What about the OKC citizens (read: voters) that are given tickets at the last minute and still go yet have zero idea there is a vote next month? What about the word-of-mouth that follows? You would think there would be at least one ad/message. In reality, who does know? The "official" Twitter/X account "Keep OKC Big League" has 231 followers; the Instagram account has 160 followers. Outside of Mayor Holt and this platform/organization, not much is being pumped out there.

What's that old saying about "assuming"?

Haven’t seen any TV ads during Thunder games either.

I think the YES campaign is going to start picking up. If you read their website section for getting involved, it kind of entails their basic plans: window/yard signs, booths at events, social media sharing, emailing your employees/customers.

https://www.keepokcbigleague.com/get-involved

What about the OKC citizens (read: voters) that are given tickets at the last minute and still go yet have zero idea there is a vote next month? What about the word-of-mouth that follows? You would think there would be at least one ad/message. In reality, who does know? The "official" Twitter/X account "Keep OKC Big League" has 231 followers; the Instagram account has 160 followers. Outside of Mayor Holt and this platform/organization, not much is being pumped out there.

What's that old saying about "assuming"?
Been in marketing a very long time and done a fair amount of marketing consulting. Based on my experience they wouldn’t focus on an already sold audience, but hit the undecided or unreached audience with saturation at a point much nearer the actual vote. I am sure they are spending time and money on polling and watching sentiment right now so they know when, where and how best to deploy marketing dollars to be most effective. It’s a process.

Haven’t seen any TV ads during Thunder games either.

They announced the vote on the play by play the other day.

I think, if you’re The Chamber and Holt, the process is somewhat similar to dating. If you are a 3 or a 4 on a good day (which is probably a fair rating for the current deal), you can’t try to run the full court press on a complete 10 (the OKC Taxpayers holding the purse strings on 1.6 Billion Dollars).

Finesse, and no small measure of panaché, is absolutely required.

I think, if you’re The Chamber and Holt, the process is somewhat similar to dating. If you are a 3 or a 4 on a good day (which is probably a fair rating for the current deal), you can’t try to run the full court press on a complete 10 (the OKC Taxpayers holding the purse strings on 1.6 Billion Dollars).

Finesse, and no small measure of panaché, is absolutely required.
Huh?

Huh?

Did I stutter?

Lmao!!

Did I stutter?

You didn't stutter. But you also didn't make any sense.

Can you just say your point instead of providing the weird analogy? It truly is confusing.

You didn't stutter. But you also didn't make any sense.

Can you just say your point instead of providing the weird analogy? It truly is confusing.

I think my point is best exhibited by Holt’s recent collaborations with an ice cream store and brewery. I’m sure there will be a “dave” pizza on the menu at Eastside Pizza House, too.

He understands that trying to hard sell the city a **** Sandwich deal, on its merits, is probably not the move amidst this historic and non-transitory inflation.

Rather, he has smartly chosen the Bread and Circuses approach. Definitely a fitting move given the target audience.

I think my point is best exhibited by Holt’s recent collaborations with an ice cream store and brewery. I’m sure there will be a “dave” pizza on the menu at Eastside Pizza House, too.

He understands that trying to hard sell the city a **** Sandwich deal, on its merits, is probably not the move amidst this historic and non-transitory inflation.

Rather, he has smartly chosen the Bread and Circuses approach. Definitely a fitting move given the target audience.

lol more gibberish .. that is also not correct

Is there a reason they aren't running any sort of ads or campaigning for the vote at the Thunder games? I assume there is a reason, but does anyone know?

This is confusing to me, too. The only thing I can think of is that the campaign believes because of it being a special election, there will be a low turnout, and the low turnout vote is a solid "yes". More publicity = more turnout = more likely that it is a close vote.

I think, if you’re The Chamber and Holt, the process is somewhat similar to dating. If you are a 3 or a 4 on a good day (which is probably a fair rating for the current deal), you can’t try to run the full court press on a complete 10 (the OKC Taxpayers holding the purse strings on 1.6 Billion Dollars).

Than again, it's always the 6 that thinks they're a 10 that goes home alone.

This is confusing to me, too. The only thing I can think of is that the campaign believes because of it being a special election, there will be a low turnout, and the low turnout vote is a solid "yes". More publicity = more turnout = more likely that it is a close vote.
There could be something to this. "For" voters are likely to get out. Keep it out of the minds of the "no" voters. Not sure if that's wise but there is some logic there.

This is confusing to me, too. The only thing I can think of is that the campaign believes because of it being a special election, there will be a low turnout, and the low turnout vote is a solid "yes". More publicity = more turnout = more likely that it is a close vote.

Not great for democracy in general if your strategy is to lower turnout as much as possible

Not great for democracy in general if your strategy is to lower turnout as much as possible

I don't want to turn this into a political issue but that has been the Republican strategy for years. :D

Glad to know people here think the absolute worst of Mayor Holt and OKC. Just means I can now place a bias on everything you say.

I think my point is best exhibited by Holt’s recent collaborations with an ice cream store and brewery. I’m sure there will be a “dave” pizza on the menu at Eastside Pizza House, too.

He understands that trying to hard sell the city a **** Sandwich deal, on its merits, is probably not the move amidst this historic and non-transitory inflation.

Rather, he has smartly chosen the Bread and Circuses approach. Definitely a fitting move given the target audience.
Wow. Just wow.

Wow. Just wow.

Feel free to address the merits, Chief.

And, while we’re on the topic of Holt, why hasn’t he produced the study supporting his claim that home games generate $600 Million/yr in annual economic impact?

That’s a pretty different number from the number the City claimed just a couple years ago (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2018/08/11/how-10-years-of-thunder-basketball-has-helped-shape-oklahoma-city/60508289007/).

Seems like Holt is lying? But who cares since he’s such a cool guy and has a beer collabo, right?

I think my point is best exhibited by Holt’s recent collaborations with an ice cream store and brewery. I’m sure there will be a “dave” pizza on the menu at Eastside Pizza House, too.

He understands that trying to hard sell the city a **** Sandwich deal, on its merits, is probably not the move amidst this historic and non-transitory inflation.

Rather, he has smartly chosen the Bread and Circuses approach. Definitely a fitting move given the target audience.

It’s pretty cringe

I hope the first event they put on at the new arena is an OKCTalk contributor's debate. I'd pay to watch that. Guaranteed sell-out!

Feel free to address the merits, Chief.

And, while we’re on the topic of Holt, why hasn’t he produced the study supporting his claim that home games generate $600 Million/yr in annual economic impact?

That’s a pretty different number from the number the City claimed just a couple years ago (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2018/08/11/how-10-years-of-thunder-basketball-has-helped-shape-oklahoma-city/60508289007/).

Seems like Holt is lying? But who cares since he’s such a cool guy and has a beer collabo, right?

Where on earth did he claim each year, the Thunder generated $600 million per year? If he said that, it was obviously a mistake, and nothijg more. That's $15 mill per home game, and I have never heard him say that.

Do you mean where he said they have generated that since coming here?

https://news.yahoo.com/clock-ticking-okc-mayor-pushing-113000238.html

Where on earth did he claim each year, the Thunder generated $600 million per year? If he said that, it was obviously a mistake, and nothijg more. That's $15 mill per home game, and I have never heard him say that.

Do you mean where he said they have generated that since coming here?

https://news.yahoo.com/clock-ticking-okc-mayor-pushing-113000238.html

“One economic impact study pegs the direct annual economic impact of the Thunder at $600M and 3,000 jobs, according to Mayor Holt.“

Source: https://kfor.com/news/local/okc-mayor-pushing-for-new-multi-million-dollar-nba-arena-could-cost-900m/amp/

“ @Jeff Porter This is false. The markets our size (New Orleans and Memphis) received zero team contribution. You’re proposing to walk away from 30 years of $600M of annual economic impact. We have to keep our eyes on the big picture . . .”

Source: Facebook on October 14

Glad to know people here think the absolute worst of Mayor Holt and OKC. Just means I can now place a bias on everything you say.

it makes it nice

$15 million per game "economic impact" is probably right. Quick math puts $15 million divided by 18,000 attendance at $833 per person. Figure $200 direct spend and you only need to trickle $633 over 5 or 5 change of hands of the dollar. Pretty legit for the metric.

“One economic impact study pegs the direct annual economic impact of the Thunder at $600M and 3,000 jobs, according to Mayor Holt.“

Source: https://kfor.com/news/local/okc-mayor-pushing-for-new-multi-million-dollar-nba-arena-could-cost-900m/amp/

“ @Jeff Porter This is false. The markets our size (New Orleans and Memphis) received zero team contribution. You’re proposing to walk away from 30 years of $600M of annual economic impact. We have to keep our eyes on the big picture . . .”

Source: Facebook on October 14

So a typo, I would presume. Unless he has another study he was using, which includes all ancillary incomes, as well (sales tax, restaurant, hotels, etc). I don't know.

But I lean towards the former, and I doubt he was just lying. But again, the fact you flat out called him a liar shows your bias in the situation. We know which way you will be voting.

He may have mistyped that, or maybe there is something we haven't seen that shows that number. I don't think he would just lie through his teeth.

So a typo, I would presume. Unless he has another study he was using, which includes all ancillary incomes, as well (sales tax, restaurant, hotels, etc). I don't know.

But I lean towards the former, and I doubt he was just lying. But again, the fact you flat out called him a liar shows your bias in the situation. We know which way you will be voting.

He may have mistyped that, or maybe there is something we haven't seen that shows that number. I don't think he would just lie through his teeth.

Definitely not a typo. Looks like he decided to 10x the City’s 2018 economic impact numbers.

“@Shane M R-h We are big league today. I think a top tier arena can certainly expand some aspects of our economy, but in many ways it is maintaining our status. No arena, no team, no big league status. Away goes $600M a year in direct economic impact . . .”

I think my point is best exhibited by Holt’s recent collaborations with an ice cream store and brewery. I’m sure there will be a “dave” pizza on the menu at Eastside Pizza House, too.

He understands that trying to hard sell the city a **** Sandwich deal, on its merits, is probably not the move amidst this historic and non-transitory inflation.

Rather, he has smartly chosen the Bread and Circuses approach. Definitely a fitting move given the target audience.

April, for us to understand your "point" you'd have to have been making a point. Your first comment literally doesn't make sense.

As to your second post, the one about "bread and circuses", I'm pretty sure that Mayor Holt makes it his full time job to market himself to the community. His high level of activity with local businesses happens year round, even in non-campaign years. As someone else mentioned this is not his first time having his name/identity tied into a local beer/brewery. Also, when the local ice cream shop sells Holt ice cream or whatever, and he posts about it on his social media, they are driving eyeballs to their brand just as much to his.

If I understand your conspiracy (admittedly I may not as your writing is confusing af) I *think* you're implying that Mayor Holt is doing extra non-Thunder activities/posts to distract the voting public from the impending vote. Should I assume that if Holt was saturating your social feeds with an aggressive push for the arena, instead of ice cream, you'd criticize that too?

Definitely not a typo. Looks like he decided to 10x the City’s 2018 economic impact numbers.

“@Shane M R-h We are big league today. I think a top tier arena can certainly expand some aspects of our economy, but in many ways it is maintaining our status. No arena, no team, no big league status. Away goes $600M a year in direct economic impact . . .”

Like I said, there is obviously something he has showing a $600 million true impact. Like Dob said above. We get it, you think the worst in Holt.

In case anyone cares; from Steve's chat:

Question: From the post is September about the new arena:

"One economic impact study pegs the direct annual economic impact of the Thunder at $600 million and 3,000 jobs."

OKC VeloCity | Mayor Holt announces plan to build arena without tax increase, extending agreement with Thunder beyond 2050 (velocityokc.com)

I have heard that number over and over, but never saw the study of the direct economic impact of $600 million. Can you site which study that was?


Answer: That is from a preliminary study conducted by the Thunder. The chamber commissioned a study that is currently underway and will be released this month.

Ah, a Chamber of Commerce commissioned study, truly the pinnacle of unbiased, fairly calculated economic value (https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.14.3.95).

Keep in mind, those studies are authored by a consultancy under contract and not subjected to peer review. Those studies have been shown to overinflate benefits (https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2020/09/18/stadium-generated-fewer-than-a-quarter-of-projected-construction-jobs/), understate costs (https://www.investigativepost.org/2021/12/13/little-economic-benefit-from-new-stadium/)and not transparently show their methodology. It's more like promotional literature rather than an actual economic study, numerous of which show that those numbers don't stand up to scrutiny. (https://hcapps.holycross.edu/hcs/RePEc/fek/Session03.3-Bradbury.pdf)

Ah, a Chamber of Commerce commissioned study, truly the pinnacle of unbiased, fairly calculated economic value (https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.14.3.95).

Keep in mind, those studies are authored by a consultancy under contract and not subjected to peer review. Those studies have been shown to overinflate benefits (https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2020/09/18/stadium-generated-fewer-than-a-quarter-of-projected-construction-jobs/), understate costs (https://www.investigativepost.org/2021/12/13/little-economic-benefit-from-new-stadium/)and not transparently show their methodology. It's more like promotional literature rather than an actual economic study, numerous of which show that those numbers don't stand up to scrutiny. (https://hcapps.holycross.edu/hcs/RePEc/fek/Session03.3-Bradbury.pdf)

We get it, nothing they show would change your mind. But your favored economists who hate public arenas, you worship them. But if an economist favors public arenas, you bash them. We get it, you're biased.

We get it, nothing they show would change your mind. But your favored economists who hate public arenas, you worship them. But if an economist favors public arenas, you bash them. We get it, you're biased.

If they submitted their work to peer review and showed their models, I would absolutely take their claims seriously. Could you say the same about studies, whose conclusions you disagree with? Or is your own bias blocking your vision?

We get it, nothing they show would change your mind. But your favored economists who hate public arenas, you worship them. But if an economist favors public arenas, you bash them. We get it, you're biased.

Holt claims The City will break even on this deal in two years (his claim assumes $600M/yr. in annual economic impact), which is, quite frankly, one of the most dishonest and laughable claims I’ve ever heard from any politician.

He must really think we’re all idiots. There’s really no other explanation for his behavior.

Holt claims The City will break even on this deal in two years (his claim assumes $600M/yr. in annual economic impact), which is, quite frankly, one of the most dishonest and laughable claims I’ve ever heard from any politician.

He must really think we’re all idiots. There’s really no other explanation for his behavior.

Again, you're biased, so your opinion isn't 100% fair or rational. Thinking the worst of the mayor isn't fair.

But since you keep spewing the same thing over and over again, here is my take. Will it be $600 million to the city directly a year, very likely no. But in terms of economic impact, I think it will break even a lot quicker than anyone thinks. You can't just look at the arena. Look at the hotels around it, cafes and restaurants, shops, etc. People who come to OKC for a game might end up staying in a hotel, eating at a restaurant, go to a mall, etc. All of those count as an impact of the arena, no? Same if OKC gets a concert that Tulsa doesn't get, or people from Lawton want to go to. This is an arena impact, no? I have friends who work at the arena, and they have said it is hard for them to get certain shows at the Paycom, due to a plethora of issues, mostly due to loading and dock issues. Those can't be fixed, based off the arena's design. There are numerous shows that want to come here, but can't make it work logistically. So a new arena built with those issues in mind would get bigger, better concerts and events, leading to more tourism and hotel stays. Maybe not a ton each night, but over the course of 70 or so events a year, yeah, it can add up quick.

Plus, if the Thunder leave (which they will, I have no doubt talks have already been underway), that would put a major damper on much of the growth OKC has had, due to there no longer being a national cache associated with OKC that the Thunder bring. It is impossible to fully measure, hence why I included it last on my list. But that doesn't make it any less true.

Is it a perfect deal? No. But I actually like OKC having control of the arena. Just my opinion.

If they submitted their work to peer review and showed their models, I would absolutely take their claims seriously. Could you say the same about studies, cruise conclusions you disagree with? Or is your own bias blocking your vision?

This. I'm the same was as PoliSciGuy, people get p***ed off at me because I want evidence, I want facts, I want numbers, etc. for a great many things, and many times it was lacking. If the facts show that my prospective decision is wrong, I'll change it. I do a ton of research before almost any major decision (I look up every single candidate's position on every single issue for every single election I vote in, for example). Wanting the facts and numbers and evidence behind something before you decide is not the same thing as biased and it gets really old that people get so angry at others for not just following blindly whatever someone says.

If they submitted their work to peer review and showed their models, I would absolutely take their claims seriously. Could you say the same about studies, whose conclusions you disagree with? Or is your own bias blocking your vision?

I'm not biased. I don't love the proposal, but I know that the owners have us by the short and curly's. We have no leverage, and OKC's national perception isn't great, because of our state. Having the Thunder helps us overcome that, a small bit. Arenas help QOL, and have a better return than Parks do. Hence why Ron Swanson wanted to close the parks before anything else in Parks and Recreation. I know, a sitcom, but from s numbers perspective, they are a money pit. I know that isn't their service, so why should an arena be the only asset that have a positive ROI, in your mind?

I also don't believe the Mayor is scum and lying to us and treating us all like we are dumb. I look forward to seeing the Chamber's analysis.

I know there are a multitude of qualitative things involved in this. They can't be explained in numbers. I want to see some numbers, as well. But I know that there are things numbers won't be able to show for this.

Economic impact of concerts and live entertainment industry in Oklahoma:

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/download/357234

Broader study:

https://www.oxfordeconomics.com/publication/download/357150

I'm not biased. I don't love the proposal, but I know that the owners have us by the short and curly's. We have no leverage, and OKC's national perception isn't great, because of our state. Having the Thunder helps us overcome that, a small bit. Arenas help QOL, and have a better return than Parks do. Hence why Ron Swanson wanted to close the parks before anything else in Parks and Recreation. I know, a sitcom, but from s numbers perspective, they are a money pit. I know that isn't their service, so why should an arena be the only asset that have a positive ROI, in your mind?

I also don't believe the Mayor is scum and lying to us and treating us all like we are dumb. I look forward to seeing the Chamber's analysis.

I know there are a multitude of qualitative things involved in this. They can't be explained in numbers. I want to see some numbers, as well. But I know that there are things numbers won't be able to show for this.
If, as you say, one party has the other at a disadvantage, it often is because they bring more to the negotiations than the other party is willing to bring. OKC certainly has the option to vote no and see where the chips lay. If, as certain posters believe there is no real value to the Thunder, then what does the city lose exactly? Others of us believe the value of the Thunder to the city and its businesses and cititzens is real.

If, as you say, one party has the other at a disadvantage, it often is because they bring more to the negotiations than the other party is willing to bring. OKC certainly has the option to vote no and see where the chips lay. If, as certain posters believe there is no real value to the Thunder, then what does the city lose exactly? Other of us believe the value of the Thunder to the city and its businesses and cititzens is real.

Yeah, but to me, voting no isn't a risk I want to take. The team will be sold, and will do everything in their power to leave, as soon as possible.

Evaluating the Economic Contribution of a Large Indoor Entertainment Venue: An Inscope Expenditure Study (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/269418074_Evaluating_the_Economic_Contribution_of_ a_Large_Indoor_Entertainment_Venue_An_Inscope_Expe nditure_Study)

Yeah, but to me, voting no isn't a risk I want to take. The team will be sold, and will do everything in their power to leave, as soon as possible.

Right, so there is in your mind comperable value. And I agree.

Where the leverage applies is that the Thunder win in ether scenario and the city only wins in one. Thunder may actually profit more from a no vote than a yes.

This is just hilarious reading. You either want the Thunder to be in OKC for an extended period of time or you don't. You either want OKC to break the "cowtown" image and wear big boy pants or you don't. The one guaranty is that if the vote is no and the Thunder move rumors start up, the "no" voters will be the first to cry about how backward OKC is.

Vote no, they'll likely look to leave. There are multiple other cities that will build them a competative home. It's as simple as that.

Does anyone have updated data re polling for this upcoming vote? Normally, I don't engage in social media discourse as it's incredibly toxic, especially when the user goes by a made-up name. On this issue I am breaking that rule and engaging across the board as I sincerely think this vote is the one of the most important votes in the City's recent history.

I'd love to know if it's as close as it appears to be on some social media platforms.

Saw this in the arena last night.

https://i.imgur.com/Thjh17p.jpeg

There has been a lot of talk about the arena not being big enough for concerts and events back to back, but looking at the arena schedule, OKC plays the Hornets on 2/2, Tool plays 2/3 and then OKC plays the Raptors on 2/4. I can't imagine Tool's stage wouldn't be pretty elaborate and it is at the end with 110/111 and no seats available behind it.

There are a few other examples of this (Thunder on 12/27, Jeff Dunham on 12/28, OKC Blue on 12/29; OKC Blue on 12/6, Trans-Siberian on 12/7, Blue on 12/8, Adam Sandler on 12/9, etc). Is the understanding that we would get more concerts in between thunder games with more space or is it just difficult to manage with the amount of space that we have?

And for the record, I am not trolling or trying to start anything, I just genuinely don't know and want to get more info.

I'm glad you brought up the Blue. I can't believe they play at Paycom. I also find it hard to believe that Paycom would turn down a big touring act cause the blue are playing. I hope that doesn't actually happen and they have alternate plans.

I'm glad you brought up the Blue. I can't believe they play at Paycom. I also find it hard to believe that Paycom would turn down a big touring act cause the blue are playing. I hope that doesn't actually happen and they have alternate plans.

They had to be moved to Paycom when the City made the deal with Prairie Surf at the Cox Center.

In fact, the City had to pay to move them there.

I haven’t heard anywhere other than this board that Paycom can’t hold back to back events

There has been a lot of talk about the arena not being big enough for concerts and events back to back, but looking at the arena schedule, OKC plays the Hornets on 2/2, Tool plays 2/3 and then OKC plays the Raptors on 2/4. I can't imagine Tool's stage wouldn't be pretty elaborate and it is at the end with 110/111 and no seats available behind it.

There are a few other examples of this (Thunder on 12/27, Jeff Dunham on 12/28, OKC Blue on 12/29; OKC Blue on 12/6, Trans-Siberian on 12/7, Blue on 12/8, Adam Sandler on 12/9, etc). Is the understanding that we would get more concerts in between thunder games with more space or is it just difficult to manage with the amount of space that we have?

And for the record, I am not trolling or trying to start anything, I just genuinely don't know and want to get more info.

I don't have insider information, but historic observations: My office is in the BancFirst building, and I have a picturesque view of the PCC. I always check the schedule and love to watch the load-in. For small concerts like Jelly Roll, he only had four trucks and two buses, and they backed each in, and parked across the rail viaduct. It took a few hours. For WWE last month, there were at least a dozen trucks and five or six busses, and it took all day to synchronize the trucks. Traffic is backed up on Shields, as they have to back the trucks down a fairly steep ramp.

On a related note, when Taylor Swift played here on the "Speak Now" tour, before I-40 was rebuilt, she had at least 20 trucks, and it took them all day to synchronize, back up the trucks and complete the load-in. Traffic was pretty much shut down on Shields/Gaylord. I remember this distinctly because I was caught in the middle of it, trying to get to my office in Bricktown.

The ramp and truck access to the PCC is definitely a logistics issue.

I don't have insider information, but historic observations: My office is in the BancFirst building, and I have a picturesque view of the PCC. I always check the schedule and love to watch the load-in. For small concerts like Jelly Roll, he only had four trucks and two buses, and they backed each in, and parked across the rail viaduct. It took a few hours. For WWE last month, there were at least a dozen trucks and five or six busses, and it took all day to synchronize the trucks. Traffic is backed up on Shields, as they have to back the trucks down a fairly steep ramp.

On a related note, when Taylor Swift played here on the "Speak Now" tour, before I-40 was rebuilt, she had at least 20 trucks, and it took them all day to synchronize, back up the trucks and complete the load-in. Traffic was pretty much shut down on Shields/Gaylord. I remember this distinctly because I was caught in the middle of it, trying to get to my office in Bricktown.

The ramp and truck access to the PCC is definitely a logistics issue.

I have a brother in logistics for large touring bands and this reflects his comments. PayCom is not designed well for logistics and has no room to make it better.

For anyone who goes there for Thunder, concerts or other events, it is obvious the concourse areas are cramped and limited. It is a basic functioning arena at best, both inside and out. Go to any of the newer big city venues and you will immediately get it.

I have a brother in logistics for large touring bands and this reflects his comments. PayCom is not designed well for logistics and has no room to make it better.

For anyone who goes there for Thunder, concerts or other events, it is obvious the concourse areas are cramped and limited. It is a basic functioning arena at best, both inside and out. Go to any of the newer big city venues and you will immediately get it.

On that note, merchandise sales have huge profit margins for touring artists now. We've come a long way from the basic black concert t-shirt. Many huge bands, like Metallica, Iron Maiden and Pearl Jam make more money off of merch than they do music. Pearl Jam has pop-up shops that set up days before the concert and this specialty retail rakes in big time $. When I saw Maiden at the PCC on the Book of Souls tour, they had merch tables anywhere they could find space. It looked like a flea market. So yeah, larger concourse areas would be greatly needed as more and more artists rely on merch sales to drive revenue.

There has been a lot of talk about the arena not being big enough for concerts and events back to back, but looking at the arena schedule, OKC plays the Hornets on 2/2, Tool plays 2/3 and then OKC plays the Raptors on 2/4. I can't imagine Tool's stage wouldn't be pretty elaborate and it is at the end with 110/111 and no seats available behind it.

There are a few other examples of this (Thunder on 12/27, Jeff Dunham on 12/28, OKC Blue on 12/29; OKC Blue on 12/6, Trans-Siberian on 12/7, Blue on 12/8, Adam Sandler on 12/9, etc). Is the understanding that we would get more concerts in between thunder games with more space or is it just difficult to manage with the amount of space that we have?

And for the record, I am not trolling or trying to start anything, I just genuinely don't know and want to get more info.
Thunder and Blue games don't load out the way concerts do. They definitely don't need the loading docks. Essentially they stack chairs, stack up the floor panels, and roll everything to the bowels of the building. The problem would be having TOOL one night and Luke Combs (or anyone else) the next night. The Thunder as a tenant is surprisingly light on its feet.

If they submitted their work to peer review and showed their models, I would absolutely take their claims seriously. Could you say the same about studies, whose conclusions you disagree with? Or is your own bias blocking your vision?

Kind of like how you take as gospel the opinions of writings who fit your narrative but dismiss stats provided by local governments as "Chamber of Commerce" propaganda? Anything can be peer reviewed if the peers have an agenda to push.

Thunder and Blue games don't load out the way concerts do. They definitely don't need the loading docks. Essentially they stack chairs, stack up the floor panels, and roll everything to the bowels of the building. The problem would be having TOOL one night and Luke Combs (or anyone else) the next night. The Thunder as a tenant is surprisingly light on its feet.

How many nights per year would hosting major back 2 back concerts be a possibility? It’s talked about like it’s a huge problem but what are we really taking about 1-2 concerts every year?

How many nights per year would hosting major back 2 back concerts be a possibility? It’s talked about like it’s a huge problem but what are we really taking about 1-2 concerts every year?
You’re talking many dozens of nights per year that the arena is effectively darkened due to logistics. Mathematically around 50% of the non-Thunder/Blue nights.

You’re talking many dozens of nights per year that the arena is effectively darkened due to logistics. Mathematically around 50% of the non-Thunder/Blue nights.

But how many major concerts are we missing out on? Is that 1-2 per year?

Major concerts have been cited as the primary concern that’s being used as leverage when pushing for a new arena. The larger concerts are the ones that have the logistics issues.

You’ve stated the biggest issue is not being able to support back 2 back large concerts.

But how many major concerts are we missing out on? Is that 1-2 per year?

Major concerts have been cited as the primary concern that’s being used as leverage when pushing for a new arena. The larger concerts are the ones that have the logistics issues.

You’ve stated the biggest issue is not being able to support back 2 back large concerts.

Tons. 1-2? Are you crazy? Look at a venue like the Little Caesars Arena or AAC in Dallas, and then see what OKC isn't getting.

Tons. 1-2? Are you crazy? Look at a venue like the Little Caesars Arena or AAC in Dallas, and then see what OKC isn't getting.

Can you articulate exactly what prevents OKC from getting back 2 back concerts? Initially my understanding was we missed out on nights that larger artist might come to the Paycom due to the loading docks not being able to facilitate that quick of a turn around. Now it’s jumped to we’re missing out in general but the NBA games have little to no impact on that per a previous comment. So somethings not adding up here and it’s starting to sound like a bunch of biased opinions without any factual information backing the claims. As this narrative grows the opinions are starting to incorporate watching out of a window and relatives in the industry. I’m just curious if anyone has anything factual from a city representative?

Can you articulate exactly what prevents OKC from getting back 2 back concerts? Initially my understanding was we missed out on nights that larger artist might come to the Paycom due to the loading docks not being able to facilitate that quick of a turn around. Now it’s jumped to we’re missing out in general but the NBA games have little to no impact on that per a previous comment. So somethings not adding up here and it’s starting to sound like a bunch of biased opinions without any factual information backing the claims. As this narrative grows the opinions are starting to incorporate watching out of a window and relatives in the industry. I’m just curious if anyone has anything factual from a city representative?

there is currently not enough loading dock and storage space (for load/unload) to be able to do it ..