Lennar Homes is based in Miami, Florida and is the largest homebuilder in the U.S., with projects in 21 states.

They recently filed to plat land just north of the new Costco call center and east of Francis Tuttle, proposing 131 single-family lots and four common areas on 19.4712 acres, yielding a gross residential density of 6.73 dwelling units per acre. It will be called Parkway Square.

https://www.lennar.com/

You can be sure they are looking to do many more developments around Central Oklahoma.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lennar022322a.jpg

Wow! It seems like ancient history when I was wiring houses and all the builders were local guys. The biggest of which might have had 5 or 6 houses going at one time.

The housing market in North OKC/Edmond is on fire right now. Houses in the $200k-$450k are selling like hotcakes. Taber, Ideal etc. can't build fast enough.. I heard a stat last week that there were only 25 new homes listed on the MLS, this time last year there were almost 10x that number.

There are still huge sections of mostly empty land north and west of the Kilpatrick Turnpike.

And it seems so many people want new homes now, to get close to what they see on Instagram or HGTV.

Lot inventory is the big bottle neck now, as the home builders are putting them up as quickly as they can. The national players have been working on coming in for 12-18 months now, so the local builders have been buying up as much developmental land as possible.

With the housing prices increasing as quickly as they have been, they're celebrating a broken contract as they are able to get homes resold for prices higher than what they locked in 6 months prior.

Homes on their website have a dr horton look or vibe to them. Is this a quality builder?

At first blush this does not thrill me. We discussed in a different thread about how the all brick and stone construction that is common in OKC is not common other places; it is one of the few areas in which I think the built environment in OK actually rises above that of other cities. This builder is not from OKC and the houses on their website look unimpressive and that neighborhood plat looks really dense, which tells me they will be small starter houses. I know small starter houses are needed but I just wish we could get more uninterrupted areas of higher-end properties instead of the scattershot approach.

Yet another sign of the growing market/economy here in OKC when you have a huge national player like this enter the market.

Pete- are they bigger than DR Horton? DR Horton advertises themselves as the nations largest builder by volume since 2002 and I was under the impression that was still the case. They have of course been here for quite some time. I'm familiar with Lennar on a national level and know they're huge but obviously they haven't been in Oklahoma until now.

Yet another sign of the growing market/economy here in OKC when you have a huge national player like this enter the market.

Pete- are they bigger than DR Horton? DR Horton advertises themselves as the nations largest builder by volume since 2002 and I was under the impression that was still the case. They have of course been here for quite some time. I'm familiar with Lennar on a national level and know they're huge but obviously they haven't been in Oklahoma until now.

I did some research and it would appear that Lennar is number 2, and that might be why they're coming here is to be able to get more inventory out there.

The preliminary plat is on the tomorrows docket via TJA if anyone is curious.

The housing market in North OKC/Edmond is on fire right now. Houses in the $200k-$450k are selling like hotcakes. Taber, Ideal etc. can't build fast enough.. I heard a stat last week that there were only 25 new homes listed on the MLS, this time last year there were almost 10x that number.

As someone who's building in this area now and will sell my existing house in the area in the next few months, this is great to hear. Hopefully it holds, especially once interest rates jump up this year.

These are some small lots! 30 foot wide lots. 3000 sq ft lots

The lots should be fine for anyone wanting a starter home and not caring about yard size. There’s a very similar subdivision directly to the north of Southmoore High School (probably other examples across the Metro, but this is the one that immediately came to mind).

These are some small lots! 30 foot wide lots. 3000 sq ft lots

These smaller homes on tiny lots are selling like hotcakes at outrageous prices compared to older homes. We thought when we bought in July of last year that we were getting hosed on the price (but did great on the sale of our former home). It's like the market said "hold my beer."

The market is inevitably headed towards a correction. I'm concerned that buyers in divisions like this are never going to realize dollar one of equity once that correction takes place. And of course, long term, I would expect that the lack in equity will lead to deferred maintenance, foreclosures and blight in these neighborhoods. Hate to be so negative, but I just can't see a 30-foot wide lot home holding its $300K value in a downturn in the housing market.

The housing market in North OKC/Edmond is on fire right now. Houses in the $200k-$450k are selling like hotcakes. Taber, Ideal etc. can't build fast enough.. I heard a stat last week that there were only 25 new homes listed on the MLS, this time last year there were almost 10x that number.

Currently 158 homes that are either under construction or new builds for sale in the North OKC/Edmond area, depending on your boundaries. An additional 457 are under contract.

65 of those new builds for sale are in the $200-450K range. 331 under contract in that same range.

Currently 2,004 active homes in all of MLS. That's still staggeringly low. 4,219 under contract.

These smaller homes on tiny lots are selling like hotcakes at outrageous prices compared to older homes. We thought when we bought in July of last year that we were getting hosed on the price (but did great on the sale of our former home). It's like the market said "hold my beer."

The market is inevitably headed towards a correction. I'm concerned that buyers in divisions like this are never going to realize dollar one of equity once that correction takes place. And of course, long term, I would expect that the lack in equity will lead to deferred maintenance, foreclosures and blight in these neighborhoods. Hate to be so negative, but I just can't see a 30-foot wide lot home holding its $300K value in a downturn in the housing market.

January new home sales weaker, -4.5% vs. -1.2% est. & +12% in prior month (rev up from +11.9%); median sales price +13.4% y/y to $423,300 … at current sales pace, it would take 6.1 months to exhaust supply of homes, up from 3.6 months a year ago

This is national info and metro areas will vary but I see the start of slowdown. Inflation eats at income needed to buy houses and most are losing that battle even with good pay wage increases inflation is running way higher so its a net loss.

These are some small lots! 30 foot wide lots. 3000 sq ft lots

Maybe they will be building Brownstones or Row Houses?

Maybe they will be building Brownstones or Row Houses?

That’s what I was thinking! 30 foot wide lot is not very much once you add set backs.

I'm thinking row houses too... At first thought it was duplexes but there are blocks with odd numbers and that doesn't work for duplexes.

I'm thinking row houses too... At first thought it was duplexes but there are blocks with odd numbers and that doesn't work for duplexes.

It's single family as per TJA's application; I don't believe our zoning code would allow Row homes as a single family since they're connected....

It's single family as per TJA's application; I don't believe our zoning code would allow Row homes as a single family since they're connected....

The application only states front set backs. Usually there is a 5 foot side set back but this doesn’t have that. ROW houses don’t technically have to touch.

There is a neighborhood in Dallas being built called soho square where they have 3 story row houses that are individual homes. There is enough space to walk between each house but that is about it. I could see something like these being built on these lots.

https://www.megatelhomes.com/community-detail/SoHo-Square-115122

January new home sales weaker, -4.5% vs. -1.2% est. & +12% in prior month (rev up from +11.9%); median sales price +13.4% y/y to $423,300 … at current sales pace, it would take 6.1 months to exhaust supply of homes, up from 3.6 months a year ago

This is national info and metro areas will vary but I see the start of slowdown. Inflation eats at income needed to buy houses and most are losing that battle even with good pay wage increases inflation is running way higher so its a net loss.

We actually just looked at OKC metro inventory this week and compared y/y back to 2017. Inventory in OKC is less than it was at this time last year and actually every year we looked back to. I would agree we should be in the beginning stages of a shift with inflation/interest rates on the rise but as long as inventory is so low and demand continues to outstrip supply it's hard to imagine a correction. We are at historic low levels of inventory here still, less that a couple months supply. National correction in some places inevitable, will be interesting to see what happens here since we've done so well economically and continue to grow. Lot's of people still moving in from out of state as well. Buyers should get some relief as rates & prices continue to rise but it hasn't happened yet. Rates are up ~ 1.25-1.5 % off their lows already but it's still the same story. I'm not selling anything (unless it's brand new or off market) still that's not a multiple offer (have been in 5 multiple offers- all different clients looking for different things) just in the last week and it's only February still and as hot as ever.

^

All great information. Thanks for sharing.

^

All great information. Thanks for sharing.

You bet. I hope people are finding it helpful.

Wasn't there a proposal before planning commission for apartments here? Did that die on the vine?

Wasn't there a proposal before planning commission for apartments here? Did that die on the vine?

Not sure, but the Lennar plans were filed just in the last two weeks.

We actually just looked at OKC metro inventory this week and compared y/y back to 2017. Inventory in OKC is less than it was at this time last year and actually every year we looked back to. I would agree we should be in the beginning stages of a shift with inflation/interest rates on the rise but as long as inventory is so low and demand continues to outstrip supply it's hard to imagine a correction. We are at historic low levels of inventory here still, less that a couple months supply. National correction in some places inevitable, will be interesting to see what happens here since we've done so well economically and continue to grow. Lot's of people still moving in from out of state as well. Buyers should get some relief as rates & prices continue to rise but it hasn't happened yet. Rates are up ~ 1.25-1.5 % off their lows already but it's still the same story. I'm not selling anything (unless it's brand new or off market) still that's not a multiple offer (have been in 5 multiple offers- all different clients looking for different things) just in the last week and it's only February still and as hot as ever.

I've written 35 offers for 6 clients since Jan 1 and haven't landed a single one yet. Stupid money everywhere.

^

Holy cow.

In my neighborhood, there have been a bunch of flips that were marginal homes with marginal renovations and they've been selling between $160 and $170 / SF.

The last one didn't even have a garage (or a converted garage).

I've written 35 offers for 6 clients since Jan 1 and haven't landed a single one yet. Stupid money everywhere.

Wow, that is insane. Rarely do I get past 5-6 offers with someone before we land one. My experience is that at that point it's on them as they're not willing to play by the market rules or just not well qualified enough to win and will have to wait. I don't know how reluctant you are to cut a client loose but sometimes it's 100% a necessary evil. A few bad clients can really screw up the good ones when they come along. I was pretty fortunate that I got 3 out of the 5 accepted since last week.

We actually just looked at OKC metro inventory this week and compared y/y back to 2017. Inventory in OKC is less than it was at this time last year and actually every year we looked back to. I would agree we should be in the beginning stages of a shift with inflation/interest rates on the rise but as long as inventory is so low and demand continues to outstrip supply it's hard to imagine a correction. We are at historic low levels of inventory here still, less that a couple months supply. National correction in some places inevitable, will be interesting to see what happens here since we've done so well economically and continue to grow. Lot's of people still moving in from out of state as well. Buyers should get some relief as rates & prices continue to rise but it hasn't happened yet. Rates are up ~ 1.25-1.5 % off their lows already but it's still the same story. I'm not selling anything (unless it's brand new or off market) still that's not a multiple offer (have been in 5 multiple offers- all different clients looking for different things) just in the last week and it's only February still and as hot as ever.


Good info. I think in time even here it catches up based on price increases and inflationary headwinds. If people are moving from higher cost areas and sold house at old city (at a very high price in comparison to our prices) they would be able to afford. But how will local buyers with less income afford the much higher prices. We did weather the last downturn well but prices weren’t spiked as much as now.

Here’s another chart over time, again its national amd not always reflective of OKC metro. Blue is medium price and orange is supply of houses. Chart is from 2000-current:

17354

Good info. I think in time even here it catches up based on price increases and inflationary headwinds. If people are moving from higher cost areas and sold house at old city (at a very high price in comparison to our prices) they would be able to afford. But how will local buyers with less income afford the much higher prices. We did weather the last downturn well but prices weren’t spiked as much as now.

Here’s another chart over time, again its national amd not always reflective of OKC metro. Blue is medium price and orange is supply of houses. Chart is from 2000-current:

17354

I agree that things will level off once interest rates along with ongoing price increases force people out of the market. Unfortunately for a lot of locals I think they either have to stay put in their current home instead of moving up or are forced to be long term renters. We still have one of the lowest national housing prices so really only one way to go IMO with a growing city and economy. My guess is on a more normalized growth rate, 3-4%, rather than a correction. I just don't see it happening here. Keep in mind also there is a much, much larger % of cash buyers and investors in the market. Not all of whom are necessarily local. Without looking I'm guessing I did 20-25 deals last year straight cash. I'd say roughly 30% of buyers are all cash now- pre pandemic I'd say that might have been 10% if I had to guess. Most of the others were pretty well qualified buyers who had a lot of cash to work with in order to win in aggressive situations. The days of first time buyers/FHA/VA loans getting into a home with little to no cash have been virtually non existent unless it's a brand new build.

We live in such a crazy world with so much uncertainty now that it's almost hard to put much stock into any historical data IMO. Our average price is about 1/2 the national average based on that chart and our inventory is about 1/3 national average and that's going to take some time to balance out. It can't stay like this forever but I think we just return to more of a balanced market and buyers get a touch of relief when things do settle. We'll see. Truth is none of us know or can time the market or we'd all be so rich we wouldn't be posting about it in here.

Looks like Lennar homes is trying to build in Canadian county also. SW 15th and County line Road.

173561735617356

Looks like Lennar homes is trying to build in Canadian county also. SW 15th and County line Road.

173561735617356

Any way we can see an enlarged version of those? I'd like to try and count up the number of houses they would like to build there.

507 lots17357

507 lots17357

That's crazy. That's just like the planned addition by Overholser with over 500 lots, and then the one just to the north probably has over 300.

This is trash and I really wish the city was just barely progressive enough to just reject property development from companies like this. Cool ... headline of this thread may as well be "garbage tract housing manufacturer to build hundreds of cookie cutter cracker boxes on the far northern sprawl zone near Edmond schools" lol gross

Just thinking (typing) out loud. If my wife and I didn't love our house so much. And if an addition of smallish houses on smallish lots were quality, well built houses. We would be all over one. Simplicity is the key word we look for in life at this point. And a lot of our people we're around feel the same.

Just thinking (typing) out loud. If my wife and I didn't love our house so much. And if an addition of smallish houses on smallish lots were quality, well built houses. We would be all over one. Simplicity is the key word we look for in life at this point. And a lot of our people we're around feel the same.

Oh no, small is fine, it's not about small, it's about prefab housing made of cheap materials that will not age well being built in high density for no other purpose than profit in far flung sprawl zones. It's just crappy non innovative development that you see carpeting the far flung exoburbs outside of a ton of huge cities, when the type of people that want these (people that only buy new, low $/SF houses) find a new focus, these will just be turning in to another dilapidated sketchy neighborhood,OKC is already surrounded by the husks of middle class white flight-ers once they've decide a new place is better. If this development was infill I might think it was clever, but both of these filings are for way way way way out parts of okc that honestly we shouldn't be encouraging, paying for, continuing to develop and this is putting HUNDREDS of lots out there. hard pass. What is the point of buying density if it's empty fields on all sides of you?!?! If they can view grazing cattle from their window (with rare exceptions) they don't live in a city and I'm tired of paying for their road maintenance.

Just thinking (typing) out loud. If my wife and I didn't love our house so much. And if an addition of smallish houses on smallish lots were quality, well built houses. We would be all over one. Simplicity is the key word we look for in life at this point. And a lot of our people we're around feel the same.

McCaleb homes in edmond has been doing houses like that. Quality Smaller homes, smaller lots. No yard maintenance required as they handle the little lots as part of an annual HOA fee that isn’t too high either.

This is trash and I really wish the city was just barely progressive enough to just reject property development from companies like this. Cool ... headline of this thread may as well be "garbage tract housing manufacturer to build hundreds of cookie cutter cracker boxes on the far northern sprawl zone near Edmond schools" lol gross

And then in the same breath you probably ask why housing is so expensive. All types of housing are welcome, wanted and needed in all growing metros right now. Build baby build!

Good luck getting garage doors.

If I were a builder theses days. I'd just turn the garages into a storage room, since that's what most people use their garages for anyway, and crank'em out.

@pete Can you possibly find the details on the development going in on the north east corner of 122nd and Morgan? Seems that Lennar owns that land as well and there are earth movers working as we speak.

@pete Can you possibly find the details on the development going in on the north east corner of 122nd and Morgan? Seems that Lennar owns that land as well and there are earth movers working as we speak.

Yes, will be a Lennar single-home development.