So this is what our Federal Government has evolved into. Go stomping into some tiny business, that has 5 or 6 employees and telling the owner how to compensate his employees. Deciding who can be paid a salary and who is hourly.

I've noticed the tip can at the register. Never tipped. Why, for what ? For putting beans on my plate in an excellent way ? Just get rid of the tip can and problem solved.

This is between Zach Edge and his employees. No one is forcing anyone to work for him. Surely the DOL has bigger fish to fry, but then, I'm not sure why we need a DOL.

booooo

So this is what our Federal Government has evolved into. Go stomping into some tiny business, that has 5 or 6 employees and telling the owner how to compensate his employees. Deciding who can be paid a salary and who is hourly.

I've noticed the tip can at the register. Never tipped. Why, for what ? For putting beans on my plate in an excellent way ? Just get rid of the tip can and problem solved.

This is between Zach Edge and his employees. No one is forcing anyone to work for him. Surely the DOL has bigger fish to fry, but then, I'm not sure why we need a DOL.

That's some real "Oldman Yells at Cloud" energy you got going there.

So this is what our Federal Government has evolved into. Go stomping into some tiny business, that has 5 or 6 employees and telling the owner how to compensate his employees. Deciding who can be paid a salary and who is hourly.

I've noticed the tip can at the register. Never tipped. Why, for what ? For putting beans on my plate in an excellent way ? Just get rid of the tip can and problem solved.

This is between Zach Edge and his employees. No one is forcing anyone to work for him. Surely the DOL has bigger fish to fry, but then, I'm not sure why we need a DOL.
+1 just like able

That's some real "Oldman Yells at Cloud" energy you got going there.
Sure it is not the other way around?

Well, then they've over stepped their bounds.

Time to get rid of them.

So employees of smaller companies like this don't deserve fair wages and treatment like those at the big companies? Got it!

So employees of smaller companies like this don't deserve fair wages and treatment like those at the big companies? Got it!

You don't know that. He could've been paying them a good wage where they don't need tips.

I really don't want to get involved more in this discussion. But one point I do want to add is that there was a period of time where Edge Craft was doing mandatory tips (I would have to look back at some of my receipts to see what the percentage was, something like 10-15% automatically added at the end of each purchase), with a note posted saying it was to cover higher operating expenses. So, that could be playing a role in all this.

I really don't want to get involved more in this discussion. But one point I do want to add is that there was a period of time where Edge Craft was doing mandatory tips (I would have to look back at some of my receipts to see what the percentage was, something like 10-15% automatically added at the end of each purchase), with a note posted saying it was to cover higher operating expenses. So, that could be playing a role in all this.

I never saw that. Its just your word.

I would guess, that its really hard for him to get help.

He's open four days a week. And its 11 am until he sells out.

Maybe hourly wage is not the way for him to get help . ya think.

But hey, I know a bunch of backyard barbecue people who would work for him for free, to learn.

Ah, looks like it was a 12% service fee that was automatically applied, not a tip. But looks like this would have been around 2022 based on the dates on this (hopefully attaching this works), so probably not relevant to these series of events.

Also, I no way agree with this reviewer (I think Edge Craft is the best tasting BBQ I've had in the metro), more wanting to highlight the words from the ownership.

19457

Ah, looks like it was a 12% service fee that was automatically applied, not a tip. But looks like this would have been around 2022 based on the dates on this (hopefully attaching this works), so probably not relevant to these series of events.

Also, I no way agree with this reviewer (I think Edge Craft is the best tasting BBQ I've had in the metro), more wanting to highlight the words from the ownership.

19457

And which employee was that suppose to go to ?

Hey people, if someone is putting prime Creekstone brisket on a 1K propane smoker, using post oak, in OKC .............then I'm gonna pay, whatever I gotta pay.

If you want cheap barbecue, go to Leo's . Or Jacks. Or Earls.

Good barbecue ain't cheap, not matter what the Federal DOL might think. Which, the DOL has no clue about good barbecue.

But hey, I know a bunch of backyard barbecue people who would work for him for free, to learn.

Sure, there's so much free labor out there he commits payroll violations for the hell of it.

You don't know that. He could've been paying them a good wage where they don't need tips.

I can GUARANTEE you it was not a paying customer who filed a complaint with the DOL...

I can GUARANTEE you it was not a paying customer who filed a complaint with the DOL...

Hey, there's plenty of cheap barbecue elsewhere. .............. so go get it .................and leave Zach alone.

Hey, there's plenty of cheap barbecue elsewhere. .............. so go get it .................and leave Zach alone.

bro it’s not about the barbecue it’s about the fact that he stole SEVENTY THOUSAND dollars from his employees!!!!

Don't get the thread shut down due to being egged on.
The ignore option works

Don't get the thread shut down due to being egged on.
The ignore option works

Yep

You don't know that. He could've been paying them a good wage where they don't need tips.

If only there was an orginization who could come in and look into that. Ohhhhh wait.

Zach Edge has been reading this thread and wanted me to post this statement on his behalf:


“Over two years ago, during our first year of operation as new business owners, we misinterpreted Department of Labor (DOL) employee wage regulations. Though our employees were making above industry standard and well over minimum wage at that time - including receiving 100% of tips - we were applying DOL regulations incorrectly. Once we understood our mistakes, we immediately took responsibility and corrected the errors. We’ve committed to a payment plan with DOL. We continue to focus on providing a great workplace for our employees and excellent, small-batch barbeque for our Edge Craft patrons.”

That's interesting considering DOL found the owner kept the tips (according to KFOR article).

Hope this was truly a misunderstanding because it's my local favorite.

I’m not in an industry that has to deal regularly with DOL in the capacity restaurants do, but I do lead a business in a heavily regulated industry, with tens of thousands of complex rules that rarely have consistent, uniformly applied interpretations. I have to rely on teams of lawyers to interpret what seems, on its face, like relatively straightforward regulation, but is actually highly nuanced and dependent on innumerable variables.

All that to say, I’d give Zach the benefit of the doubt, especially as a small business owner who likely doesn’t have the resources to hire lawyers to assist and in all likelihood is having to try to navigate regulations on his own. It’s not easy. It’s very stressful. And mistakes can happen.

The government does not make it easy to run a business in this state or country and then loves to seemingly randomly bring down the hammer, often targeting small businesses who can’t resource themselves like major corporations. It’s good the DOL is protecting workers and their wages and it’s good Zach is complying with a plan to rectify, but I’d recommend everyone first attempt to understand the context of these things before bringing out the pitchforks.

I’m not in an industry that has to deal regularly with DOL in the capacity restaurants do, but I do lead a business in a heavily regulated industry, with tens of thousands of complex rules that rarely have consistent, uniformly applied interpretations. I have to rely on teams of lawyers to interpret what seems, on its face, like relatively straightforward regulation, but is actually highly nuanced and dependent on innumerable variables.

All that to say, I’d give Zach the benefit of the doubt, especially as a small business owner who likely doesn’t have the resources to hire lawyers to assist and in all likelihood is having to try to navigate regulations on his own. It’s not easy. It’s very stressful. And mistakes can happen.

The government does not make it easy to run a business in this state or country and then loves to seemingly randomly bring down the hammer, often targeting small businesses who can’t resource themselves like major corporations. It’s good the DOL is protecting workers and their wages and it’s good Zach is complying with a plan to rectify, but I’d recommend everyone first attempt to understand the context of these things before bringing out the pitchforks.

Couldn't agree with this more. I have seen both sides of this complex issue. I have seen the company with high paid lawyers even make mistakes. I have seen employees get taken advantage of. It is never easy to run a business and this city makes it even harder.

These things usually stem from a disgruntled employee and the restaurant industry is often the only haven for people who can't find work elsewhere. I know enough really good, caring restaurant operators that it seems there is a never-ending stream of employee drama.

As an employer, I have been sued twice for completely outrageous things that were beyond ridiculous. I also managed HR for a large organization. The complexity of any one person is hard enough, and when multiplied is hard to comprehend.

I just tend to see the world more from the employer's/owner's point of view because of my ample experiences.


Edge Craft is such a great addition to our food scene that I hope this all blows over, especially since this is all in the process of being rectified.

Yeesh, some of yall give no benefit of the doubt. I could imagine the DOL under Biden is not fun to work with and they definitely arent flexible. This is the same DOL that would love to get rid of the gig economy even though thousands of individuals are happy to set their own hours and schedule working as a gig contractor. They didnt fine the guy, charge him and I assume he didnt admit any guilt. Made a mistake and is paying it back. Whats the issue?

But by all means, please dont go if you are mad about it. The lines have got too long for me so I'd appreciate a shorter wait.

Everybody likes a good public execution when it is not happening to them.

Everybody likes a good public execution when it is not happening to them.

Yep, and I've been on the other side of this and you simply would not believe how crazy things can get.

Drove by Edge Craft today at about Noon. It was packed with no parking spaces available in the lot or on street parking. I think the public has spoken for now.

This is becoming absurd.

Everyone has made their points repeatedly -- time to move on.

This is becoming absurd.

Everyone has made their points repeatedly -- time to move on.

1) Thank you, Pete.

2) This board seems to have more and more unhappy people everyday. It is slowly becoming similar to the cry babies on the OKC Reddit page.

1) Thank you, Pete.

2) This board seems to have more and more unhappy people everyday. It is slowly becoming similar to the cry babies on the OKC Reddit page.

That subreddit increases my appreciation for this forum every time I visit. And, yes, I still visit the subreddit because I'm not a smart man.

That subreddit increases my appreciation for this forum every time I visit. And, yes, I still visit the subreddit because I'm not a smart man.

Free entertainment is better than no entertainment!

Just came back from here. First time at EC. There was a long line outside and they did not open the doors until 11:05 is was a little chilly. Once inside I was towards the back of the line and it took about 25 minutes to place my order. 2 meat combo with brisket and pulled pork. Brisket was very good and they asked me if I wanted fatty or lean. Pulled pork was average. Red beans and rice was excellent and the Mac and Cheese was pretty good. Overall not as good as Clark Crew for the same price imo but better than most.

Just came back from here. First time at EC. There was a long line outside and they did not open the doors until 11:05 is was a little chilly. Once inside I was towards the back of the line and it took about 25 minutes to place my order. 2 meat combo with brisket and pulled pork. Brisket was very good and they asked me if I wanted fatty or lean. Pulled pork was average. Red beans and rice was excellent and the Mac and Cheese was pretty good. Overall not as good as Clark Crew for the same price imo but better than most.

I admit it’s been a few months since I’ve dined at Edge Craft, but in my opinion the brisket there is superior to Clark Crew’s version, which is also very good. Different strokes for different folks.

I admit it’s been a few months since I’ve dined at Edge Craft, but in my opinion the brisket there is superior to Clark Crew’s version, which is also very good. Different strokes for different folks.

The burnt ends at CC are pretty fire imo, especially if you get them with the secret menu sauce.

I admit it’s been a few months since I’ve dined at Edge Craft, but in my opinion the brisket there is superior to Clark Crew’s version, which is also very good. Different strokes for different folks.

Not just different strokes but totally different style of BBQ too.... EdgeCraft is Central Texas style and Clark Crew is Kandas City style.

Not just different strokes but totally different style of BBQ too.... EdgeCraft is Central Texas style and Clark Crew is Kandas City style.

I haven't yet had Edge Craft, but I've had Franklin's for instance, and Clark Crew. I favor brisket when I pay for someone else's cooked BBQ, so I'm curious if there's a difference in Texas style brisket and Kansas City style? I'm assuming it has to do with some sweetness in the rub or something extra instead of just SPG. Your comment and your knowledge of the topic made me curious.

For the record, I like Clark's burnt ends, but I like them naked. Franklin's is the style of beef I like to smoke, and he's certainly perfected brisket. I do appreciate Clark's, I don't mind paying him to smoke meat for me. If I had to be able to replicate either perfectly, I'd choose Franklin's.

...so I'm curious if there's a difference in Texas style brisket and Kansas City style?

Texas style is mostly flavored with salt & pepper... Most Texas style pit masters will have a few other herbs and spices they may throw in the mix but something sweet is an outlier for Texas brisket. You will find a light sweet glaze occasionally on the spare ribs but they also are mostly seasoned with salt and pepper.

KC style is sweeter and most rubs have sugar and sauces are gernally catsup/ketchup based and sweet.

I'm a certified Kansas City Barbecue Judge but I prefer Central Texas BBQ for brisket and ribs. When I first started going to Texas for BBQ. A lot of places didn't even offer sauce but the new generation of Texas pitmasters have embraced it and offer it for those that want to add sauce to their BBQ... But Texas style BBQ really doesn't need sauce in my opinion.

You also really don't find burnt ends in Texas. That's a KC thing.... In Texas they serve lean brisket from the flat and what they call moist, or fatty, brisket from the point. KC pitmasters turn the point into burnt ends also known as meat candy.

Texas style is mostly flavored with salt & pepper... Most Texas style pit masters will have a few other herbs and spices they may throw in the mix but something sweet is an outlier for Texas brisket. You will find a light sweet glaze occasionally on the spare ribs but they also are mostly seasoned with salt and pepper.

KC style is sweeter and most rubs have sugar and sauces are gernally catsup/ketchup based and sweet.

I'm a certified Kansas City Barbecue Judge but I prefer Central Texas BBQ for brisket and ribs. When I first started going to Texas for BBQ. A lot of places didn't even offer sauce but the new generation of Texas pitmasters have embraced it and offer it for those that want to add sauce to their BBQ... But Texas style BBQ really doesn't need sauce in my opinion.

You also really don't find burnt ends in Texas. That's a KC thing.... In Texas they serve lean brisket from the flat and what they call moist, or fatty, brisket from the point. KC pitmasters turn the point into burnt ends also known as meat candy.

Slightly off the main topic here, but which style would Earl's fall under (or a completely different style)? Also, if you have heard of Jack's Bar-B-Q (on NW 39th St), what style is that?

I've had several of these BBQ joints (just not many of the ones downtown/midtown), but Earl's and Jack's are the ones I go to most. I don't know this level of detail on BBQ, I just like to eat it (with BBQ sauce). Curious if it's worth suffering through a trip downtown/midtown to get Edge Craft or not.

Slightly off the main topic here, but which style would Earl's fall under (or a completely different style)? Also, if you have heard of Jack's Bar-B-Q (on NW 39th St), what style is that?

I've had several of these BBQ joints (just not many of the ones downtown/midtown), but Earl's and Jack's are the ones I go to most. I don't know this level of detail on BBQ, I just like to eat it (with BBQ sauce). Curious if it's worth suffering through a trip downtown/midtown to get Edge Craft or not.

Jack's, Earl's, and most of the remaining old school Oklahoma BBQ joints are influenced by Kansas City style BBQ but also do a few things differently and unique to Oklahoma. Been a few years since I've been to Jack's but it was always good in my opinion.

EdgeCraft has some great sauces, in my opinion, but their meat also does not need sauce in my opinion.

Texas style is mostly flavored with salt & pepper... Most Texas style pit masters will have a few other herbs and spices they may throw in the mix but something sweet is an outlier for Texas brisket. You will find a light sweet glaze occasionally on the spare ribs but they also are mostly seasoned with salt and pepper.

KC style is sweeter and most rubs have sugar and sauces are gernally catsup/ketchup based and sweet.

I'm a certified Kansas City Barbecue Judge but I prefer Central Texas BBQ for brisket and ribs. When I first started going to Texas for BBQ. A lot of places didn't even offer sauce but the new generation of Texas pitmasters have embraced it and offer it for those that want to add sauce to their BBQ... But Texas style BBQ really doesn't need sauce in my opinion.

You also really don't find burnt ends in Texas. That's a KC thing.... In Texas they serve lean brisket from the flat and what they call moist, or fatty, brisket from the point. KC pitmasters turn the point into burnt ends also known as meat candy.

Appreciate this. It's mostly what I had assumed. I started smoking spare ribs with just salt, pepper, and garlic instead of sweet rubs a few years ago, and rarely, if ever, do them differently.

Thanks for taking the time to say more!

Jack's, Earl's, and most of the remaining old school Oklahoma BBQ joints are influenced by Kansas City style BBQ but also do a few things differently and unique to Oklahoma. Been a few years since I've been to Jack's but it was always good in my opinion.

EdgeCraft has some great sauces, in my opinion, but their meat also does not need sauce in my opinion.

Yeah, Oklahoma BBQ definitely leans KC-style but has its own twist. Jack’s and Earl’s stick to that old-school flavor, and they’ve held up well over the years. EdgeCraft’s sauces slap, but their meat stands on its own

Jack's, Earl's, and most of the remaining old school Oklahoma BBQ joints are influenced by Kansas City style BBQ but also do a few things differently and unique to Oklahoma. Been a few years since I've been to Jack's but it was always good in my opinion.

EdgeCraft has some great sauces, in my opinion, but their meat also does not need sauce in my opinion.

Thank you for the info!

Yeah, Oklahoma BBQ definitely leans KC-style but has its own twist. Jack’s and Earl’s stick to that old-school flavor, and they’ve held up well over the years. EdgeCraft’s sauces slap, but their meat stands on its own

Actually, we think Jack's is kinda crap now - used to eat there regularly, but a couple of years ago their quality just went down (for meat *and* sides), so we went back a couple more times to see if it was a downhill slide, and to us, it certainly was. They're off our list now, unfortunately, which is a shame because we're at 36th/May, so it was a quick trip to them.

Actually, we think Jack's is kinda crap now - used to eat there regularly, but a couple of years ago their quality just went down (for meat *and* sides), so we went back a couple more times to see if it was a downhill slide, and to us, it certainly was. They're off our list now, unfortunately, which is a shame because we're at 36th/May, so it was a quick trip to them.

Sucks when a go-to spot falls off, especially when it’s right down the road but I guesse there are plenty of better BBQ out there.

I enjoy Clark Crew BBQ but have not tried Edge Craft. When I lived in DFW, always enjoyed Pecan Lodge in Deep Ellum and Hutchins in McKinney and Frisco. Franklin's in Austin is really good too!

Had Clark Crew for lunch yesterday (after a much-needed round of golf) and was reminded that every time I’m at CC I’m wishing I was at Edge Craft instead. I definitely prefer Texas style to KC, if I’m picking one over the other.

Actually, we think Jack's is kinda crap now - used to eat there regularly, but a couple of years ago their quality just went down (for meat *and* sides), so we went back a couple more times to see if it was a downhill slide, and to us, it certainly was. They're off our list now, unfortunately, which is a shame because we're at 36th/May, so it was a quick trip to them.

You know, now that you mention it, I was kind of thinking it wasn't as good as it used to be also (maybe not as extreme as you, but...). I hope Jack's recovers and doesn't go down the path of Oklahoma Station BBQ... they went so far downhill, they just had to close.

Actually, we think Jack's is kinda crap now - used to eat there regularly, but a couple of years ago their quality just went down (for meat *and* sides), so we went back a couple more times to see if it was a downhill slide, and to us, it certainly was. They're off our list now, unfortunately, which is a shame because we're at 36th/May, so it was a quick trip to them.

Jack's (IMHO) used to be the most incredible BBQ that you could get in this state. I worked at the old car wash right next door for a while (pretty close to 35 years ago!) and as a manager pinching my own pennies, I would get a regular side order of their beans and nothing else. There was enough brisket and other smoked meats in that order of beans to make a sandwich! Great BBQ but a big part of the charm of that place was the wonderful folks behind the counter, Donna and Nathan. They would later move up to the Britton Road location and they brought that magic along with them. I tried Jack a few more times after Donna and Nathan were gone, I think that Mike sold the business, and it was no longer anything special. Maybe Mike owns it again, I heard that from one of the workers there.