Horrible situation:

“ A cinematographer working on the film "Rust" is dead and the director is hospitalized after an accident during filming involving star Alec Baldwin and a misfiring prop gun, authorities said Thursday.

The Western, starring Baldwin and Jensen Ackles of "Supernatural," began filming this month at Bonanza Creek Movie Ranch, a film location in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Deputies with the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office responded to the film set around 2 p.m. local time after a 911 caller "reported a shooting on the set," the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement. Two people were shot after a prop firearm was discharged during filming, authorities said. Baldwin fired the prop gun, striking the film's director, Joel Souza, and director of photography, Halyna Hutchins, the sheriff’s office said in a follow-up statement Thursday night.”

https://apple.news/AFQ0Y1dffSRSv1rHt3HJyrA

Horrible situation:

“ A cinematographer working on the film "Rust" is dead and the director is hospitalized after an accident during filming involving star Alec Baldwin and a misfiring prop gun, authorities said Thursday.

The Western, starring Baldwin and Jensen Ackles of "Supernatural," began filming this month at Bonanza Creek Movie Ranch, a film location in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Deputies with the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office responded to the film set around 2 p.m. local time after a 911 caller "reported a shooting on the set," the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement. Two people were shot after a prop firearm was discharged during filming, authorities said. Baldwin fired the prop gun, striking the film's director, Joel Souza, and director of photography, Halyna Hutchins, the sheriff’s office said in a follow-up statement Thursday night.”

https://apple.news/AFQ0Y1dffSRSv1rHt3HJyrA

I'm still trying to understand how 2 crew members get shot during filming. Actors, that's happened before, but crew members, that would seem to indicate a series of really horrible, stupid mistakes. This is an awful, awful situation.

I'm still trying to understand how 2 crew members get shot during filming. Actors, that's happened before, but crew members, that would seem to indicate a series of really horrible, stupid mistakes. This is an awful, awful situation.

Based on the members shot I am guessing he was pointing the gun at the camera for a shot looking at the audience. I am sure they will look into why the prop gun fired like this.

Reminds me of the accident on the set of The Crow that killed Brandon Lee.

everything is still speculation at this point...

i've heard that a real bullet was accidentally loaded instead of a prop bullet. baldwin was pointing the firearm toward the camera and pulls the trigger. the cinematographer is directly behind the camera and the director is just behind and slightly to the side, as is typical. the bullet strikes the cinematographer in the gut, passes through and strikes the director in the shoulder.

again, that's speculation based on what i've seen reported so far. regardless of who is ultimately responsible, that's a heck of a thing to live with.

I can't imagine how bad Alec feels. I feel bad when I realize I accidentally cut someone off in traffic or anything else incredibly minor. I can't possibly fathom the weight of accidentally killing someone.

everything is still speculation at this point...

i've heard that a real bullet was accidentally loaded instead of a prop bullet. baldwin was pointing the firearm toward the camera and pulls the trigger. the cinematographer is directly behind the camera and the director is just behind and slightly to the side, as is typical. the bullet strikes the cinematographer in the gut, passes through and strikes the director in the shoulder.

again, that's speculation based on what i've seen reported so far. regardless of who is ultimately responsible, that's a heck of a thing to live with.

Yes, but I'm amazed they would allow any kind of firearm to be pointed in the direction of living creatures, regardless of whether they needed it for a shot. And I also would have expected better from Alec. He's been in the industry long enough to know to check weapons, etc.

Yes, but I'm amazed they would allow any kind of firearm to be pointed in the direction of living creatures, regardless of whether they needed it for a shot. And I also would have expected better from Alec. He's been in the industry long enough to know to check weapons, etc.

Yeah, this seems like a plane crash - many things had to go wrong at many points for this to happen, and despite all the safeguards, checklists, etc., it still happened.

Reminds me of the accident on the set of The Crow that killed Brandon Lee.

And, in fact I've already seen at least one article with comments from Lee's family about this incident.

Obviously Baldwin will be facing some legal issues with this (family suing for damages); but what kind of criminal charges could he face, if any? It's a unique situation. This isn't a typical workplace scenario of a chain-snapping and dropping a piece of machinery onto somebody where nobody could reasonably be at fault. Negligent homicide for failure to inspect the weapon?

Horrible situation. There’s a good Unsolved Mysteries segment about the Lee family “curse” which dives into the series of events that led to Brandon’s accidental shooting death. I immediately thought of this when I heard about this story.

Obviously Baldwin will be facing some legal issues with this (family suing for damages); but what kind of criminal charges could he face, if any? It's a unique situation. This isn't a typical workplace scenario of a chain-snapping and dropping a piece of machinery onto somebody where nobody could reasonably be at fault. Negligent homicide for failure to inspect the weapon?

None. And no, he won't face anything civilly, either. Not his job or expectation to check a known prop gun for actual damage-inducing items inside. He reasonably expected it to be a prop gun, which will get him off of any charges. Same with from civil suits, in my opinion. They might try, but will likely lose in court.

While Alec might not face charges or civil exposure, someone will.
There are reports that the union camera operators walked off the job hours before over unsafe practices. The production company replaced them instead of addressing the safety issues.
This assistant could also face legal liability as well.


Warrant: Baldwin Didn't Know Weapon Contained Live Round
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/prop-firearm-movie-set-alec-baldwin-hutchins_n_6173523ce4b010d933110704

None. And no, he won't face anything civilly, either. Not his job or expectation to check a known prop gun for actual damage-inducing items inside. He reasonably expected it to be a prop gun, which will get him off of any charges. Same with from civil suits, in my opinion. They might try, but will likely lose in court.

I've read a lot of really bad things about this production, including prior complaints due to three negligent discharges of firearms, prior to this death, along with reports the crew was replaced with locals on the day this happened.

I've also seen speculation that Baldwin could face civil legal liability as a producer of the movie, which he reportedly is. I know squat about legal stuff, but doesn't seem far fetched.

One of the entertainment news shows my wife records did a piece yesterday on everything Baldwin has been in hot water for ever. All his tantrums, etc. As if that had ANYTHING to do with this situation.

I've read a lot of really bad things about this production, including prior complaints due to three negligent discharges of firearms, prior to this death, along with reports the crew was replaced with locals on the day this happened.

I've also seen speculation that Baldwin could face civil legal liability as a producer of the movie, which he reportedly is. I know squat about legal stuff, but doesn't seem far fetched.

Surely the production company has insurance to cover things like this though. Unless it can be proved that this was an intentional act, in which case, the company is completely off the hook as employers are not responsible for the intentional torts of their employees which fall outside the scope of employment.

It comes down to whoever it was whose job it was to load the blanks into the gun. Could they not tell the difference between live rounds and blanks? If not, then why not--and then the blame might shift back to the employer for failing to properly train employees.

At some point though, someone bought live rounds and brought them to the set. It's hard to imagine how this could purely be an accident.

It's all on this narcissist hothead. His movie, his production, and ALL his responsibility. Crew were complaining and walking off the set for safety concerns, as was the young lady he killed. He didn't care. This is how the rich, elitist Hollywood types roll. And no doubt, the leftist media will cover for him.

Seems the issue is more with the Assistant Director.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/entertainment/rust-shooting-assistant-director-halls-complaints/index.html

As far as not caring:

https://nypost.com/2021/10/23/beaten-alec-baldwin-seen-at-new-mexico-hotel-after-shooting/

The more that comes out about this tragedy, the worse it gets. The most simple of gun safety checks would have prevented this. Had the number one rule of firearms been followed, this would have been prevented. Sounds like there was little to no gun safety on the set, and possibly even multiple problems leading up to this event.

This is not going to end well for the producers, I would think, including Alec Baldwin, and they should pay dearly.

Photographers should be wearing bullet proof vests. Would have saved a life here.

Photographers should be wearing bullet proof vests. Would have saved a life here.

Probably should. Or set the camera and step away for some shots. I remember a few scenes from the 70s and 80s cop movies, such as maybe Dirty Harry, where the gun is pointed directly at the camera as if the camera were the bad guy. But this was still a MAJOR f-up on many peoples part. At work I see blank rounds, frangible projectile rounds and full live rounds all the time. It is NO problem to tell them apart.

This is not going to end well for the producers, I would think, including Alec Baldwin, and they should pay dearly.

This is likely a worker's compensation claim unless it can be attributed to some third party not employing the deceased, so it's almost 100% an insurance loss, and it's probably not nearly as much of a payout as you'd think. California (I didn't look back to see where this happened) maxes out at $320K, and all the company is going to be out is whatever their deductible is and then likely higher rates in the future.

So if you hear about Baldwin cutting a check, it's something he probably didn't have to do.

This is likely a worker's compensation claim unless it can be attributed to some third party not employing the deceased, so it's almost 100% an insurance loss, and it's probably not nearly as much of a payout as you'd think. California (I didn't look back to see where this happened) maxes out at $320K, and all the company is going to be out is whatever their deductible is and then likely higher rates in the future.

So if you hear about Baldwin cutting a check, it's something he probably didn't have to do.

It was New Mexico

I saw another news piece on this. This one says there was an armorer and I believe an assistant director involved. According to this story the armorer, who is only on her second movie, gave the gun to the assistant director. The assistant director laid it on a table and called out "cold gun" which the reporter said means there's no ammo in it at all. Not even blanks. So multiple people really screwed up.

I saw another news piece on this. This one says there was an armorer and I believe an assistant director involved. According to this story the armorer, who is only on her second movie, gave the gun to the assistant director. The assistant director laid it on a table and called out "cold gun" which the reporter said means there's no ammo in it at all. Not even blanks. So multiple people really screwed up.

+1. Even if worker's comp ends up
Being the exclusive remedy for The Estate
Baldwin could end up catching some charges
Unless we want to pretend that he wasn't a Producer

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why on earth are there real bullets on the set at all?

+1. Even if worker's comp ends up
Being the exclusive remedy for The Estate
Baldwin could end up catching some charges
Unless we want to pretend that he wasn't a Producer

Charges for what? When is an employer ever held criminally responsible for an employee’s negligence? To establish criminality, there is a requisite mens rea or mental state. He’d have to have known there was live ammo.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why on earth are there real bullets on the set at all?

Possibly this reason, if this ends up being true.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-tuesday/index.html


"There's this pastime that crew members sometimes do, it's called 'plinking,' and they go out into the rural areas and they shoot at beer cans. This is with live ammunition. We learned that this happened the morning of the day that Halyna Hutchins was killed," Waxman said.

Waxman told CNN that "plinking" is common when there's downtime during a shoot.

Charges for what? When is an employer ever held criminally responsible for an employee’s negligence? To establish criminality, there is a requisite mens rea or mental state. He’d have to have known there was live ammo.

Nah. No men rea showing required for involuntary manslaughter: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2011/chapter30/article2/section30-2-3/

Plus, he knew there was live ammo on the set: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-tuesday/index.html

Nah. No men rea showing required for involuntary manslaughter: https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2011/chapter30/article2/section30-2-3/

Plus, he knew there was live ammo on the set: https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/26/entertainment/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-tuesday/index.html

He may be charged, but the fact that there are two other people whose job is to ensure the thing is safe, I don't think there's enough for a conviction by a jury. I think the other two folks likely have a similar defense. Out of the three folks who handled the gun, I think the talent is probably the least culpable.

He may be charged, but the fact that there are two other people whose job is to ensure the thing is safe, I don't think there's enough for a conviction by a jury. I think the other two folks likely have a similar defense. Out of the three folks who handled the gun, I think the talent is probably the least culpable.

As I mentioned, he's not just the talent; he was also a Producer.

Would totally agree if his role was limited to acting.

As I mentioned, he's not just the talent; he was also a Producer.

Would totally agree if his role was limited to acting.

Having not produced a film myself, perhaps you can tell me whether producers are responsible for personally handling and verifying the safety of props? As a producer, he's also not likely civilly liable, because this appears to me to be a worker's comp claim.

Having not produced a film myself, perhaps you can tell me whether producers are responsible for personally handling and verifying the safety of props? As a producer, he's also not likely civilly liable, because this appears to me to be a worker's comp claim.

Right, so Producers are responsible for all sorts of things
That would affect the total ESG rating of a movie set
For example, locking out your union labor force
Is probably going to decrease the “S” and “G” components

Very weird, as I’ve always considered Baldwin to be a pro-union boy

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-crew-nonunion-1235097930/amp/

Maybe this is a dumb question, but why on earth are there real bullets on the set at all?

Not a dumb question at all. There should not have been.

Really ridiculous that this could've been prevented by literally *one* person opening the gun and looking at it to make sure it really was "cold". Three people, at the very least, should've done this - the armorer, the AD, and Baldwin himself.

Really ridiculous that this could've been prevented by literally *one* person opening the gun and looking at it to make sure it really was "cold". Three people, at the very least, should've done this - the armorer, the AD, and Baldwin himself.

Even more ridiculous when you consider they were likely using old revolvers, which are very easy to flip open and check. Not like they would have had to go through a clip or anything.

Also, the gun should never have been pointed at anyone or anything that had any value/life, regardless of anything else. That's on Alec.

Even more ridiculous when you consider they were likely using old revolvers, which are very easy to flip open and check. Not like they would have had to go through a clip or anything.

Also, the gun should never have been pointed at anyone or anything that had any value/life, regardless of anything else. That's on Alec.

Yep, totally agree. If I was an actor that had to use a gun, no matter how many people say "cold" or "safe" or "I checked it", I would check it myself personally. And also totally agree with your last sentence - I've always said that a gun should never, ever, ever, be pointed at anything other than the ground, unless it's pointed at something you're willing to shoot/kill and deal with the consequences. Bunch of idiots working on that film...

Right, so Producers are responsible for all sorts of things
That would affect the total ESG rating of a movie set
For example, locking out your union labor force
Is probably going to decrease the “S” and “G” components

Very weird, as I’ve always considered Baldwin to be a pro-union boy

https://variety.com/2021/film/news/alec-baldwin-shooting-rust-crew-nonunion-1235097930/amp/

So what does the President of the U.S. have to do with unions and private agreements? Inquiring minds want to know.

You've said some dumb things. This is one of those dumb things.

So what does the President of the U.S. have to do with unions and private agreements? Inquiring minds want to know.

You've said some dumb things. This is one of those dumb things.

Show me where I've talked about the President in this thread, Guy.

I'll wait.

Show me where I've talked about the President in this thread, Guy.

I'll wait.

Maybe confused Baldwin with Biden?

Show me where I've talked about the President in this thread, Guy.

I'll wait.

Yeah, never mind. I had been on the road for about 5 hours yesterday. Probably shouldn't have been publishing content.