I don't think we ever get the NHL just like Nashville probably never gets the NBA.

I'd rather have the NBA anyway.

I agree. In reality we already have another “pro” supported team in Sooner football. The NBA was def a better choice vs the NHL. With OU we will never get an NFL team and as much I would like an MLB team, we can’t even support the Dodgers that great. When you have to remove seats then you don’t have the support needed. Just my opinion.

I don't think we ever get the NHL just like Nashville probably never gets the NBA.

I'd rather have the NBA anyway.

i'm not yet ruling it out. per some of my contacts within the Dallas Stars organization, i have heard that they are getting wind that there is an OKC group looking at the Coyotes. the Stars are actively trying to figure out all the details, because they consider OKC as part of their market currently. Not saying it will happen, but it does sound like someone is atleast looking into it for OKC.

i'm not yet ruling it out. per some of my contacts within the Dallas Stars organization, i have heard that they are getting wind that there is an OKC group looking at the Coyotes. the Stars are actively trying to figure out all the details, because they consider OKC as part of their market currently. Not saying it will happen, but it does sound like someone is atleast looking into it for OKC.

If I recall correctly, there were similar grumblings from the Dallas Mavericks organization in the time leading up to the local group buying the Sonics at the time. I feel like I remember Cuban voting against it because he felt OKC was in their market, but maybe I'm conflating that part.

Again doesn't mean it's happening, but it's a sign that it's been discussed at some point seriously.

If I recall correctly, there were similar grumblings from the Dallas Mavericks organization in the time leading up to the local group buying the Sonics at the time. I feel like I remember Cuban voting against it because he felt OKC was in their market, but maybe I'm conflating that part.

Again doesn't mean it's happening, but it's a sign that it's been discussed at some point seriously.

Yea, Cuban and Paul Allen (microsoft co-founder with seattle ties) were the only no votes on relocation.

I agree. In reality we already have another “pro” supported team in Sooner football. The NBA was def a better choice vs the NHL. With OU we will never get an NFL team and as much I would like an MLB team, we can’t even support the Dodgers that great. When you have to remove seats then you don’t have the support needed. Just my opinion.

I am not sure Oklahoma could support the NHL.

The Tulsa Oilers struggle to fill the BoK. I know they're a minor league, but I don't think a professional team could do much better.

I am not sure Oklahoma could support the NHL.

The Tulsa Oilers struggle to fill the BoK. I know they're a minor league, but I don't think a professional team could do much better.

Tulsa won't get an NHL team but the Oilers averaged around 2,000 more people per game than the Phoenix Coyotes did this year at Mullett Arena.

I like hockey way more than I like basketball and I don't want an NHL team. I'm fine with going to Dallas a couple of times a year when the Avalanche play the Stars.

I like hockey way more than I like basketball and I don't want an NHL team. I'm fine with going to Dallas a couple of times a year when the Avalanche play the Stars.

Are the minor league teams still more brutal than the NHL? Meaning Do they still have more fights? It has been a while since i when to a hockey game.

Are the minor league teams still more brutal than the NHL? Meaning Do they still have more fights? It has been a while since i when to a hockey game.

the AHL no, it's still mostly about trying to play quality hockey, the ECHL (triple a equivalent) is a bit more rough, but not like what people remember from the old Blazers days of the 80's and 90's. to find that you have to go to the non-affiliated leagues, really, but the hockey there is really really bad. the ECHL is probably the closest to what you want, if that is more what you are looking for on a consistent basis.

The Dallas Stars play a preseason game every year in Tulsa and it is about 3/4 full. About the same amount of people the Thunder preseason game in Tulsa gets.

I am not sure Oklahoma could support the NHL.

The Tulsa Oilers struggle to fill the BoK. I know they're a minor league, but I don't think a professional team could do much better.

Minor league hockey and the NHL are leagues apart when it comes to the game day experience, and the quality of play. The drop off in quality between the AHL and NHL is drastically worse than the NBA and the G-League. NHL games have an incredible atmosphere and the speed that they are able to play at is incredible in person. It likely won't happen, but if we could get the Coyotes franchise, I think they would honestly see all-time highs in attendance for the franchise. The Coyotes have been a dumpster fire for decades, the team has never really found success or a fanbase. In a perfect world I would love to see the new arena have the ability to host both the Thunder and an NHL team. The overlap for the two leagues would be difficult to schedule around, but several other arenas are able to do it in addition to hosting more concerts/other events. The main issue would likely be that unless the Thunder ownership buy the Coyotes, I don't think they would want to share a facility they invested in with an NHL team with a different ownership group. I also wouldn't be opposed to an NHL team becoming an anchor tenant for the Paycom Center, but I don't think the NHL wants to be in a second-rate facility, and I don't know if OKC can draw enough events to keep two major arenas profitable. It would be really cool if we could pull off two arenas, but I don't think that is a realistic path forward.

Id be pretty shocked if the NHL came to OKC. Tulsa, maybe. Houston is probably the most realistic that’s the closest.

Is the focus on NHL because of nostalgia for the Blazer minor league hockey? Because we lobbied once to get the NHL here back in the 90s? Because its a lower profile (I think?) major league that we think is the most realistic possibility?

I'm legitimately just asking for curiosity's sake. I don't know anything about anything here, but from my ignorant perspective I would assume if we did have a second major league team it would be best to have one in a sport that has seasons opposite the Thunder's, so like MLB. It seems like its a longshot dream either way; I'm just curious why we're dreaming about NHL specifically.

Is the focus on NHL because of nostalgia for the Blazer minor league hockey? Because we lobbied once to get the NHL here back in the 90s? Because its a lower profile (I think?) major league that we think is the most realistic possibility?

I'm legitimately just asking for curiosity's sake. I don't know anything about anything here, but from my ignorant perspective I would assume if we did have a second major league team it would be best to have one in a sport that has seasons opposite the Thunder's, so like MLB. It seems like its a longshot dream either way; I'm just curious why we're dreaming about NHL specifically.

The Coyotes have been on the cusp of leaving for the better part of the last 30 years. Oklahoma City has been a rumored destination for the league. Another Canadian city, or a larger city like Houston are certainly more likely. It is still in the realm of possibility, but just not likely.

Is the focus on NHL because of nostalgia for the Blazer minor league hockey? Because we lobbied once to get the NHL here back in the 90s? Because its a lower profile (I think?) major league that we think is the most realistic possibility?

I'm legitimately just asking for curiosity's sake. I don't know anything about anything here, but from my ignorant perspective I would assume if we did have a second major league team it would be best to have one in a sport that has seasons opposite the Thunder's, so like MLB. It seems like its a longshot dream either way; I'm just curious why we're dreaming about NHL specifically.

I highly, highly doubt OKC or the state would get a 2nd franchise, but the MLS and NHL are the only "realistic" options for a 2nd pro franchise, in my opinion. I can't see any world where Oklahoma would get an MLB team, although it's probably the league I'd like the most.

Fan interest would be there for the NFL, but the Cowboys/Chiefs probably wouldn't be too happy about a team in OK. Not even getting into the fact that the cost of a franchise would be absolutely astronomical and would require a huge corporate sponsor base, which I don't think Oklahoma has. Also, we don't even have the stadiums for these leagues. Whereas we have an arena and will eventually have a soccer stadium one day.

I think the interest in the NHL is mainly because it's the most realistic of the possibilities. Maybe some Blazers nostalgia effect. We loved going to Blazers games and went to most of them. Was it great hockey? No. But for what it was it was cheap entertainment. The Barons were much better hockey but it was way more expensive. Much closer in cost to the NHL than old Blazers games. We went to a handful of Barons games. Attendance wasn't good. I know a lot of people that bought nose bleed seats and sat in good seats because it was easy to do.

I highly, highly doubt OKC or the state would get a 2nd franchise, but the MLS and NHL are the only "realistic" options for a 2nd pro franchise, in my opinion. I can't see any world where Oklahoma would get an MLB team, although it's probably the league I'd like the most.

Fan interest would be there for the NFL, but the Cowboys/Chiefs probably wouldn't be too happy about a team in OK. Not even getting into the fact that the cost of a franchise would be absolutely astronomical and would require a huge corporate sponsor base, which I don't think Oklahoma has. Also, we don't even have the stadiums for these leagues. Whereas we have an arena and will eventually have a soccer stadium one day.

Yeah Jerry has tremendous stroke in the NFL and would never allow it, just ask Austin and San Antonio

Jerry is turning 81 soon, so there's that.

I don't think OKC has the population or sponsorship capital to support almost 100 pro home games every year between October and May. NBA and NHL each have 41 home games + some preseason and playoffs.

It's fun to dream but let's be realistic - the Thunder will most likely be the only "big four" team to play in Oklahoma for at least the next generation. That's why it's CRITICAL that the arena vote passes and we lock them in.

I don't think OKC has the population or sponsorship capital to support almost 100 pro home games every year between October and May. NBA and NHL each have 41 home games + some preseason and playoffs.

It's fun to dream but let's be realistic - the Thunder will most likely be the only "big four" team to play in Oklahoma for at least the next generation. That's why it's CRITICAL that the arena vote passes and we lock them in.

NHL only has 41 Home games per regular season.

Oklahoma City needs to build a beyond awesome arena like this new one in Las Vegas. Seats 18,600. The only problem is that is cost $2.3 billion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCY1Ph7T0k&t=78s&ab_channel=ABCNews

Oklahoma City needs to build a beyond awesome arena like this new one in Las Vegas. Seats 18,600. The only problem is that is cost $2.3 billion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCY1Ph7T0k&t=78s&ab_channel=ABCNews

That is not an arena. It is the worlds most expensive billboard/concert hall/movie theater.

Oklahoma City needs to build a beyond awesome arena like this new one in Las Vegas. Seats 18,600. The only problem is that is cost $2.3 billion:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKCY1Ph7T0k&t=78s&ab_channel=ABCNews

Easy for someone in Stillwater to say that OKC‘s citizens should funds about $2 billion. :p

As much as I loved the Blazers, the place was pretty empty for every game. Granted, the Myriad was the biggest venue for the league so 50% attendance was more than most of the other venues could even hold. But it was a fun experience. I'm not confident that we could support a full NHL team at this point. I just dont think the market is big enough with hockey not being a big deal here. The Blazers were fun because tickets were dirt cheap and so was the beer. A NHL game won't be the same.

I would equate it to the old 89ers games. Cheap tickets brought in more people, but the sport itself has sort of lost steam and some of the larger stadiums are struggling to fill seats, Some of those places have resorted to what the OKC Dodgers have done, big ole plastic tarps to block off chunks of seating so its not so empty looking. We were having the same issue in the Myriad with the IHL team after the loge boxes were added. So that doesn't give me a lot of confidence that we would be able to do much better for an NHL team, which also would be draining corporate sponsors for NBA. We're just not big enough yet to support two pro teams.

That is not an arena. It is the worlds most expensive billboard/concert hall/movie theater.

Its cool and inspiring now. Just wait until their using it for actual advertising.

Its cool and inspiring now. Just wait until they’re using it for actual advertising.
With the way, Vegas is going it wouldn’t surprise me. But if anyone wants an excuse to go to Vegas and has it been for a while this should be a reason why. This thing is fu€king amazing in person.

That is not an arena. It is the worlds most expensive billboard/concert hall/movie theater.

Then make it an arena.

Easy for someone in Stillwater to say that OKC‘s citizens should funds about $2 billion. :p

No, I'm thinking of billionaires and millionaires hopefully willing to finance it. Where do you think Heartland is getting financing for its $2 billion park? Maybe a smaller version of the Sphere could be in Heartland.

Mayor Holt is going to talk about the arena tomorrow morning on the KATT. Not that he'll say anything we don't already know.

Mayor Holt is going to talk about the arena tomorrow morning on the KATT. Not that he'll say anything we don't already know.

It's all just vague PR in advance of the detailed plans being revealed in the next month or two.

Oklahoma City IMO could build something comparable to Little Caesar's Arena (Detroit) with 1,500 less seats (around 18,500) and more space for an outside exterior balcony and amenities on the PSM site in the $750 million-$800 million range.

https://detroitsports.org/images/2022/7/6/LCA_behind_basket.jpg


Seats can be red, orange, blue or teal--any of these seat colors or combinations will do.
Do feasibility study on reviving the All College Tournament (NCAA basketball) Holiday Tournament which would benefit downtown hotels and Bricktown Entertainment District--get OU and/or OSU to commit to the event.

Get a major tourists attraction downtown like a multi-million dollar Zoo Aquarium.

Utilizing a new arena and Paycom Center could bring back the FFA 10,000 member attendees convention to OKC until a decision is made on the Paycom Arena.

^ ^ ^ This could lead to construction of more 'quality' downtown hotels with more potential to attract level II, III type conventions.

More fan engagement love the idea.

We passed the first MAPS initiative in 1993; we took the process underground and allowed those involved to get their ideas together before being presented to the public. Mayor Ron Norick is who we all credit with getting the first MAPS passed and getting our city to place more emphasis on 'quality of life' aspects of our city floated the Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS) that saved aging infrastructure (City owned buildings, school buildings, a river and improvements of overall quality of life).

Let's get the 'whole' city council involved with periodic reports without jeopardizing the integrity of the project. Important that all members agree to keep this process behind the scenes and allow our mayor (spokesperson) to speak out about the process.

I know there are many things our city needs to address (all ideas need to be evaluated); however, you can only focus on a few at a time.

On the arena development, we don't need a true hard core figure until determine what will be needed for a new arena addressing NBA, major concerts and events. We know the range will be somewhere in the $600 million - $1 billion range for a city of our size.

Small NBA markets under 2 million MSA population:]


40. Milwaukee 1,559,792 - Fiserv Forum, $524 million (arena portion) - 714,000 sq ft
42. Oklahoma City 1,459,380 - Paycom Center, $89. 2 million - 586,000 sq ft (opened 2002)
44. Memphis 1,332,305 - Fedex Forum, $250 million - 805,850 ft (opened 2004)
46. Salt Lake City 1,266,191 - Delta Center, $93 million - 743,000 sq ft (opened 1991)
47. New Orleans 1,246,176 - Smoothie King Center, $114 million - 571,000 sq ft (opened 1999)

The Thunder ownership will make a significant contribution; we won't know that until we determine specification and outcomes.

Just want to mention what IMO is a sense of civic pride in our Thunder ownership.

If this was about 'money' they could have easily put the franchise up for sale and distributed more than $1.875 billion - $2 billion (Forbes 2023 NBA team evaluations - OKC #24) among themselves based on their investments.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/#tab:overall

.

We passed the first MAPS initiative in 1993; we took the process underground and allowed those involved to get their ideas together before being presented to the public. Mayor Ron Norick is who we all credit with getting the first MAPS passed and getting our city to place more emphasis on 'quality of life' aspects of our city floated the Metropolitan Area Projects (MAPS) that saved aging infrastructure (City owned buildings, school buildings, a river and improvements of overall quality of life).

Let's get the 'whole' city council involved with periodic reports without jeopardizing the integrity of the project. Important that all members agree to keep this process behind the scenes and allow our mayor (spokesperson) to speak out about the process.

I know there are many things our city needs to address (all ideas need to be evaluated); however, you can only focus on a few at a time.

On the arena development, we don't need a true hard core figure until determine what will be needed for a new arena addressing NBA, major concerts and events. We know the range will be somewhere in the $600 million - $1 billion range for a city of our size.

Small NBA markets under 2 million MSA population:]


40. Milwaukee 1,559,792 - Fiserv Forum, $524 million (arena portion) - 714,000 sq ft
42. Oklahoma City 1,459,380 - Paycom Center, $89. 2 million - 586,000 sq ft (opened 2002)
44. Memphis 1,332,305 - Fedex Forum, $250 million - 805,850 ft (opened 2004)
46. Salt Lake City 1,266,191 - Delta Center, $93 million - 743,000 sq ft (opened 1991)
47. New Orleans 1,246,176 - Smoothie King Center, $114 million - 571,000 sq ft (opened 1999)

The Thunder ownership will make a significant contribution; we won't know that until we determine specification and outcomes.

Why do you think ownership will pay a dime of the new arena?

I think as a city we just have to decide do we want to keep a professional sports team knowing that every 20 years it'll require the equiv of half a billion dollars of investment. Is that a worthy investment for the city or should we spend those funds somewhere else?

Why do you think ownership will pay a dime of the new arena?

I think as a city we just have to decide do we want to keep a professional sports team knowing that every 20 years it'll require the equiv of half a billion dollars of investment. Is that a worthy investment for the city or should we spend those funds somewhere else?

Because the mayor said as much when he gave the State of the City address. He specifically said that ownership is going to contribute significantly financially to the new arena.

Just want to mention what IMO is a sense of civic pride in our Thunder ownership.

If this was about 'money' they could have easily put the franchise up for sale and distributed more than $1.875 billion - $2 billion (Forbes 2023 NBA team evaluations - OKC #24) among themselves based on their investments.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/#tab:overall


I think you are giving them too much credit. These guys aren't normal folks that need to sell a house to buy another one. And they certainly don't need to sell down their equity position in anything to fund their lifestyle or pay for a night out at Ruth's Chris. If you're that wealthy, you just borrow against your equity position in the team. No sense in paying capital gains taxes (and i'm assuming a 1031 exchange is not available for sports ball team divestitures), especially if you're sitting on an asset which should continue to appreciate substantially in the next decade.

And, all of them own businesses that employ folks in the OKC area. Having the Thunder in OKC helps those businesses recruit talent and, arguably, helps those businesses make more money than they would otherwise. At a minimum, those businesses get some sort of benefit if the Thunder are located in OKC.

Just want to mention what IMO is a sense of civic pride in our Thunder ownership.

If this was about 'money' they could have easily put the franchise up for sale and distributed more than $1.875 billion - $2 billion (Forbes 2023 NBA team evaluations - OKC #24) among themselves based on their investments.

Source: https://www.forbes.com/nba-valuations/list/#tab:overall

.

No, you don’t really need to give billionaires credit or praise them for being selfless citizens for continuing to hold on to an asset that will continue to increase in value, especially when they’re about to strongarm the city into outlaying a massive amount of money for a new arena.

No, you don’t really need to give billionaires credit or praise them for being selfless citizens for continuing to hold on to an asset that will continue to increase in value, especially when they’re about to strongarm the city into outlaying a massive amount of money for a new arena.

You use harsh words so unnecessarily.

Why do you think ownership will pay a dime of the new arena?

I think as a city we just have to decide do we want to keep a professional sports team knowing that every 20 years it'll require the equiv of half a billion dollars of investment. Is that a worthy investment for the city or should we spend those funds somewhere else?

Because the mayor literally said the owners were planning to contribute significantly?

And 20 years? This one will be purpose built with a tenant and likely will last a good deal longer than that.

The rumored number is $70 million vs. approximately a $1 billion total cost.

'Significant' is a highly subjective term.

The rumored number is $70 million vs. approximately a $1 billion total cost.

'Significant' is a highly subjective term.

This makes no sense. Holt is so, so meticulous and crafty with his phrasing. So for him to say significant and it be 7% doesn't seem prudent for him (which is so out of character).

Maybe I'm wrong about Holt entirely, though.

I was thinking 20% minimum to be considered significant

This makes no sense. Holt is so, so meticulous and crafty with his phrasing. So for him to say significant and it be 7% doesn't seem prudent for him (which is so out of character).

Maybe I'm wrong about Holt entirely, though.

I don't know the number for sure, but $70 million has been tossed around for about a year.

I think Holt is a good mayor, but he is 1000% behind this deal and I wouldn't expect him to be anything near objective when it comes to his phrasing. He's been in full campaign mode for this for well over a year.

I don't know the number for sure, but $70 million has been tossed around for about a year.

I think Holt is a good mayor, but he is 1000% behind this deal and I wouldn't expect him to be anything near objective when it comes to his phrasing. He's been in full campaign mode for this for well over a year.

Is the $70 coming from the Maps allocation for the arena? I may be getting the mixed with another amount.

Not bashing at all, just curious, since Holt is such a good mayor who is always careful with his wording.

I was thinking 20% minimum to be considered significant

I'd be fine with 20% from ownership so long as they also commit to a full re-brand.

the Dorito/shield logo has to be one of the worst in pro sports.

Is the $70 coming from the Maps allocation for the arena? I may be getting the mixed with another amount.

Not bashing at all, just curious, since Holt is such a good mayor who is always careful with his wording.

We are talking about the financial contribution of the Thunder ownership, which Holt has described as 'significant'.

Keep in mind there will almost certainly be a non-arena aspect to this development (restaurants and other types of entertainment) and their money may be put towards that while also participating in associated profits. That was the plan with the proposed Thunder Alley south of Paycom and I expect they will take that concept and just enlarge it.

I'd be fine with 20% from ownership so long as they also commit to a full re-brand.

the Dorito/shield logo has to be one of the worst in pro sports.

They really should make the 18-19 Native American Jerseys the official logo/brand

The rumored number is $70 million vs. approximately a $1 billion total cost.

'Significant' is a highly subjective term.

Oh man that’s awful, and completely obliterates the idea of these owners being good loyal citizens who are doing all this out of the goodness of their hearts

Oh man that’s awful, and completely obliterates the idea of these owners being good loyal citizens who are doing all this out of the goodness of their hearts

Bookmarking for when the final details come out.

If ownership covers anything north of, say, 40% of this arena I will happily eat crow and - probably even better news for some on here - I will shut up about this deal

Bookmarking for when the final details come out.

Agree, so am I.

What I don't understand is--we have no idea what is going to be included in this arena.


1. Site not selected
2. Square footage not determined

A $70 million dollar rumor; would love to know the source of that. Just don't see Mayor Holt calling that a
significant contribution.

The rumored number is $70 million vs. approximately a $1 billion total cost.

'Significant' is a highly subjective term.

Are we really considering a $1billion arena? I'm in favor of building the arena, but I was thinking more along the lines of $550-650mil.

I'm not sure I'm onboard for 1bil. We as a city can do a LOT with a billion dollars.

Are we really considering a $1billion arena? I'm in favor of building the arena, but I was thinking more along the lines of $550-650mil.

I'm not sure I'm onboard for 1bil. We as a city can do a LOT with a billion dollars.

the new arena will cost very close to that amount .. yes

Are we really considering a $1billion arena? I'm in favor of building the arena, but I was thinking more along the lines of $550-650mil.

I'm not sure I'm onboard for 1bil. We as a city can do a LOT with a billion dollars.

Agree more along the lines of a $550 million - $650 million arena. So $70 million would be significant.

Also, I trust Pete, he wouldn't have put that figure out there if he didn't consider his source credible. Significant contribution is subjective.

Milwaukee's Fiserv Forum tour IMO was a benchmark for our new arena. Their arena costs $524 million - 724,000 sq. ft - seating capacity, 17,500.


Populous: https://populous.com/project/fiserv-forum




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-X1JMfDaI&t=150s

I can support an extension of MAPS to fund a new arena development comparable to Fiserv Forum.

Also: As anchor tenant, the ownership will get that $70 million back in 'naming rights' revenue.

$70m is not a significant amount of money for any modern arena, especially from an ownership group that will gain significantly more than that in terms of valuation thanks to the new arena. We don’t need to do free PR for billionaires.

I think it all depends on how much the areana actually ends up costing. $70 million of a $650 million facility is a decent amount and $1 billion in OKC would be a world-class facility.

I would think $1B would include additional development around the arena on the Cox site with the actual arena in the $500M range. Something like Rogers Place/ Ice District in Edmonton:
https://www.liveskycondos.com/img/ice-district/masterplan.jpg
https://i.cbc.ca/1.2747708.1409090328!/fileImage/httpImage/stantec-tower.jpg

I wouldn't mind something like this. Just might not have the ability to fill those towers. But a development similar to this would be awesome!

I think it was said somewhere here that the $1B is just for the arena.