I don't recall reading this type letter when BOK Center was being voted on.

That's probably because BOK Center doesn't have a major tenant. That seems to change the politics.

I find the use of "Windows 95" in paragraph 3 to be odd. I say odd because it immediately makes us think that Paycom is about that age and must be as useless as the reference here.

The paragraph 4 use of "3 arenas built since 2020 with no public money" does not apply IMO. Those were all built in top 10 population metropolitan areas by incredibly wealthy owners, where the economic return is not in doubt. If OKC were comparable we wouldn't be having this vote. Keep it apples to apples.

yep completely out of touch with reality they also don't mention that OKC is building this with OUT taking on long term debt ... which is also a MASSIVE difference ..

Holt has said multiple times that another vote or deal won't happen if this fails - it's one shot

This reminds mean of the car salesman or telemarketer telling me this "deal is available only for today".

Nah that's a false comparison. There was no wealthy group profiting from the outlay of public funds - .

another false statement .. no wealthy group is profiting from the new arena ..

if they wanted to "profit" they would move the team to a larger market .. or sell the team ..

If I had to rely on mail to know about the vote I'd miss it. We've had none.

This reminds mean of the car salesman or telemarketer telling me this "deal is available only for today".

Well it is. Why do you think Holt randomly announced all this? The owners received a bid to buy the team, and are doing this to prevent selling or make more money in the long run. If it doesn't pass, they will sell. Simple as that.

Well it is. Why do you think Holt randomly announced all this? The owners received a bid to buy the team, and are doing this to prevent selling or make more money in the long run. If it doesn't pass, they will sell. Simple as that.

Receipts on the bid? Who? How much? When? Or are you per usual just posting random nonsense and or hearsay?

If I had to rely on mail to know about the vote I'd miss it. We've had none.

We're in 73112 just 5-6 blocks south of Pete and have received the same mailers on the same days he has.

Receipts on the bid? Who? How much? When? Or are you per usual just posting random nonsense and or hearsay?

Awe, you're so cute! It's common sense. There was no talk of a new arena anytime soon, then one day, Holt drops a pipe bomb. Yeah, I am an auditor for a CPA firm who doesn't believe in coincidences.

Not sure why a group of billionaires would show me, or if I had seen it, why I'd tell you anything about it. Lol

Just reading between the lines. He has been pushing this majorly, and been kind of standoff-ish about it on social media. He knows what could happen with a no vote.

These factors tell me all I need to know.

Awe, you're so cute! It's common sense. There was no talk of a new arena anytime soon, then one day, Holt drops a pipe bomb. Yeah, I am an auditor for a CPA firm who doesn't believe in coincidences.

Not sure why a group of billionaires would show me, or if I had seen it, why I'd tell you anything about it. Lol

Just reading between the lines. He has been pushing this majorly, and been kind of standoff-ish about it on social media. He knows what could happen with a no vote.

These factors tell me all I need to know.

In other words, you have no evidence of anything.

Auditor in CPA firm assures no insight on anything. Dealing in conjecture and trying to sell it as a vision into anything is misplaced. Call it what it is... a dreamed up opinion.

As far as no talk.... it's been talked about for some time in many circles in this city. YOU may not have been included, but that doesn't mean it is sudden.

Receipts on the bid? Who? How much? When? Or are you per usual just posting random nonsense and or hearsay?

To be fair, it's no less speculative than saying there's a do-over vote on tap or that the Thunder are going to build an arena on their own if this vote fails. There's nothing to support either of those happening at this point.

As far as no talk.... it's been talked about for some time in many circles in this city. YOU may not have been included, but that doesn't mean it is sudden.

By who, how much, and when?

By who, how much, and when?

Seriously? LOL. I've spoken to many well placed businessmen over the last 5 years where it has been a topic of conversation and speculation. Everyone has know that this was going to be an issue. It is just that many think now is the most opportune time to make it happen.

The lack of coincidence of timing is probably that there is ramped up talk of NBA expansion and number of cities capable and eager to have an NBA team. The threat is as real as is the outdatedness and limitations of our current facility to be a major city venue for world class events on a consistent basis.

chs is probably right... no coincidence. Just good timing for concerns already expressed and plans wanting to proceed.

In other words, you have no evidence of anything.

Auditor in CPA firm assures no insight on anything. Dealing in conjecture and trying to sell it as a vision into anything is misplaced. Call it what it is... a dreamed up opinion.

As far as no talk.... it's been talked about for some time in many circles in this city. YOU may not have been included, but that doesn't mean it is sudden.

Mhmmm, yeah. So just out of nowhere, everything happened to come together at the State of the City address?

Again, I am an auditor for a CPA firm, and we are literally instructed to not believe in coincidences.

It is an opinion, yes, but one based in how this whole litigation has been handled, from all sides. The owners not budging on an amount to input (actually lowering from original projections), the mayor being very standoff-ish about it, the chamber spamming people with vote yes mailers, etc. They all know something big will happen if there is a no vote. You can believe in happy accidents or coincidences, but I refuse to.

Seriously? LOL. I've spoken to many well placed businessmen over the last 5 years where it has been a topic of conversation and speculation. Everyone has know that this was going to be an issue. It is just that many think now is the most opportune time to make it happen.

The lack of coincidence of timing is probably that there is ramped up talk of NBA expansion and number of cities capable and eager to have an NBA team. The threat is as real as is the outdatedness and limitations of our current facility to be a major city venue for world class events on a consistent basis.

chs is probably right... no coincidence. Just good timing for concerns already expressed and plans wanting to proceed.

Sorry, I misread your post as addressing the speculation of a re-do if this fails, as in that's what you were saying is being talked about.

Seems to me that the OKC timeline was something along the lines of....

Latest MAPS vote.

County Jail vote.

For the NBA, it has been.

New CBA/labor peace

TV/Media rights deal.

Thunder arena. Because they want some certainty before...

Elevate expansion talks

I think there are many qualified and interest buyers for any NBA team. My guess is the NBA could have all 30 teams change hands in the next 2 years if they wanted. There are that many potential buyers worldwide. I think the league has an investment advisory firm under contract to investigate and qualify buyer groups on a year round basis. And these guys don't care where the team is, they just want to be in the league.

If I had to rely on mail to know about the vote I'd miss it. We've had none.

Out of curiosity, are you a reliable voter in every election? Or more likely, do you vote 50-80% of the time there's an election but don't turn out for every single one? I am fascinated by election strategies and the decisions made for targeting demographics. We've only received two, but they were addressed to my spouse, not to me. It's the same reason I suspect I've never been asked to be a part of a political poll.

If I had to rely on mail to know about the vote I'd miss it. We've had none.

Please forgive me, because I just have to ask. Your home is in the Oklahoma City limits? Some person is a registered voter who uses that address? They have voted within the last 5-10 years?

Please forgive me, because I just have to ask. Your home is in the Oklahoma City limits? Some person is a registered voter who uses that address? They have voted within the last 5-10 years?
Very much in OKC. Hefner and Rockwell. For 23 years. Both registered and vote at the least in every presidential election.

Very much in OKC. Hefner and Rockwell. For 23 years. Both registered and vote at the least in every presidential election.

I'm sure they are targeting people who vote in almost all the local OKC elections.

That describes me and my friends who have been getting all the mailings.

Very much in OKC. Hefner and Rockwell. For 23 years. Both registered and vote at the least in every presidential election.

Looks legit to me!

I'm fairgrounds area, democrat, voted 43 times since whenever the Oklahoma voter site starts counting. I think it was 2000?

I got my second vote yes card in the mail today.

I'm sure they are targeting people who vote in almost all the local OKC elections.

That describes me and my friends who have been getting all the mailings.

Us too, we vote in every single election we're in town for.

Holt has said multiple times that another vote or deal won't happen if this fails - it's one shot

I mean, of course he’s going to say that. Doesn’t mean it’s even remotely accurate.

Most people have absolutely no idea what is going on at the local level for politics. It only gets slightly better for state level issues, and slightly better again for national politics. It is not about living your life on OKC talk or OKC social media. It is about being informed, which unfortunately most people are not. We have so many potential distractions now that it is easier than ever to be disengaged from your community. Around election season I always break out the voter applications and encourage my staff to vote. I do not encourage them to vote one way or the other, but I do push them to participate. Even when I expedite all the "hard parts" I still only see 2-3 out of every 10 new voters actually go out and get their sticker regularly.

I am not a huge fan of how this arena proposal has been handled, but if it does not pass I will seriously look at relocating. This vote failing is OKC taking a step back from progress. I see recruiters for different companies every single day. The Thunder, the arena and the events it offers are a huge asset for recruiting talent into the city. Without it we will most certainly lose a major part of this city's X factor. I hope all of you get out to vote, and I also hope your vote is yes. Future MAPS style projects will be more successful if we make the right decision and vote yes on this arena.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I'm a hard YES. . .and older than the dirt in some of your backyards so I well remember when we rolled up the sidewalks in downtown OKC. . . before the Myriad, OKCMOA, Bricktown and the Canal, before there were "Districts" and, for the most part if you wanted any kind of excitement/entertainment, you had to go to Dallas or KC. Hopefully we can keep the train on the tracks!!

Awe, you're so cute! It's common sense. There was no talk of a new arena anytime soon, then one day, Holt drops a pipe bomb. Yeah, I am an auditor for a CPA firm who doesn't believe in coincidences.

Not sure why a group of billionaires would show me, or if I had seen it, why I'd tell you anything about it. Lol

Just reading between the lines. He has been pushing this majorly, and been kind of standoff-ish about it on social media. He knows what could happen with a no vote.

These factors tell me all I need to know.

I am cute! Although, that has nothing to do with you being a clown or completely full of crap, speculation, and apparently in desperate need of attention and to feel some sort of importance on a forum. LOL same clown who announced the Dream hotel and condo project was scrapped because the timeline didn't fit your fairytale timeframe. Bless your heart .

You should create an argument thread and just chat there so other people can continue discussing the topic :D

The city stopped mid-renovation on the current arena. The remaining $70MM that was slated for the renovation was paused.

Posters here acting like they need to see a copy of an offer sheet to be convinced the team may be sold is just purposely being obtuse. Ownership bought the team for $350MM, it is worth close to $2B 15 years later. The team can make more money in basically every other city that is salivating for OKC to not pass this vote. If you seriously think OKC has any leverage whatsoever then you don't understand the crazy circumstances that went down in order for us to land the Thunder in the first place. Do people need to be reminded that it took a record-breaking hurricane hitting New Orleans to play a major role in OKC getting a professional sports team? Literally a 1 in 400 year natural event.

Not doing everything in your power to keep the gift that is the Thunder - is incredibly reckless. There is no other "offers" coming people.

Hope the city writes good penalty cause into the lease if OKC has so little leverage.

We're starting to sound like the poor guy who only has the girl because we bought the expensive car we can't afford. That girl is going to leave anyway unless there are high value strings attached.

The funny thing is I support a new arena. I would expect more the Thunder leadership to be more vocal about the upcoming vote if they had any loyalty at all towards OKC. I may have greatly overestimated that loyalty.

I'm sure they are targeting people who vote in almost all the local OKC elections.

That describes me and my friends who have been getting all the mailings.

That 100% describes me and I have gotten probably four or five mailers for this one.

The city stopped mid-renovation on the current arena. The remaining $70MM that was slated for the renovation was paused.

Posters here acting like they need to see a copy of an offer sheet to be convinced the team may be sold is just purposely being obtuse. Ownership bought the team for $350MM, it is worth close to $2B 15 years later. The team can make more money in basically every other city that is salivating for OKC to not pass this vote. If you seriously think OKC has any leverage whatsoever then you don't understand the crazy circumstances that went down in order for us to land the Thunder in the first place. Do people need to be reminded that it took a record-breaking hurricane hitting New Orleans to play a major role in OKC getting a professional sports team? Literally a 1 in 400 year natural event.

Not doing everything in your power to keep the gift that is the Thunder - is incredibly reckless. There is no other "offers" coming people.

I think the NBA teams are valued about $3 billion and up. Maybe closer to $3.5 billion. Of course legacy teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, etc. are waaayyy more.

You are correct, +1B in the last yearish. My reference point was in 2022 when Holt announced the pause on the arena renovations. They were willing to sell @ 2B, and now we are near 3B.

Mark Cuban is selling his controlling interest in the Mavericks for $3.5 billion (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1729648507034759400). The Thunder is probably worth $3B as presently constituted. They won't even have to tell anyone they want to sell. Offers will start pouring in next Tuesday night at 7:30 PM if it's announced publicly that this doesn't pass. Actually, there are surely soft inquiries already. To think there aren't ignores human nature and the nature of business.

And for everyone thinking the timing on this is somehow suspect...the timeline was set for this by the most recent lease renewal, plain and simple. The Thunder is unwilling to face the rapidly-escalating cost of operating a team in the existing building. They can't make moves in that building that allow for new revenue streams. They refused to sign a long-term lease, and from that moment forward this timeline was set. There's nothing coincidental or nefarious about it. The building simply won't work in the future, and this has to be rectified to allow them to make a long-term commitment, which will happen, assuming this passes. None of this is especially complicated.

Another 'Vote Yes' mailer from the Chamber today.

The frequency and related expense tells me they are worried about the vote. Usually for MAPS, you get one or two. I've already received four with a week to go.

Also, Mayor Holt left the City Council meeting early yesterday to go campaign for the arena.

It seems odd that they've smashed it all into the last week or so before the vote instead of actually running a campaign.

^^^^^^^
Actually indicates pro-yes polling. Why fix something if it's not broke? The most likely reason for the current mailer spree is to remind likely voters to get to the polls.

^^^^^^^
Actually indicates pro-yes polling. Why fix something if it's not broke? The most likely reason for the current mailer spree is to remind likely voters to get to the polls.

I made sure to change my registration from OKC to Tulsa and have pushed several friends that have moved into the OKC city limits from the Village, NH, Edmond, etc to do the same. Everyone I know who lives in the city limits is a hard yes vote. Hopefully that's the trend elsewhere.

I made sure to change my registration from OKC to Tulsa and have pushed several friends that have moved into the OKC city limits from the Village, NH, Edmond, etc to do the same. Everyone I know who lives in the city limits is a hard yes vote. Hopefully that's the trend elsewhere.
I know around a dozen people in OKC and are all voting yes. Everyone they know is voting yes. I’ve yet to interact with someone in person that is voting no.

I know around a dozen people in OKC and are all voting yes. Everyone they know is voting yes. I’ve yet to interact with someone in person that is voting no.

My Office is about 60/40 for it.

Mark Cuban is selling his controlling interest in the Mavericks for $3.5 billion (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1729648507034759400). The Thunder is probably worth $3B as presently constituted. They won't even have to tell anyone they want to sell. Offers will start pouring in next Tuesday night at 7:30 PM if it's announced publicly that this doesn't pass. Actually, there are surely soft inquiries already. To think there aren't ignores human nature and the nature of business.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Mark Cuban is selling based on an overall team value of $3.5 billion. He is not getting $3.5 billion. What I have read so far indicates Mrs. Adelson is paying about $2 billion for a majority of the team.

I think Mark Lasry sold his part of the Bucks to Jimmy Haslam a few months ago for about $800 million. That was based on an overall team value of $3.2 billion IIRC.

My Office is about 60/40 for it.

Spoke to a restaurant owner friend in the downtown business area last week and asked what they felt the consensus was among their customers and they said "overwhelmingly for". Of course, this is anecdotal, but that does seem to be the feeling downtown, at least.

There's a reason for this timeline... League expansion and updated TV contracts are just around the corner. One would be extremely naive to think we will have another shot at this if it doesn't pass. Potential bidders are licking their chops (Kansas City in particular) and the owners are in absolutely fantastic position to cash in.

Hope the city writes good penalty cause into the lease if OKC has so little leverage.

We're starting to sound like the poor guy who only has the girl because we bought the expensive car we can't afford. That girl is going to leave anyway unless there are high value strings attached.

The funny thing is I support a new arena. I would expect more the Thunder leadership to be more vocal about the upcoming vote if they had any loyalty at all towards OKC. I may have greatly overestimated that loyalty.

arena leases generally are not breakable

SEATTLE -- Clay Bennett finally found a dollar amount that would sever his contentious relationship with the city of Seattle -- $75 million.

As a result, the SuperSonics are headed to Oklahoma City with Bennett leading the way, leaving behind the team name, colors and 41 years of history.

Oklahoma City will have an NBA franchise for the 2008-09 season after a settlement announced Wednesday between the team and the city of Seattle, severing the bond with the city that culminated in a six-day federal trial over terms of the team's KeyArena lease. The judge was scheduled to rule Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3471503

Generally they aren’t but how exactly did the thunder get here?

There's a reason for this timeline... League expansion and updated TV contracts are just around the corner. One would be extremely naive to think we will have another shot at this if it doesn't pass. Potential bidders are licking their chops (Kansas City in particular) and the owners are in absolutely fantastic position to cash in.

Kansas City was even making bids to get the Toronto Raptors in 2020 due to travel issues related to Covid. The city even cited they could use KC just like OKC was used to host the Hornets. Kansas City voters are currently going through the same thing on the Royals new baseball stadium. That team could very well leave their city if the vote doesn't pass in Spring 2024.

Money talks. Non-power cities are at the mercy of voters. OKC can't shoo-away our state's only major sports franchise and expect a new one to come in our lifetime.

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3471503

Generally they aren’t but how exactly did the thunder get here?

Should have wrote a lease contingent on a positive arena vote. Problem solved. Now were hoping to vote yes and our leaders actually approve a good lease in our favor.

My brother from out of state texted me asking what the feeling of the general OKC population was regarding the new arena vote.

What should I tell him? I don’t have cable or anything so I’m unaware of a large, organized push from the anti-arena crowd if there is one. It may be close but I’d be very surprised if this vote doesn’t pass.

I'm slowly coming to the realization that I need to ask people if they are registered OKC voters. As I think about my business, there are 6 of us and I am the only OKC resident who is registered to vote. A lot of people are talking, but can do anything about it?

I made sure to change my registration from OKC to Tulsa and have pushed several friends that have moved into the OKC city limits from the Village, NH, Edmond, etc to do the same. Everyone I know who lives in the city limits is a hard yes vote. Hopefully that's the trend elsewhere.

Tulsa to OKC*

Hope the city writes good penalty cause into the lease if OKC has so little leverage.

We're starting to sound like the poor guy who only has the girl because we bought the expensive car we can't afford. That girl is going to leave anyway unless there are high value strings attached.

The funny thing is I support a new arena. I would expect more the Thunder leadership to be more vocal about the upcoming vote if they had any loyalty at all towards OKC. I may have greatly overestimated that loyalty.

If you actually knew them then you might get a feel for their level of loyalty. Because you haven’t heard things you might recognize as loyalty statements doesn’t mean they aren’t loyal. And loyalty isn’t just a yes/no proposition anyway.

.


ARENA VOTE: https://www.okc.gov/government/arena-vote




Early Voting (Two Days)
Oklahoma County Election Board
4201 N Lincoln Blvd, Oklahoma City, OK 73105
Thursday, December 7 & Friday, December 8
8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.

https://okcfox.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/1015/center/80/93d16d93-def8-411a-83b3-3e43d29006d4-large16x9_keepokc.PNG


Tuesday, December 12 from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. - Regular voting

I'm sure they are targeting people who vote in almost all the local OKC elections.

That describes me and my friends who have been getting all the mailings.

73162 and have received 5

If you actually knew them then you might get a feel for their level of loyalty. Because you haven’t heard things you might recognize as loyalty statements doesn’t mean they aren’t loyal. And loyalty isn’t just a yes/no proposition anyway.

that's a fair point. i just think there's a significant cohort of folks whom were fine with them playing hardball in Seattle, but hoped that --as native sons with substantial economic and social ties to OKC-- they wouldn't call the same play against their hometown.

I was really interested in that economist letter until I saw it was most likely penned by Cynthia Rogers at OU. I had her as a professor for multiple semesters; doesn’t think growth/change in any sense is a good idea. I was sitting in her lecture hall when the original OU bball arena was announced back in 2017/2018–was adamantly against that as well.

I was really interested in that economist letter until I saw it was most likely penned by Cynthia Rogers at OU. I had her as a professor for multiple semesters; doesn’t think growth/change in any sense is a good idea. I was sitting in her lecture hall when the original OU bball arena was announced back in 2017/2018–was adamantly against that as well.

Some (to be clear…not all) of those who can’t do, teach and all that.

that's a fair point. i just think there's a significant cohort of folks whom were fine with them playing hardball in Seattle, but hoped that --as native sons with substantial economic and social ties to OKC-- they wouldn't call the same play against their hometown.
What have they said that compares to what they said and did in Seattle? They brought a team to a much smaller, less profitable city and have fully invested in this community. What they have indicated here is that they need an improved venue to remain competitive in their industry. They are looking to see if the citizens want that industry enough to agree with them. If the citizens don’t care, then they must look at their long term future prospects and not determine IF they are loyal, but HOW MUCH it will cost them to be loyal and what the city has told them about its own loyalty.

Got both my first "pro-arena" content and "anti-arena" content, both promoted posts, on my Instagram feed yesterday. Thought that was interesting.

Got an anti-arena text from the OKC chapter of BLM. Interesting.

Got an anti-arena text from the OKC chapter of BLM. Interesting.

I got that as well. I think it says it was from “black votes matter”

Planning to early vote after work today as it’s convenient on my drive home. Voting yes

Article from today's Oklahoman on the campaigning for/against the arena, including the mailers: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/12/07/okc-thunder-nba-arena-vote-arguments-for-against-election/71755278007/

From the article:

Tyler Moore, the Keep OKC Big League campaign manager, said internal polling indicated high enthusiasm in favor of the arena proposal. Campaign supporters are busy in the final week before the election distributing signs and promotional materials to local restaurants and bars, Moore said, but staffers are careful to not assume voters would approve the proposal overwhelmingly.

“You know, any special election, I don’t like to dream too much of blowouts. It’s a smaller electorate, smaller universe, smaller turnout — that’s just how it’s gonna be,” Moore told The Oklahoman. “People are making a lot of predictions, but I think we’re going to be healthily over the margin.”

Voter turnout for special elections in Oklahoma City is historically lower than primary and general elections centered around high-profile politicians, and residents have often not shown up in high numbers even for local initiatives meant to directly improve the city. The ambitious MAPS 4 project passed in December 2019 with only 7% of the city population casting a ballot.

“People also forget that ... the third MAPS (proposal) barely passed, and I imagine it polled well then, too," Moore said. "So, we can’t just trust that and put it all in the poll — we’ve got to do everything we can and act like we’re behind regardless, so that’s what we’re working to do.”

7% of the city population is a completely worthless number when it comes to voting. How about a percentage of voters registered in OKC? Still probably be horrendously small, but it'd be accurate.