https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-step-sports-betting-casinos/39167209

"It is important to note that this bill if it becomes law, would not include the very popular online sports betting. However, Luttrell said that if his bill is successful, it is only a matter of time until online joins the gaming landscape."

This is my beef. If someone wants to go to the casino book and make a bet, then yes, the tribes should get their cut. However, if barstool sports, betmgm, ect want to come in with the app they should be allowed to do so to and not be a part of the tribes. They will still pay their share to the state just like the tribes do.

When I was in Arizona a few weeks back, I used Barstool sports app. I am pretty sure Casinos can only be on tribal land there as well. Both can co-exist.

The lack of online is really disappointing. However, I think that in Arizona the mobile wagering is thru the tribes and they have just contracted deals with outside groups like Barstool, Draftkings, etc. I know originally their mobile wagering was limited to 10 tribes. This could have changed but that was my understanding initially.

The lack of online is really disappointing. However, I think that in Arizona the mobile wagering is thru the tribes and they have just contracted deals with outside groups like Barstool, Draftkings, etc. I know originally their mobile wagering was limited to 10 tribes. This could have changed but that was my understanding initially.

Thanks for the input. That would make some sense. I guess not to have it right off the bat is disappointing. Great for Winstar. Great for Tulsa residents since their casinos are much closer to the population. Bad for OKC and just about everyone else who isn't close to one.

Seems like a big miss to not include online. I can't imagine most people going to the casino just to sports bet, unless they were someone that already went to the casinos.

the interview from the drafter of the bill on KOCO 10pm news indicated that if this passes it will only be a matter of time before its allowed online or via app.

the interview from the drafter of the bill on KOCO 10pm news indicated that if this passes it will only be a matter of time before its allowed online or via app.

That would be consistent with a lot of states. Arkansas for example rolled out in person and are just now ready to expand to mobile platform with a goal of having it launched by March Madness.

When it happens, get ready to be inundated with sports betting app adds.

the interview from the drafter of the bill on KOCO 10pm news indicated that if this passes it will only be a matter of time before its allowed online or via app.

Nice.

When it happens, get ready to be inundated with sports betting app adds.
Really! And it's something I'm not going to do. I'm all for it but way too often when I bet FB games in my head I lose.

When it happens, get ready to be inundated with sports betting app adds.

Pretty interesting article on this topic. The numbers are pretty staggering especially in a state like NY.

https://sportshandle.com/caesars-shelving-ad-campaign

"Sun Sets On Oklahoma Sports Betting Legislation In 2023"
https://www.legalsportsreport.com/112062/2023-hopes-die-oklahoma-sports-betting/

What a joke.

Traber went off about it today. The state is losing millions.

“too many unresolved issues that ultimately killed it this year.”

Like what? Why he so goddamn ambiguous. Spell it out. They also didn’t make any headway on eliminating the grocery store tax either. Something the governor supports. If Access Oklahoma fails he’ll really a bad legacy of not being able to get the things done he advocated for. Looks like Panasonic will happen he can boast about.

“too many unresolved issues that ultimately killed it this year.”

Like what? Why he so goddamn ambiguous. Spell it out. They also didn’t make any headway on eliminating the grocery store tax either. Something the governor supports. If Access Oklahoma fails he’ll really a bad legacy of not being able to get the things done he advocated for. Looks like Panasonic will happen he can boast about.

Calm down! You can't blend all of these issues into one big finger point at the governor, there are other factors involved.

I would guess that Traber has to be somewhat ambiguous, considering he is on a radio station that makes a ton of money from advertisements from the Indian casinos. It seems pretty obvious to me that the tribes didn't want to have to pay the going rate other sports betting operators pay in most states. Personally, I wish that it was a free and open market to outside companies. The fact that everything regarding sports betting is essentially online, why do the tribes have control?

Calm down! You can't blend all of these issues into one big finger point at the governor, there are other factors involved.

I would guess that Traber has to be somewhat ambiguous, considering he is on a radio station that makes a ton of money from advertisements from the Indian casinos. It seems pretty obvious to me that the tribes didn't want to have to pay the going rate other sports betting operators pay in most states. Personally, I wish that it was a free and open market to outside companies. The fact that everything regarding sports betting is essentially online, why do the tribes have control?
I’m just saying a lot of what the governor has tried to do has failed. Just pointing it out.

Calm down! You can't blend all of these issues into one big finger point at the governor, there are other factors involved.

I would guess that Traber has to be somewhat ambiguous, considering he is on a radio station that makes a ton of money from advertisements from the Indian casinos. It seems pretty obvious to me that the tribes didn't want to have to pay the going rate other sports betting operators pay in most states. Personally, I wish that it was a free and open market to outside companies. The fact that everything regarding sports betting is essentially online, why do the tribes have control?

The Tribes want it. The governor has said he wants it. It has passed the house. Like pass it already.

The Tribes want it. The governor has said he wants it. It has passed the house. Like pass it already.

Why are you so sure the tribes want it? In the grand scheme of things, the amount of money they would make from sports betting is a drop in the bucket compared to casino gaming. Also, they would have to keep open books for sports betting. As of now, they aren’t subject to state audits or any regulations. Vegas max %hold is probably 10% or so and is highly regulated. The amount the tribes take is most likely astronomical.

I heard an interview with a senator on the way to work. Didn't catch his name. He said too many senators aren't comfortable expanding wagering laws until Stitt and the tribes work out who controls what once and for all. So both sides need to get over their power struggles and get it done.

I’m just saying a lot of what the governor has tried to do has failed. Just pointing it out.

*warning, blatant political opinion post

Well i'm ok with anything governor turd does, mostly failing. Trump Jr is also a disgrace. If he can't convince his own party of something, he stands no chance crossing the aisle. But he's never been interested in that anyway, rather only trying to make people do what he wants for his own special interests. Master cronyism douche.
*steps off soapbox

As for betting, maybe including the online option is part of what's needed to get this moving the next time. Remember how it took a forced ballot measure by the people to override the state legislature preventing the lottery to be put on a ballot. Every time they fail to listen to their constituents and something gets on the ballot, they try their hardest to prevent it from happening again....cause you know, they must know better than the people very obviously telling them that they do not. I dont think there's enough of a push for this as for, say, recreational marijuana. So no i dont see this going to a people ballot measure. I just mention all of that because the nit-picking seems to be where the committee/floor debate is going.

So, I guess it's OK to voice "blatant political opinions" now? Man, I've got a load of constipated opinions just waiting.

*warning, blatant political opinion post

Well i'm ok with anything governor turd does, mostly failing. Trump Jr is also a disgrace. If he can't convince his own party of something, he stands no chance crossing the aisle. But he's never been interested in that anyway, rather only trying to make people do what he wants for his own special interests. Master cronyism douche.
*steps off soapbox

As for betting, maybe including the online option is part of what's needed to get this moving the next time. Remember how it took a forced ballot measure by the people to override the state legislature preventing the lottery to be put on a ballot. Every time they fail to listen to their constituents and something gets on the ballot, they try their hardest to prevent it from happening again....cause you know, they must know better than the people very obviously telling them that they do not. I dont think there's enough of a push for this as for, say, recreational marijuana. So no i dont see this going to a people ballot measure. I just mention all of that because the nit-picking seems to be where the committee/floor debate is going.
According to the bill's author it would have included "remote betting" . Is that not online betting?

"According to Luttrell, HB 1027 would add in-person as well as mobile sports betting as a supplement to the state-tribal model gaming compact.

Mobile Betting was included.

As long as Greg Treat is around, this will never get out of the senate. He has been against it from the beginning.

As for the tribes, as someone mentioned it would be a small bucket for them. Why take such a hard stance on it? Unless they are using it as leverage to get a better deal done.

I know a ton of people who pop up to Kansas or over to Arkansas to make bets. I got to Vegas a handful of times each year to bet, among other things. I'd prob stick around if this passes. More money just going to other states. Everyone loses.

I think Senator Treat is termed out and this is his last session.

I don't see any reason for the tribes to make a high overhead (tax) deal. Sports betting has a low margin already, and I think any tax is gonna make our payouts lower. Our gaming compacts have been pretty close to the Nevada numbers. I think staying close to the 6.75% Nevada tax rate is fair.

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt wants sports betting legalized this year: https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/oklahoma-gov-kevin-stitt-wants-sports-betting-legalized-this-year/article_a7d2e092-98e4-11ed-b49b-677b43c80dcb.html

That article aged poorly

That article aged poorly

Why? Stitt didn't prevent a bill from being approved. he would have signed it no question.

Sure, he has ruffled the feathers of the tribes, but they are also in favor of this, and the legislature is using Stitt as a scapegoat in this situation.

https://cdcgaming.com/oklahoma-the-battle-for-sports-betting/?fbclid=IwAR3IVFQ4BtiFbCu6vanEpKu5uELhXsBzKc7kL7sr 07K3MhJXwjZ8xUYpnpg

People have used Arizona as an example and it is perfect. If you are even near Talking Stick, the Barstool/MGM/Caesers apps won't work until you are away from tribal land--why can't that happen here? Stitt didn't even get the option to sign/veto this bill. Such a joke from both the government and tribes that they can't get this done. The tribes need the revenue just as much as the state does.

Personally, I don't think the tribes should have a single thing to do with online gambling.

^ why shouldn’t tribes have anything to do with online gambling?

^ why shouldn’t tribes have anything to do with online gambling?

I'm guessing because he thinks the state is missing out on tons of revenues by going through the tribes, when they could just have the state issue gaming licenses for these to businesses. Why should we be held captive by the tribes for all of our gambling wants? I don't care either way, but it feels like putting the eggs all in one basket can backfire.

I'm guessing because he thinks the state is missing out on tons of revenues by going through the tribes, when they could just have the state issue gaming licenses for these to businesses. Why should we be held captive by the tribes for all of our gambling wants? I don't care either way, but it feels like putting the eggs all in one basket can backfire.

Nail:head.

I'm guessing because he thinks the state is missing out on tons of revenues by going through the tribes, when they could just have the state issue gaming licenses for these to businesses. Why should we be held captive by the tribes for all of our gambling wants? I don't care either way, but it feels like putting the eggs all in one basket can backfire.

If the state legalizes sports betting generally, the tribes can also then have sports betting. And the tribes will pay no taxes on the revenue.

If the state legalizes sports betting generally, the tribes can also then have sports betting. And the tribes will pay no taxes on the revenue.

Good. I'm fine with that. More options the better.

Yeah this shouldn't be hard. Just a lot of grandstanding and the general public are the ones who suffer while money keeps leaving the state.

Yeah this shouldn't be hard. Just a lot of grandstanding and the general public are the ones who suffer while money keeps leaving the state.

The 110 tribal casinos in Oklahoma will dominate the sports betting market in that case and the state will get nothing from any of them.

The 110 tribal casinos in Oklahoma will dominate the sports betting market in that case and the state will get nothing from any of them.

They can't do anything without state approval. Why else would they still pay taxes to the state of there wasn't something forcing them to?

They will get none of the market until the state allows one, I believe.

They can't do anything without state approval. Why else would they still pay taxes to the state of there wasn't something forcing them to?

They will get none of the market until the state allows one, I believe.

You misunderstand. If the state comes into a compact with the tribes they will pay the state whatever fee the compact agrees to for the right to conduct sports betting. And part of that compact will be that the state will not legalize sports betting outside of the tribes' compact.

If the state legalizes sports betting in non-tribal areas in any way, it is then legal for the tribes and they don't have to agree to pay the state anything. And with their massive gambling infrastructure in Oklahoma they will dominate the sports betting industry.

And let's be clear, the tribes DO NOT pay taxes to the state of Oklahoma.

You misunderstand. If the state comes into a compact with the tribes they will pay the state whatever fee the compact agrees to for the right to conduct sports betting. And part of that compact will be that the state will not legalize sports betting outside of the tribes' compact.

If the state legalizes sports betting in non-tribal areas in any way, it is then legal for the tribes and they don't have to agree to pay the state anything. And with their massive gambling infrastructure in Oklahoma they will dominate the sports betting industry.

And let's be clear, the tribes DO NOT pay taxes to the state of Oklahoma.

I really don’t think that is correct. They have brick and mortar casinos, but if mobile gaming is passed, then they have no advantage at all. In fact, they are at a disadvantage because they don’t have a mobile sports betting platform, professional line makers, management, etc. If the law passed, MGM, Caesar’s, and multiple others, could be up and running in no time. There is absolutely no reason to drive to a casino to bet on a game, just open your phone app, deposit money and bet.

And let's be clear, the tribes DO NOT pay taxes to the state of Oklahoma.

They do pay multiple types of tobacco taxes to the state of Oklahoma. At one time they negotiated future rates, and IIRC here in a few years the rates will be pretty much be equal among the tribes.

I really don’t think that is correct. They have brick and mortar casinos, but if mobile gaming is passed, then they have no advantage at all. In fact, they are at a disadvantage because they don’t have a mobile sports betting platform, professional line makers, management, etc. If the law passed, MGM, Caesar’s, and multiple others, could be up and running in no time. There is absolutely no reason to drive to a casino to bet on a game, just open your phone app, deposit money and bet.

this is the issue .. the tribes stance is that no gaming is legal ever in Oklahoma outside of them .. .and their compacts NEVER go away/expire .. ...

The Tribes have the experience, infrastructure, and knowledge to implement and manage sport betting. The key is to negotiate a fair and equitable compact for the State.

The Tribes have the experience, infrastructure, and knowledge to implement and manage sport betting. The key is to negotiate a fair and equitable compact for the State.

What are you basing this on? What experience and betting platform have the tribes used and fined tuned over the last several years?

I don’t think you are familiar with how many other states implement sports betting. In many states, as long as you’re in the geographical boundaries of the state, you just download the app, deposit money, then bet on games. Some states require you to physically go to the sports book to open an account and fund the initial deposit. Other than that, you don’t have to go to the casino to bet on games. It’s unrealistic to think a person in Edmond who wants to bet on a game, will happily drive to Norman to do so.

If they go mobile betting, the tribes will have to develop an app platform and hire in house line setters. It is completely different than operating slots and blackjack. Odds are if they somehow work a deal out, they will probably just hire a 3rd party company like DraftKings, to run everything.

If they go mobile betting, the tribes will have to develop an app platform and hire in house line setters. It is completely different than operating slots and blackjack. Odds are if they somehow work a deal out, they will probably just hire a 3rd party company like DraftKings, to run everything.

You make some good points....I've actually worked with one of the major Tribes and personally witnessed their ability to coordinate with experts to implement high tech solutions. I suspect they could accomplish the task. The key is to get together with Oklahoma experts and negotiate a compact that would be fair to the Tribes and the State. I actually would trust the Tribes over some State Agency.

You make some good points....I've actually worked with one of the major Tribes and personally witnessed their ability to coordinate with experts to implement high tech solutions. I suspect they could accomplish the task. The key is to get together with Oklahoma experts and negotiate a compact that would be fair to the Tribes and the State. I actually would trust the Tribes over some State Agency.

I am not saying that the Tribes can't get together and come up with the infrastructure and platform for betting, they are obviously pretty savvy. I am just saying that they really aren't needed due to the ease of using mobile apps and online betting. Regarding trust, I could argue a company like Draftkings or MGM would be pretty ideal. They are publicly traded and subject to all kinds of regulations and oversight. Plus they operate in half the states, so they could roll out in the snap of the finger if a law was passed.

I am not saying that the Tribes can't get together and come up with the infrastructure and platform for betting, they are obviously pretty savvy. I am just saying that they really aren't needed due to the ease of using mobile apps and online betting. Regarding trust, I could argue a company like Draftkings or MGM would be pretty ideal. They are publicly traded and subject to all kinds of regulations and oversight. Plus they operate in half the states, so they could roll out in the snap of the finger if a law was passed.

I agree, maybe some kind of agreement between Draftkings or MGM with the tribes serving as the "controllers." The State doesn't really have the knowledge or personnel to oversee one of these companies.

Stitt was on the Sports Animal yesterday promoting a bill he wrote that will go up for vote in February.

He called it a "free market" approach to sports betting. Basically anyone can open a sports book, either an online sports book or physical location, for a cut going back to the state.

He also said the Tribes have no influence whether this passes or not. It is legislature.

I am not a political expert, but I don't see how the Tribes would not be involved. I am sure special interest groups are going to claw their way in somehow.

Stitt says a lot of things that are not reality based. Stitt also said he could write his own new gaming compacts. That is just one example.

Stitt says a lot of things that are not reality based. Stitt also said he could write his own new gaming compacts. That is just one example.

Agree. I think the only people who agree with the Governor’s position on this are PBS….Paid By Still.

Stitt was on the Sports Animal yesterday promoting a bill he wrote that will go up for vote in February.

He called it a "free market" approach to sports betting. Basically anyone can open a sports book, either an online sports book or physical location, for a cut going back to the state.

He also said the Tribes have no influence whether this passes or not. It is legislature.

I am not a political expert, but I don't see how the Tribes would not be involved. I am sure special interest groups are going to claw their way in somehow.

In a business so directly involved with fungible $, it is assured "special interest groups" will get involved.

https://oklahoma.gov/governor/newsroom/newsroom/2023/november2023/governor-stitt-announces-plan-to-bring-sports-betting-to-oklahom.html

https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/governor/documents/Sportsbetting%20Updated.pdf

the 15% tax for in person and 20% for online puts OK within the "norm" of sports gambling nation wide

for those that want to be informed https://www.investopedia.com/sports-betting-laws-by-state-5219064#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20the%20Supreme%20Cou rt,federal%20level%20legalizing%20the%20activity

Arkansas 13% on all up to 150mil then 20% on all
Pennsylvania is 36% tax
Rhode island is 51% tax
tennessee is 20%
virginia is 15%
new hampshire is 50%
delaware is 50%
maryland is 15%
illinois is 15-17 %
connecticut 13.75 %
Louisiana 10% 15% online
nebraska 20%
jersey 9.75 14.25 online
new york 10 % in person 51% online


yes there are some that are lower 10% ohio colorado arizona DC 9.5 Indiana iowa 6.5 michigan 8.4 mississippi 11-12%

Holy sh!t on the 50 percent taxes

Genuine question so be gentle. Since it became federally allowed in 2018 where states can determine their own sports betting laws, why does that have anything to do with the tribes? I look at it as their compacts with the state have to do with the casinos and those type of games. If sports betting is federally allowed, why do they need to be involved at all? Who is stopping BetMGM, Caesars, Barstool, ect from coming in and setting up shop?

Genuine question so be gentle. Since it became federally allowed in 2018 where states can determine their own sports betting laws, why does that have anything to do with the tribes? I look at it as their compacts with the state have to do with the casinos and those type of games. If sports betting is federally allowed, why do they need to be involved at all? Who is stopping BetMGM, Caesars, Barstool, ect from coming in and setting up shop?

Gambling in general is federally allowed. Yet here we are, having to negotiate with the tribes for everything. So I think any and all gambling issues are up to whatever precedent is present in each state. In Oklahoma, precedent is to have the tribes run all gambling operations, so that will have to continue for sports betting.

Genuine question so be gentle. Since it became federally allowed in 2018 where states can determine their own sports betting laws, why does that have anything to do with the tribes? I look at it as their compacts with the state have to do with the casinos and those type of games. If sports betting is federally allowed, why do they need to be involved at all? Who is stopping BetMGM, Caesars, Barstool, ect from coming in and setting up shop?

because we have federalism and states are allowed to make their own laws .. sports betting is not "federally legal" it is just not federally illegal anymore


as far as the tribes go they view themselves as the only allowed gambling (except for state lotto) in the entire state

as far as the tribes go they view themselves as the only allowed gambling (except for state lotto) in the entire state
This is factually incorrect. There are bingo halls not under the auspices of the tribes as well as betting on horse races that are not under tribal authorities either.

This is factually incorrect. There are bingo halls not under the auspices of the tribes as well as betting on horse races that are not under tribal authorities either.

ok sorry except for bingo lotto and horse racing (and slots at the horse track )

ok sorry except for bingo lotto and horse racing (and slots at the horse track )

You're getting closer. But the casino at Remington is owned and operated by the Chickasaw Nation.

You're getting closer. But the casino at Remington is owned and operated by the Chickasaw Nation.

Yes, but it is operated outside of the tribal gaming system. I think the Chickasaw own and operate it as "Global Gaming", or something like that. The rules are structured in a way that allows horse tracks to stay solvent in Oklahoma. I think the original Racino operator at Remington Park was Frank Stronach, A Canadian/Austrian who is huge in auto parts and manufacturing, etc. Usually operates under the Magna name. He did most of the heavy lifting to get the Racino approved for Remington, and sold because of a family business struggle IIRC.

I think the tax rate on Sports Betting in Nevada is 6.75%. I also think Nevada has the most successful gambling industry in America. Sports betting is an incredibly low profit margin business, so this one of those instances where I am a low tax cheerleader.