emerges-okc-thunder-cox-convention-center-paycom

Meh, looks too much like the BOK Center in Tulsa. Now if we get something like the Golden 1 Center in Sacramento or the T-Moble arena in Las Vegas, now we talking.

You don't want either one . . .

Let's see your State-of-the Art, Top of the line NBA arenas with an NHL split level terrace with a side bar.

THUNDER-UP, O-K-C.

https://kfor.com/news/local/prairie-surf-studios-lease-will-not-be-extended-ends-in-2025/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=T.co

https://okcfox.com/amp/news/local/city-moves-forward-with-ending-lease-agreement-with-prairie-surf-media-new-arena-location-frontrunner-emerges-okc-thunder-cox-convention-center-paycom

That was fast...

You don't want either one . . .

Let's see your State-of-the Art, Top of the line NBA arenas with an NHL split level terrace with a side bar.

THUNDER-UP, O-K-C.

Golden 1 is legit

https://kfor.com/news/local/prairie-surf-studios-lease-will-not-be-extended-ends-in-2025/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=T.co

This was probably already planned due to the two year noticed requirement and also keeps the door open for a land swap to occur shortly after the lease expires. December 2025 is not enough time for demolition and construction unless the lease is broken early.

That said, these actions are planting the seeds in the general publics mind that the new Arena is going at the Cox side.

This was probably already planned due to the two year noticed requirement and this keeps the door open for a land swap to occur shortly after December 2025. December 2025 is not enough time for demolition and construction unless the lease is broken early.

I mean, the lease isn't "broken early". It is solely not being renewed in December 2025. So PSM is there until then.

I mean, the lease isn't "broken early". It is solely not being renewed in December 2025. So PSM is there until then.

Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. December 2025 isn't enough time to demolish and build an Arena on that site. That's why I think they are just keeping the door open to not have to pay the penalty. They know Cox site will be part of the equation 'somehow' even if it isn't the site.

That was fast...




I mean, the lease isn't "broken early". It is solely not being renewed in December 2025. So PSM is there until then.

I actually talked to pete about this earlier ..

in the Praire lease the city has to give them 2 years notice to end there lease Or PSM gets the sole option to pick up their option years one at a time

meaning that if OKC didn't tell them they were ending the lease before Jan 1 ... OKC would have to pay PSM lost revenue until the end of 2026 if they make them leave early

now they will only owe them lost revenue until the end of 2025 if they make them leave early ..

this is very smart of the city .

You don't want either one . . .

Let's see your State-of-the Art, Top of the line NBA arenas with an NHL split level terrace with a side bar.

THUNDER-UP, O-K-C.

THUNDER Dome!

Well yeah, that's what I'm saying. December 2025 isn't enough time to demolish and build an Arena on that site. That's why I think they are just keeping the door open to not have to pay the penalty. They know Cox site will be part of the equation 'somehow' even if it isn't the site.

Should be plenty of time if you start the tear down Spring 2026 until Summer 2027 than 2 years to build the arena. Joe Louis Arena in Detroit Demolition started in early 2019 and was completed by mid-2020.

Reunion Arena officially closed on June 30, 2008 Demolition was officially completed on November 17, 2009, and the site was completely cleared by the end of the year.

I would like the old cox center would be easier to tear down than an arena.

Should be plenty of time if you start the tear down Spring 2026 until Summer 2027 than 2 years to build the arena. Joe Louis Arena in Detroit Demolition started in early 2019 and was completed by mid-2020.

Reunion Arena officially closed on June 30, 2008 Demolition was officially completed on November 17, 2009, and the site was completely cleared by the end of the year.

I would like the old cox center would be easier to tear down than an arena.

I honestly don't know how long demolition would take. The Cox was both an Arena and convention center that sits in a bathtub with underground parking while you also have at least one other building(the Paycom) tapped directly into its utilities.

I actually talked to pete about this earlier ..

in the Praire lease the city has to give them 2 years notice to end there lease Or PSM gets the sole option to pick up their option years one at a time

meaning that if OKC didn't tell them they were ending the lease before Jan 1 ... OKC would have to pay PSM lost revenue until the end of 2026 if they make them leave early

now they will only owe them lost revenue until the end of 2025 if they make them leave early ..

this is very smart of the city .

Prairie Surf Studios lease will not be extended, ends in 2025 (https://kfor.com/news/local/prairie-surf-studios-lease-will-not-be-extended-ends-in-2025/)

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — Days after Oklahoma City voters overwhelmingly approved a new arena, News 4 learned the lease for Prairie Surf Studios, which ends in 2025, will not be extended.

The studios are currently located inside the city-owned Cox Convention Center. The location has been mentioned as a possible spot for the new arena, but the decision on the arena’s location has not been made yet.

CEO of Prairie Surf Studios Rachel Cannon said in a statement that she looks forward to exploring the next chapter of Prairie Surf.

"We are grateful for the opportunity to use this city asset to develop a proof of concept that showcases the film industry’s potential to provide high-paying jobs, business growth, economic development, and excitement for our City and state. While the convention center wasn’t considered a permanent studio home, it exceeded our expectations in supporting high-level production with Tulsa King and now Twisters. We look forward to exploring the next chapter of Prairie Surf Studios. As the City noted, the arena site has not yet been decided on, nor are there any potential sites for us. We look forward to growing this homegrown “Hollywood” alongside the NBA as we build a brighter tomorrow for Oklahoma City and Oklahoma. Together."

The city council is expected to take up the lease issue at its next meeting.

One other thing: I have been told by several people that Prairie Surf has been looking for a new location for almost two years.

I've always thought Cox should and will be the site, however, they have to have a backup plan (REHCO).

Holt also said this in Steve's chat yesterday:


Q: What goes into a site selection?

Holt: Probably lots of things, but the most obvious is ownership/cost. We have a finite budget for this project and we want every dollar that we can secure going into the arena itself. So clearly, land that the city already owns is going to have some natural advantages.

We've seen the trend of newer and renovated NBA arenas seating reduced to 17,800 - 18,300.

Oklahoma City should take note of these trends, in the event they go back and forth. Let's build an arena with a maximum seating capacity of 20,000. A triple decker with the top balcony seating 1,500 which can be closed off with a middle Mezzanine of 1,500 seats leaving the lower level with 17,000 seats.

The configuration with the top balcony closed off allows for 18,500 for NBA basketball which could be easily expanded to back to 20,000 by opening the top 1,500 seat balcony.

A configuration for regulation ice hockey would require losing 800 lower level seats, the arena could have a maximum seating capacity of 19,200 which could be further reduced by 1,500 seat with a closed off top balcony resulting in a 17,700 configuration.

We want an arena capable of accommodating NBA, concerts, rodeo and NHL.


NBA seating choices 20,000 - 18,500
NHL seating choices 17,700

Make the arena multipurpose and affordable for everyone and built to a configuration to handle multiple types of events from
NBA, G-League basketball, concerts, rodeo and NHL-AHL-ECHL hockey.

Bring back the FFA 10k attendee convention we lost to Tulsa. Go after the NFR we lost to Las Vegas in 1985--the calf roping events could be held in Guthrie's Lazy E arena.
.

I’d bet the capacity is similar to Paycom. I’d be surprised if they did 20k

I’d bet the capacity is similar to Paycom. I’d be surprised if they did 20k

I just want a way for a family with an average median income of $59,214 per year to be able to afford a ticket in a very loud arena.

I just want a way for a family with an average median income of $59,214 per year to be able to afford a ticket in a very loud arena.

I mean, how many people in OKC make more than that? We aren't a crazy wealthy city, and the arena does very well for Thunder games...

I mean, the lease isn't "broken early". It is solely not being renewed in December 2025. So PSM is there until then.

Unless the city reaches an agreement with them to vacate before then, of course.

I just want a way for a family with an average median income of $59,214 per year to be able to afford a ticket in a very loud arena.

11 dollar face value doesn't work for you??

I just want a way for a family with an average median income of $59,214 per year to be able to afford a ticket in a very loud arena.

Not trying to be insensitive but statements like these just make me cringe. With very little effort, you can get into the games for REALLY cheap if you look at the secondary market before each game.

Unless the city reaches an agreement with them to vacate before then, of course.

That's fair. But this initial news doesn't mean it's broken. Just that it won't be renewed. But your point is fair.

To be clear, the original term of the lease with PS is 5 years, which commenced 1/1/2021. Therefore the lease runs until 12/31/2025.

However, several terms in the lease would allow the City to force them out early, but with compensation.

PS also has 3 1-year options, the first of which would commence on 1/1/26. The City is required to give PS 2-years notice if they plan NOT to agree to those options (either side can cancel), and that's why the City has to notify PS no later than 12/31/23, which will be approved by the City Council before the end of this year. In doing so, the City will only be stopping the 3 option years.

That's the first step.

Separately, there will have to be an agreement with PS to leave early, which will no doubt cost additional money.

One other thing: I have been told by several people that Prairie Surf has been looking for a new location for almost two years.

I've always thought Cox should and will be the site, however, they have to have a backup plan (REHCO).

Holt also said this in Steve's chat yesterday:

Ok what is the REHCO SITE everyone keeps talking about? Does the city own the current Paycom site too. Think of all the possibilities for that site if the new arena is next door. Have something like Texas Live in Arlington.