BTW, the current lease at Paycom Center was extended 3 more years in 2022 until 25-26. Mayor Holt mentioned this in the State of the City address.

And hopefully by then the Thunder are really contending again and more people will be encouraged to vote for a new building. Fair or not, some people didn’t love the announcement right after a bad season, even though they don’t know how the nba works, haha!

We have a good ownership group. Valuations of NBA franchises will continue to increase with expansion to 32 teams on the horizon.

If you have been following the Thunder (last 3 years), you probably noticed the improvement of the players and the TEAM PLAY; they are buying into Coach Daigneault's strategy. This is the first time in the 15 years we've supported the Thunder that we have a coach that has the attention, respect and discipline from players.

Notice how attentive the players are during time-outs to Coach Daigneault drawing up the next plays.

Oklahoma City is fortunate to have an NBA franchise. Just have the confidence and feel that our new arena will be among the best in the NBA and tops among small market cities.

There is zero talk about relocating any team, and nobody thinks it will happen. The only talk is about expansion, and the expansion fee is also 10x higher than it was thought to be when the Thunder came to be.

Seattle will get an expansion team because they have the money and public sentiment on their side. Also, arena ownership is set up to accommodate an NBA team.

Las Vegas has the NHL Vegas Golden Knights as the anchor tenant at T-Mobile arena. They control about 50 dates a year, plus signage and other facility revenue streams. Add in all the other events at T-Mobile, and try to find the dates and revenue a $3 billion investment NBA team will need? I still think Louisville is more likely.

That $166 million per team expansion money is gonna equal about 2 years of media rights revenue after the new deals are done. After that it reduces each teams revenue due to slicing up the pie into more pieces. That reduces the chances of any league expansion.

per about every connect league source expansion will be in seattle and in las vegas (with lebron part of the ownership group) ..

the other thing you are discounting about the expansion fees is that the owners don't have to share that money with the players at all .

the 2 new teams will generate 8 b or so combined ..

No one said it “outsourced” sports betting. What I said—and what the legislation authorizes by creating a new gaming method under a new compact, is tribes issuing licenses to 3rd parties to use the applicable betting platform. I’m not going to force understanding onto you; if you can read and comprehend the legislation, you know what I am saying is correct.

Regardless, if the bill passes, you will like see the Thunder receive a license for mobile/in-arena betting. It is not only a major revenue opportunity for them, but in the view of the Thunder ownership, it is a necessary revenue stream.

I'm guessing King183 is smart enough to know who the guy raising the money for the "secret" governor's mansion is employed by.

per about every connect league source expansion will be in seattle and in las vegas (with lebron part of the ownership group) ..

the other thing you are discounting about the expansion fees is that the owners don't have to share that money with the players at all .

the 2 new teams will generate 8 b or so combined ..

Looks like you read the same sources I do. Most of whom, IMO, are west coast NBA reporters, agents and consultants.

I know Las Vegas is the sexy pick, but I can't make a city of about 2 million people go from zero "Big 4" leagues to 3 or 4 in 10 years. The local push to get the Athletics is pretty far along. And it has to give the NBA league office reason to be very cautious is determining how deep the local ownership, ticket and luxury box market is for the valley. I think Lebron can be a solid asset to any ownership group.

I haven't read about the expansion teams generating 8 billion dollars. Don't see how they can provide that to the league upfront, and I can't figure out how they bring a large enough amount to the league in shared revenue that makes it work.

Looks like you read the same sources I do. Most of whom, IMO, are west coast NBA reporters, agents and consultants.

I know Las Vegas is the sexy pick, but I can't make a city of about 2 million people go from zero "Big 4" leagues to 3 or 4 in 10 years. The local push to get the Athletics is pretty far along. And it has to give the NBA league office reason to be very cautious is determining how deep the local ownership, ticket and luxury box market is for the valley. I think Lebron can be a solid asset to any ownership group.

I haven't read about the expansion teams generating 8 billion dollars. Don't see how they can provide that to the league upfront, and I can't figure out how they bring a large enough amount to the league in shared revenue that makes it work.

bill simmons who has been correct in about every nba team sale / purchase price and is a boston guy that now lives in LA is as plugged in as anyone on NBA expansion

thinks it will be over 3 for vegas and 3.5+ for seattle 6.5-8 billion total in expansion fees ..

and owners like cuban don't want to expand ... but lots of owners will be very happy to take the 215-265 million dollar check ..

the new tv deal is going to be massive .. and the new teams may or may not get a full share right away

bill simmons who has been correct in about every nba team sale / purchase price and is a boston guy that now lives in LA is as plugged in as anyone on NBA expansion

thinks it will be over 3 for vegas and 3.5+ for seattle 6.5-8 billion total in expansion fees ..

and owners like cuban don't want to expand ... but lots of owners will be very happy to take the 215-265 million dollar check ..

the new tv deal is going to be massive .. and the new teams may or may not get a full share right away

Bill Simmons knows his stuff. He is NBA first and foremost. But, I think everyone is speculating at this point.

Are there any other arenas they visited?

You can be sure that the team itself has visited and taken notes on not just every relevant NBA arena, but other recently-built sports stadiums. As for a joint visit with city officials, I'm only aware of that publicly-documented trip. I do know several City folks who have been to other NBA arenas for a variety of reasons, and again, I'm certain they were taking notes. But to reiterate, I'm not in the inner sanctum on this topic, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Just piecing together general things that have been said in various unrelated meetings with people who ARE involved, both directly and tangentially, combined with what's been covered in the media.

I do think it is worth noting that Milwaukee's arena (2018) cost a reported $1.2 billion. Other fairly recent buildings include Sacramento's (2016), which cost a reported $558 million, the Pistons (2017) at $863 million, Golden Sate (2019) at $1.8 billion, and Brooklyn (2012) at $1.18 billion. Clearly we have a few advantages, including existing land (though it won't be cheap to clear) and a less expensive labor market than most. But our building will also be brought online more than a decade after any of these; in Brooklyn's case nearly TWO decades. And again, there will almost certainly be significant mixed-use bells and whistles OUTSIDE of the building, which is the latest trend in the sports business. Expecting this project to come in at $600 or $700 million is almost certainly a flight of fancy.

I do think it is worth noting that Milwaukee's arena (2018) cost a reported $1.2 billion..

not sure why that number is listed on wiki

Fiserv Forum cost 524 million dollars

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/2021/07/28/clear-eyed-public-investment-milwaukee-bucks-helped-net-nba-title/5384338001/

.


Hoops wire October 6, 2022:


Per Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN, the idea of expansion teams in Seattle and Las Vegas remains is likely still “years away” from becoming a reality. Per Wojnarowski, the NBA is focused on the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, as well as new media rights deals, and will make those things a priority before considering expansion.

NBA Expansion Into Seattle, Las Vegas Likely Years Away: https://hoopswire.com/nba-expansion-into-seattle-las-vegas-likely-years-away/

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Yep. And still, built in 2018. OKC’s next building would likely open close to 2030, at best. Even that timeline would require some mountains be moved.

There’s a new NBA CBA due in 2024, and a new television deal in 2025. Either or both could significantly change the economy for owners, for better or worse. They are going to build in any revenue stream they can possibly think of. It’s sure to include Thunder-controlled mixed use, outside of the arena proper. That’s the new frontier in the NBA (and sports in general).

And who knows how much inflation, materials and labor cost changes - and on, and on - will affect costs on a building to be completed nearly a decade from now. Demolition of the old Myriad won’t be free, either.

This building is going to be close to a billion dollars. You can take that to the bank.

Yeah 2018 was pre-pandemic inflation too. Construction costs have basically doubled.

It's going to get built, and it will be world class. $1B+. OKC (mostly through MAPS) now has a 30 year track record of getting things done.

The Thunder are going absolutely no where. The ownership group is OKC based sans Kaiser (but Tulsa can't support an NBA team) and is committed to OKC and OK a whole. They are very aware of the status symbol of being a pro sports town and state, something Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico will never be.

Holt is not a mayor that thinks small, he and the chamber of commerce will plan big.

The backroom deals to get the sausage made will make anyone who cares about Govt Accountability furious, but that's simply the only way to get things actually done.

It will be incredible when it opens, and continue to be part of the fuel that drives OKC forward.

not sure why that number is listed on wiki

Fiserv Forum cost 524 million dollars

https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/2021/07/28/clear-eyed-public-investment-milwaukee-bucks-helped-net-nba-title/5384338001/

WIth a lot of the newer arenas being part of a larger entertainment "district" development, I wonder if there are often different cost listings, some using the cost of the arena itself, and others listing the cost of the entire development. I haven't seen anything that specifically separates out the two, just specuflating.

I also wonder when people post their imaginary numbers here, if they are talking about just the arena or an entire imagined development of what could surround the arena, as well.

They are very aware of the status symbol of being a pro sports town and state, something Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico will never be.


Kansas has Sporting KC.

I bet the spot where Paycom is will be the entertainment district by the new arena, or the empty lots between Scissortail and Myriad.

Kansas has Sporting KC.

they play in KC Missouri

I bet the spot where Paycom is will be the entertainment district by the new arena, or the empty lots between Scissortail and Myriad.

more likely the remaining land on the current Cox / Prairie super block

WIth a lot of the newer arenas being part of a larger entertainment "district" development, I wonder if there are often different cost listings, some using the cost of the arena itself, and others listing the cost of the entire development. I haven't seen anything that specifically separates out the two, just specuflating.

I also wonder when people post their imaginary numbers here, if they are talking about just the arena or an entire imagined development of what could surround the arena, as well.

i would bet you are correct .. in this analysis

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO

thank you for the correction i was mistaken ..

Sporting KC plays in Kansas, not MO
The posters who've said Kansas are correct. Sporting KC plays in Children's Mercy Park in Kansas City, Kansas.

It's a big 4 in pro sports.

Soccer might get there and make it a big 5 eventually, but by no measure are they on that same level.

Chase Center (Arena), San Francisco

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2020/10/chase-center-exterior-784x441.jpg

https://img.global.news.samsung.com/global/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Golden-State-Warriors_thumb728.jpg




Broke ground: January 17, 2017
Opened: September 6, 2019
Construction cost: (US$1.48 billion in 2021 dollars[2])

Capacity: NBA - Basketball: 18,064
Concerts: 19,500
Field size: 900,000 sq ft (84,000)

Could OKC build a similar arena on the 4 square block PSM old Myriad site for less than $1 billion. Remember the
city owns this site which has underground parking. The foundation & parking could be reconstructed and reinforced.

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

Got to remember that land acquisition cost in downtown San Francisco is among the highest in the country.

I don't see anyway the arena stays sub $1B

Are you kidding? Please tell me you are. Solely the arena being $1 billion? Bahahahahahaha!

Got to remember that land acquisition cost in downtown San Francisco is among the highest in the country.
The Warriors bought the land in question from Salesforce for about $155 million. You are correct that this would not be required in the case of a new downtown OKC arena on the site of Myriad/PSM. But it fails to account for remediation, demolition and utilities relocation at the site, which are hard costs. Demo will also be made more expensive by the demo of the underground parking, which could not be repurposed in this instance.

The most important variable, however, is time. The Chase Center site was acquired in 2014, and the arena was built in the intervening years and dedicated in 2019. The cost of almost everything has increased greatly since then. Just factoring inflation from 2019 to 2023 would place the price of Chase closer to $1.7B. And the new OKC arena wouldn't be complete until around 2030, at best. So more than a decade after Chase. We'd all be best served by not fantasizing that simply being in Oklahoma will greatly drive down the cost of this building, well below that of similar buildings built a decade or two earlier. The building will almost certainly be $1 billion, quite possibly more.

Are you kidding? Please tell me you are. Solely the arena being $1 billion? Bahahahahahaha!
Bet.

If we build the arena right, meaning we don't skimp on features and functions that will ultimately need to be added at a later date, it's almost certainly going to be more than $1 billion. I have a feeling the city may try to come in below $1 billion when the effort is first announced (e.g., $850 million), but as the project progress, that number will go up.

Bet.

I mean, name the $1 billion ARENAS. Not the surrounding developments, not a new parking garage. Just the arena. I will wait.

The list is maybe 2 or 3. Amd then compare the land cost there with the fact OKC doesn't have to buy land, is dirt-cheap, and has low labor costs.

Personally, IMO you can build something comparable to the SF Chase Center under $1 billion. You have construction companies that would make a low bid just to get a project of this magnitude.

IIFC, inflation on building materials is 14%, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict we will have a State-of-the art NBA arena in downtown Oklahoma City on the 4-square block site with similar specs as the SF Chase Center and Milwaukee's Fiserv Forum for right at $750 million for the arena itself, which includes demolition of the PSM site.

The Fiserv Forum cost $524 million for the arena itself.

Surpassing $1bn isn’t a bad bet at all. If it were a fairly bare arena that is opening this year, $1bn might be a little harder to achieve, but to Urbanized’s point, 2030 is the most realistic “best case” scenario a new arena would open. If we wanted to have an arena like, say, Golden 1 Center in Sacramento, that opened in 2016 at a cost of $558.2m. Adjusting for inflation, that’s roughly $700m today. If inflation were to rise at the same rate as it has since 2016, $558m would come out to roughly $842m in 2030.

Of course, economics are never that cut and dry and there’s other factors (i.e. design trends, construction costs, location etc.) that will certainly change the numbers. Still, I think the prospect of an arena built in 2016 for $558.2m being adjusted to $842m in 2030 shows that on the best timeline, it’s not unreasonable to think an arena alone could carry a $1bn plus price tag without aiming for the lowest bar possible.

I mean, name the $1 billion ARENAS. Not the surrounding developments, not a new parking garage. Just the arena. I will wait.

The list is maybe 2 or 3. Amd then compare the land cost there with the fact OKC doesn't have to buy land, is dirt-cheap, and has low labor costs.
Why all of the qualifiers? Would you like for us to eliminate the cost of the roof, too? Dirt floor maybe?

This arena will 100% have associated extraneous team-controlled development and structured parking. Not a 99% chance, a 100% chance. The revenue streams from attached development is in large part what would be driving the new building. Also, land cost is relative; the land that will almost certainly be utilized here isn't a scraped lot. It will have demo, remediations and utility relocations that will likely be many millions, before the first dirt is turned.

And again I reiterate, it will be built AT LEAST a decade after every arena that has been cited in this thread, and in some cases TWO decades. A random $500 or $600 million building from fifteen to twenty years earlier? Not even worth discussing in this conversation. I'm sorry, it's not. We will frankly all be better off if we take a deep breath, swallow hard and recognize the realities of the year 2030. Tear off the band-aid. The building will be a billion dollars.

Why all of the qualifiers? Would you like for us to eliminate the cost of the roof, too? Dirt floor maybe?

This arena will 100% have associated extraneous team-controlled development and structured parking. Not a 99% chance, a 100% chance. The revenue streams from attached development is in large part what would be driving the new building. Also, land cost is relative; the land that will almost certainly be utilized here isn't a scraped lot. It will have demo, remediations and utility relocations that will likely be many millions, before the first dirt is turned.

And again I reiterate, it will be built AT LEAST a decade after every arena that has been cited in this thread, and in some cases TWO decades. A random $500 or $600 million building from fifteen to twenty years earlier? Not even worth discussing in this conversation. I'm sorry, it's not. We will frankly all be better off if we take a deep breath, swallow hard and recognize the realities of the year 2030. Tear off the band-aid. The building will be a billion dollars.

Why should a separate skyscraper included in the cost of an arena? You said the arena. Not the arena and surrounding private development. OKC is cheap, already owns the and (which is sometimes 15-20% of the cost), has some of the cheapest labor around. Including demo'ing the old Cox Center.

The building will not be. OKC won't allow it, and neither will the owners, who are going to put up some of their money for it. If it does, I will venmo you money for a meal. But I doubt the ARENA structure costs that. Probably more in the $700 million range. It won't be the Chase enter or MSG. The owners are frugal, try to save every dime they can. Why would they splurge for a new arena? Same with OKC itself? They rarely splurge for ANYTHING.

Chase Center’s entrance looks a lot like BOK Center

Why should a separate skyscraper included in the cost of an arena? You said the arena. Not the arena and surrounding private development. OKC is cheap, already owns the and (which is sometimes 15-20% of the cost), has some of the cheapest labor around. Including demo'ing the old Cox Center.

The building will not be. OKC won't allow it, and neither will the owners, who are going to put up some of their money for it. If it does, I will venmo you money for a meal. But I doubt the ARENA structure costs that. Probably more in the $700 million range. It won't be the Chase enter or MSG. The owners are frugal, try to save every dime they can. Why would they splurge for a new arena? Same with OKC itself? They rarely splurge for ANYTHING.

Who said anything about a skyscraper? And why do you keep moving the goalposts and trying to limit discussion to the arena bowl? Literally everyone else in this discussion is talking about the total expense of a project, INCLUDING the discussion around the recently-mentioned San Francisco complex. You don’t get to simply stifle discussion surrounding total project costs.

A billion dollars won’t be a splurge. It will be reality.

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https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/07/15/NOKL/6ebd2483-62f2-42db-8093-dc958e31865b-arena_locations2-01.jpg?width=660&height=497&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

I. Where should Oklahoma City build a new arena capable of supporting NBA in OKC:


1. Former cotton oil mill property
2. Bob Howard parking lots
3. Prairie Surf Studios (City owned)
4. Strawberry Fields
5. Other possible site

II. How much should our City pay for a new arena thru MAPS and/or Bonds:


1. $601 million - $700 million
2. $701 million - $800 million
3. $901 million - $1,000 billion
4. $1,001 billion - 1,100 billion
5. Other possible amount


III. How much should Thunder ownership Professional Basketball Club LLC pay on a new arena:


1. 10%
2. 15%
3. 20%
4. 25%
5. Other possible amount


.

I'll begin with my view:


3. Prairie Surf Studios (City owned--demolition of site, salvage some underground parking)
2. $701 million - $800 million
1. 10%

An allowance for the Thunder--3 years free rent if they chip in !0%. This IMO is fair for a small market city like ours.

I'll begin with my view:


3. Prairie Surf Studios (City owned--demolition of site, salvage some underground parking)
2. $701 million - $800 million
1. 10%

An allowance for the Thunder--3 years free rent if they chip in !0%. This IMO is fair for a small market city like ours.
Those are the same 3 that I would choose.

In a perfect world where we don't need a new arena, I would prefer that the Prairie Surf site be demolished, the grid restored and dense skyscraper development take its place. Extend the "downtown" part of "downtown." Since that's not going to happen, that site becomes the only real alternative for an arena. Strawberry Fields is too far from hotel and entertainment infrastructure and Cotton Mill land, if it's ever going to be built on, needs to be saved for something more comprehensive than an arena. Maybe it's because I'm currently reading Jane Jacobs but I just find that I increasingly hate all these superblocks. On the other questions, I'm with those that can't possibly see this costing under 1 billion and the Thunder really should pay more than 10 percent but that amount is probably realistic.

In a perfect world where we don't need a new arena, I would prefer that the Prairie Surf site be demolished, the grid restored and dense skyscraper development take its place. Extend the "downtown" part of "downtown." Since that's not going to happen, that site becomes the only real alternative for an arena. Strawberry Fields is too far from hotel and entertainment infrastructure and Cotton Mill land, if it's ever going to be built on, needs to be saved for something more comprehensive than an arena. Maybe it's because I'm currently reading Jane Jacobs but I just find that I increasingly hate all these superblocks. On the other questions, I'm with those that can't possibly see this costing under 1 billion and the Thunder really should pay more than 10 percent but that amount is probably realistic.

We were planning for that outcome 15 years ago when I was in the Urban Design Studio at OU. It makes the most sense for the densest new development in the city next to a future commuter rail hub at Santa Fe Depot, and included restoring the street grid.

Question for those advocating to tear down Prairie Surf and build a new arena, what do you do with the current arena? Use it for minor league sports or tear it down too? I feel like there is a way to extensively renovate Paycom without having to build a new arena.

We were planning for that outcome 15 years ago when I was in the Urban Design Studio at OU. It makes the most sense for the densest new development in the city next to a future commuter rail hub at Santa Fe Depot, and included restoring the street grid.

Question for those advocating to tear down Prairie Surf and build a new arena, what do you do with the current arena? Use it for minor league sports or tear it down too? I feel like there is a way to extensively renovate Paycom without having to build a new arena.

It is the smallest arena. By far. It can't have the 200 or 300k square feet needed added on to it. The ability to renovate it is running out. And an extensive renovation is putting a band-aid on a throat slash. It is an arena never meant for these kinds of renovations, and was never designed to be for this purpose. So I am vehemently against a renovation.

Chase Center’s entrance looks a lot like BOK Center

Yeah, from the outside, it's not really that interesting. But the finishes on the inside are really nice and it has some cool features throughout.

We were planning for that outcome 15 years ago when I was in the Urban Design Studio at OU. It makes the most sense for the densest new development in the city next to a future commuter rail hub at Santa Fe Depot, and included restoring the street grid...
I too love(d) that idea. However, the new arena takes decided priority here, and will bring its own (very) positive change to this superblock and its surroundings.


...Question for those advocating to tear down Prairie Surf and build a new arena, what do you do with the current arena? Use it for minor league sports or tear it down too?...
Tear it down. This site will be prime for redevelopment AND will be controlled by the City.


...I feel like there is a way to extensively renovate Paycom without having to build a new arena.
There isn't, at least in a way that effects the changes needed. Besides the desired new revenue streams required by the modern NBA, there are a number of back-of-house changes needed that the present site simply can't provide. Among them is the loading dock situation. The present loading dock area is nowhere near large enough to properly support simultaneous load-in/out, which unnecessarily limits the number of concerts and other events. The same was true of the old convention center vs the new one.

3. Prairie Surf
0. Less than $600m
5 At least 50%, ideally closer to 75%

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https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/07/15/NOKL/6ebd2483-62f2-42db-8093-dc958e31865b-arena_locations2-01.jpg?width=660&height=497&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

I. Where should Oklahoma City build a new arena capable of supporting NBA in OKC:


1. Former cotton oil mill property
2. Bob Howard parking lots
3. Prairie Surf Studios (City owned)
4. Strawberry Fields
5. Other possible site

II. How much should our City pay for a new arena thru MAPS and/or Bonds:


1. $601 million - $700 million
2. $701 million - $800 million
3. $901 million - $1,000 billion
4. $1,001 billion - 1,100 billion
5. Other possible amount


III. How much should Thunder ownership Professional Basketball Club LLC pay on a new arena:


1. 10%
2. 15%
3. 20%
4. 25%
5. Other possible amount

https://www.tenforums.com/attachments/windows-10-news/91177d1485964822t-clarified-free-upgrade-offer-win-10-ending-july-29th-really-focus.gif



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Yeah, from the outside, it's not really that interesting. But the finishes on the inside are really nice and it has some cool features throughout.

had a buddy just attend a game there and he said it was pretty fantastic .. hopefully OKC adds some of the design elements to the new thunder stadium

the other interesting idea is somehow creating a NBA version of the new NFL "field suites" which several new teams have added ..

I remember when MAPS3 was proposed, there was talk of an intermodal hub being in place on the east side of the prairie surf property, across from the santa fe station. Is there any thought that even a small part could be worked into the development of the super block? I am not sure what that would look like and maybe the old arena site would be a better place for something like that, but wanted to bring it up.

Urbanized, do you recall what I am talking about?

I remember when MAPS3 was proposed, there was talk of an intermodal hub being in place on the east side of the prairie surf property, across from the santa fe station. Is there any thought that even a small part could be worked into the development of the super block? I am not sure what that would look like and maybe the old arena site would be a better place for something like that, but wanted to bring it up.

Urbanized, do you recall what I am talking about?

the Sante Fe station property works as the intermodal hub for the next 35-50 years .. the cost for phase 1-3 was 130 mil or so in 2011 dollars ..

I remember when MAPS3 was proposed, there was talk of an intermodal hub being in place on the east side of the prairie surf property, across from the santa fe station. Is there any thought that even a small part could be worked into the development of the super block? I am not sure what that would look like and maybe the old arena site would be a better place for something like that, but wanted to bring it up.

Urbanized, do you recall what I am talking about?
I do, but I think that ship has sailed.

I remember when MAPS3 was proposed, there was talk of an intermodal hub being in place on the east side of the prairie surf property, across from the santa fe station. Is there any thought that even a small part could be worked into the development of the super block? I am not sure what that would look like and maybe the old arena site would be a better place for something like that, but wanted to bring it up.

Urbanized, do you recall what I am talking about?
I do recall, but agree that it's probably a long shot in the near future.

I do recall, but agree that it's probably a long shot in the near future.

Holt is very good about building broad coalitions to get things done, if the demand was there wouldn't surprise me if its part of the new arena package.

One really positive thing for OKC is the amount of land the Myriad is on. By long-term leasing or even selling off some of this land to higher-use functions some of the construction cost of the arena could possibly be absorbed. I posted a graphic somewhere in the thread of how large this parcel is with the chase center development overlaid.

One really positive thing for OKC is the amount of land the Myriad is on. By long-term leasing or even selling off some of this land to higher-use functions some of the construction cost of the arena could possibly be absorbed. I posted a graphic somewhere in the thread of how large this parcel is with the chase center development overlaid.

https://i.gyazo.com/65ea83a25dc76b406bd8fc7a8f482f28.png

https://i.gyazo.com/ea263c91a4dc14a144f5e20afe4e15fb.jpg


Recall this being in the Paycom Center formerly Chesapeake Energy Arena link: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=23863&page=121

Good idea about long-term leasing or selling off some of the excess on the 4 square block old Myriad site.

I get the argument about cost of land with the Myriad/Prairie Surf because it seems to be right from my layman's perspective, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see the arena go on the old cotton mill site to jump start development there and create a connection with Bricktown, especially if the Dream development gets off the ground. That would also allow the current Paycom and Prairie Surf sites to be redeveloped out of superblocks, potentially with housing that fronts an amazing park and spur development of the Bob Howard parking lot.

The cotton mill is a massive site, so obviously more than the arena would go there, but it's a site that's effective enclosed by the rail line and the interstate, which limits the type of development that could go there. It seems something is needed to jump start that area and if they city is going to pay hundreds of millions to build a new arena, then it seems worthwhile to get that area going with part of that spend.

The obvious counterpoint is that the land cost of the cotton mill could be prohibitively expensive, especially if there is required environmental remediation (did that already occur in an attempt to make sellable?). Perhaps the Thunder ownership could enter into a partnership to help cover costs and create a massive development there that brings in other forms of revenue for the team.

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

I get the argument about cost of land with the Myriad/Prairie Surf because it seems to be right from my layman's perspective, but the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see the arena go on the old cotton mill site to jump start development there and create a connection with Bricktown, especially if the Dream development gets off the ground. That would also allow the current Paycom and Prairie Surf sites to be redeveloped out of superblocks, potentially with housing that fronts an amazing park and spur development of the Bob Howard parking lot.

The cotton mill is a massive site, so obviously more than the arena would go there, but it's a site that's effective enclosed by the rail line and the interstate, which limits the type of development that could go there. It seems something is needed to jump start that area and if they city is going to pay hundreds of millions to build a new arena, then it seems worthwhile to get that area going with part of that spend.

The obvious counterpoint is that the land cost of the cotton mill could be prohibitively expensive, especially if there is required environmental remediation (did that already occur in an attempt to make sellable?). Perhaps the Thunder ownership could enter into a partnership to help cover costs and create a massive development there that brings in other forms of revenue for the team.I don't remember ever reading anything about the cotton mill site being remediated. If a buyer has to do it that will be a gigantic cost. Plus getting the EPA involved puts building anything there many years off. I've been there done that when I was a facilities manager for Kerr-McGee. The EPA makes a snail seem fast. Much better idea to build the arena on the Prairie Surf site and let a private entity deal with the cotton mill site in the future.

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

lol

let me help you out with that ................ NO

I'm starting to think we should develop the Myriad Gardens site also. Scissortail Park (upper and lower) provides a large amount of acreage and makes that 4 square blocks look more valuable for construction.

Oh, lord, Dob. Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. The Myriad Gardens is one of the city's most valuable assets. Scissortail Park is nice and serves a great need, but it does not match what the Myriad Gardens provides. MG should be protected from development at all costs. In fact, the MG being so good and valuable is precisely why I'd prefer Prairie Surf to be developed into housing. Housing fronting the gardens would be highly desirable and create even greater interaction between people and the environment in a location ripe for it, bringing greater life to downtown. Right now, Paycom and Prairie Surf are dead zones.

I agree that Myriad Gardens is an icon that's off limits for anything but what it is now. There are lots of vacant or really "in need of improvement" blocks in the area that could be housing. Maybe high rise housing. The lot that's been talked about a lot on the last few pages for instance. It's within easy walking distance to MG, both Scissortail parks the Civic Center, etc. But messing with MG, NOOOOOOO!!!!!