also Baltimore could be part of the DC metro and Austin more or less with San Antonio. With this there'd actually be 14 ahead of OKC metro.

It is this reason I think MARKET SIZE is a much better representation. But the mayor's point is still made, and valid.
Yep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%E2%80%93Baltimore_combined_statistical_ area

Yep.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%E2%80%93Baltimore_combined_statistical_ area

your link proves that it is not part of the DC metro

your link proves that it is not part of the DC metro

Yep. What the link does show is that these metros overlap. That is why HR made the initial assumption.
Those areas overlap like Newark-NYC or Oakland-SF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPq4ERo1fB8

your link proves that it is not part of the DC metro

DC and Baltimore are the same Combined Statistical Area (CSA) and used to be the same MSA. They really should be the same MSA again. By the end of this decade DC-Baltimore will likely pass 10 million people and would be considered a mega-city. The area already has more people than Chicagoland.

Driving distance:
Dallas to Ft Worth – 36.7 miles
DC to Baltimore – 38.5 miles

Austin to San Antonio – 79.3 miles

CSA Population
Dallas-Ft Worth CSA – 8,449,932
Washington-Baltimore-Arlington CSA – 9,968,104

Austin and San Antonio are not a CSA together

DC and Baltimore are less than two miles further from each other than Dallas and Ft Worth and the combined cities have more than a million more people than DFW.

Here are the eighteen (18) metros without NBA larger than Oklahoma City MSA.


12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
(5) 20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA

21 St. Louis, MO-IL MSA
26 Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA
28 Pittsburgh, PA MSA
29 Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA
(10) 30 Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA

31 Kansas City, MO-KS MSA
32 Columbus, OH MSA
35 Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA
36 San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA
(15) 37 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA

38 Jacksonville, FL MSA
39 Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA
(18) 41 Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA

42 Oklahoma City, OK MSA

Source: Metropolitan statistical areas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

.

Not all those markets are really a good potential new NBA market.

For purposes of sports markets these five cities already have a team:
12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA is part of the LA market (2MLB, 2NFL, 2NBA, NHL), which already has two teams but could support a third
20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA is part of the DC/Baltimore market (2MLB, 2NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
26. Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA, San Antonio (NBA) would assert that Austin is part of their market and likely would be able to block a team
36. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA is part of the Bay Area market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
39. Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA is part of the Boston market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team

I would argue these six cites are saturated with existing sports team:
28. Pittsburgh, PA MSA (MLB, NFL, NHL)
29. Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA (NHL, NFL and soon MLB) **LV may be an outlier due to tourism**
31. Kansas City, MO-KS MSA (MLB, NFL)
30. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA (MLB, NFL)
35. Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA (NFL, NHL)
41. Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA (NHL)

That leaves seven cities from your list:
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
21. St. Louis, MO-IL MSA
32. Columbus, OH MSA
37. Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA
38. Jacksonville, FL MSA

Not all those markets are really a good potential new NBA market.

For purposes of sports markets these five cities already have a team:
12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA is part of the LA market (2MLB, 2NFL, 2NBA, NHL), which already has two teams but could support a third
20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA is part of the DC/Baltimore market (2MLB, 2NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
26. Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA, San Antonio (NBA) would assert that Austin is part of their market and likely would be able to block a team
36. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA is part of the Bay Area market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
39. Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA is part of the Boston market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team

I would argue these six cites are saturated with existing sports team:
28. Pittsburgh, PA MSA (MLB, NFL, NHL)
29. Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA (NHL, NFL and soon MLB) **LV may be an outlier due to tourism**
31. Kansas City, MO-KS MSA (MLB, NFL)
30. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA (MLB, NFL)
35. Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA (NFL, NHL)
41. Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA (NHL)

That leaves seven cities from your list:
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
21. St. Louis, MO-IL MSA
32. Columbus, OH MSA
37. Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA
38. Jacksonville, FL MSA

Of those 7, there are 3 that don't have an NBA quality arena (or NHL quality, for that matter). So they would have to build one to facilitate an NBA team (and would, if they had to). OKC will support an arena, I have no doubt. But they will want to know ownership wants to be here, as well.

Not all those markets are really a good potential new NBA market.

For purposes of sports markets these five cities already have a team:
12. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA is part of the LA market (2MLB, 2NFL, 2NBA, NHL), which already has two teams but could support a third
20. Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD MSA is part of the DC/Baltimore market (2MLB, 2NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
26. Austin-Round Rock-Georgetown, TX MSA, San Antonio (NBA) would assert that Austin is part of their market and likely would be able to block a team
36. San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA MSA is part of the Bay Area market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team, but could support a second
39. Providence-Warwick, RI-MA MSA is part of the Boston market (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL), which already has a team

I would argue these six cites are saturated with existing sports team:
28. Pittsburgh, PA MSA (MLB, NFL, NHL)
29. Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV MSA (NHL, NFL and soon MLB) **LV may be an outlier due to tourism**
31. Kansas City, MO-KS MSA (MLB, NFL)
30. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN MSA (MLB, NFL)
35. Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA (NFL, NHL)
41. Raleigh-Cary, NC MSA (NHL)

That leaves seven cities from your list:
15. Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA MSA
17. Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL MSA
18. San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA
21. St. Louis, MO-IL MSA
32. Columbus, OH MSA
37. Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA
38. Jacksonville, FL MSA
Tampa is saturated also. (MLB, NFL, NHL)
Seattle will get next expansion
San Diego is a proven failed marketplace(Clippers)
St. Louis (saturated) has NHL and MLB and minor league XFL

Tampa is saturated also. (MLB, NFL, NHL)
Seattle will get next expansion
San Diego is a proven failed marketplace(Clippers)
St. Louis (saturated) has NHL and MLB and minor league XFL

Expansion seems questionable to get approval, even as the price an expansion team has increased, they still are looking at losing money from that in perpetuity, with that lose exceeding the one time bump in less than a decade from numbers reported. Could that change as media revenue has questions with the future around cable and streaming services maybe, but it also impacts current owners likely sale prices, and pool of potential bidders. Plus every time the next best candidate for a team is gone, the less credible relocation threats are to the current city they want public funds for either a new stadium or renovation of current one.

There also are arguments on diluting the product, and making it harder for their individual team to win at the highest levels.

the new nba teams are going to seattle and vegas .. .this is known

I'm just happy to report that Orlando is going to try and take the Jags off our hands. That will free up several billion dollars in our local economy. Orlando is offering to spend $800 million in public funds upgrading Camping World Stadium.

I'm just happy to report that Orlando is going to try and take the Jags off our hands. That will free up several billion dollars in our local economy. Orlando is offering to spend $800 million in public funds upgrading Camping World Stadium.

And what will replace the billions they generate for Jacksonville?

I'm just happy to report that Orlando is going to try and take the Jags off our hands. That will free up several billion dollars in our local economy. Orlando is offering to spend $800 million in public funds upgrading Camping World Stadium.

link??

i know they want to host during the 2 year jax stadium rebuild ..


orlando is also the back up landing spot if the tampa bay area doesn't build a new baseball stadium .

And what will replace the billions they generate for Jacksonville?

Links to the economic benefits for Jville. v. costs that also include lost oppotunity costs?

I'm just happy to report that Orlando is going to try and take the Jags off our hands. That will free up several billion dollars in our local economy. Orlando is offering to spend $800 million in public funds upgrading Camping World Stadium.

Lol, wrong.


The Khans and the city of Jacksonville are remodeling Everbank Field, to the tune of something like a billion dollars. It'll become one of the best, if not THE best NFL stadium. They're also remodeling Daily's Place which is basically the home base of All Elite Wrestling and directly attached to Everbank Field. The Khans have a CRAP TON of money invested here.


But guess what? When the stadium starts renovations, the Jaguars can't play there for the 2 years it should take to remodel their stadium. So it's been rumored the Jags would play at The Swamp in Gainesville. But now Orlando has swooped in and wants to renovate Camping World before the Jacksonville renovated Everbank, so that Orlando gets the Jags for the 2 years of renovations. Plus, once Camping World is renovated, Orlando would be able land bigger events and what not there.


That's it. Orlando, nor anyone else is taking the Jags. Orlando just wants to update their dump of a stadium. Camping World is friggin awful.

Lol, wrong.


The Khans and the city of Jacksonville are remodeling Everbank Field, to the tune of something like a billion dollars. It'll become one of the best, if not THE best NFL stadium. They're also remodeling Daily's Place which is basically the home base of All Elite Wrestling and directly attached to Everbank Field. The Khans have a CRAP TON of money invested here.


But guess what? When the stadium starts renovations, the Jaguars can't play there for the 2 years it should take to remodel their stadium. So it's been rumored the Jags would play at The Swamp in Gainesville. But now Orlando has swooped in and wants to renovate Camping World before the Jacksonville renovated Everbank, so that Orlando gets the Jags for the 2 years of renovations. Plus, once Camping World is renovated, Orlando would be able land bigger events and what not there.


That's it. Orlando, nor anyone else is taking the Jags. Orlando just wants to update their dump of a stadium. Camping World is friggin awful.

For a guy named JustTheFacts.............oooof

For a guy named JustTheFacts.............oooof

It is a common JustTheFacts L.

https://journalrecord.com/files/2023/06/km-downtown-arena-1-main.jpg

MAPS 4 plan that includes $111 million for upgrades. Officials are holding back $70 million that could go to a new arena, which would replace the 21-year-old Paycom Center.

Hope to see some actual dollar figures on a new arena with some designs and specs. A good placeholder could get the ball rolling. . .

And what will replace the billions they generate for Jacksonville?

I would *love* to see you back up this claim with something. If a middling NFL team can provide billions for a medium sized city in the US then that would be an incredible investment that OKC should pursue with reckless abandon.

I would *love* to see you back up this claim with something. If a middling NFL team can provide billions for a medium sized city in the US then that would be an incredible investment that OKC should pursue with reckless abandon.

I meant to add a "d" at the end. Generated. I didn't even realize I didn't have that there.

Without the NFL, they would have no need for that stadium. So Jacksonville would have missed out on numerous other events, like the UGA-UF rivalry and large-scale concerts that go there. I did not mean per year. But when you consider what that stadium and the NFL have done since it opened, renovating it on city dime will pay off relatively quickly. I'd guess (without caring enough to look for any financial numbers, just using common sense).

Unless you think sunk costs need to just be "forgiven and forgotten" like they never happened or took place. That stadium and all its benefits have already been paid for. So if you let the team leave, then it's all in vain, and you will have empty asset even more than it already is, with very minimal money ever made using it.

And yes, I am in favor of using city dollars to build a new arena. No hypocrisy on my end.

I meant to add a "d" at the end. Generated. I didn't even realize I didn't have that there.

Without the NFL, they would have no need for that stadium. So Jacksonville would have missed out on numerous other events, like the UGA-UF rivalry and large-scale concerts that go there. I did not mean per year. But when you consider what that stadium and the NFL have done since it opened, renovating it on city dime will pay off relatively quickly. I'd guess (without caring enough to look for any financial numbers, just using common sense).

Unless you think sunk costs need to just be "forgiven and forgotten" like they never happened or took place. That stadium and all its benefits have already been paid for. So if you let the team leave, then it's all in vain, and you will have empty asset even more than it already is, with very minimal money ever made using it.

And yes, I am in favor of using city dollars to build a new arena. No hypocrisy on my end.

Time and time again these projects prove to be instrumental in developing and maintaining a strong and attractive local economy, particularly in city cores. They have an even greater impact on mid major markets (such as OKC). You either keep up with the times or get left behind. Pretty simple. If you don't want to pay for anything and have a ****ty quality of life just move to memphis or midland lol.

the new nba teams are going to seattle and vegas .. .this is known

I know that is the sexy and Bill Simmons take, but it doesn't add up that Las Vegas will get a team. It doesn't fit how the NBA has expanded in the past, nor does it pencil out with population considerations.

I saw the OVG presentation a couple weeks ago about their planned complex on LVB south. Noticed they thought their 20K-ish capacity arena could draw 15 million people a year. That would require 2 sold out shows per day for 365 days a year. It is more than the annual attendance of T-Mobile Arena, Caesars Colosseum, MGM Garden Arena and Bakkt (former Zappos) Theater combined. More than 1/3 of all visitors to Las Vegas per year.

Time and time again these projects prove to be instrumental in developing and maintaining a strong and attractive local economy, particularly in city cores. They have an even greater impact on mid major markets (such as OKC). You either keep up with the times or get left behind. Pretty simple. If you don't want to pay for anything and have a ****ty quality of life just move to memphis or midland lol.

Memphis is a great city. Midland I can agree with. That place is a hellscape.

Memphis is a great city. Midland I can agree with. That place is a hellscape.

Memphis is fine, just haven't invested in themselves like Nashville/Knoxville has over the last decade or two - and it shows.

I know that is the sexy and Bill Simmons take, but it doesn't add up that Las Vegas will get a team. It doesn't fit how the NBA has expanded in the past, nor does it pencil out with population considerations.

I saw the OVG presentation a couple weeks ago about their planned complex on LVB south. Noticed they thought their 20K-ish capacity arena could draw 15 million people a year. That would require 2 sold out shows per day for 365 days a year. It is more than the annual attendance of T-Mobile Arena, Caesars Colosseum, MGM Garden Arena and Bakkt (former Zappos) Theater combined. More than 1/3 of all visitors to Las Vegas per year.

Seattle and Vegas have been earmarked for expansion it has been an open secret for a while. The Vegas ownership group has over 10 billion in cash on hand. Seattle already has an NBA ready facility and an ownership group that is motivated to bring the NBA back to the city.

Speaking of Nashville and Knoxville, both are building new stadiums.

https://frontofficesports.com/nashville-passes-2-billion-titans-stadium-sets-record-for-public-funding/

https://www.knoxvilletn.gov/government/city_departments_offices/economic_development/strategic_projects___places/proposed_sports_and_entertainment_stadium

I know that is the sexy and Bill Simmons take, but it doesn't add up that Las Vegas will get a team. It doesn't fit how the NBA has expanded in the past, nor does it pencil out with population considerations.

I saw the OVG presentation a couple weeks ago about their planned complex on LVB south. Noticed they thought their 20K-ish capacity arena could draw 15 million people a year. That would require 2 sold out shows per day for 365 days a year. It is more than the annual attendance of T-Mobile Arena, Caesars Colosseum, MGM Garden Arena and Bakkt (former Zappos) Theater combined. More than 1/3 of all visitors to Las Vegas per year.

Except for that lebron wants to bring an NBA team to Las Vegas in a few years when he retires and so that's what will happen.

Memphis is fine, just haven't invested in themselves like Nashville/Knoxville has over the last decade or two - and it shows.

Memphis has built the FedEx Forum and Autozone Park in the last two decades. They are also building a 10,000 seat soccer specific stadium and putting 200 million in renovations at the liberty bowl (which the city owns.) Not sure what more they could do.

I would *love* to see you back up this claim with something. If a middling NFL team can provide billions for a medium sized city in the US then that would be an incredible investment that OKC should pursue with reckless abandon.

NFL teams by themselves average over half a billion dollars in revenue a year. The 2023 salary cap is $225 million. The payroll for the whole team's organization has to be very close to $250 million a year.

The advertising for a city, especially a smaller city, is huge. 72% of Americans watch live NFL games. The average number of viewers watching an NFL game is 17 million and every game is televised. That's half a billion eyeballs over a season with the city mentioned dozens if not hundreds of times each game. Then all the press coverage on newscasts and sports shows all over the country. Hundreds if not thousands of websites devoted to the NFL. All the talk shows and podcasts about the NFL. The press is endless.

If Oklahoma City could swing an NFL team, that should absolutely happen. I personally think a billion dollars for an NBA arena is a lot, it's doable, but not sure it's really needed with construction being cheaper in Oklahoma. But a couple of billion for an NFL? OKC should sign up for that every day. I'm not sure a certain dude in Arlington, TX would allow it, but Oklahoma City should try.

Time and time again these projects prove to be instrumental in developing and maintaining a strong and attractive local economy, particularly in city cores. They have an even greater impact on mid major markets (such as OKC). You either keep up with the times or get left behind. Pretty simple. If you don't want to pay for anything and have a ****ty quality of life just move to memphis or midland lol.

Or move to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, or Philly. Those cities have or will have state of the art arenas with no tax payer involvement or SLC where the arena had only 18% public funding.

Or move to Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, or Philly. Those cities have or will have state of the art arenas with no tax payer involvement or SLC where the arena had only 18% public funding.

Would love if OKC could swing a deal like that, but I do think the writing is definitely on the wall re: the public funding of the new arena. They don’t have Holt out there kissing babies and marching at Pride Festivals for no reason.

NFL teams by themselves average over half a billion dollars in revenue a year. The 2023 salary cap is $225 million. The payroll for the whole team's organization has to be very close to $250 million a year.

The advertising for a city, especially a smaller city, is huge. 72% of Americans watch live NFL games. The average number of viewers watching an NFL game is 17 million and every game is televised. That's half a billion eyeballs over a season with the city mentioned dozens if not hundreds of times each game. Then all the press coverage on newscasts and sports shows all over the country. Hundreds if not thousands of websites devoted to the NFL. All the talk shows and podcasts about the NFL. The press is endless.

If Oklahoma City could swing an NFL team, that should absolutely happen. I personally think a billion dollars for an NBA arena is a lot, it's doable, but not sure it's really needed with construction being cheaper in Oklahoma. But a couple of billion for an NFL? OKC should sign up for that every day. I'm not sure a certain dude in Arlington, TX would allow it, but Oklahoma City should try.

We have no chance at an NFL team, league isn't expanding anytime soon and no one is currently looking to relocate.

Would love if OKC could swing a deal like that, but I do think the writing is definitely on the wall re: the public funding of the new arena. They don’t have Holt out there kissing babies and marching at Pride Festivals for no reason.

Why invest in buying the cow if the cream and butter are free. In this case the farmer doesn't even ask for feed money, just a selfie or two.

We have no chance at an NFL team, league isn't expanding anytime soon and no one is currently looking to relocate.

We could try to sneak the Chiefs to Oklahoma City in the night and hope they don’t notice the city spelling difference.

Although our city plans on funding a $900 million+ new NBA arena on the PSM site, we should also look at funding an $84 million multipurpose stadium with the $42 million (OKC's share) allocated thru MAPS 4 funds.

Now would be the time to build an 18,500 seat state-of-the-are NBA-NHL arena (PSM site) and a 25,000 seat (expandable) $84 million multipurpose stadium in partnership $42 million--Chickasaw Tribe share near the FAM & OKANA developments.

The stadium could be tailored for soccer, American Football, large outdoor concerts and festivals.

Although our city plans on funding a $900 million+ new NBA arena on the PSM site, we should also look at funding an $84 million multipurpose stadium with the $42 million (OKC's share) allocated thru MAPS 4 funds.

Now would be the time to build an 18,500 seat state-of-the-are NBA-NHL arena (PSM site) and a 25,000 seat (expandable) $84 million multipurpose stadium in partnership $42 million--Chickasaw Tribe share near the FAM & OKANA developments.

The stadium could be tailored for soccer, American Football, large outdoor concerts and festivals.

I wish they would've gone with the stadium design with a larger canopy covering more seats

Although our city plans on funding a $900 million+ new NBA arena on the PSM site, we should also look at funding an $84 million multipurpose stadium with the $42 million (OKC's share) allocated thru MAPS 4 funds.

Now would be the time to build an 18,500 seat state-of-the-are NBA-NHL arena (PSM site) and a 25,000 seat (expandable) $84 million multipurpose stadium in partnership $42 million--Chickasaw Tribe share near the FAM & OKANA developments.

The stadium could be tailored for soccer, American Football, large outdoor concerts and festivals.

The current lot where Paycom Center is would a smart location for the MAPS 4 stadium. City already owns the land. Could create some kind of shared parking structure for new arena + stadium.

Imagine that block of a world-class arena, new multipurpose stadium, Myriad Gardens, Convention Center, Sciscortail. A true entertainment/social district.

The current lot where Paycom Center is would a smart location for the MAPS 4 stadium. City already owns the land. Could create some kind of shared parking structure for new arena + stadium.

Imagine that block of a world-class arena, new multipurpose stadium, Myriad Gardens, Convention Center, Sciscortail. A true entertainment/social district.

How big do you think the Paycom lot is? I don't know if it is big enough for a soccer stadium. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

How big do you think the Paycom lot is? I don't know if it is big enough for a soccer stadium. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

It may require removing the parking garage and Courtyard Marriot on that same block. I'm not sure of the specific space requirements, but it could be doable. For reference, this is what that block would look like if the Bricktown Ballpark were on top of it.

18098

Just not for putting everything downtown. The Paycom Center could be repurposed as part of the new convention center with a 16,000 permanent seat arena. Let's get ECHL AA hockey vs Tulsa & Wichita in our portfolio.

The MAPS 4 multipurpose stadium should be on city-owned land tied with the FAM & Okana Resort to take advantage of OKANA parking.

We just invested IIRC $28.5 million on a 1,200 space convention center parking garage. Since there's this push back on surface parking; a garage will be needed for the stadium and future developments having a garage would attract.

The location isn't really up for debate or discussion. It's going to be Cox Center

The location isn't really up for debate or discussion. It's going to be Cox Center

Yes, it has long been decided.

The location isn't really up for debate or discussion. It's going to be Cox Center

I am referring to the MAPS Multipurpose Stadium, not the new NBA Arena. Could be a potential use of the vacated Paycom Center lot.

The multipurpose stadium won’t go in the Paycom location. I’m not saying I know where it WILL go; just saying I’m 100% certain where it WON’T go: the Paycom site.

We can start with the fact that the stadium site will be selected and the project will likely even be underway YEARS before Paycom is vacated.

Hopefully by then the Downtown Ford site will have a large vertical mixed-use project underway that could expand onto the Paycom site directly to the east

The current Paycom Center location is far too important to use on a multipurpose stadium for a soccer team that was struggling to reach 50% attendance in Taft, and has likely alienated a large portion of the small fanbase that they did have. And I say this as someone who really enjoyed attending Energy games before they folded, and will enjoy going to soccer matches in the MAPS 4 stadium provided that Prodigal no longer has a majority stake in the team. But it is probably going to be a long process to get this city to care about soccer again given the trajectory of the Energy from (roughly) 2018 to the present day, and not worth risking the current arena site on.

I will continue to attempt to manifest that the best solution for the Energy/MAPS 4 stadium situation is for the Chickasaws to buy out Prodigal, take control of the team, and kick in some extra money so that the stadium is something to be proud of (because the $41 million currently allocated will not go very far with construction costs these days). IMO, it just makes too much sense for something like this not to happen given what Pete has previously posted about the likelihood of the MAPS 4 Stadium being built in the FAM/OKANA complex.

The current Paycom Center location is far too important to use on a multipurpose stadium for a soccer team that was struggling to reach 50% attendance in Taft, and has likely alienated a large portion of the small fanbase that they did have. And I say this as someone who really enjoyed attending Energy games before they folded, and will enjoy going to soccer matches in the MAPS 4 stadium provided that Prodigal no longer has a majority stake in the team. But it is probably going to be a long process to get this city to care about soccer again given the trajectory of the Energy from (roughly) 2018 to the present day, and not worth risking the current arena site on.

I will continue to attempt to manifest that the best solution for the Energy/MAPS 4 stadium situation is for the Chickasaws to buy out Prodigal, take control of the team, and kick in some extra money so that the stadium is something to be proud of (because the $41 million currently allocated will not go very far with construction costs these days). IMO, it just makes too much sense for something like this not to happen given what Pete has previously posted about the likelihood of the MAPS 4 Stadium being built in the FAM/OKANA complex.

Not a fair argument to say a downtown stadium would fail because Taft only got 50% attendance - apples and oranges comparison. Taft has no restaurants or bars surrounding it and isn't a destination. A downtown stadium could really thrive by being in the heart of the action.

And I do think the city will care about soccer again - the timing is perfect with the stadium opening a year after the World Cup being in the United States.

All that being said, agree that an ownership change and partnership with the Chickasaws is probably the best answer to long term soccer growth. West of OKANA on the river could be real option. Imagine if it's open before the 2028 Olympics - it would continue to add to the river scene.

The average NBA arena capacity is 18,790. NBA arenas on the average are getting smaller.

A new OKC arena around (18,600) will more than adequately fill the Thunder's needs.

OKC should look at the five NBA city arenas above us with 2 million MSA


24. San Antonio - 2,655,342) - AT&T Center (18,418)
25. Portland - 2,09,489 - Moda Center (19,393)
27. Sacramento - 2,416,702 - Golden 1 Center (17,608
33. Indianapolis - 2,141,779 - Bankers Life Fieldhouse (17,923)
34. Cleveland - 2,063,132 - Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse (19,432)

Average for the above five cities' arenas = 18,555

Small Market Cities:


40. Milwaukee - 1,559,792 - Fiserv Forum (17,341)
42. Oklahoma City - 1,459,380 - Paycom Center (18,203)
44 Memphis - 1,332,305 - FedExForum (18,119)
46. Salt Lake City - 1,266,191 - Vivint Arena (18,306)
47. New Orleans - 1,246,176 - Smoothie King Center (16,867)

Note: Let's not build an arena with a smaller capacity than our current Paycom Center.

18,405 sounds like a perfect capacity for the new arena to me.

18,405 sounds like a perfect capacity for the new arena to me.

I would think overall capacity will be close to Paycom Center's current 18,000ish, but we will see a significant increase in luxury seating and club spaces. That's where they can make a lot more revenue.

I would think overall capacity will be close to Paycom Center's current 18,000ish, but we will see a significant increase in luxury seating and club spaces. That's where they can make a lot more revenue.

It's also what the modern fan wants. The goal is to get you to the arena early, and keep you there late. I am hoping and expecting some form of the nixed "thunder alley" concept that includes office, retail, multi-family, and entertainment surrounding or attached to the arena.

I'd bet it comes in around 17,405

It's also what the modern fan wants. The goal is to get you to the arena early, and keep you there late. I am hoping and expecting some form of the nixed "thunder alley" concept that includes office, retail, multi-family, and entertainment surrounding or attached to the arena.

Yep - they'll want to incorporate ways to bring people there 365 days a year. Folks on here have mentioned comparisons to Fiserv Forum in Milwaukee. Not only is it a beautiful arena, but they built it with the "Deer District" of bars, shops and eateries that are utilized even on non-event days.

https://deerdistrict.com/

It's also what the modern fan wants. The goal is to get you to the arena early, and keep you there late. I am hoping and expecting some form of the nixed "thunder alley" concept that includes office, retail, multi-family, and entertainment surrounding or attached to the arena.

I really hope they bring back the version of Thunder Alley that plays playoff games for fans outside. Milwaukee and Toronto do it and it looks electric. I miss it!

I really hope they bring back the version of Thunder Alley that plays playoff games for fans outside. Milwaukee and Toronto do it and it looks electric. I miss it!

Hope they use most of the $70 million Mayor Holt paused to finish the Paycom Center and Thunder Alley projects.

Hope they use most of the $70 million Mayor Holt paused to finish the Paycom Center and Thunder Alley projects.

what??

Hope they use most of the $70 million Mayor Holt paused to finish the Paycom Center and Thunder Alley projects.

Um, are we misunderstanding you? That money is being saved for a new arena. Thunder Alley would have no future in the original spot. Something like it would be included on the arena site.

what??


Um, are we misunderstanding you? That money is being saved for a new arena. Thunder Alley would have no future in the original spot. Something like it would be included on the arena site.

It's all (Funds) going to the new arena. IIRC there were some upgrades they could do with current Paycom Center but the 70,000 sq. ft of additional restaurant space was scrapped. Hope they could transfer some funds to Thunder Alley.

We'll know more when Mayor Holt announces plans for the new arena.

OMG: I'm feeling like I'm to miss the Paycom Center; yet we don't know how it's going to fit in OKC's plan--afterall
it was our first big league large arena.

They have maps money not included in the paused 70mil that's going toward the Paycom (New seats, scoareboard, etc) - The Thunder alley stuff was a tif project separate from maps, right?

^

Yes, Thunder Alley was never part of MAPS.