I hinted at this in another thread and it's why I took and posted the drone shots of the area last weekend.

Randy Hogan owns the lot that wraps around the Uhaul building and as you recall, there was a lot of turmoil about routing the Compress/Oklahoma intersection with the OKC Boulevard. This was to provide proper access to this property where future development was always the plan. Hogan obtained the lot as part of his overarching deal to develop Lower Bricktown.

Hogan filed rezoning plans for this property a couple of weeks ago. I know part of that request is an exception to the height limits in the district.

The Oklahoman is reporting he has partnered with a developer from California and everything is in the initial planning stage. Hogan states there would be two hotels close to Reno and a condo building on the south part of the property near the boulevard.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/06/05/hotels-housing-planned-lower-bricktown-downtown-oklahoma-city/7545461002/

From what I understand, there may be a lagoon between the hotels, which could number as many as three. Hogan also developed the Centennial condos just to the east along the canal.

It is also my understanding the hotel chain they are pursuing is the Dream Hotel (http://www.dreamhotelgroup.com/).

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul060521a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul060521b.jpg

Wow! My excitement is overshadowed by doubt. But still that would be awesome! Hope they don't make the design to include a brick façade! I'm over that!

Hogan filed rezoning plans for this property a couple of weeks ago. I know part of that request is an exception to the height limits in the district.


Exceptions as in he wants to go taller than the limits (what is the limit?) or shorter than the requirement?

Exceptions as in he wants to go taller than the limits (what is the limit?) or shorter than the requirement?

Taller.

I believe the restriction is 140 feet, which for a hotel is about 6-7 stories.

The Marriott Renaissance is about 200 feet; they successfully obtained a height exception as have other hotels in Bricktown.

Taller than 10 stories I can get behind, especially replacing a surface lot.

Taller than 10 stories I can get behind, especially replacing a surface lot.

Especially at that location since it is outside of the heart of the warehouse district, where scale matters more.

BTW, that California developer has been involved in a bunch of high-end hotels.

Including the W which I would absolutely love to see in OKC. Other than the Omni, we don't have anything at that level.

The Omni deal just says we can't give incentives to other hotels, right? That's kind of a good thing in this scenario.

The Omni deal just says we can't give incentives to other hotels, right? That's kind of a good thing in this scenario.

Yes. Pretty much barred from giving hotel incentives anywhere near downtown.

Hogan already received a super-sweetheart deal on the land and could always ask for incentives for the condos/parking.

Fantastic! I suppose that explains why these lots were so up front and center in that last set of aerials.

The Oklahoman article, for completeness: Lower Bricktown developers hope to add hotels, housing to OKC entertainment district (https://amp.oklahoman.com/amp/7545461002?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&__twitter_impression=true).

Gawd,I hope this is urban and not so Randy Hogan.

There's no mention as to if the lagoon is ever intended to connect to the canal, but surely it's been thought about... though their site plans from the article don't exactly leave room for it...

I mean, this is one of the closest points where extending the canal is probably the least effort (minus tearing up a brand new plaza). And then once you're on this property, getting over to scissortail would be very practical if we incorporate it with the new Thunder Alley stuff, instead of having that extra parking... can you imagine?

I'm not the biggest of canal extension proponents, but this is about the easiest way to do it...

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I know there are grade issues. I'm not an engineer and will leave it to them to figure out.

I don't think there are any plans being discussed to extend the canal to this property.

Gawd,I hope this is urban and not so Randy Hogan.I get lost on these comments? Not so Randy Hogan. Are the restaurants and offices at Lake Hefner, the Centennial Condos, Harkins Theatre, The Half rural or am I missing something?

I get lost on these comments? Not so Randy Hogan. Are the restaurants and offices at Lake Hefner, the Centennial Condos, Harkins Theatre, The Half rural or am I missing something?

Yes, lower Bricktown is suburban feeling, like it could be part of Chisholm Creek.

Yes, lower Bricktown is suburban feeling, like it could be part of Chisholm Creek.

+1. I’m in the same boat Re: Chisholm Creek. The new to market concepts would be so much more impressive if they actually incorporated decent design and some semblance of walkability.

That's a big property. Just look at the very large new Bricktown Renaissance hotel on Sheridan in that pic. You could fit like 6 of those buildings on that area (with no room to spare of course, just comparing the scale).

Hopefully, his plans include some density and street interaction. I would love to stay in a hotel with a room overlooking the BNSF viaduct. Very busy line and I love trains.

They really ought to play to that as there are a lot of train lovers out there. Make the west facing rooms decked out with train photos and call them "train-side", as in, I'd like a train-side room please.

Yeah, the site plan in Steve's article looks like more of the same from Mr. Hogan.

Who owns the lot between this and the boulevard? The city? OCURA?

who owns the lot between this and the boulevard? The city? Ocura?

odot.

I get lost on these comments? Not so Randy Hogan. Are the restaurants and offices at Lake Hefner, the Centennial Condos, Harkins Theatre, The Half rural or am I missing something?So again I'm missing the point on your original comment of not so Randy Hogan?

Would this reinitiate talks to realign Oklahoma or did those condos permanently torpedo that idea?

odot.

Any chance they try to negotiate the sale of that as well to have it front the boulevard as well?

Any chance they try to negotiate the sale of that as well to have it front the boulevard as well?

It’s ODOT right of way land. I doubt ODOT would relinquish and portion of that land. They very very rarely do.

It’s ODOT right of way land. I doubt ODOT would relinquish and portion of that land. They very very rarely do.

odot trades land with the city of okc all the time .. and then the OKCURA puts it up for RFP ...

Like the section of land one block to the west where the Thunder were planning on building their fan experience/Team shop before Covid hit. Don't see anything stopping them from doing the same here.

Like the section of land one block to the west where the Thunder were planning on building their fan experience/Team shop before Covid hit. Don't see anything stopping them from doing the same here.

yep

This was the site plan included with the rezoning request.

In that application, they also stipulate a maximum height of 300 feet, which would be 50% taller than anything else in Bricktown; about 15-20 stories.

That's a lagoon in the middle fronting all three proposed properties with no connection to the canal.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul060921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul060521a.jpg

Hogan gonna Hogan.

Does an actual connection to the canal matter that much? I have to wonder if people would see the lagoon as part of the general water theme regardless. Plus, pushing the canal south past Reno would require going through that playground and the new flagpole location and then under the streetcar stop which seems like a big lift.

I like the proposed height.

The height is fine, and while I’m appreciative of the investment, what bothers me is that the site plan isn’t urban at all. With those driveways, green space, and the distance between the buildings, this looks like something that could be built on Memorial Road.

There is no longer a playground, they took it out when they revamped that plaza a couple years ago.

Massive planning failure for such a huge lot. So much wasted space that prevents any sort of densification of the lots in the future.

By rearranging the same exact features, you can leave room for a surface lot (purple) which could be developed into a building in the future, while also preserving the Compress Ave alignment and could even put a pedestrian bridge over the lagoon if so desired. Apologies for the phallic-looking driveway, that wasn't the intention.
https://i.gyazo.com/a1acdbd85431d36a0d6e93cc0360101c.jpg

Does an actual connection to the canal matter that much? I have to wonder if people would see the lagoon as part of the general water theme regardless. Plus, pushing the canal south past Reno would require going through that playground and the new flagpole location and then under the streetcar stop which seems like a big lift.

I like the proposed height.

Doesn't matter, but academically interesting to look at.

So I took a screenshot of the area on maps, then I very crudely cloned the end of the canal directly south, and then west. I then superimposed the site plan, and reduced the opacity, and the road they propose exactly matches up with where the canal would need to be, which I thought was interesting. IMO they could do this, and even have it go under the condos (imagine having basement level access to the canal level from your building?) if they wanted to. Again, I'm not necessarily a proponent of this, but it represents a bit of a potentially missed opportunity.

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This is a prime urban lot that someone would have to go out of their way to mess up and yet they still managed to do it.

This development is completely turned inward and ignores everything around it. The fact that the none of the buildings interact with or even acknowledge Reno is as bad as it gets. what a mess.

So again I'm missing the point on your original comment of not so Randy Hogan?

What are you not getting? Nothing he has done downtown is urban at all.

That site plan was not graced by the hand of a great architect.

Does an actual connection to the canal matter that much? I have to wonder if people would see the lagoon as part of the general water theme regardless. Plus, pushing the canal south past Reno would require going through that playground and the new flagpole location and then under the streetcar stop which seems like a big lift.

I like the proposed height.

I kind of feel like an actual canal connection would make the overall project more successful. Go walk downtown or to San Antonio during a heatwave and see how much nicer it is than out in the blazing sun.

Isn’t this in the design district? Gird your loins and prepare for war. This project can and will be improved by citizen input.

Isn’t this in the design district? Gird your loins and prepare for war. This project can and will be improved by citizen input.

I thought the Bricktown Urban Design District was only for north of Reno? I hope I am wrong and we can get this design improved.

The Facebook response to this news is pretty comical. Majority of comments are upset that a free parking lot is about to disappear. Goes to show you what the average person cares about outside of the OKCtalk walls. Baffling if you ask me

The Facebook response to this news is pretty comical. Majority of comments are upset that a free parking lot is about to disappear. Goes to show you what the average person cares about outside of the OKCtalk walls. Baffling if you ask me

The two things you can be sure of with any post we make on social media: people will moan about traffic and parking.

It's particularly sad considering this is OKC where we have parking in front of virtually every business and almost zero traffic.

The Facebook response to this news is pretty comical. Majority of comments are upset that a free parking lot is about to disappear. Goes to show you what the average person cares about outside of the OKCtalk walls. Baffling if you ask me
I came here to make the same comment. LOL.

To quote Marty from Back to the Future: “I guess you guys where’re ready for that, but your kids are gonna love it”

There are plenty of reasons to not like this development and none of them involve losing a barren parking lot.

Awesome clap back:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/facebook061321aa.jpg

Still more. This is awesome.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/facebook061321ba.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/facebook061321ca.jpg

Those are great! I’d love to see people respond with the numerous park and ride options the streetcar offers as well.

Besides knowing a few people who do have mobility issues, I’ve never seen a city other than OKC where so many people get so frustrated when they can’t park in front of what they’re going. I was casually dating this girl when I was in town a couple months ago who almost had a mental breakdown when she couldn’t find a parking spot right in front of the restaurant— there was one about 1000 feet away. I can’t begin to tell you how many people I know in Edmond who live in the same subdivision often a 5-10 minute walk who drive instead of walk during nice weather. It’s nuts.

Yeah, pretty ridiculous.

I wear a fitness tracker and make sure to walk at least 5 miles a day. So, I'm exactly the opposite... I park far away and then enjoy the stroll.

Even at a store where you have to carry stuff, they have shopping carts.


When you look at the profiles of the people bellyaching about parking, inevitably they are, not surprisingly, very overweight.

At places like Wal-Mart/Target the amount of people who will wait MINUTES to park in a space that looks like it's being vacated is truly astounding.

At places like Wal-Mart/Target the amount of people who will wait MINUTES to park in a space that looks like it's being vacated is truly astounding.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone driving around looking for a close spot, and I park farther out and am in the store before they've even parked their car.

And then without a handicapped sticker, go jump on a store scooter.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen someone driving around looking for a close spot, and I park farther out and am in the store before they've even parked their car.

And then without a handicapped sticker, go jump on a store scooter.
Yes this is another big one. I’ve also had people that will haul ass to a spot they think I’m going to take that’s close and almost cause an accident or be flat out reckless.

But it never ceases to amaze me as you said how many will circle around for a front spot when there’s spaces like 10-15 stalls down.

At places like Wal-Mart/Target the amount of people who will wait MINUTES to park in a space that looks like it's being vacated is truly astounding.

I'd rather park out in the boonies away from the front of the store than wait for a close in spot. My only exception is when it's really cold out, then I'll try and find a close spot. But yeah, there's been a number of times where I'll see someone waiting for a close spot, I'll park, and they'll still be waiting as I'm walking by. LOL It's so stupid.

At places like Wal-Mart/Target the amount of people who will wait MINUTES to park in a space that looks like it's being vacated is truly astounding.

It's not just Wal-Mart and Target shoppers. This happens at all types of places and events across wide socio-economic strata. It's odd.. I have friends who will go to NYC and walk miles and miles a day while there, but they get back here and drive around and around to get close parking spots. Same people.

Walking around in a pedestrian friendly environment like NYC is a much different experience than walking through a large, pedestrian unfriendly parking lot dodging cars driven by people who may or may not be paying attention. People want to park close up because it means they spend less time walking through a space that has zero engineering controls that make it safe for people walking through it.

Well said, David.

Driving through a crowded parking lot is way worse to me than walking an extra 150 ft. Sign me up for the walk any day.

Walking around in a pedestrian friendly environment like NYC is a much different experience than walking through a large, pedestrian unfriendly parking lot dodging cars driven by people who may or may not be paying attention. People want to park close up because it means they spend less time walking through a space that has zero engineering controls that make it safe for people walking through it.

Of course, and some of it is just laziness.

Walking around in a pedestrian friendly environment like NYC is a much different experience than walking through a large, pedestrian unfriendly parking lot dodging cars driven by people who may or may not be paying attention. People want to park close up because it means they spend less time walking through a space that has zero engineering controls that make it safe for people walking through it.

Yes, it is pretty easy to understand why massive parking lots suck and yet people will go to war to protect them instead of just making a a pedestrian friendly environment.

Walking around in a pedestrian friendly environment like NYC is a much different experience than walking through a large, pedestrian unfriendly parking lot dodging cars driven by people who may or may not be paying attention. People want to park close up because it means they spend less time walking through a space that has zero engineering controls that make it safe for people walking through it.

Keep in mind NYC was laid out long before cars were a thing. The culture is way different.