Back in the day, CU tended to be a tough place to play. Teams were supposed to win frequently took Ls at Fulsom Field.

Back in the day, CU tended to be a tough place to play. Teams were supposed to win frequently took Ls at Fulsom Field.

IIRC the last time OU played in Boulder, they lost.

Football programs fall down. It is hard to get up. Happened to OU about 25 years ago. OU got a good coach and that helped them recover. Coach wasn't a sure thing when he was hired at OU. Colorado has fallen and Coach Prime is putting together his first team. Gotta give him a year or three.

Arizona has underachieved in football for many years, but is a good school and strong in basketball. Would be a good get and fit in the Big 12.

I think Utah was about the last team added to the Pac 12 and doesn't want to be seen as last in-first out. I also they don't want to be seen as following BYU.

Football programs fall down. It is hard to get up. Happened to OU about 25 years ago. OU got a good coach and that helped them recover. Coach wasn't a sure thing when he was hired at OU. Colorado has fallen and Coach Prime is putting together his first team. Gotta give him a year or three.

Arizona has underachieved in football for many years, but is a good school and strong in basketball. Would be a good get and fit in the Big 12.

I think Utah was about the last team added to the Pac 12 and doesn't want to be seen as last in-first out. I also they don't want to be seen as following BYU.

OU was "down" for 3 or 4 years .. Cu has been "down" for all but 1 or 2 in the last 20

Football programs fall down. It is hard to get up. Happened to OU about 25 years ago. OU got a good coach and that helped them recover. Coach wasn't a sure thing when he was hired at OU. Colorado has fallen and Coach Prime is putting together his first team. Gotta give him a year or three.

Arizona has underachieved in football for many years, but is a good school and strong in basketball. Would be a good get and fit in the Big 12.

I think Utah was about the last team added to the Pac 12 and doesn't want to be seen as last in-first out. I also they don't want to be seen as following BYU.

Colorado was good for 2-3 years. OU was bad for 2-3 years. Colorado has no cache' with true football fans and recruits. Colorado has a bad long term history and a bad last two decades history. No comparison of the two programs.

Utah is recently solid, but knows if it leaves their nest of west coast recruiting they will have trouble. They have no natural recruiting base in the B12 area. Would be tough.

Colorado was good for 2-3 years. OU was bad for 2-3 years. Colorado has no cache' with true football fans and recruits. Colorado has a bad long term history and a bad last two decades history. No comparison of the two programs.

Utah is recently solid, but knows if it leaves their nest of west coast recruiting they will have trouble. They have no natural recruiting base in the B12 area. Would be tough.

They play successful football in the Northwest United States. Utah, Boise State, BYU, Oregon and Washington are a few programs that have done just fine. They recruit and win at a national level.

Colorado has a fine campus and university in a well regarded state. If they can recruit and win football games at the schools listed above, plus Lubbock Texas and Manhattan Kansas, then surely it is possible to win in Boulder Colorado.

Colorado was good for 2-3 years. OU was bad for 2-3 years. Colorado has no cache' with true football fans and recruits. Colorado has a bad long term history and a bad last two decades history. No comparison of the two programs.

Utah is recently solid, but knows if it leaves their nest of west coast recruiting they will have trouble. They have no natural recruiting base in the B12 area. Would be tough.

What is a "True Football fan?"

What is a "True Football fan?"
Referring to more than casual fans… ones who actually know quite a bit about the sport, the teams, the histories….

They play successful football in the Northwest United States. Utah, Boise State, BYU, Oregon and Washington are a few programs that have done just fine. They recruit and win at a national level.

Colorado has a fine campus and university in a well regarded state. If they can recruit and win football games at the schools listed above, plus Lubbock Texas and Manhattan Kansas, then surely it is possible to win in Boulder Colorado.
None of the teams you cite are actually consistently upper tier teams, with MAYBE the exception of Oregon. And Oregon has done it because of massive donations from Nike. Colorado has no such benefactor.

Referring to more than casual fans… ones who actually know quite a bit about the sport, the teams, the histories….

What teams can fans consider to have cachet and still be considered true football fans?

What teams can fans consider to have cachet and still be considered true football fans?
Not sure what you are trying to get at. But, Colorado and Arizona, nor Houston or Cincinnati, BYU, or UCF have much cache or extra appeal to most top flight recruits. They don’t have the history, reputation, fan base, exposure, etc of an Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Oklahoma, USC, FSU, Clemson, or even Nebraska.

None of the teams you cite are actually consistently upper tier teams, with MAYBE the exception of Oregon. And Oregon has done it because of massive donations from Nike. Colorado has no such benefactor.

l guaranty you, UC has an enormous donor pool. It's the school admin. that wanted to be a Harvard of the West and deemphasize sports but a new group wants to push sports again - see Dion Sanders.

l guaranty you, UC has an enormous donor pool. It's the school admin. that wanted to be a Harvard of the West and deemphasize sports but a new group wants to push sports again - see Dion Sanders.

it is CU not "UC"

tons of smoke that ASU and Arizona make a move to the Big 12 in the next couple of days

l guaranty you, UC has an enormous donor pool. It's the school admin. that wanted to be a Harvard of the West and deemphasize sports but a new group wants to push sports again - see Dion Sanders.

Every major school has wealthy donors, but few have ones like Phil Knight and Nike. It’s not their wealth, it’s what they do with it and how they do it.

What an indictment… a university that wants to excel in educating students. Lol

And they didn’t de emphasize sports, they just haven’t been very good at it.

You can put lipstick on it, but Colorado doesn’t bring lots to the B12. It is a great skiing school though.

Every major school has wealthy donors, but few have ones like Phil Knight and Nike. It’s not their wealth, it’s what they do with it and how they do it.

What an indictment… a university that wants to excel in educating students. Lol

And they didn’t de emphasize sports, they just haven’t been very good at it.

You can put lipstick on it, but Colorado doesn’t bring lots to the B12. It is a great skiing school though.

You are arguing with yourself. No one is claiming Colorado is Alabama or Ohio State.

Saw this last night and had a chuckle...
https://twitter.com/CUBarstool/status/1686878440551858176?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
18196

Arizona to the Big XII. ASU and Utah likely to follow sometime in the next few days.

Arizona to the Big XII. ASU and Utah likely to follow sometime in the next few days.

At 16, would they be done adding for awhile?

At 16, would they be done adding for awhile?
Pretty certain. The TV deal the Big 12 has with ESPN has provision for paying up to 16 teams a full $31.7 millon share. More than 16 teams someone would have to figure out how to pay them.

Arizona to the Big XII. ASU and Utah likely to follow sometime in the next few days.

with arizona in final talks, i think that's the most likely scenario.

my understanding is that the utah board and its fans are lukewarm toward the idea of big 12 membership. i think utah's first choice would be the big ten, but i think they'd be more interested in oregon and washington. so... asu follows arizona and utah needs a power 5 to land in before the pac 12's impending collapse.

Crazy turn of events overnight as it now looks like the remaining PAC schools are more likely to stick together, which would likely rule out ASU and Utah coming to the Big XII. Arizona still seems 50/50 to make the jump...if Arizona doesn't make the jump, best guess is that the Big XII rounds things out with UConn (which I think would be a terrible mistake, but I digress)

I recall reading the TV deal only allows a full share for 14 teams. The other 14 would have to accept a small haircut to expand to 16. I know the Big 10 is very proud of their schools being part of the Association of Universities, and I think Utah is a member. I don't know how much Utah wants to be seen as following BYU into a conference.

I recall reading the TV deal only allows a full share for 14 teams. The other 14 would have to accept a small haircut to expand to 16. I know the Big 10 is very proud of their schools being part of the Association of Universities, and I think Utah is a member. I don't know how much Utah wants to be seen as following BYU into a conference.It was stated numerous times yesterday that the Big 12 - ESPN agreement is for up to 16 teams. I've heard the same a few times already today.

Crazy turn of events overnight as it now looks like the remaining PAC schools are more likely to stick together, which would likely rule out ASU and Utah coming to the Big XII. Arizona still seems 50/50 to make the jump...if Arizona doesn't make the jump, best guess is that the Big XII rounds things out with UConn (which I think would be a terrible mistake, but I digress)

After all that, it looks like the PAC is going to die after all. This has been one of the most chaotic college football news days I can remember.

Crazy turn of events overnight as it now looks like the remaining PAC schools are more likely to stick together, which would likely rule out ASU and Utah coming to the Big XII. Arizona still seems 50/50 to make the jump...if Arizona doesn't make the jump, best guess is that the Big XII rounds things out with UConn (which I think would be a terrible mistake, but I digress)

Latest "breaking news" is that nothing was signed in the PAC 12 meeting.
The Big 10 has officially offered spots to Washington and Oregon.
Arizona, ASU and Utah need to be calling the Big 12 because the PAC isn't a major conference any more.

It was stated numerous times yesterday that the Big 12 - ESPN agreement is for up to 16 teams. I've heard the same a few times already today.

Yeah. I reread the Tramel column from yesterday. And he mentions that the Fox contract does not have the expansion to 16 payment clause. Only ESPN has that.

Latest "breaking news" is that nothing was signed in the PAC 12 meeting.
The Big 10 has officially offered spots to Washington and Oregon.
Arizona, ASU and Utah need to be calling the Big 12 because the PAC isn't a major conference any more.

Man, as someone who grew up watching Apple Cup games, this sucks

It was stated numerous times yesterday that the Big 12 - ESPN agreement is for up to 16 teams. I've heard the same a few times already today.

The contract with ESPN states they will pay a full share for any P5 team that joins the conference. The Fox portion of the deal does not have this stipulation. Fox has verbally agreed to pay a full portion for 14 teams. So it would not be guaranteed the teams 15 and 16 would receive a full share. So the other 14 may have to take a slight cut to equal out payouts. It would depend on what Fox is willing to do.

Man, as someone who grew up watching Apple Cup games, this sucks It severely hurts the Rose Bowl too.

Man, as someone who grew up watching Apple Cup games, this sucks

Yeah, i’m tired of all this movement. Although the SEC should be very entertaining.

There was a chance the traditional Big 10-Pac 10 Rose Bowl wasn't going to be played again any time soon. This year the Rose is a CFP semi host. The year after it might be wrapped up in the expanded playoffs anyway.

There was a chance the traditional Big 10-Pac 10 Rose Bowl wasn't going to be played again any time soon. This year the Rose is a CFP semi host. The year after it might be wrapped up in the expanded playoffs anyway.True.

The contract with ESPN states they will pay a full share for any P5 team that joins the conference. The Fox portion of the deal does not have this stipulation. Fox has verbally agreed to pay a full portion for 14 teams. So it would not be guaranteed the teams 15 and 16 would receive a full share. So the other 14 may have to take a slight cut to equal out payouts. It would depend on what Fox is willing to do.I would think FOX would be interested in gaining the Arizona market.

Arizona State and Utah could be forced to come in on partial shares if Fox doesn’t want to match. These schools don’t really have any other options so they would pretty much be forced to take whatever the Big 12 offers.

This conference realignment is a total $&!% show.

A major appeal of the smaller conferences were close rivalries and a consensus champion as teams only play twelve games a year.

Now we have sixteen and maybe eighteen team conferences with teams that have no historical rivalries whatsoever.

We might as well have a sixty team conference now.

& The Pac after dark got a lot of hate but I thought it was great. I am a night owl so watching a Saturday kickoff at 9pm was something I enjoyed.

& The Pac after dark got a lot of hate but I thought it was great. I am a night owl so watching a Saturday kickoff at 9pm was something I enjoyed.

those late games are not going away .. they will now just be big 12 and big 10 games


asu ua and uu to the big 12 is now official ..

those late games are not going away .. they will now just be big 12 and big 10 games

asu ua and uu to the big 12 is now official ..

not exactly. there's no way that the networks would allow a game like USC v. Ohio State to be played at 10pm Central Time.

there's some games that will definitely be played later in the night, but the ones people actually want to watch will not fall in that category.

not exactly. there's no way that the networks would allow a game like USC v. Ohio State to be played at 10pm Central Time.
there's some games that will definitely be played later in the night, but the ones people actually want to watch will not fall in that category.

A game of that magnitude wouldn’t get placed in that time slot anyways. Would likely be prime time on ABC or Fox. But there’s always going be west coast games airing later at night.

A game of that magnitude wouldn’t get placed in that time slot anyways. Would likely be prime time on ABC or Fox. But there’s always going be west coast games airing later at night.

Big 10 is longer being aired on ABC/ESPN.

The Big 12 bringing in 4 new AAU member schools to the conference that Oklahoma State can align with academically will help OSU obtain AAU status itself. There are now 5 AAU members in the Big 12.

The Big 12 bringing in 4 new AAU member schools to the conference that Oklahoma State can align with academically will help OSU obtain AAU status itself. There are now 5 AAU members in the Big 12.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aau080523ba.jpg

The Big 12 bringing in 4 new AAU member schools to the conference that Oklahoma State can align with academically will help OSU obtain AAU status itself. There are now 5 AAU members in the Big 12.
AAU doesn’t take athletic conference into consideration for qualification. It’s academic and OSU would have to raise its standing considerably. “Associations” have nothing to do with it.

Man, as someone who grew up watching Apple Cup games, this sucks

Yeah that does suck. Kinda like if you grew up watching a professional sports team and all of the sudden it ceased to exist entirely.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aau080523ba.jpg


Dunk HAHA.

This shows the US News ranking for each school plus their AAU status:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aau080523bc.jpg

The Big 12 bringing in 4 new AAU member schools to the conference that Oklahoma State can align with academically will help OSU obtain AAU status itself. There are now 5 AAU members in the Big 12.

LOL. OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status. Due to its admission standards alone, half the country could be nuked and OSU wouldn’t become an AAU school. That will absolutely never happen. Though I am a bit shocked that ASU is an AAU school.

AAU doesn’t take athletic conference into consideration for qualification. It’s academic and OSU would have to raise its standing considerably. “Associations” have nothing to do with it.

Yea, I actually completely agree with you. This was the response I was looking for. May want to tell Joe Harroz.

LOL. OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status. Due to its admission standards alone, half the country could be nuked and OSU wouldn’t become an AAU school. That will absolutely never happen. Though I am a bit shocked that ASU is an AAU school.

Wait, OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status? I’m shocked. I had no idea. Maybe once they are in the same athletic conference as Mizzoo and A&M it will put them past the finish line.

Wait, OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status? I’m shocked. I had no idea. Maybe once they are in the same athletic conference as Mizzoo and A&M it will put them past the finish line.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/aau08052d.jpg

^^ I basically just copied Joe Harroz statement word for word to show how ridiculous his statement was. Obviously I don’t think playing in a conference with a couple AAU members helps a school academically. When I said so after Joe Harroz made his comment I was an “OSU grad with an ulterior motive.” I wanted to see how many OU fans would think that was a sound argument when it wasn’t coming from their president. Turns out that number is zero.

^^ I basically just copied Joe Harroz statement word for word to show how ridiculous his statement was. Obviously I don’t think playing in a conference with a couple AAU members helps a school academically. When I said so after Joe Harroz made his comment I was an “OSU grad with an ulterior motive.” I wanted to see how many OU fans would think that was a sound argument when it wasn’t coming from their president. Turns out that number is zero.

Sure thing.

You could also go with "I was reading from a play" or "my child got ahold of my phone".

Wait, OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status? I’m shocked. I had no idea. Maybe once they are in the same athletic conference as Mizzoo and A&M it will put them past the finish line.

A couple of things really hinder OU. As mentioned, its admission standards, and two, the research money from the med center apparently isn’t able to be included because of its distance and separateness from the Norman campus. Research money is a big part. If the two could be combined for consideration then OU likely would be close, or in.

Big 10 is longer being aired on ABC/ESPN.

Ok. So those big times games would likely be prime time on Fox, CBS, and NBC.

Sure thing.

You could also go with "I was reading from a play" or "my child got ahold of my phone".

See post 528.

As someone who works in higher education, I want to share that in over a decade as a professor interacting with academics from all over the country at conferences, through organizations, applying for grants, and working on projects, I've never heard a single person mention conferences in any capacity as holding any meaning. Literally not even a single sentence. University president's may mention it for political purposes, but it's irrelevant to academia.

As someone who works in higher education, I want to share that in over a decade as a professor interacting with academics from all over the country at conferences, through organizations, applying for grants, and working on projects, I've never heard a single person mention conferences in any capacity as holding any meaning. Literally not even a single sentence. University president's may mention it for political purposes, but it's irrelevant to academia.

Yea. You would think that would be pretty obvious. Apparently it is not.

A couple of things really hinder OU. As mentioned, its admission standards, and two, the research money from the med center apparently isn’t able to be included because of its distance and separateness from the Norman campus. Research money is a big part. If the two could be combined for consideration then OU likely would be close, or in.

I've long thought OU's simply chasing National Merit Scholars instead of AAU status under Boren was a mistake. I have no idea what they do today.

The University of Kansas is AAU with near universal admissions in-state. KU-Med is included in KU's research money for AAU purposes and KU-Med in Kansas City, KS is about 20 miles further away from Lawrence than OU's Health Center from Norman. I do know that KU had to fight to have KU-Med's funding included. Maybe KU's Edwards campus in Overland Park helped, I don't know.

IIRC Nebraska giving up AAU status was in large part to losing the NU Medical School in Omaha's funding from their total research money. Iowa State just gave up AAU status because they couldn't keep with the increasing required research funding without having a medical school.

LOL. OU hasn’t even been able to achieve AAU status. Due to its admission standards alone, half the country could be nuked and OSU wouldn’t become an AAU school. That will absolutely never happen. Though I am a bit shocked that ASU is an AAU school.

Oklahoma State University admission rate: 68.4%
University of Oklahoma admission rate: 85.2%

So yeah, half the country could be nuked and OSU would really be awful still. The ONLY reason OSU doesn't have higher national rankings is simply because of the set up of the medical school plus that it's still very new in terms of medical schools and the fact OSU doesn't have a law school and some additional graduate level programs pulls does rankings by Newsweek and other publications significantly. Almost every major degree program OSU has ranks in the top 50 nationally with many in the top 10. Agriculture research is also completely discounted by AAU.

Frankly both OSU and OU should be AAU if universities like Arizona State are AAU. It's purely a means to discount rural based schools or schools who locate their medical schools in areas of a metro or urban center that actual need it like OU's. You can't tell me that where OU's medical school is located is a detractor to it being a good medical school and should count against OU being able to qualify for AAU status - let alone if OSU's medical school is located in Tulsa, an area that needs a major medical center and research areas.

Frankly, I hope that OSU opens a law school and other programs and goes straight at OU. For decades the two schools have had a solid partnership and allowed each to focus on areas and had a 'none compete' understanding. I say screw that now that OU leadership did what they did. Good luck to them. OSU is a way better managed university system and I hope OSU plays the same way OU does going forward, with no concern for anyone else but their own interest. OU has a massive amount of debt at their own doing and the state legislature and taxpayers better never bail them out either.

I've long thought OU's simply chasing National Merit Scholars instead of AAU status under Boren was a mistake. I have no idea what they do today.

The University of Kansas is AAU with near universal admissions in-state. KU-Med is included in KU's research money for AAU purposes and KU-Med in Kansas City, KS is about 20 miles further away from Lawrence than OU's Health Center from Norman. I do know that KU had to fight to have KU-Med's funding included. Maybe KU's Edwards campus in Overland Park helped, I don't know.

IIRC Nebraska giving up AAU status was in large part to losing the NU Medical School in Omaha's funding from their total research money. Iowa State just gave up AAU status because they couldn't keep with the increasing required research funding without having a medical school.

AAU also reduced and removed a large amount of any agriculture research that had been included and was the sole reason Nebraska lost AAU status and is a big part of why Iowa State gave it up. It required a significant reallocation of research dollars to keep it and would have required them to close their agriculture programs and others - which isn't going to happen in either of those states. Why AAU doesn't think being able to feed the global population in a sustainable/better way isn't important research completely blows my mind. Especially given the ways agriculture impacts global warming and other issues too (if it wasn’t for ag research, we’d be having the dust bowl every other decade). OSU's ag school is generally ranked top 3 in the world with Michigan State and Cornell. Schools with massive ag research programs like OSU, Nebraska, Iowa State are critical to our survival, but I get it's an elitist thing for academics on the coasts to look down on people (even OU fans love to talk down to OSU people about it). It's a way to protect other ‘old money’ institutions too and prop up tuition costs for them as well by pretending they are much harder/better schools. I went to grad school at a top 20 university and did undergrad at OSU so none of it surprises me. That school wasn't any more difficult than OSU was when I went there, but certainly had a ton of people who had way more generational money.