Can you articulate exactly what prevents OKC from getting back 2 back concerts? Initially my understanding was we missed out on nights that larger artist might come to the Paycom due to the loading docks not being able to facilitate that quick of a turn around. Now it’s jumped to we’re missing out in general but the NBA games have little to no impact on that per a previous comment. So somethings not adding up here and it’s starting to sound like a bunch of biased opinions without any factual information backing the claims. As this narrative grows the opinions are starting to incorporate watching out of a window and relatives in the industry. I’m just curious if anyone has anything factual from a city representative?

It's been articulated enough. It takes all day for 6 trucks to get in and out of the arena. Other arenas can be done in a 3rd of the time.

It's been articulated enough. It takes all day for 6 trucks to get in and out of the arena. Other arenas can be done in a 3rd of the time.

So how many concerts are we missing out on?

1-2???

There is nothing based on your explanation that would show otherwise.

If the NBA isn’t really a factor based on ease of load/unload. It would only amount to back 2 back nights for very large acts. So what is that number on an annual basis?

So how many concerts are we missing out on?

1-2???

There is nothing based on your explanation that would show otherwise.

If the NBA isn’t really a factor based on ease of load/unload. It would only amount to back 2 back nights for very large acts. So what is that number on an annual basis?

We are missing out on probably 7-9. The huge, mega-shows can't make it work here, because the logistics of getting all the stage pieces in place are too difficult.

But obviously, you aren't wanting to hear anything. I said I had a friend who works in the events department at Paycom Center, and she knows there are certain shows she can't even waste her breath on.

We are missing out on probably 7-9. The huge, mega-shows can't make it work here, because the logistics of getting all the stage pieces in place are too difficult.

But obviously, you aren't wanting to hear anything. I said I had a friend who works in the events department at Paycom Center, and she knows there are certain shows she can't even waste her breath on.

So it’s not just the logistics of bringing in larger acts in back to back nights? It’s more of an overall logistical issue for acts that are above a certain size? There is a lot of information that has been thrown out so just trying to understand what the city is really facing and a legitimate opportunity loss.

It would be helpful if the city would share some factual data showing this to be the case.

So how many concerts are we missing out on?

1-2???

There is nothing based on your explanation that would show otherwise.

If the NBA isn’t really a factor based on ease of load/unload. It would only amount to back 2 back nights for very large acts. So what is that number on an annual basis?

Go to setlist.fm, look up BOK Center (which I assume is configured with an up-to-date loading area) or any other big arena, and start counting back-to-back concert dates. setlist.fm doesn't list things like Cirque Du Soleil, or other non-music shows, so you're not really getting the whole picture, but probably close enough.

So it’s not just the logistics of bringing in larger acts in back to back nights? It’s more of an overall logistical issue for acts that are above a certain size? There is a lot of information that has been thrown out so just trying to understand what the city is really facing and a legitimate opportunity loss.

It would be helpful if the city would share some factual data showing this to be the case.

There is no data for that. Lol. It's not on the city. It's ASM, the arena management Co. They know what arenas they have under management, and which ones can work with which concerts. Again, there are people on here who are asking for things thst just don't exist. Why would ASM keep track of concerts that don't go to one of their arenas, but go to 35 others? They don't.

There is no data for that. Lol. It's not on the city. It's ASM, the arena management Co. They know what arenas they have under management, and which ones can work with which concerts. Again, there are people on here who are asking for things thst just don't exist. Why would ASM keep track of concerts that don't go to one of their arenas, but go to 35 others? They don't.

It’s simple. The city would want that data so they can show voters the potential opportunity loss. When you’re asking for funding towards a $1B arena and you have two main campaign points it would be helpful to illustrate the potential.

Go to setlist.fm, look up BOK Center (which I assume is configured with an up-to-date loading area) or any other big arena, and start counting back-to-back concert dates. setlist.fm doesn't list things like Cirque Du Soleil, or other non-music shows, so you're not really getting the whole picture, but probably close enough.

I took a look at the BOK center and that’s what started me down this rabbit hole. I was under the impression the issue was back to back concert nights.

I took a look at the BOK center and that’s what started me down this rabbit hole. I was under the impression the issue was back to back concert nights.

Traveling shows (Cirque Du Soleil used as an example because I've seen a bunch at Paycom and know how much equipment they have) have most likely the same amount of gear as a concert does, so they should count too. As I said, I don't know if BOK Center logistics are the same as an updated arena would be, so maybe a newer arena would be a better comparison (I don't know any because I'm not a sports guy).

It’s simple. The city would want that data so they can show voters the potential opportunity loss. When you’re asking for funding towards a $1B arena and you have two main campaign points it would be helpful to illustrate the potential.I have to agree with this. If the city wants this to pass easily they should have collected any and all possible data sets that support a new arena. Then package the results that would point the general public, maybe non Thunder fans, towards understanding the advantages of a new arena. Because something isn't normally in the scope of city operations doesn't mean they can't perform that function if it benefits the city and its citizens.

I have to agree with this. If the city wants this to pass easily they should have collected any and all possible data sets that support a new arena. Then package the results that would point the general public, maybe non Thunder fans, towards understanding the advantages of a new arena. Because something isn't normally in the scope of city operations doesn't mean they can't perform that function if it benefits the city and its citizens.

i think the behind the scenes polls that the chamber has show that this will pass "easily"

It’s simple. The city would want that data so they can show voters the potential opportunity loss. When you’re asking for funding towards a $1B arena and you have two main campaign points it would be helpful to illustrate the potential.

But keeping track of shows going elsewhere because of the arena isn't a thing that exists. They could make up a list and show some, but ASM won't have that list anywhere in their system to show OKC. Why can't you get that? The report you want does not exist, anywhere. No matter how much you whine, moan, and kvetch, it isn't something you will get. It doesn't exist.

But keeping track of shows going elsewhere because of the arena isn't a thing that exists. They could make up a list and show some, but ASM won't have that list anywhere in their system to show OKC. Why can't you get that? The report you want does not exist, anywhere. No matter how much you whine, moan, and kvetch, it isn't something you will get. It doesn't exist.

If that’s the case the entire argument loses its validity. It becomes complete hearsay with nothing to back it.

It’s not impossible to hire a consultant and commission a study.

The one thing I’m most curious about is how do we host 2 thunder games a day off in between them with Adam Sandler right in the middle in that open day. All from December 7th to 9th. Or from January 31st to February 3rd three thunder games, Toby Mack and tool. How is any of this possible with the loading docks. Or Katt Williams then the winter jam back to back on march 15th and 16th. I’m all for a new arena if the thunder pay up more money, and there is a guarantee the other half of the advertising revenue goes into off setting the cost of the arena. As well as the city gets rid of those thunder tax cuts so they can pay their fair share.

Voting no will not make them leave they’ll try again with a deal on better terms for the city.. There are like 17 arenas older than paycom in the nba. And 5 that you could maybe consider built in the same era along with 7 significantly newer. Soon to be eight when the new clippers arena opens. Would we really say Houston, San Antonio or Mephis better vote for a new arena. I just can’t believe people are letting fear drive them into shelling out a billion dollars. Wait and a better deal will come.

i think the behind the scenes polls that the chamber has show that this will pass "easily"

^This is probably why there isn’t any data. No need for it in the city’s mind. Why open a “done deal” to any level of scrutiny.

I have to agree with this. If the city wants this to pass easily they should have collected any and all possible data sets that support a new arena. Then package the results that would point the general public, maybe non Thunder fans, towards understanding the advantages of a new arena. Because something isn't normally in the scope of city operations doesn't mean they can't perform that function if it benefits the city and its citizens.

I think the chamber is selling asperastions, not desperation. Thunder is a feel good story that most OKCitians enjoy. The fact we even have them here a win against a bigger, badder city (sorry Seattle) that showed we can compete with anyone (at least that what it felt like). Nobody cares to get embroyled in spreadsheets and duelling authorities when they can envision the glory and attention that would rain down on OKC if we were to win a NBA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. The DREAM and OKCitians' thirst to be relevant and a perceived winner will propell this vote.... not numbers at the bottom of a green and white accounting spreadsheet.

I think the chamber is selling asperastions, not desperation. Thunder is a feel good story that most OKCitians enjoy. The fact we even have them here a win against a bigger, badder city (sorry Seattle) that showed we can compete with anyone (at least that what it felt like). Nobody cares to get embroyled in spreadsheets and duelling authorities when they can envision the glory and attention that would rain down on OKC if we were to win a NBA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. The DREAM and OKCitians' thirst to be relevant and a perceived winner will propell this vote.... not numbers at the bottom of a green and white accounting spreadsheet.

What’s your guess on the final results?

I think the chamber is selling asperastions, not desperation. Thunder is a feel good story that most OKCitians enjoy. The fact we even have them here a win against a bigger, badder city (sorry Seattle) that showed we can compete with anyone (at least that what it felt like). Nobody cares to get embroyled in spreadsheets and duelling authorities when they can envision the glory and attention that would rain down on OKC if we were to win a NBA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. The DREAM and OKCitians' thirst to be relevant and a perceived winner will propell this vote.... not numbers at the bottom of a green and white accounting spreadsheet.

And it's exactly the proof that this city has not taken the next step forward. We're uneducated and willing to sell our souls for sports ball. A bit more education helps you look at that spreadsheet and easily come to the conclusion that a 2 year delay could save the as city AND the owners money...yet here we are reinforcing our reality.

Some bank is going to make a nice profit on this city's inability to see it's inherent worth and we'll have to dig deeper in our pockets and wait longer to take that next step to be a Tier II city.

And it's exactly the proof that this city has not taken the next step forward. We're uneducated and willing to sell our souls for sports ball. A bit more education helps you look at that spreadsheet and easily come to the conclusion that a 2 year delay could save the as city AND the owners money...yet here we are reinforcing our reality.

Some bank is going to make a nice profit on this city's inability to see it's inherent worth and we'll have to dig deeper in our pockets and wait longer to take that next step to be a Tier II city.

Meh, better than the city having to bear the weight of having lost a stolen team. Losing the Thunder will lose so much cache for OKC, and they may never fully recover it. Cost-benefit. Just my opinion.

And when are you truly thinking they are going to start building?

What’s your guess on the final results?

56-44 or better (but all that matters is that it is 50% +1 vote)

The one thing I’m most curious about is how do we host 2 thunder games a day off in between them with Adam Sandler right in the middle in that open day. All from December 7th to 9th. Or from January 31st to February 3rd three thunder games, Toby Mack and tool. How is any of this possible with the loading docks. Or Katt Williams then the winter jam back to back on march 15th and 16th. I’m all for a new arena if the thunder pay up more money, and there is a guarantee the other half of the advertising revenue goes into off setting the cost of the arena. As well as the city gets rid of those thunder tax cuts so they can pay their fair share.

Voting no will not make them leave they’ll try again with a deal on better terms for the city.. There are like 17 arenas older than paycom in the nba. And 5 that you could maybe consider built in the same era along with 7 significantly newer. Soon to be eight when the new clippers arena opens. Would we really say Houston, San Antonio or Mephis better vote for a new arena. I just can’t believe people are letting fear drive them into shelling out a billion dollars. Wait and a better deal will come.

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

Is there any stats on the size comparison for Paycom vs. BOK center or Paycom vs. comparable arenas? Specifically for the loading docks.

It’s a shame that we’re missing out on 7-9 major concerts per year and the economic impact that could drive. Guessing that could be millions of dollars per year. However, it appears as though we have a sizable amount underutilized space to the southeast fronting OKC blvd. is there a reason the city can’t incorporate that as part of the loading/unloading footprint?

The one thing I’m most curious about is how do we host 2 thunder games a day off in between them with Adam Sandler right in the middle in that open day. All from December 7th to 9th. Or from January 31st to February 3rd three thunder games, Toby Mack and tool. How is any of this possible with the loading docks. Or Katt Williams then the winter jam back to back on march 15th and 16th. I’m all for a new arena if the thunder pay up more money, and there is a guarantee the other half of the advertising revenue goes into off setting the cost of the arena. As well as the city gets rid of those thunder tax cuts so they can pay their fair share. ...

Thunder equipment and flooring is already in the arena and just needs to be taken up/put down. Stand up comedians have almost no equipment requirements, just them and a stool/chair/whatever, nowhere close to a major show requiring 4-5 (or more) semi trailers worth of gear. Back-to-back concerts/big shows is the issue, not Thunder game/show/Thunder game or stand-up/Thunder/stand-up or something similar...

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

Of course it would. Please do not think I am being disrespectful or dismissive when I type "I acknowledge what you are saying, I just do not agree".

I have followed sports leagues business and franchise movement for over 50 years. Pathetic, I know. But here is what I have observed....when I type "mayor" it is short for elected city government.

Mayors who keep teams get reelected.

Mayors who lose teams don't get reelected.

City histories never complain about retaining a team, or the cost involved.

City histories never forgive losing a team, regardless of the negotiations involved.

Of course it would. Please do not think I am being disrespectful or dismissive when I type "I acknowledge what you are saying, I just do not agree".

I have followed sports leagues business and franchise movement for over 50 years. Pathetic, I know. But here is what I have observed....when I type "mayor" it is short for elected city government.

Mayors who keep teams get reelected.

Mayors who lose teams don't get reelected.

City histories never complain about retaining a team, or the cost involved.

City histories never forgive losing a team, regardless of the negotiations involved.

I agree with you on that point. Mayor Holt is doing everything he can to keep the Thunder in OKC. Including pushing one of the most one-sided sports arena deals ever. I believe his hands are tied and this is what it’ll take to keep the team in OKC.

thunder games don't require the load docks or event (the temp event) storage at all ..


keep in mind that all of the buildings that opened from (lets just use 1994) except NOLA where built state of the art for the NBA and for the most part are massive in size ..

memphis is getting ready to do a gov funded 550mil +/- renovation of their building .. (if the peake was built on a bigger space / footprint this would be an option for us)
MSG recenly had a renovation that cost more then our new arena will
philly is getting a new arena
boston got a 100mil renovation

atlanta just had a mulit hundred mil renovation (again not an option for OKC)
spurs are getting a new arena soon

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

Katt Williams is not a big show. It is a comedy set up, which won't require a ton of trucks and loading/unloading.

Here's what I know...I'm getting a brand new, "State Of The Art" arena for Not A Penny More than I'm already paying!

I can't buy a new car or house for not a penny more than I'm already paying. And I darn sure couldn't do it with a 20 year old trade in.

I think our city and county elected officials enjoy strong support because they have shown the ability to live up to the trust we have given them. Seems that everyone involved in the arena plan from the city and Thunder are life long Oklahoma Cityans who know and trust each other, and want to arrive at a fair result for all involved. I know that is why I voted for my City Councilor and Mayor.

"Not A Penny More Than You're Already Paying". Sounds like a winning slogan to me.

True, as was pointed out a $900+ million arena which could cost more--we're going to need a new arena with specifications to accommodate NBA and concerts as well as other events..

MAPS was envisioned by former Mayor Ron Norick triggered by the lost of a United Airlines Maintenance facility opportunity, MAPS is credited with keeping AAA baseball in OKC with the construction of the Bricktown Ballpark; also the Downtown arena which allowed our city a test run of the NBA by providing a temporary home for the New Orleans (Hornets) Pelicans. Oklahoma City had a population of 1.2 million in 2000 prior to our test run of the Hornets and the eventual relocation of the Supersonics purchased by a group of
Oklahoma businessmen who felt our city was ripe for Big League sports franchise in our state.

This is about a competitive 'Quality of Life' crown jewel facility in our city.

Let's build an arena that will meet the specifications of the NBA; while we are at it, build an arena that will be a Top Ten NBA venue.

Can you articulate exactly what prevents OKC from getting back 2 back concerts? Initially my understanding was we missed out on nights that larger artist might come to the Paycom due to the loading docks not being able to facilitate that quick of a turn around. Now it’s jumped to we’re missing out in general but the NBA games have little to no impact on that per a previous comment. So somethings not adding up here and it’s starting to sound like a bunch of biased opinions without any factual information backing the claims. As this narrative grows the opinions are starting to incorporate watching out of a window and relatives in the industry. I’m just curious if anyone has anything factual from a city representative?

You seem to be dismissive of any information you don’t provide. So why keep trying to tell you? “Family Members” with extensive, relevant and factual information vs cherry picked repetitive negative opinion. There is no information some will consider unless their opinion agrees with it. There are relatively very few negative posters here, but by heavens they are persistent. Lol.

Explain the katt Williams and winter jam back to back to dates if the loading docks are problem how can they have two different events like this back to back. The fact is do you think the thunder will have one of the 10 worst arenas in the nba before 2026? We can wait and the fact the thunder already approved a $116 million renovation with maps 4 obviously all of it will not be completed due to $70 mil being held back. But let’s stop acting like paycom is a dump and we must throw down 900 billion tomorrow or the thunder will be gone. Look at Salt Lake City or New Orleans do you think their arenas are not nba level and in desperate need of replacement or the team will leave. The fact is as a city we can wait voting no will not make the team leave and we honestly need better leadership from local officials in getting a better deal. Especially considering they cannot wait until the next maps expires then use cash NOT financing to build the new arena. A lot of people are about to get rich because a sizable portion of the city is voting in fear.

Use your brain. You don’t get out much if you think Katt Williams or Adam Sandler equate to a large scale concert in terms of equipment.

if you don’t care about the Thunder, that’s fine but you are absolutely okay with the potential of them leaving if you vote no here. There’s no guarantee of a second chance and continuing a penny sales tax for a few years will have no tangible negative impact on your life.

You seem to be dismissive of any information you don’t provide. So why keep trying to tell you? “Family Members” with extensive, relevant and factual information vs cherry picked repetitive negative opinion. There is no information some will consider unless their opinion agrees with it. There are relatively very few negative posters here, but by heavens they are persistent. Lol.

I can appreciate personal viewpoints and opinions. However, this argument is now being used to support funding for a new arena. I asked if anyone had real data or factual information from the city to support these claims. It sounds like there is nothing outside of personal experiences that exists.

You don’t have any information of substance and neither does anyone else to this point. So your argument resorts to stating I don’t want to listen to your personal experiences… I’m more than willing to change my opinion when somebody says here are some examples of concerts we’ve missed on and it’s a problem because the city losses out on an opportunity for $x,xxx,xxx or here is a typical loading dock layout compared to the Paycom or we can’t expand our current load/unload footprint to due these (insert example) hurdles.

It comes off as a problem the city doesn’t want to address so it can be used as leverage for $900M in funding. I apologize directly to you if that reasoning comes off as negative and disagreeable.

It will cost at least $900M+ more than you’ve paid right now. The sales tax will continue and there will be interest costs associated with a loan.

That reasoning would be similar to a car salesman when they ask you about monthly payment target vs. the price of the car.

except it also needs to be said that 30-40% of your "car" will be paid for completly by someone else (non okc residents )

Including pushing one of the most one-sided sports arena deals ever..

this part is simply not true

Use your brain. You don’t get out much if you think Katt Williams or Adam Sandler equate to a large scale concert in terms of equipment.

if you don’t care about the Thunder, that’s fine but you are absolutely okay with the potential of them leaving if you vote no here. There’s no guarantee of a second chance and continuing a penny sales tax for a few years will have no tangible negative impact on your life.

Its not that I don't care about the thunder. I care more about the city getting a better deal than the current one on the ballot. Which is pretty trash especially considering we really do not need to accumulate debt to pay for this arena. So would it really be a bad thing if this ballot measure failed and they tried again in a year with better terms for the city. There is a massive lack of info and well its insulting for the city to say vote on this $900 million tax extention with such little information. When the fact is they could propose another maps that focuses on quality of life, public transportation education. Show me a state, city or country that spent too much on education.

You ever go to Singapore and think "man this country is trash because they spent all this money on public transportation and education." So even if they wait until say 2026 for a new vote then that's fine we have all the time in the world and there is no reason to rush to hurry up and sign for funding a new arena when leadership just isn't giving the people enough details. Voting no would give us time and I also think it might be a wake up call to the city council to actually put in effort. This current deal is insulting and it shows how much they think of the people of okc that they put the vote in December and they are basically saying "vote yes for back to back concerts and this is really the best deal the thunder could give us." People really shouldn't let the fear of the thunder leaving rope the city into tying up this sales tax for so long.

I'm old enough to admit I don't know what I don't know.

But I do know we will never know what a good deal vs a bad deal is on an arena lease with a major sports team. Scores of lawyers who make thousands of dollars per billable hour are working to make sure the team gets what they want. We either work with mutual trust or we don't.

I'm old enough to admit I don't know what I don't know.

But I do know we will never know what a good deal vs a bad deal is on an arena lease with a major sports team. Scores of lawyers who make thousands of dollars per billable hour are working to make sure the team gets what they want. We either work with mutual trust or we don't.

Two things can be true at the same time. The Thunder can get what they want and the city can get what they need.

I don’t believe any lawyers are negotiating any contract at this time as there is nothing to negotiate until a new arena is improved.

Two things can be true at the same time. The Thunder can get what they want and the city can get what they need.

I don’t believe any lawyers are negotiating any contract at this time as there is nothing to negotiate until a new arena is improved.

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

I thought I had seen where they indicated the new lease would essentially be the same terms as the current one with changes in certain lease rates.

Its not that I don't care about the thunder. I care more about the city getting a better deal than the current one on the ballot. Which is pretty trash especially considering we really do not need to accumulate debt to pay for this arena. So would it really be a bad thing if this ballot measure failed and they tried again in a year with better terms for the city. There is a massive lack of info and well its insulting for the city to say vote on this $900 million tax extention with such little information. When the fact is they could propose another maps that focuses on quality of life, public transportation education. Show me a state, city or country that spent too much on education.

You ever go to Singapore and think "man this country is trash because they spent all this money on public transportation and education." So even if they wait until say 2026 for a new vote then that's fine we have all the time in the world and there is no reason to rush to hurry up and sign for funding a new arena when leadership just isn't giving the people enough details. Voting no would give us time and I also think it might be a wake up call to the city council to actually put in effort. This current deal is insulting and it shows how much they think of the people of okc that they put the vote in December and they are basically saying "vote yes for back to back concerts and this is really the best deal the thunder could give us." People really shouldn't let the fear of the thunder leaving rope the city into tying up this sales tax for so long.

It’s not fear…it’s viewing it realistically. If the arena is approved, in all likelihood they will be in OKC for the next 25-30 years barring unforeseen circumstances like an irreversible economic downtown for the city or something like that. The arena doesn’t get approved? The conversation about them relocating starts nationally and while we may get another shot at it…you don’t know that we will…no one does. You also don’t know if it being rejected will end up resulting in a better deal for the city…you just assume it will. A no vote means you are okay with them potentially leaving and there’s no disputing that. Again, for what amounts to paying and charging visitors the same tax we’ve had since 1993 for a few more years…that’s not a hill I’m willing to die on…especially to fast track public transit that few will use (and no one has said that this is an either or situation anyway).

It’s hard to describe what the Thunder has meant to my generation and younger here, maybe some people just don’t get it and thats why they’re okay with potentially losing the team. You’re right…no one says Singapore sucks because they spent money on public transit…but many people, especially internationally, wouldn’t even know that OKC exists without the Thunder.

I’d be really interested to know the age demographics of those here who are for or against the arena and how long everyone has been in Oklahoma and/or OKC.

An OKC Talk poll would be intriguing. However, people participating on this board are way more civic-aware of what is happening in OKC. So they would likely be more motivated to go vote. Meanwhile the loud social media people saying the team should fund their own arena, may not even know when the vote is taking place.

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

we already know the answer to these questions and it is no per the mayor the new lease with the team will substantially the same as the existing lease

I thought I had seen where they indicated the new lease would essentially be the same terms as the current one with changes in certain lease rates.

correct per the mayor

I'm guessing they have a verbal understanding of general parameters.

Is the Thunder the controlling Tenant? If so, will they---

Get $ from every event?

Get $ from every ticket?

Get $ from every F&B sale?

Get $ from all parking?

Get $ from every retail sale inside the facility?

Will the Thunder own and control all signage? And will the Thunder get $ from signage at every event?

Those are they type items that help decide if the city is getting a "good" or "bad" deal, IMO.

So does the current lease gift the Thunder with these revenues?

So does the current lease gift the Thunder with these revenues?

I am sure it does for Thunder games. Why should the city make anything beyond sales tax on Thunder goods (t-shirts, hats, jerseys, etc.)?

Now, I am not 100% sure on stuff like parking or food and beverages (I just don't know). I would think for non-Thunder events, they get ugatz, and a split on Thunder games (not for parking).

According to Marquette School of Law's lease summary here is the Thunder's rights to revenue under the current lease (non-Thunder events revenue in bold):


Revenue Sources
Tickets
Thunder receive game day revenues attributable to home games of net revenues from ticket
sales. – Sect. 1(a), pg. 2
Concessions
For Team Events the Thunder receive: 40% of sales of the first $2.5 million; 42.5% of sales
between $2.5 million to $5 million; and 45% of sales exceeding $5 million in any Operating
Year. – Sect. 1(c)(i), pg. 2
For Clubs and Restaurants, including Courtside Seating for Team Events only, the Thunder
receive 10% of sales and 15% of sales from bars. – Sect. 1(c)(iii), pg. 2
Advertising
Thunder receive game day revenues attributable to home games of net revenues from
advertising. – Sect. 8.1, pg. 40
Naming Rights
Thunder will have the exclusive right to sell naming rights and permanent advertising for the
Arena less annual payments to the City that replace existing revenues the City receives from
Arena naming Rights. The Thunder will also have the exclusive right to sell naming rights and
advertising for the Practice Facility. – Sect. 8.3, pg. 41
Luxury/Premium Seating
For All Events the Thunder receive: 25% of sales for the first $1.25 million; 27.5% of sales
between $1.25 million to $1.75 million; and 30% of sales exceeding $1.75 million in any
Operating Year. – Sect. 1(c)(ii), pg. 2
Novelty and Merchandising Items
Thunder receive game day revenues attributable to home games of net revenues from
merchandising and sponsorships.

So, most of the revenue they received related to facility is tied to game days. Their use of the arena is limited to game day activities and use of Thunder specific facilities. If they want to use it beyond that, they need to give notice to the operator of the arena.

Essentially, if these terms are accurate and in fact would reman the same, they are very different than with many of the arenas that have been used for comparison here.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/lease-summary-oklahoma-city-thunder.pdf

According to Marquette School of Law's lease summary here is the Thunder's rights to revenue under the current lease (non-Thunder events revenue in bold):



So, most of their revenue they received related to facility is tied to game days. Their use of the arena is limited to game day activities and use of Thunder specific facilities. If they want to use it beyond that, they need to give notice to the operator of the arena.

Essentially, if these terms are accurate and in fact would reman the same, they are very different than with many of the arenas that have been used for comparison here.

and the thunder pay rent and use fees for every game

18445

18445

This is going above my head. What are you saying here?

According to Marquette School of Law's lease summary here is the Thunder's rights to revenue under the current lease (non-Thunder events revenue in bold):



So, most of the revenue they received related to facility is tied to game days. Their use of the arena is limited to game day activities and use of Thunder specific facilities. If they want to use it beyond that, they need to give notice to the operator of the arena.

Essentially, if these terms are accurate and in fact would reman the same, they are very different than with many of the arenas that have been used for comparison here.

https://law.marquette.edu/assets/sports-law/pdf/lease-summary-oklahoma-city-thunder.pdf

These are also zero risk to the Thunder. Getting % of sale is 100% profit with no exposure to cost and exposes the city to operational loss (which apparently we are incurring per Pete's research) especially given that those numbers were determined long before inflation became more than a rounding error in costs.

Hopefully theresholds go up substantially or the Thunder's percentage of sales goes down some.

These are also zero risk to the Thunder. Getting % of sale is 100% profit with no exposure to cost and exposes the city to operational loss (which apparently we are incurring per Pete's research)

Just trying to provide some information and context.

And sure, any entity operating a facility is exposed to potential operational losses.

What was the city's net operating profit from the arena before it had a tenant?

Getting % of sale is 100% profit

this is not accurate .. the reason the thunder get a % of the premium seating all year round is that they sell those tickets

this is not accurate .. the reason the thunder get a % of the premium seating all year round is that they sell those tickets

They bear zero cost of operation

These are also zero risk to the Thunder. Getting % of sale is 100% profit with no exposure to cost and exposes the city to operational loss (which apparently we are incurring per Pete's research) especially given that those numbers were determined long before inflation became more than a rounding error in costs.

Hopefully theresholds go up substantially or the Thunder's percentage of sales goes down some.

They only get % of sales on premium/luxury seating. Not whole event, I believe.

They only get % of sales on premium/luxury seating. Not whole event, I believe.

Sorry, I'm not responding with the best contextualization. I realize now that there was a boarder convo about what Thunder receive for nom-Thunder events.


My point is, whenever Thunder receive money from arena operations it's from gross sales, not from net margin.

So relatively speaking, on $1,000,000 of a revenue line item, the Thunder get the exact same amount every time, but the city could profit a lot, little, break even or lose a lot, little.

They bear zero cost of operation

they pay operating expenses every time the use the arena ..

they pay operating expenses every time the use the arena ..

I wouldn't call Thunder Employees operating expenses from an arena management perspective.

this is not accurate .. the reason the thunder get a % of the premium seating all year round is that they sell those tickets

The Thunder get the revenue from non Thunder events because the arena owners gave them this plum in the lease.