To attract Major League Baseball or Major League Soccer thru expansion or relocation, Oklahoma City would need:


Corporate Support
Ownership group
Major League Baseball (open/closed roof)/Major League Soccer Stadium
Season Ticket Support Base



Major League Baseball Stadium (Open/Closed Roof):
https://fox11online.com/resources/media2/16x9/full/1015/center/80/a0e7bc19-cb9b-4b90-9330-6ac5c86926ce-large16x9_amfam1.jpg
American Family Field, Milwaukee
Seating capacity 41,900, Opened 2001, Construction cost $400 million, Milwaukee MSA 1,574,731 also NBA Milwaukee Bucks


Major League Soccer (Outdoor) Stadium:
https://gephardtdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/RioTinto.jpg
Rio Tinto Stadium, Sandy, Utah
Seating capacity 20,213, Opened 2008, Construction cost $110 million, Salt Lake City MSA 1,257,936 also NBA Utah Jazz
Stadium is location in suburban, Sandy Utah, 17 miles from Salt Lake City



Baseball - $500 million
Soccer - $250 million

Seating Capacity:

Major League Baseball [40,00-42,000]
Soccer [20,000-22,000]
$37 million funded thru MAPS 4 Multipurpose Stadium funds
Expansion of Chickasaw Bricktown Ballpark 31,500
until an MLB stadium is funded & built.

Which would you support if given a choice: Major League Base (MLB) or Major League Soccer if an expansion or relocation franchise were awarded between 2025-2030.

Oklahoma Statistical Estimates for 2025 - 2030


Oklahoma State population: 4.2
OKC MSA Population: 1.6 million
OKC Proper Population: 800,000

.

Neither are going to happen.

The Milwaukee stadium was $400M, 20 years ago. I don’t think MAPS 5, 6 and 7 will pass just to cover a single stadium for baseball.

dude we can't even keep minor league soccer or hockey going

dude we can't even keep minor league soccer or hockey going

Granted minor leagues tend to struggle whatever and wherever they are, in the era of TV and VOD anyone who likes that sport can watch a ton of better players/games, for less than the price of tickets to a minor league event. As one of the larger markets not having major team for whichever sport, our minor league teams are probably doing better than most, it is kind of crazy how many minor league teams go bankrupt or the league implodes.

+1. For a multiplicity of reasons. Low population. Low per capita income. Low TV numbers. Low national perception of major league status to name a few

All of the negativity and comments as to why this will never happen are the exact same statements spewed about the NBA coming here!

The key sticking point in your statement is "2026." I don't see either of these happening by 2026. That doesn't mean 2031 isn't - maybe - possible or 2036 isn't much more possible.

But we're 4 years out and SERIOUS momentum would have to be building with plans being firmed up today for your timetable to work. Who is the ownership group who, by now, would already be stepping up and fundraising like mad? Where are the plans for the stadium that would be far enough along to be getting costs and contractors in place? Does that timeline even match the expansion plans for the leagues, who would have to not only consider OKC but actually vote to make it happen? Will the leagues be growing in 2026?

I don't want to be negative and I know similar arguments were made about the NBA. But baseball has 40 or 50 home games a year and requires 30,000-40,000 spectators a game. Is OKC capable of that? I'm not saying it isn't but I do think it's an open question. As for soccer, that remains somewhat of a niche sport in a town like OKC. I think OKC has a greater chance of one of these working in 20 years when the population will be that much greater.

Considering you could have seated everyone at the Thunder game last night in the lower bowl, there is a less than 0% chance of either happening.

All of the negativity and comments as to why this will never happen are the exact same statements spewed about the NBA coming here!

That is a valid take. If a group of billionaires just decided not to wait to bid on an expansion team and to go buy a team a bring them here it could happen. There are only so many of those opportunities, but it's not impossible. However, until we get picked by some league, ANY league, for expansion on the merits of our city over other cities, I just don't see it happening "organically" in the near future (next couple decades). I suspect we'll have to wait for that next group of billionaires with the right opportunity in their sights if it's going to happen sooner rather than later.

Neither are going to happen.
Maybe not by 2026 but I bet one or the other happens by 2030.

Considering you could have seated everyone at the Thunder game last night in the lower bowl, there is a less than 0% chance of either happening.
This is happening consistently across small and midsized markets throughout the league. Even some of the largest markets in the league are pulling about the same attendance as OKC is presently. Low attendance isn’t the exception; it’s the rule. This is pandemic-related much more than it is the market indicator that you are suggesting.

Okay, I'll do it. I'll try and buy a team and move them here.

I'll post the link to my GoFundMe. I'm only a few billion short.

As much as I love baseball and would really love not having to drive to KC or Dallas to catch an MLB game, OKC just doesn't make a lot of sense. We've got a great AAA stadium affiliated with one of the best teams in all of baseball. The games are cheap, you can get good seats on most nights, and the quality of play is pretty good.

Any MLB stadium in OKC would have to have a retractable roof due to heat (see why the Rangers got a new stadium despite their previous one being not that old) and thus easily cost close to a $billion, if not more. Also, Montreal, Portland, Nashville, Indianapolis are all ahead of us from MLB's interest side.

MLS seems more within reach (and given soccer's overall growth in the US, a better long-term bet). Plus a soccer facility can double as a high school football stadium or other events a lot better than a baseball stadium.

The cheapest option would be to get a hockey team to alternate at Paycom Arena, but I think the NHL is tapped out on expansion for a bit after the Seattle Kraken.

I would think the Thunder ownership group is working awfully hard to keep OKC a one team city. Very easy for the support and Money to get spread too thin.

Just look at Seattle. It is way bigger than OKC, but it is tough to ask the taxpayers to finance multiple stadiums via endless corporate welfare.

The chance to get an MLB team was with the A's- it's looking like Oakland will either build them a stadium or they're off to Las Vegas. The MLB isn't going to expand and every other team outside the Angels & Rays is happy with their current setup.

MLS who knows. Pro Soccer in this country is finally sorta taking off. One thing to is the USL is a better model for owners than the MLS. It's still evolving and it's unknown how it will ultimately shake out. It's still not a guarantee the MLS is the top league 10 years from now.

Portland T-Blazers 81 @ Thunder 98

Box score https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360584

Attendance: 13,812

Last nights game attendance - Not bad considering Portland is not a big draw, with Dame out.

A full house is a little over 18 thousand.

This is happening consistently across small and midsized markets throughout the league. Even some of the largest markets in the league are pulling about the same attendance as OKC is presently. Low attendance isn’t the exception; it’s the rule. This is pandemic-related much more than it is the market indicator that you are suggesting.

Nah, if this was the 2012-2018 Thunder, that place would be full. It's people being tired of paying for an average product (team) that lacks a true superstar. MLB and their 81 game home schedule is not the answer. Soccer will never work at the MLS level, its too niche of a sport right now for OKC. I'd love to have several major professional sports here, but it wont happen in my lifetime and I'm sub 40.

Portland T-Blazers 81 @ Thunder 98

Box score https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/gameId/401360584

Attendance: 13,812

Last nights game attendance - Not bad considering Portland is not a big draw, with Dame out.

I was there. 13,812 LOF'nL Nowhere near that many there.

I was there. 13,812 LOF'nL Nowhere near that many there.

Attendance comes down to paid seats, not butts in seats. I was a club level season ticket holder for 10 years, but when covid happened we decided to take some time off.

I was there. 13,812 LOF'nL Nowhere near that many there.

They count paid tickets , not people present in the arena. Big difference.

The company I work for, as four season tickets and we barley use them this season.

Nah, if this was the 2012-2018 Thunder, that place would be full. It's people being tired of paying for an average product (team) that lacks a true superstar. MLB and their 81 game home schedule is not the answer. Soccer will never work at the MLS level, its too niche of a sport right now for OKC. I'd love to have several major professional sports here, but it wont happen in my lifetime and I'm sub 40.

I agree with all this. I have access to Thunder tickets almost every game if I really wanted too. I haven't been since Westbrook left. Some of that was definitely Covid. Most of it was not.

I agree with all this. I have access to Thunder tickets almost every game if I really wanted too. I haven't been since Westbrook left. Some of that was definitely Covid. Most of it was not.Same boat. COVID had an effect but more so that I've soooooo many teams go into rebuild mode and never recover or at least not for many, many years. I just don't think it's the way to put a winning team together.

I think MLS is at about 40 cities, including current teams, expansion awarded and organizations that are ready and paid have initial fee. It is probably the hottest league for people that want to be in sports ownership, are rich, but not billionaires. Most have bought into the "soccer is the next big thing in US team sports" mindset. Same thing that has been going on since Pele came to the New York Cosmos around 1975. I think OKC is in the 40-50 group.

OKC has 2 big league sports currently: OU football and Thunder NBA. Be a tough nut to get into a third.

Couldn't sell my tickets last night and couldn't even find someone to take them. According to ESPN we are 4th from last in attendance but also shows an average of 14,494 which is no way happening. http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance I would put the number closer to probably say about 9,000 or less.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/portland-trail-blazers-oklahoma-city-thunder-2022013125/

Couldn't sell my tickets last night and couldn't even find someone to take them. According to ESPN we are 4th from last in attendance but also shows an average of 14,494 which is no way happening. http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance I would put the number closer to probably say about 9,000 or less.

Bingo

I appreciate the pandemic, the rebuilding year, and all of that. But if OKC is seen as a market that struggles to support one professional team, there is no chance of getting a second one.

I appreciate the pandemic, the rebuilding year, and all of that. But if OKC is seen as a market that struggles to support one professional team, there is no chance of getting a second one.Even when my beloved OU Sooners football team sucked we went to every home game. But the stands were half full pretty often.

Amazing, really, that Milwaukee (MLB, NBA), New Orleans (NBA, NFL (!)), and SLC (MLS, MLB) have two professional teams given their size. Milwaukee is 40th in metro size in the nation, and we are 41st. New Orleans and SLC are below us. Must be things like Fortune 500 companies and income per capita that makes it possible in those smaller or similar sized markets.

TV markets presumably

The Denver Broncos are for sale and are expected to set a record for largest price tag in North American sports history. Maybe we can set up an OKCTalk fantasy gofundme and purchase them, then they can become the Oklahoma City Broncos.

There’s a litany of reasons why OKC probably won’t get a 2nd professional sports franchise but it won’t be because the Thunder have poor attendance in a tanking season. OKC is like virtually every other market in that people don’t go to games when the team sucks. It’d be weird and unprecedented if the arena was packed every night.

A lot of teams routinely lie about attendance in almost every professional league so I wouldn’t read too much into things.

Couldn't sell my tickets last night and couldn't even find someone to take them. According to ESPN we are 4th from last in attendance but also shows an average of 14,494 which is no way happening. http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance I would put the number closer to probably say about 9,000 or less.

Here again, it's paid attendance not those that just happen to show up.

These OKC-can't-even-support the Thunder takes are ignoring a lot of context. First, the Thunder are bad. Most bad teams in the NBA have low attendance. I've been to a number of near empty NBA arenas. It's not uncommon. Second, we're still in a pandemic that has caused both COVID cautious (uncomfortable/unsafe) and COVID reckless (no vaccine/wouldn't test) fans to stay away from games this season. I've personally missed at least 5 home games because of COVID. All these factors are very good reasons for poor attendance. I expect crowds to improve as COVID fades as an issue and the team improves. How quickly do we forget that OKC had not only top 10-15 attendance for its first decade, but also the crowd was known for its enthusiasm.

On top of that, OKC is a well run organization so it's easier to stick with the team even when rebuilding. This isn't the Kings. And the ownership is committed to OKC and that means there's really no reason to think the team isn't in OKC for the long haul.

As to other pro sports teams, I could see a soccer team as viable if OKC had a really ambitious ownership group with the means to do it. It seems unlikely any time soon. I don't see the other major sports, including baseball, as particularly viable in the market.

These OKC-can't-even-support the Thunder takes are ignoring a lot of context. First, the Thunder are bad. Most bad teams in the NBA have low attendance. I've been to a number of near empty NBA arenas. It's not uncommon. Second, we're still in a pandemic that has caused both COVID cautious (uncomfortable/unsafe) and COVID reckless (no vaccine/wouldn't test) fans to stay away from games this season. I've personally missed at least 5 home games because of COVID. All these factors are very good reasons for poor attendance. I expect crowds to improve as COVID fades as an issue and the team improves. How quickly do we forget that OKC had not only top 10-15 attendance for its first decade, but also the crowd was known for its enthusiasm.

On top of that, OKC is a well run organization so it's easier to stick with the team even when rebuilding. This isn't the Kings. And the ownership is committed to OKC and that means there's really no reason to think the team isn't in OKC for the long haul.

As to other pro sports teams, I could see a soccer team as viable if OKC had a really ambitious ownership group with the means to do it. It seems unlikely any time soon. I don't see the other major sports, including baseball, as particularly viable in the market.

Agreed. These hot takes about the city not being able to support the Thunder ignore every bit of relevant context. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 10 years and I typically attend every home game I can. This year, I’ve attended only 1 game because of COVID. Once the case rates go back down, I’ll be back. For now, I’m watching every game on TV. We’re also in the middle of a bad season. Prior to COVID, I attended NBA games in several other cities and more often than not the arena was either half empty or filled halfway with opposing teams fans.

^^^^^^^^
Yep. I’m in a similar situation. Been eating my tickets all year due to stupid-high COVID numbers and a lack of desire to be in the same room with thousands of screaming people. I’ve been doing the same with concert tickets I bought aggressively in early 2021. Made it to one Thunder game so far this season (a win vs Lakers), but I’m not going anywhere as a 14-year season ticket holder (and two year Hornets season ticket holder before that).

^^^^^^^^
Yep. I’m in a similar situation. Been eating my tickets all year due to stupid-high COVID numbers and a lack of desire to be in the same room with thousands of screaming people. I’ve been doing the same with concert tickets I bought aggressively in early 2021. Made it to one Thunder game so far this season (a win vs Lakers), but I’m not going anywhere as a 14-year season ticket holder (and two year Hornets season ticket holder before that).

^^^ I'm with you, Urbanized.

This is what is hurting attendance throughout the NBA especially among small markets. OKC is doing exceptionally well during this down year in rebuilding the roster.

Myself, I'm taking every precaution not to get infected with Covid. Taken all the recommended necessary shots but until there's a break in the mutation of Covid and its variances--staying away from large indoor gatherings.

Noticed the consistency when they discover a new mutation has reached the U.S., you can bet it's already here in Oklahoma.

My brother and I have tried our very best to convince relatives and friends of the benefits of getting vaccinated, purchased almost a hundred of N95s. Got one relative (Anti-vaxxer) in Tennessee in the ICU in Nashville, her chances of recovery doesn't look good. The upside of this, those who have been close to her are getting tested, scheduling and getting the vaccine.

IMO, the best case scenario for pro sports in OKC currently would be for the Energy to magically develop into a flagship USL franchise. Phoenix, Louisville, Tampa Bay, Colorado Springs, and ABQ are all USL markets that have done a very good job of becoming relevant in their respective cities. Detroit will most likely join that list this year. I don't have any confidence that the current Energy ownership group is up for the task - in fact, I'd put it at no better than 50/50 odds that the Energy even come back from their hiatus in 2023. But that doesn't mean that another ownership group won't get it done someday. The Energy sold out Taft for a Conference Final back in 2015 when the USL wasn't nearly as well-known as it is now, and when the Thunder were still contending for NBA titles. It's entirely possible to make that sort of momentum happen again (especially if/when the MAPS 4 stadium gets built) but I have no confidence that the current ownership group is up for the task.

TV Market [1,308,320], as with the Oklahoma City Thunder, Oklahoma City (755,340) - Tulsa - (552,980) is considered one NBA TV market (Selling point made by former OKC Mayor Mick Cornett).

Source: https://oaaa.org/Portals/0/Public%20PDFs/OAAA%202021%20NIELSEN%20DMA%20Rankings%20Report.pd f

Our current USL ownership group, Prodigal LLC of which a few posters don't think are coming back from USL Energy FC's Hiatus, name something in metro OKC sports where they have been successful.

Population:


Oklahoma experienced 0.6 percent population growth over the year. . . An estimated 24,608 people from July 2020 to July 2021. Of that total, 24,687 people were added through domestic migration from other states while 1,523 were added from international migration. December 22, 2021.

How much of that raw increase migrated to the Oklahoma City area . . .

Construction & jobs:

Okana Resort opens the jobs market:


“Undoubtedly, an entertainment and lodging complex of this magnitude will add significantly to the exciting progress going on in Oklahoma City. Initially, the resort is projected to employ 400 people and the annualized economic impact year one is projected to be $97 million. Additionally, estimates for the 10-year economic impact of this development are projected to exceed $1 billion, with full-time employment expanding to approximately 700-800.”--October 21, 2021, Press Release.

MAPS 4 projects:


MAPS 4 projects (2022-2029) Now, the first project has been bumped up to start in the third quarter of 2024, which according to the project's consulting firm, ADG, will move the entire youth center schedule up by 21 months with the final center being completed in November 2029. . .

MAPS 4, passed by voters in 2019, contains 16 projects that address things like homelessness, post-incarceration programming, youth and senior well-being, along with traditional MAPS projects like the fairgrounds coliseum, updates to the NBA Thunder's arena and a multipurpose stadium.

The coliseum and arena updates will be the first to begin construction, while 12 other projects will receive money by the end of 2022 for things like design, site acquisition and planning.--Oklahoman, Hogan Gore, September 8, 2021.

Looks like Oklahoma City will be experience a decade's high boom.