Depends what exactly you mean by "one of" but this is not really true for the metro area. It's only true for the population of the city itself, which as we know encompasses a larger fraction of the metro area's population than many/most other major cities.

Which, by definition, makes it part of the metro area. To your point, it's a complement to OKC that people desire to live acually in the city and not just the burbs. :)

'Oklahoma misses out again. Scout was the rumor, and it is going elsewhere. The sad thing is, nothing we can do about it.

Another loss for Stitt, which no conservative seems to give a rat's behind about.

Oklahoma will keep losing these developments, and it is awful. OKC is fine, but the rest of the state is suffering under Bull-Stitt.

Edit: my point stands, but might be too quick on the draw.

Oh, well, every time a state manages to nab a major new industrial plant 49 states lost out on it

Oh, well, every time a state manages to nab a major new industrial plant 49 states lost out on it

Not even remotely true. Not all bid on these projects.

They picked Canada. What a surprise!

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-build-first-north-american-battery-cell-plant-canada-2023-03-13/

How incredibly Oklahoma this all is.

They picked Canada. What a surprise!

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-build-first-north-american-battery-cell-plant-canada-2023-03-13/

“Imagine that”

Again, not a fair fight, pitting Pryor against Canada. This stupid governor of ours keeps hindering the state by promoting Tulsa areas versus places like Austin and Canada. Places they can't win against from the start.

OKC needs an industrial park to truly allow the state to compete.

Again, not a fair fight, pitting Pryor against Canada. This stupid governor of ours keeps hindering the state by promoting Tulsa areas versus places like Austin and Canada. Places they can't win against from the start.

OKC needs an industrial park to truly allow the state to compete.

Volkswagen is building a new plant in South Carolina. Is that a fair fight?

“imagine that”

lmao

Volkswagen is building a new plant in South Carolina. Is that a fair fight?

Then what should OK have done to get this? They offered every bit as much as Canada did, and are cheaper. No one wants to go to Pryor, OK. That hurts OK a ton in these things.

I am not forgiving the state, at all. But these jobs aren't ones you need an PhD for. Or barely even a bachelors, even though they will say they do.

I know you are too biased against the state to have an honest conversation with, so I am done talking about this. Oklahoma lost, on to the next. I don't think Oklahoma could best Canada in something like this, it isn't a fair fight. South Carolina has a BMW car plant there. So the Germany-SC connection is well established. But I bet you forgot that...

It helps that the government of Canada was involved in the negotiations in conjunction with it's major industries and ability to adjust it's regulatory and commercial trade environment. Oklahoma can only do so much as a small US state. We can try to fork over cash, but can't make the deals that a massive federal government can. It's not so much that it is Pryor - the site is well positioned and has attracted a ton of interest, it's simply that there are bigger deals out there. Some deals, such as the Kansas deal, are so big that it would be silly to even try competing with them because the cost/benefit is far from worthwhile at a certain point.

I don't think putting another major industrial park in OKC would make a difference in these types of deals - at least not as far as incentive battles are concerned. What attracts companies to Pryor is the hydro power as I understand it. OKC metro at large could probably drum up some interest due to the university presence, shipping crossroads, and maybe wind power credits?

What attracts companies to Pryor is the hydro power as I understand it.

The utility-rate power and water through GRDA at MAIP is a very good deal for companies. It's perfect for data center operations like Google. What MAIP/Pryor doesn't have is a lot of available housing for thousands of new workers. The Fair Oaks industrial park and Port of Inola are better sites because they are closer to existing and planned housing in Tulsa/Broken Arrow, but don't have the power/water advantages like MAIP. Both Fair Oaks and the Port of Inola were recently awarded ARPA funds to expand the wastewater infrastructure at each site and make them more attractive to large manufacturing plants.

Again, not a fair fight, pitting Pryor against Canada. This stupid governor of ours keeps hindering the state by promoting Tulsa areas versus places like Austin and Canada. Places they can't win against from the start.

OKC needs an industrial park to truly allow the state to compete.

There is one in the works. 577

Then what should OK have done to get this? They offered every bit as much as Canada did, and are cheaper. No one wants to go to Pryor, OK. That hurts OK a ton in these things.

I am not forgiving the state, at all. But these jobs aren't ones you need an PhD for. Or barely even a bachelors, even though they will say they do.

I know you are too biased against the state to have an honest conversation with, so I am done talking about this. Oklahoma lost, on to the next. I don't think Oklahoma could best Canada in something like this, it isn't a fair fight. South Carolina has a BMW car plant there. So the Germany-SC connection is well established. But I bet you forgot that...

Im not biased against the state at all. Oklahoma is getting exactly what it deserves and what it votes for.

Im not biased against the state at all. Oklahoma is getting exactly what it deserves and what it votes for.

But God himself, and Barack Obama as governor wouldn't have gotten Oklahoma the W against the entire nation of Canada's money and incentives...

Like I said, this isn't a battle to blame Stitt on. Panasonic, sure (but that is seeming too good to be true for Kansas, with them already asking for more with no additional jobs). But this is Canada vs. Oklahoma.

Wall Street Journal has a 12 paragraph story on this with no mention of Oklahoma, or any US location

There is one in the works. 577

It's a small one compared to Mid-America, Pryor.

But God himself, and Barack Obama as governor wouldn't have gotten Oklahoma the W against the entire nation of Canada's money and incentives...

Like I said, this isn't a battle to blame Stitt on. Panasonic, sure (but that is seeming too good to be true for Kansas, with them already asking for more with no additional jobs). But this is Canada vs. Oklahoma.
You guys are so hung up on political and social things you ignore all the other factors that went into the decision. We have to stop trying for things we are at a real disadvantage at and we would only have a chance for if we buy it. We need to pursue things we have a real chance for.

We have a poorly educated working class and very little capital for supplying complementary companies with which these installations can be supported. Our lack of support for education keeps hurting us and 23rd street is more concerned with culture wars than with putting the state in a position to prosper.

You guys are so hung up on political and social things you ignore all the other factors that went into the decision. We have to stop trying for things we are at a real disadvantage at and we would only have a chance for if we buy it. We need to pursue things we have a real chance for.

South Carolina got massive, massive BMW plant that they bought and paid for. Now look at them. They kill it in these projects. It just takes one.

We have a poorly educated working class and very little capital for supplying complementary companies with which these installations can be supported. Our lack of support for education keeps hurting us and 23rd street is more concerned with culture wars than with putting the state in a position to prosper.THIS, 110%.

On a national level, Oklahoma comes across many times as a land of meth-users, country bumpkins, the Christian right, Trump lovers, and Hee-Haw. Yeah, that's not "politically correct," but anyone thinking an international company like Panasonic or Volkswagen thinks highly of our "culture," or lack thereof, is fooling themselves.

And South Carolina has the Port of Charleston, one of the largest shipping ports in the United States. Oklahoma has...the Port of Catoosa. Not quite as impressive in comparison, eh?

THIS, 110%.

On a national level, Oklahoma comes across many times as a land of meth-users, country bumpkins, the Christian right, Trump lovers, and Hee-Haw. Yeah, that's not "politically correct," but anyone thinking an international company like Panasonic or Volkswagen thinks highly of our "culture," or lack thereof, is fooling themselves.

And South Carolina has the Port of Charleston, one of the largest shipping ports in the United States. Oklahoma has...the Port of Catoosa. Not quite as impressive in comparison, eh?

The VW plant in South Carolina will be outside Columbia and within 1.5 hours of Charlotte, a region of more than 2.5 million people. As mentioned there is a seaport 2 hours away and rail connections across the Eastern Seaboard. And also nonstop flights to Germany at the nearby CLT airport. Oh and South Carolina just offered up $1.3 BILLION to lure this factory, more than double what Oklahoma was willing to spend.

Excuses abound for consistent failure

Excuses abound for consistent failure

Canada vs Oklahoma. How is that a fair fight for you to bash? Pick a different battle.

Canada vs Oklahoma. How is that a fair fight for you to bash? Pick a different battle.
Tesla. Panasonic. Oh and VW just picked South Carolina for a massive new Scout vehicle plant. So the whole “Canada vs Oklahoma” trope is a bit disingenuous.

Tesla. Panasonic. Oh and VW just picked South Carolina for a massive new Scout vehicle plant. So the whole “Canada vs Oklahoma” trope is a bit disingenuous.

Disagree. SC already had a BMW plant, so the Germany connection has been there a long time. Sure, they had to win that one, but Scout wasn't considering anywhere else by SC for that plant.

I m not defending the state, just saying this was a battle they weren't going to win if we were the most liberal, inclusive, diverse state on earth.

I m not defending the state, just saying this was a battle they weren't going to win if we were the most liberal, inclusive, diverse state on earth.
There’s really no way for me to disprove this, but I disagree. I believe that if our current government in Oklahoma wasn’t so focused on being anti-woke and pushing several other regressive ideologies, we would’ve landed at least one of these last three companies that have all passed us over.

South Carolina got massive, massive BMW plant that they bought and paid for. Now look at them. They kill it in these projects. It just takes one.
Unfortunately, Ok doesn’t even compete well with S C. We compete with Alabama and Mississippi. Our educational system and training level of our workers is abysmal and our politicians don’t care, even if they actually knew what to do.

They picked Canada. What a surprise!

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-build-first-north-american-battery-cell-plant-canada-2023-03-13/

It's actually a bad reflection upon the U. S. not just Oklahoma. At least half the states have Right to Work, yet Canada was selected even though it doesn't have Right to Work. Right to Work doesn't work. Right to Work hucksters insisted over 20 years ago when Right to Work passed that it would attract more manufacturing jobs to Oklahoma. It didn't. Lots of manufacturing jobs were already moving to China back then, so it was easy for me to be skeptical about that. Right to Work's true intention was to weaken well established labor unions in Oklahoma.

News articles on it:

News 9: https://www.news9.com/story/6410ebd5b412471584ccb427/oklahoma-passed-over-for-volkswagen-deal-lawmakers-wonder-why

TW: https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/could-oklahoma-legislators-have-698m-more-to-spend-after-failed-volkswagen-deal/article_1ce7f8a2-c272-11ed-8cc5-ab9d0bacfa30.html

JR: https://journalrecord.com/2023/03/14/oklahoma-lawmakers-reflect-on-economic-development-loss/

KFOR: https://kfor.com/news/local/volkswagen-picks-canada-for-newest-factory-much-to-the-disappointment-of-oklahoma/

TLO: https://thelostogle.com/2023/03/14/conservative-state-senator-baffled-on-why-companies-wont-move-to-oklahoma

Unfortunately, Ok doesn’t even compete well with S C. We compete with Alabama and Mississippi. Our educational system and training level of our workers is abysmal and our politicians don’t care, even if they actually knew what to do.
This is sad but true.

I awoke this morning to a news story about our legislature debating corporal punishment in schools yesterday. One legislator, who is obviously a preacher, was quoting the Bible in defense of spanking, even if the child is mentally or developmentally challenged.

Our legislature is debating spanking in schools and quoting the Bible while our state remains in the bottom 20% of the United States in almost every education statistic. This sure doesn't help attract international industry to Oklahoma.

https://twitter.com/_amyblackburn/status/1635682135234478081?s=46&t=clA45ohX7__XKdYUMneLCA

According to this post - sounds like it really is a workforce issue. Not an issue with site infrastructure or incentives. I wonder if there if this location is just too far from populated area to get needed labor force and that is why is keeps falling short.

I m not defending the state, just saying this was a battle they weren't going to win if we were the most liberal, inclusive, diverse state on earth.

except that we lost one of these companies to Kansas, who is basically us if we actually ran our state government to help people and not just scream MAGA and say everything is "Woke"

I was thinking about this last night watching the news and they were showing one of our state politicians arguing on the floor against a bill that would prevent the use of corporal punishment on kids with disabilities. He was arguing that it is God's will to beat kids as the bible says not to spare the rod. I told my wife....this is why businesses don't want to come here. Of course...it made national news

https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-republicans-vote-let-teahers-hit-kids-disabilities-1787784
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/15/oklahoma-corporal-punishment-disabled-students/

Did the Politics board re-open?

I was thinking about this last night watching the news and they were showing one of our state politicians arguing on the floor against a bill that would prevent the use of corporal punishment on kids with disabilities. He was arguing that it is God's will to beat kids as the bible says not to spare the rod. I told my wife....this is why businesses don't want to come here. Of course...it made national news

https://www.newsweek.com/oklahoma-republicans-vote-let-teahers-hit-kids-disabilities-1787784
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/03/15/oklahoma-corporal-punishment-disabled-students/

We've got some real nut jobs on 23rd street. SMDH

We've got some real nut jobs on 23rd street. SMDH

The states that allow corporal punishment include: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming, according to the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry.

and that is public schools ..

every state but 2 allows it in private schools ..

The states that allow corporal punishment include: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming, according to the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry.

and that is public schools ..

every state but 2 allows it in private schools ..

And how many were quoting the bible to smack a disabled kid? But right on brand for you to defend it.

Not to open a can of worms, but I have had friends high in State agencies. I asked why 23rd street can't get anything done. The common answer was since term limits, there has been no real leadership. No compromise. Like I say, they are Jacked. .

And how many were quoting the bible to smack a disabled kid? But right on brand for you to defend it.

OK. Enough of the Christianophobic speech.

And how many were quoting the bible to smack a disabled kid? But right on brand for you to defend it.

where did I "defend" it ... please show me ..

people act like Oklahoma has all of these "outlier" laws the reality is that we don't

OK. Enough of the Christianophobic speech.

Christianophobic? He was quoting the bible. Watch the video.

ok... this thread is drifting too much into politics. let's get back to topic.

We have all this money ($700 million) set aside for bringing new industry and corporations to Oklahoma--recent lost, the VW Assembly plant. Why not try to attract some smaller corporations with growth potential.

Did the Politics board re-open?

If politics itself could only ban including people.

We have all this money ($700 million) set aside for bringing new industry and corporations to Oklahoma--recent lost, the VW Assembly plant. Why not try to attract some smaller corporations with growth potential.

Probably a lot of businesses don't want to come to Oklahoma for other reasons, such as the weather able to get so bad from killer tornadoes. As I've mentioned before, surely more needs to be done to develop and grow innovative businesses and industry in the state. Do more Career Techs need business incubators? If so, build them. Innovative ideas for these modern times require advanced education. So, improve support for it.

https://twitter.com/_amyblackburn/status/1635682135234478081?s=46&t=clA45ohX7__XKdYUMneLCA

According to this post - sounds like it really is a workforce issue. Not an issue with site infrastructure or incentives. I wonder if there if this location is just too far from populated area to get needed labor force and that is why is keeps falling short.

Thanks. A bunch of interesting tweets there. Going after smaller companies that will only hire as few as a hundred, rather, than a few thousand could work out better.

Probably a lot of businesses don't want to come to Oklahoma for other reasons, such as the weather able to get so bad from killer tornadoes. As I've mentioned before, surely more needs to be done to develop and grow innovative businesses and industry in the state. Do more Career Techs need business incubators? If so, build them. Innovative ideas for these modern times require advanced education. So, improve support for it.

I know in Tulsa there has been a lot of new jobs created in tech start-ups downtown through incubators like 36 Degrees N, most of which has been privately funded. It's not thousands of manufacturing jobs but its the start of a tech ecosystem that continues to build. An expansion of the State Quality Jobs fund to provide additional incentives for small-medium size companies to tap into that ecosystem and expand it would be a huge benefit.

There’s really no way for me to disprove this, but I disagree. I believe that if our current government in Oklahoma wasn’t so focused on being anti-woke and pushing several other regressive ideologies, we would’ve landed at least one of these last three companies that have all passed us over.

Why can't the reason be both our ****ty education, regressive ideologies and we also don't/can't spend the same incentive money that other states can?

If Oklahomans think the way to compete is by buying then we will keep on losing. Oklahoma is a poor state so money against money, we lose. We don’t play smart.

Why can't the reason be both our ****ty education, regressive ideologies and we also don't/can't spend the same incentive money that other states can?
We came pretty close to matching the funds Kansas offered and had the advantage of being closer to where Panasonic wanted to be. I agree with your reasons above.

However, I’ll add maybe the Tulsa metro isn’t the right place for these projects. Tesla, Panasonic, and now Volkswagen have all said no and some blame lack of workforce. OKC Metro has a larger workforce and a major university and is closer to Texas. It’s also located along two major, non tolled interstates. It’s the state Capitol and seems to have much more going for than Tulsa. The DFW MSA is making its way into Oklahoma. Panasonic wanted to be as close to Texas as possible, why did the state not advocate somewhere along I-35 between Texas and OKC?

Maybe it’s a bit too early but Winstar supports a large employment base so perhaps Panasonic could have been supported too. If a more educated/skilled workforce is needed then what about the area immediately south of Norman? Tons of open space that could’ve been used. The OKC metro’s manufacturing buildings are too spread out anyways it needs a real warehouse district.

The only advantage Tulsa has is the inland water port which is nice but it’s only a couple hour drive which seems worth the trade off. I’d imagine OKCs airport will also soon have many more connections than Tulsa. This isn’t a knock on Tulsa either I’d have loved to have seen them land this but maybe the state needs to try and promote OKC for these mega projects and not Tulsa.

You guys are so hung up on political and social things you ignore all the other factors that went into the decision. We have to stop trying for things we are at a real disadvantage at and we would only have a chance for if we buy it. We need to pursue things we have a real chance for.

We have a poorly educated working class and very little capital for supplying complementary companies with which these installations can be supported. Our lack of support for education keeps hurting us and 23rd street is more concerned with culture wars than with putting the state in a position to prosper.

Getting rich in producing oil has been more important than supporting education in Oklahoma. During the 20 teens, Oklahoma taxed new oil and gas production from prolific horizontal wells -- the big money-makers of the fracking industry -- at rates as low as 1 percent throughout the shale boom. In North Dakota’s giant Bakken oilfield, the going rate was 11.5 percent. Consequently, since the 2008 Great Recession, Oklahoma's funding for education fell more than any other state.

To explain why Oklahoma is the way it is today dates back to the very beginning in 1907 when it became a state. To become a state, it had to agree to be a dry state for its first 20 years. So, that surely attracted a large number of conservative Christian newcomers from out of state. When the Great Depression came that cleared out a lot of farmers and remaining oil boomers. They fled largely for California. The more stable conservative residents elected to stay in Oklahoma. Many of them, rather than try to make it by staying on the farm moved to the three biggest cities and many of the larger small towns. So that is where much of today's far right conservatism comes from in Oklahoma. It's been passed on from generation to generation. I'll admit, though, a weakness in my theory is if Oklahoma was so appealing to move to and live in as a dry state, legaliziing alcohol in 1959 should not have happened. Still, Oklahoma was one of the last states to legalize alcohol after repeal of Prohibition.

We came pretty close to matching the funds Kansas offered and had the advantage of being closer to where Panasonic wanted to be. I agree with your reasons above.

However, I’ll add maybe the Tulsa metro isn’t the right place for these projects. Tesla, Panasonic, and now Volkswagen have all said no and some blame lack of workforce. OKC Metro has a larger workforce and a major university and is closer to Texas. It’s also located along two major, non tolled interstates. It’s the state Capitol and seems to have much more going for than Tulsa. The DFW MSA is making its way into Oklahoma. Panasonic wanted to be as close to Texas as possible, why did the state not advocate somewhere along I-35 between Texas and OKC?


I believe a major consideration is the utility rate power that is available in this area. Clearly not enough to get over the hump, but I think it's a pretty big reason companies are considering the area.

The only advantage Tulsa has is the inland water port which is nice but it’s only a couple hour drive which seems worth the trade off. I’d imagine OKCs airport will also soon have many more connections than Tulsa. This isn’t a knock on Tulsa either I’d have loved to have seen them land this but maybe the state needs to try and promote OKC for these mega projects and not Tulsa.

OKC doesn't have a large industrial park with pad-ready sites next to existing rail/highway infrastructure and access to utility-rate power and water like what exists in NE OK. 577 could work for some companies but is more warehouse/logistics-oriented not designed for a major manufacturing plant.

Yesterday I went to an ASCE luncheon where one of the officials from MidAmerican was speaking. I was surprised that much of his presentation was about all the neighborhoods they are building around the park (outside of it, well away from potential major industrial sites). They have apparently built a little commercial district and already have some local restaurants and such that have moved in. They are building northwards into Pryor with a bunch of mixed use areas and have a focus on creating solid quality of life with trail systems, green spaces, and commercial amenities so that people will actually want to live out there. There are plans for hundreds of homes, and many are already under construction.

He also said a major factor in the VW decision was the lack of an intermodal facility to take material off of trains efficiently. Without it, you have to send trains to KC or Dallas and truck them to Pryor, which obviously greatly adds to shipping costs. That's what they meant when they talked about VW needing to be closer to the raw materials. There are plans for an intermodal facility at the park, but it will cost ~$100 million, so it isn't happening soon.

Yesterday I went to an ASCE luncheon where one of the officials from MidAmerican was speaking. I was surprised that much of his presentation was about all the neighborhoods they are building around the park (outside of it, well away from potential major industrial sites). They have apparently built a little commercial district and already have some local restaurants and such that have moved in. They are building northwards into Pryor with a bunch of mixed use areas and have a focus on creating solid quality of life with trail systems, green spaces, and commercial amenities so that people will actually want to live out there. There are plans for hundreds of homes, and many are already under construction.

He also said a major factor in the VW decision was the lack of an intermodal facility to take material off of trains efficiently. Without it, you have to send trains to KC or Dallas and truck them to Pryor, which obviously greatly adds to shipping costs. That's what they meant when they talked about VW needing to be closer to the raw materials. There are plans for an intermodal facility at the park, but it will cost ~$100 million, so it isn't happening soon.

It is good to hear that Mid America recognizes that more amenities are needed to be competitive in Pryor. While most employees for any new company in Mid America will be from Oklahoma, senior management and senior technical staff for any sophisticated manufacturing facility, initially, will be existing corporate employees and likely be from out of state. Today, those people probably will not be excited to move to Pryor or commute 45 minutes each way from Tulsa.

Yesterday I went to an ASCE luncheon where one of the officials from MidAmerican was speaking. I was surprised that much of his presentation was about all the neighborhoods they are building around the park (outside of it, well away from potential major industrial sites). They have apparently built a little commercial district and already have some local restaurants and such that have moved in. They are building northwards into Pryor with a bunch of mixed use areas and have a focus on creating solid quality of life with trail systems, green spaces, and commercial amenities so that people will actually want to live out there. There are plans for hundreds of homes, and many are already under construction.

He also said a major factor in the VW decision was the lack of an intermodal facility to take material off of trains efficiently. Without it, you have to send trains to KC or Dallas and truck them to Pryor, which obviously greatly adds to shipping costs. That's what they meant when they talked about VW needing to be closer to the raw materials. There are plans for an intermodal facility at the park, but it will cost ~$100 million, so it isn't happening soon.

Wow...actual, interesting facts about the VW decision rather than wild speculation that coincidentally fits one's personal perspective. The cited variable makes 100% sense. I've heard that previously has been a potential barrier for other companies looking at the site. I wonder if there is any money to get them such a facility started within the IRA or other available federal funding. That doesn't solve the problem of "no one wanting to live in Pryor," but that problem and the intermodal facility are long-term issues can be put on the path to resolution starting now if intentional plans are put in place.

One huge advantage the Southeast has for the auto industry is easy access to ocean shipping for export markets. The major import/export ports (Baltimore, Jacksonville and Brunswick, GA) are served by CSX railroad which also serves all of the eastern US. VW has huge operation at Baltimore already and they only need one railroad operator to reach the ports. VW also has an assembly plant near Chattanooga which isn't very far from South Carolina.

17942

Oklahoma hasn’t had intermodal, since the BNSF shut down the ramp in OKC at the Flynn yard 15+ years ago. According to my local UPS driver at the time, ‘what is the RR doing?’ I could only say, take your choice! It seem they wanted UPS to pay 1 million a year to keep the ramps open, of course UPS said f**k you and hired 40 new drivers to fill the slots needed to drive the trailers to and from Alliance (Ft Worth). Progress? Southbound pig trains would make their set out, and a yard engine was waiting to couple up and spot on the ramps, 20 minutes or so, and the overhead crane would unload the UPS trailers first, to the waiting brown UPS trucks, and off they would go. O well, as managers would tell us, we didn’t see the ‘whole picture’

Oklahoma hasn’t had intermodal, since the BNSF shut down the ramp in OKC at the Flynn yard 15+ years ago. According to my local UPS driver at the time, ‘what is the RR doing?’ I could only say, take your choice! It seem they wanted UPS to pay 1 million a year to keep the ramps open, of course UPS said f**k you and hired 40 new drivers to fill the slots needed to drive the trailers to and from Alliance (Ft Worth). Progress? Southbound pig trains would make their set out, and a yard engine was waiting to couple up and spot on the ramps, 20 minutes or so, and the overhead crane would unload the UPS trailers first, to the waiting brown UPS trucks, and off they would go. O well, as managers would tell us, we didn’t see the ‘whole picture’

From the Oklahoma Statewide Freight and Passenger Rail Plan:

In 2005, BNSF closed its intermodal terminal in Flynn (adjacent to Oklahoma City) due to a lack of demand. When BNSF closed this terminal, Oklahoma lost its only container transfer facility. At the time of its closing, the terminal processed 1,200 trailers each month but no containers. A viable terminal today handles at least 10,000 containers each month. Since then, Oklahoma rail intermodal shippers have had to move containers by truck to terminals in other states. Dallas-Fort Worth, Kansas City, and Denver each have major intermodal terminals operated by BNSF and UP. Given the relatively short distances to these three metropolitan areas, it is unlikely that one of the major railroads would establish a new intermodal terminal in Oklahoma.

The state may want to rethink that if they want to land one of these large manufacturing plants..