Yes, but it is operated outside of the tribal gaming system. I think the Chickasaw own and operate it as "Global Gaming", or something like that. The rules are structured in a way that allows horse tracks to stay solvent in Oklahoma. I think the original Racino operator at Remington Park was Frank Stronach, A Canadian/Austrian who is huge in auto parts and manufacturing, etc. Usually operates under the Magna name. He did most of the heavy lifting to get the Racino approved for Remington, and sold because of a family business struggle IIRC.Actually where I looked this up shows that all of the Chickasaw owned casinos are run under the Global Gaming entity.

Actually where I looked this up shows that all of the Chickasaw owned casinos are run under the Global Gaming entity.

the "RACEINO" at remington was in place before the tribe owned Remington

it was allowed to help support the horse industry and keep in afloat ..

that is why it only has slots and not any other type of gaming .. Anyone that owned Remington park would be allowed to operate it

Actually where I looked this up shows that all of the Chickasaw owned casinos are run under the Global Gaming entity.

I'm guessing Global Gaming is the gambling company owned by the tribe, and each casino is a separate entity owned by Global Gaming.

Regardless, Racinos in Oklahoma are not compacted tribal casinos. However, I recall Oklahoma had to modify the tribal gaming compacts in order to get tribal sign off on the concept.

I'm guessing Global Gaming is the gambling company owned by the tribe, and each casino is a separate entity owned by Global Gaming.

Regardless, Racinos in Oklahoma are not compacted tribal casinos. However, I recall Oklahoma had to modify the tribal gaming compacts in order to get tribal sign off on the concept.
Ok. Learned something.

I'm guessing Global Gaming is the gambling company owned by the tribe, and each casino is a separate entity owned by Global Gaming.

Regardless, Racinos in Oklahoma are not compacted tribal casinos. However, I recall Oklahoma had to modify the tribal gaming compacts in order to get tribal sign off on the concept.

state question 712 in 2004
https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State-Tribal_Gaming,_State_Question_712_(2004)#:~:text=T he%20Oklahoma%20State%2DTribal%20Gaming,gaming%20m achines%20and%20card%20games.

it allow tribes to addition slot games and cards ..

and if 4 tribes agreed it let racetrack use some electronic slots ..

the current compacts with the tribes say they are the only ones that can offer gambling ... they say those compacts auto renew ( stitt sued the state lost in lower court and didnt' appeal .... the state should appeal that all the way ..

If the state legalized gambling, then the tribes would be free to have casinos and pay the state nothing. The compacts are agreements where the state allows the tribes to have exclusive rights to allow gambling in Oklahoma in exchange to the state receiving a percentage of the revenue. Stitt is an idiot to try to undo this arrangement.

As an added bonus, all the revenue from tribal casinos stays in Oklahoma, instead of going out of state to large corporations. The tribes then spend the money on project like Okana. A win-win.

If the state legalized gambling, then the tribes would be free to have casinos and pay the state nothing. The compacts are agreements where the state allows the tribes to have exclusive rights to allow gambling in Oklahoma in exchange to the state receiving a percentage of the revenue. Stitt is an idiot to try to undo this arrangement.

As an added bonus, all the revenue from tribal casinos stays in Oklahoma, instead of going out of state to large corporations. The tribes then spend the money on project like Okana. A win-win.

This^.

I hate to say it but sports betting really troubles me.

Anyone with a phone can now bet on some semi-pro tennis match in the Middle East, as well as a thousand bets within an NFL game or other pro sports. It seems the crazy popularity of fantasy football leagues has become a gateway into betting on anything remotely competitive.

I get that some people like to go to a casino and throw their money away -- at least they are going somewhere and getting some entertainment value. But laying in bed betting on every tiny little move in every single sport on earth seems like a recipe for disaster, especially because everyone knows that you are going to lose and many will lose big.

I don't see the benefit to society while the cost is well known and can now expand exponentially. This all feels much, much more dangerous than someone blowing a few grand in Vegas over a weekend.

I hate to say it but sports betting really troubles me.

Anyone with a phone can now bet on some semi-pro tennis match in the Middle East, as well as a thousand bets within an NFL game or other pro sports. It seems the crazy popularity of fantasy football leagues has become a gateway into betting on anything remotely competitive.

I get that some people like to go to a casino and throw their money away -- at least they are going somewhere and getting some entertainment value. But laying in bed betting on every tiny little move in every single sport on earth seems like a recipe for disaster, especially because everyone knows that you are going to lose and many will lose big.

I don't see the benefit to society while the cost is well known and can now expand exponentially. This all feels much, much more dangerous than someone blowing a few grand in Vegas over a weekend.

I agree with you, I believe it should be legalized but at the same time, I believe it needs way more regulation. It's become too common to hear it spoken about during games, betting odds displayed on screen during games, 30-second ad spots every commercial break, etc. It should be legal but it needs advertisement restrictions as without I agree it's a recipe for disaster for gambling addicts.

I would be on board with advertisement restrictions on gambling AND on big pharma.
I think I read we are one of only a few countries (maybe the only country) that allows for advertisment of drugs

I agree with you, I believe it should be legalized but at the same time, I believe it needs way more regulation. It's become too common to hear it spoken about during games, betting odds displayed on screen during games, 30-second ad spots every commercial break, etc. It should be legal but it needs advertisement restrictions as without I agree it's a recipe for disaster for gambling addicts.

Turn on sports radio and half the time it is just a couple of guys talking about betting on sports.

The whole thing already feels out of control and we are just getting started.

I would be on board with advertisement restrictions on gambling AND on big pharma.
I think I read we are one of only a few countries (maybe the only country) that allows for advertisment of drugs

Letting big pharma advertise was a mistake.

I hate to say it but sports betting really troubles me.

Anyone with a phone can now bet on some semi-pro tennis match in the Middle East, as well as a thousand bets within an NFL game or other pro sports. It seems the crazy popularity of fantasy football leagues has become a gateway into betting on anything remotely competitive.

I get that some people like to go to a casino and throw their money away -- at least they are going somewhere and getting some entertainment value. But laying in bed betting on every tiny little move in every single sport on earth seems like a recipe for disaster, especially because everyone knows that you are going to lose and many will lose big.

I don't see the benefit to society while the cost is well known and can now expand exponentially. This all feels much, much more dangerous than someone blowing a few grand in Vegas over a weekend.

not going to comment on the pro or con aspects ...

but just going to point out that the ability to bet with an internet connection on events world wide has been going on for 20 years now ..

If the state legalized gambling, then the tribes would be free to have casinos and pay the state nothing. The compacts are agreements where the state allows the tribes to have exclusive rights to allow gambling in Oklahoma in exchange to the state receiving a percentage of the revenue. Stitt is an idiot to try to undo this arrangement.

As an added bonus, all the revenue from tribal casinos stays in Oklahoma, instead of going out of state to large corporations. The tribes then spend the money on project like Okana. A win-win.

the tribes compacts don't allow ANYONE else in the state to offer gambling at all ..

that is the issue .. even if a vote by the people legalized gambling the tribes position is that no one else could offer any gambling except them ..

Turn on sports radio and half the time it is just a couple of guys talking about betting on sports.

The whole thing already feels out of control and we are just getting started.

Nothing like listening to an NBA podcast and there’s a 30-second betting ad followed by 45 seconds of them listing gambling addiction hotlines.

Fantasy football really took off when online sites started providing all the management tools needed for leagues and teams. I used to do it when we had to track all that stuff by hand and it was fun, but a pretty small thing with little money involved.

Now, I know tons of people who care way, way more about their fantasy team than they do about the NFL or any particular team. In fact, I'd say that is true for most of my friends and the main reason I stopped doing fantasy: I'm a sports fan first and foremost and I didn't want my gambling to take precedence.

Now, with so many people involved and already used to doing everything online, in steps DraftKings and FanDuel and a thousand other sites.


As this segment in 60 Minutes notes, it was a federal court decision in 2018 that really cracked open the floodgates.

And it's young people who are already addicted to their smartphones that seem to be the target of all the ads. I bet we are soon going to learn that a ton of college kids are getting themselves into deep trouble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsLu0CWcgk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsLu0CWcgk

the tribes compacts don't allow ANYONE else in the state to offer gambling at all ..

that is the issue .. even if a vote by the people legalized gambling the tribes position is that no one else could offer any gambling except them ..

That is the contractual point of the compacts. The tribes give many millions from casino revenue to the state in exchange for exclusivity. If the state were to allow gambling beyond what is allowed in the compacts, the tribes would have no reason to pay the state anything from tribal casinos. And the state cannot tax the tribes or tribal lands. The state would get nothing.

Recent stink in Colorado is the blatant effort by some sports betting entities to market betting to late teen/early 20s age group.

This report highlights how huge sports betting has become on college campuses and how the big sites target young men.

Again, I don't see the benefit to society, especially given the extreme downside.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__ce6l6Kgo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6__ce6l6Kgo

not going to comment on the pro or con aspects ...

but just going to point out that the ability to bet with an internet connection on events world wide has been going on for 20 years now ..

Thank you. People act as if sports gambling is some new, fancy concept.

Thank you. People act as if sports gambling is some new, fancy concept.

There are a ton of things that have recently changed, mostly notably sports betting being legalized in the U.S. in 2018.

Then huge companies set up sites and started advertising like crazy.


Almost none of that existed 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 20.

I would be on board with advertisement restrictions on gambling AND on big pharma.
I think I read we are one of only a few countries (maybe the only country) that allows for advertisment of drugs

I believe the USA and New Zealand are the only countries in the world that allow drug advertising on TV (not sure about print or other media). Don't know the history of it in NZ, but here it's because of capitalism run amok to the very insane extreme, and the lobbying of Big Pharma/Health care is the largest $$$$ amount, has been for a while.

There are a ton of things that have recently changed, mostly notably sports betting being legalized in the U.S. in 2018.

Then huge companies set up sites and started advertising like crazy.

Almost none of that existed 5 years ago, let alone 10 or 20.

Legal sports betting versus illegal sports betting.

Illegal sports betting has been around for 20 years for anyone with a desire and an internet connection. But Pete is pointing out that *legal* sports betting is relatively new. And he's right.

I'd wager (pun) that less than 2% of people engaged in significant sports betting prior to the 2018 ruling. So, for all intents and purposes, easily accessible sports betting wasn't around.

As for whether it should be around; if we're going to allow 18-year-olds to walk into a 7-11 and buy scratchers and Powerball cards then who are we to limit sports fans. Bring it on.

Wait....sports betting has only been legal since 2018?

As for whether it should be around; if we're going to allow 18-year-olds to walk into a 7-11 and buy scratchers and Powerball cards then who are we to limit sports fans. Bring it on.

As anyone who has raised children can tell you, the brains of boys especially, have not fully developed in the area of self-control. The fastest rising age group of gambling addicts is 21 to 24 year olds with an alarming number between ages 18 and 21.

Legalized sports betting is just another thing that isn't necessary adds nothing to society. Just because something feels good doesn't mean do it.

As anyone who has raised children can tell you, the brains of boys especially, have not fully developed in the area of self-control. The fastest rising age group of gambling addicts is 21 to 24 year olds with an alarming number between ages 18 and 21.

Legalized sports betting is just another thing that isn't necessary adds nothing to society. Just because something feels good doesn't mean do it.

Yet we allow them to join the military and risk their lives for their country.

Wait....sports betting has only been legal since 2018?

I think they are referring to the online betting that was only legal in something like Nevada and Delaware until around 2018

I think they are referring to the online betting that was only legal in something like Nevada and Delaware until around 2018

but that reality was any one that wanted to sports bet online could do so off shore (on their phone) for the last 20 years it has was very very easy

but that reality was any one that wanted to sports bet online could do so off shore (on their phone) for the last 20 years it has was very very easy

Yes, but we are talking about the tons of induced demand brought on by massive advertising campaigns and then using AI to target people and their habits.

Yes, but we are talking about the tons of induced demand brought on by massive advertising campaigns and then using AI to target people and their habits.

Absolutely ..

and the "daily Fantasy" is really just gambling repackaged in a different form ..

and i would argue that cyrpto/stock "trading" with the aps like robinhood .. is also not much different ..

^The Draft Kings Pick 6 deal is just flat out player parlays. If that isn’t gambling I don’t know what is.

and i would argue that cyrpto/stock "trading" with the aps like robinhood .. is also not much different ..

You and I and most of the male population of this country don't actively follow crypto and have a semi-addiction built in from a lifetime of playing and watching it like we have done with sports.

And you don't play Crypto fantasy leagues and thus already have an account and are targeted by multi-billion dollar companies in their ad campaigns. You also don't watch Crypto channels with advertising embedded everywhere.


Buying and selling any commodity isn't in the same universe.

This SNL skit from a few weeks ago comes to mind lol.

https://youtu.be/wXZNuwY_5-U?si=g0bgGu9ZSZhy2XI0

There was a recent court ruling that Fantasy Football is not gambling and that's when all these sites got set up and how millions now funnel their league through them. It also moved from something only real diehard football fans did to seemingly everyone everywhere having a team or 10.

Now, they have all your data and habits and can target you and others specifically with AI that will draw out your money.

I've seen a huge shift among my friends from people who used to pull for a specific team to now only caring about 'their' team. And that's 100% the mindset of a gambler, not a sports fan. All these sites have caused this shift and most people don't even realize it.

Yet we allow them to join the military and risk their lives for their country.

I guess you didn't actually read my post because your knee was jerking in reaction. In an ideal world we wouldn't find it necessary to have a military and send our children off to often needless wars. How is it "necessary" to legalize yet another vice?

Absolutely ..

and the "daily Fantasy" is really just gambling repackaged in a different form ..

and i would argue that cyrpto/stock "trading" with the aps like robinhood .. is also not much different ..

When sports gambling has boiled down to whether LeBron scores 30 or Jokic gets a triple-double or Aaron Judge gets a home run or Mahomes throws an interception on the next drive in today's game, it's absurd.

I guess you didn't actually read my post because your knee was jerking in reaction. In an ideal world we wouldn't find it necessary to have a military and send our children off to often needless wars. How is it "necessary" to legalize yet another vice?

My son joined the Army National Guard at 18. I was opposed, but it was his legal right. He continues to serve and is nearing 20 years in. My phone has not been turned off since he joined. I am proud of his service. I will always believe any person who can be asked for the last full measure of devotion should be considered a full adult.

As anyone who has raised children can tell you, the brains of boys especially, have not fully developed in the area of self-control. The fastest rising age group of gambling addicts is 21 to 24 year olds with an alarming number between ages 18 and 21.

Legalized sports betting is just another thing that isn't necessary adds nothing to society. Just because something feels good doesn't mean do it.

This is starting to sound like a tired high-school debate topic.

Okay MugofBeer, you know have executive authority. What age is appropriate, if ever, to allow people to gamble on sports? If no gambling on sports futures, should we outlaw gambling on cards or table games? Raise the age to your chosen age? Allow girls to gamble earlier since they've got "more developed brains?"

Also, to those bringing up option trading and Robinhood, etc. I would chime in that anecdotally it's a helluva lot more dangerous. For sports gambling, especially in it's current iteration of "fantasy" there's an understanding that you're betting on a game. For options trading which is both accessible and advertised - there's a false belief that "investing" is somehow different than outright gambling. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone under 40 who has lost their ass or significant savings by gambling on sports. I do know several who have lost 10s of thousands (sometimes more) trying to time the market on quickplay options.

^

I know a bunch of people who have gotten themselves into very deep trouble through sports gambling.

One embezzled at work to pay the debts and spent time in prison, two others embezzled money at work and one got a suspended sentence and another barred for life from working in a financial institution.

And those are just the ones I know of. Gambling addiction is very easy to conceal because, unlike alcohol or drugs, there are no physical signs. And based on everything I've read, the biggest problems are those in college or just out, and most of use aren't running around with people in that age group.

I guess I am fine with sports betting but would prefer to not see Advertisements on it. Same goes for alcohol and prescription drugs.

There was a recent court ruling that Fantasy Football is not gambling and that's when all these sites got set up and how millions now funnel their league through them. It also moved from something only real diehard football fans did to seemingly everyone everywhere having a team or 10.

Now, they have all your data and habits and can target you and others specifically with AI that will draw out your money.

I've seen a huge shift among my friends from people who used to pull for a specific team to now only caring about 'their' team. And that's 100% the mindset of a gambler, not a sports fan. All these sites have caused this shift and most people don't even realize it.

The draft kings and fan duel style weekly fantasy football (where you pick a new team every week and play in huge leagues) has recently become more popular but people my age and almost literally every guy I know 5-10 years younger and older than me have been playing standard fantasy football with 2-5 teams since high school/college. It might be growing in popularity but it’s been fairly popular and available online for 20+ years with apps starting up as soon as the App Store became available on the iPhone 3G. Several of us, me included, care more about our fantasy football team than any one professional team primarily because OK doesn’t have one and we’re sick of watching the Cowboys suck or just cheering for whatever team Baker Mayfield plays for. We all just enjoy playing in leagues with our friends and talking crap to each other every Sunday more than we care about any one team anymore. Sure, you win a little money if you win the league or in some of them, get a payout if you have the highest score during a week…but it isn’t nearly enough money to be the driving force behind all the time we spend messing with it.

All of that to say, I think you’re making some major generalizations based on your experience and your friend group (or maybe we just have different definitions of “fantasy football”). I don’t necessarily love dedicated online betting platforms (in an ideal world, I’d rather it be restricted to sports books in casinos that the state profits from and aren’t as easily accessed) but standard fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

The draft kings and fan duel style weekly fantasy football (where you pick a new team every week and play in huge leagues) has recently become more popular but people my age and almost literally every guy I know 5-10 years younger and older than me have been playing standard fantasy football with 2-5 teams since high school/college. It might be growing in popularity but it’s been fairly popular and available online for 20+ years with apps starting up as soon as the App Store became available on the iPhone 3G. Several of us, me included, care more about our fantasy football team than any one professional team primarily because OK doesn’t have one and we’re sick of watching the Cowboys suck or just cheering for whatever team Baker Mayfield plays for. We all just enjoy playing in leagues with our friends and talking crap to each other every Sunday more than we care about any one team anymore. Sure, you win a little money if you win the league or in some of them, get a payout if you have the highest score during a week…but it isn’t nearly enough money to be the driving force behind all the time we spend messing with it.

All of that to say, I think you’re making some major generalizations based on your experience and your friend group (or maybe we just have different definitions of “fantasy football”). I don’t necessarily love dedicated online betting platforms (in an ideal world, I’d rather it be restricted to sports books in casinos that the state profits from and aren’t as easily accessed) but standard fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

just to put a point on this .. ESPN online fantasy football started in 1996 CBSsports FF in 1997 ..

fantasy football and sports betting are not really the same thing.

Yet, that's exactly how all these online sports betting sites started and now many people are just migrating to more of the betting they offer.

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


I will also say I know a ton of people in the 50s and 60s who cared deeply about one or more pro teams and now only care about their fantasy team. And it has nothing to do with not having a local team or the Cowboys sucking, because that has long been the case.

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


.

Maybe. I don't have enough info to make that conclusion. All I know is with my buddies I don't think playing FF has resulted in anyone dabbling in sports betting

I guess I am fine with sports betting but would prefer to not see Advertisements on it. Same goes for alcohol and prescription drugs.

Definitely agree on both.

Yet, that's exactly how all these online sports betting sites started and now many people are just migrating to more of the betting they offer.

As I said before, I believe very strongly that fantasy football in its current, crazy, multiple-teams, online form is absolutely a gateway into placing more bets on the same sites.


I will also say I know a ton of people in the 50s and 60s who cared deeply about one or more pro teams and now only care about their fantasy team. And it has nothing to do with not having a local team or the Cowboys sucking, because that has long been the case.

Which sites? I don’t know anyone using anything other than the ESPN, yahoo, NFL and CBS fantasy apps for their fantasy leagues. Those sites do not offer any other types of sports betting outside of user created pools for fantasy leagues, tournament brackets, etc. I can’t think of anyone using sites DraftKings or Fan Duel to set up a fantasy league. Maybe a bunch of people are doing that but it certainly doesn’t seem that widespread.

Maybe they just were waiting for something more entertaining than watching the cowboys suck and since we don’t have our own team…it was easier to stop caring about a team they have no regional attachment to? Know anyone who’s given up watching the Thunder and fully invested in fantasy basketball?

My friends that do play fantasy football and bet on sports were into betting on sports in Vegas long before draftkings or fan duel blew up. While their is probably a link, I highly doubt friends playing in fantasy leagues is going to lead to a massive sports betting epidemic but maybe I’m not spending time with the people who are drowning themselves in gambling debt.

In the meantime, I’ll continue getting together with friends for fantasy drafts and losing $100-$300 a year because I still suck at managing a team lol.

Which sites? I don’t know anyone using anything other than the ESPN, yahoo, NFL and CBS fantasy apps for their fantasy leagues. Those sites do not offer any other types of sports betting outside of user created pools for fantasy leagues, tournament brackets, etc. I can’t think of anyone using sites DraftKings or Fan Duel to set up a fantasy league. Maybe a bunch of people are doing that but it certainly doesn’t seem that widespread.

Maybe they just were waiting for something more entertaining than watching the cowboys suck and since we don’t have our own team…it was easier to stop caring about a team they have no regional attachment to? Know anyone who’s given up watching the Thunder and fully invested in fantasy basketball?

My friends that do play fantasy football and bet on sports were into betting on sports in Vegas long before draftkings or fan duel blew up. While their is probably a link, I highly doubt friends playing in fantasy leagues is going to lead to a massive sports betting epidemic but maybe I’m not spending time with the people who are drowning themselves in gambling debt.

In the meantime, I’ll continue getting together with friends for fantasy drafts and losing $100-$300 a year because I still suck at managing a team lol.

Well said. Fantasy Football diehards do not suddenly turn into gambling addicts thanks to the introduction of single-play "fantasy" apps.

Pete I would agree with you that DraftKings/FanDuel canlure people and elicit addictive actions from those who are pre-disposed to gamble. But I think it's important to stop short of suggesting traditional fantasy football begets gambling. As pointed out by you in this thread the gambling that takes place on DraftKings/FanDuel is essentially parlays and prop bets. That's not long-form fantasy and it's not taking place in the same venues, amongst friends.

It's almost like suggesting that people who get together to play in a monthly poker game with buddies are so strongly impacted by their home game poker experience that they would seek out an online poker website to bet large sums or be driven to Tribal casinos upon seeing a commercial advertising their poker rooms. We aren't blaming the local monthly $20 buy-in poker games amongst friends forthe addicts who can't drag themselves out of Riverwind.

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It seems that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers. Many think they have some sort of skill so why wouldn't that thinking translate into other forms of sports betting?

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It would seem that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers.

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

^

Traditional fantasy football IS gambling.

Never said that all people who play it automatically sign up for other forms of sports gambling, but clearly many do.


It seems that people who play a lot of fantasy football are invested in the idea they are not gamblers. Many think they have some sort of skill so why wouldn't that thinking translate into other forms of sports betting?

Getting in the car each day is a gamble too

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

lol I completely disagree. Have you played fantasy football?

not to get into semantics too much .. but traditional FF does NOT fit the definition of gambling (legally or otherwise)

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

lol ok

each player in a league puts money into a pot, to pay out to a winner.... ummm that's gambling.

this argument goes all the way back to the 1980's and Rotisserie Baseball. any paid league is gambling, free leagues are not. same way as you can play poker with friends for free and that is fine, but in some states it's still illegal to have a cash game amongst friends because it's still gambling.

is playing in a golf tournament with an entry fee gambling??

and FYI neither are gambling according to every state and the federal gov

That is the definition of using semantics because anyone with common sense knows FF is gambling.

And this is exactly why I think there has been this almost seamless transition into huge dollars being pumped into these sports betting sites.

is it gambling if you play in a league without a buy in? In at least one of those every year too utilizing the same services.

is playing in a golf tournament with an entry fee gambling??

and FYI neither are gambling according to every state and the federal gov

If the golf tournament is paying out the pot of the entry fees, then of course it is.


As I keep saying, those deep into fantasy sports have already convinced themselves it is not gambling against all common sense. So is daily fantasy gambling? The law says no. But in reality, it's no different than betting on the games directly -- the people that do that are convinced they are using 'skill'. People who play poker have some degree of skill. You could make that argument for every table game and basically everything in a casino.

If the golf tournament is paying out the pot of the entry fees, then of course it is.

.

it absolutely is not ..

it absolutely is not ..

And that way of thinking is exactly why there is an easy transition into other types of sports betting, which is clearly what is happening more and more.

And that way of thinking is exactly why there is an easy transition into other types of sports betting, which is clearly what is happening more and more.

a contest of skill and gambling are not the same thing at all ..