I saw on the news someone from the Convention and Tourism agency speaking about this project.

I am getting the impression that there is more traction for the hotel towers than the condo tower. With that being said the hotels will be probably be built first.

Funny to see OKCTalk images on the Cube 3 Architecture website:

https://www.cube3.com/portfolio_page/dream-bourbon-hotel-2/

Did they even ask you for that?

Did they even ask you for that?

No, never knew about until I checked their site today.

wow

you should probably start water marking them anyway

No, never knew about until I checked their site today.
I’d be upset. Seems like it’s simple common courtesy to ask permission.

Any updates?

Not that I know of. This was announced back in July. Should of seen some hard renderings by now.

Its been a minute since hearing about this Pete any knew news?

Since this is a very sizeable project and they are seeking public assistance, I'm sure they are still in negotiations with the Alliance for Economic Development (the gatekeeper and clearinghouse for most of the local incentives) to finalize terms.

This is important because it will allow them to finalize their budget and solicit preliminary construction bids and that will determine if they want to tweak their plans.

Once they have the somewhat final plan, the architects and engineers will develop detailed plans which first have to be reviewed by the Alliance and ultimately City Council.

I wouldn't expect to see detailed renderings and plans for at least a month and maybe several months.

In the last few weeks I’ve had unrelated meetings and conversations with multiple people directly involved with this project in different capacities and it is indeed very real and remains on track.

That’s not a guarantee that it will happen, but there is no reason whatsoever to be concerned about there not being publicly-available plans for this project right now.

I found this site plan.

It shows they plan to convert all the remaining parking to the west of Harkins to valet.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dream122821a.jpg

The site plan really makes me wish this group could get the U-Haul building and move the "boulevard" entrance back to Oklahoma Ave.

I was thinking the same thing. That U-Haul building is a barrier and hinders sound development. Hopefully after this project is complete & successful. Randy Hogan can buy them out and redevelopment that site to something great.

^^^^^^^^
That building is in a remarkable state of preservation underneath the metal siding they installed a couple of decades ago. As in, fully intact original casement windows, hardwood floors that are painted but in otherwise remarkable condition, etc.. Very few significant alterations inside or out. The storage units inside are simple sheetrock and plywood boxes sitting on the floors. Demo would take an afternoon with a Bobcat (OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration but it would be quite simple and straightforward).

It could relatively easily be a spectacular redevelopment a la 21C, or amazing loft housing. It’s a hidden gem. That said, I’m more concerned about a developer acquiring it and knocking it down rather than redeveloping it. I’d rather it sit as-is (not the best adaptive re-use but still occupied with enough revenue to provide for upkeep) than get into the hands of someone inexperienced with or antagonistic toward historic properties.

Now that building such as the Skirvin, Ford Model T assembly plant (21C) and FNC have been saved it is really one of the last remaining large-scale historic downtown properties that have true game-changing redevelopment potential.

Nice, but to the average person its just a storage unit....lol

Agree 100% with Urbanized. It would be a devastating loss to lose the U-Haul building. I’d rather lose this entire hotel/apartment development than lose that building.

Nice, but to the average person its just a storage unit....lol
Not sure I get the point you’re attempting to make. I’m certainly not saying its current programming is the highest and best use of the building. Only that it has a ton of redevelopment potential and that the current use preserves the opportunity for the right adaptive reuse to present itself.

For those who don’t know, here is a refresher on what is under the sheet metal siding, and preserved in a near-pristine manner:

https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r960-9c73abd1e2ecf82cb51f5e309d8b9737.jpg

^^^^^^^^
That building is in a remarkable state of preservation underneath the metal siding they installed a couple of decades ago. As in, fully intact original casement windows, hardwood floors that are painted but in otherwise remarkable condition, etc.. Very few significant alterations inside or out. The storage units inside are simple sheetrock and plywood boxes sitting on the floors. Demo would take an afternoon with a Bobcat (OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration but it would be quite simple and straightforward).

It could relatively easily be a spectacular redevelopment a la 21C, or amazing loft housing. It’s a hidden gem. That said, I’m more concerned about a developer acquiring it and knocking it down rather than redeveloping it. I’d rather it sit as-is (not the best adaptive re-use but still occupied with enough revenue to provide for upkeep) than get into the hands of someone inexperienced with or antagonistic toward historic properties.

Now that building such as the Skirvin, Ford Model T assembly plant (21C) and FNC have been saved it is really one of the last remaining large-scale historic downtown properties that have true game-changing redevelopment potential.
Just to be clear, I knew this and I want it saved and converted to something other than storage. And I thought the people behind the Dream project might have the pockets for it. I do not want to lose it!

I found this site plan.

It shows they plan to convert all the remaining parking to the west of Harkins to valet.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dream122821a.jpg

That valet lot change is going to be annoying, speaking as a regular patron of Harkins who always parks in that lot.

I guess the Haul building is very profitable. Apparently the owners (out of state) value it highly. Seems odd since there is minimal drive area. I do think the highest and best use would be conversion to a mixed use. Last I heard, the City of OKC offered pretty good $ but the owners wanted a lot more.....

I'd much rather see the U-Haul building have it's walls exposed again and converted to a big mixed use building than be what it is now. Especially if they can make it look as good as the 21C

I guess the Haul building is very profitable. Apparently the owners (out of state) value it highly. Seems odd since there is minimal drive area. I do think the highest and best use would be conversion to a mixed use. Last I heard, the City of OKC offered pretty good $ but the owners wanted a lot more.....

It stays completely filled up as a storage facility, and not a cheap one. And the U-haul rental is among the busiest in town, probably owing to central location and the fact that many renting U-hauls do so online or on the phone rather than driving around town looking for a U-haul rental.

I have no insight regarding the ownership’s finances, but I’d guess there’s a good chance the building is completely paid for. I’m sure they are in a very strong financial position with that building and business. For years I’ve felt the best way to get them to let go would likely be to agree to build a comparable facility for them elsewhere, and then swap (probably with significant additional cash incentive). Otherwise, why would they leave?

You can’t just shut down a viable business and take away property for redevelopment because you’d like for it to be something else. The property is in no way derelict.

All of us would love to see different aesthetics to the uhaul building, but we also need to acknowledge it performs a vital and integral service for the development of downtown as a population center. With smaller residences and for businesses there is a great need for storage space. They actually facilitate development.

172621726317264
https://floridayimby.com/2021/12/mv-real-estate-holdings-and-driftwood-capital-announce-joint-venture-on-185m-riverside-wharf-development-in-downtown-miami.html

Thought Id share this
The development is projected to break ground in 2022 and be completed by 2025.

172621726317264
https://floridayimby.com/2021/12/mv-real-estate-holdings-and-driftwood-capital-announce-joint-venture-on-185m-riverside-wharf-development-in-downtown-miami.html

Thought Id share this
The development is projected to break ground in 2022 and be completed by 2025.

As much as I want to have blinding faith in the development of this project, I have to say that I am a bit skeptical of the potential final design. If it all comes to be, all I can see this location being a monumental step-down from it's various sister locations.

If you take the Omni into perspective, ours looks like a step-down to the may others in that chain. Granted they could look to upgrade, but they could also stand pat and remain satisfied with what's currently established.

Here's to me being wrong when the final renders come out. I hope that will be the case.

All of the Dream hotels have an amazing design. If we get a scaled back design for OKC it’ll definitely curb my enthusiasm a bit for this town. The Omni is nice but I do wish it were taller and better designed.

All of the Dream hotels have an amazing design. If we get a scaled back design for OKC it’ll definitely curb my enthusiasm a bit for this town. The Omni is nice but I do wish it were taller and better designed.

You're not the only one. It's like one side is pretty with all the LED lights for every two floors to decorate the building, great view of the park, all that. Then the other side is like this bleak Soviet Union era gulag. I understand there's SUPPOSED to be a mixed development beside it that would distract from all that concrete, but you can see that iron curtain of a wall all the way from the Wheeler District. I know the inside is nice, but it's like they put the effort into three of four of the sides to look good.

You're not the only one. It's like one side is pretty with all the LED lights for every two floors to decorate the building, great view of the park, all that. Then the other side is like this bleak Soviet Union era gulag. I understand there's SUPPOSED to be a mixed development beside it that would distract from all that concrete, but you can see that iron curtain of a wall all the way from the Wheeler District. I know the inside is nice, but it's like they put the effort into three of four of the sides to look good.
We’re not Dallas, but they at least put effort into making that Omni’s exterior design. The exterior of ours is rough.

We’re not Dallas, but they at least put effort into making that Omni’s exterior design. The exterior of ours is rough.

I think it's worth noting that the City of Dallas owns that hotel and it is just operated by Omni.

I think it's worth noting that the City of Dallas owns that hotel and it is just operated by Omni.
Thanks for the clarification.

We’re not Dallas, but they at least put effort into making that Omni’s exterior design. The exterior of ours is rough.
Nobody here has said we’re Dallas though.

Omni Frisco Hotel is pretty much the same concept as OKC's

172621726317264
https://floridayimby.com/2021/12/mv-real-estate-holdings-and-driftwood-capital-announce-joint-venture-on-185m-riverside-wharf-development-in-downtown-miami.html

Thought Id share this
The development is projected to break ground in 2022 and be completed by 2025.

I am not a fan of that design, it seems like a party club instead of a hotel

I am not a fan of that design, it seems like a party club instead of a hotel

It's Miami, what do u expect. Although I will say a lot of the dream hotels are so over the top in the architectural design that they almost look like something from a company that dreamed too big and ended in bankruptcy. Haha dreamed too big, boy do I make myself laugh.

172621726317264
https://floridayimby.com/2021/12/mv-real-estate-holdings-and-driftwood-capital-announce-joint-venture-on-185m-riverside-wharf-development-in-downtown-miami.html

Thought Id share this
The development is projected to break ground in 2022 and be completed by 2025.

Love it!

Love it!
I do too. That design is beautiful. If OKC can get anything similar it will be one of the best looking buildings in the city.

Any updates?

Hey Pete any new updates?

No, no movement in a while.

I suspect they are preparing their construction drawings which will then have to be approved by design review.

Any updates on this? I've been incredibly anxious to see what they're proposing, and it's kind of a downer it's taking so long. Especially when they want to be up and running within a couple years.

I suspect we'll see a formal submission for design review in the next few months.

Until then, I'm sure lots is happening in terms of planning, financing and engineering.

I suspect we'll see a formal submission for design review in the next few months.

Until then, I'm sure lots is happening in terms of planning, financing and engineering.

Lol

why lol DC?

why lol DC?

I have consistently lampooned the grandiose plans proffered by OKC leadership over the years. There have been so many promised large projects that have failed to materialize that I view these announcements with skepticism. Hope I’m wrong

Lol

I take it you never done any real development. Otherwise the LOL doesn’t make any sense. You don’t just make a few pretty drawings and then break ground and have it built a few month later.

The civil engineering firm has a signed contract. This is no joke.

Just curious D. C. Sooner about your comment 'Lol' and not trying to pile on: What promised large projects that have failed to materialize that you view these announcements with skepticism. (Hope I’m wrong). [Note: There's a difference between a 'promise vs a wish list.]

Which 'promised large projects. . . ' name a few and who promised them.

The Lumber Yard was a wish list fishing expedition. The only ones that I can think of that might fit this criteria was the replacement for the theatre just west of the Myriad Gardens. And that group was after huge incentives.

Bump. Any news on this project ?

Nothing to see, but my understanding is this is still moving forward (financing, design, etc.).

Nothing to see, but my understanding is this is still moving forward (financing, design, etc.).

I've been wondering about this. I've about given up hope. lol I was expecting to see designs come out by now. Especially with the timeline they gave.

I've been wondering about this. I've about given up hope. lol I was expecting to see designs come out by now. Especially with the timeline they gave.

I'm sure there are a bunch of behind-the-scenes meetings with the city, especially regarding incentives.

I'm sure there are a bunch of behind-the-scenes meetings with the city, especially regarding incentives.

Incentives? How? It's two blocks from the Omni, which has a non-compete on city incentives for hotels.

^^^^^^^^
Besides hotel, the prospective development involves residential and some mixed use. TIF could be applied to those portions. The item that seems most obvious for incentive would be the structured parking. If parking there were made publicly available it would especially qualify, I believe.

Incentives? How? It's two blocks from the Omni, which has a non-compete on city incentives for hotels.

There are also condos, common areas, parking structures, restaurant space, etc.

^^^^^^^^
Besides hotel, the prospective development involves residential and some mixed use. TIF could be applied to those portions. The item that seems most obvious for incentive would be the structured parking. If parking there were made publicly available it would especially qualify, I believe.

There are no real parameters on what qualifies for TIF.

There is this Omni exclusion of hotels getting TIF within a limited distance, but otherwise it can be used for anything. TIF is just a broad grant to a project and the developers can spend it any way they seem fit.

You continue to characterize it as nothing but a gift; free money simply handed over to developers with no strategy or controls. I understand that you simply don’t care much for TIF, but this characterization is not a fair one. From the website of The Alliance For Economic Development (https://www.theallianceokc.org/economic-tools):


Tax increment financing districts are an economic tool to promote development in blighted, underserved, or economically distressed urban areas. TIF helps fund new economic growth that will attract new investors, consumers and employers into the area.
​
TIF monies can be allocated in two ways:
​

The city can construct public improvements (parking, infrastructure, streetscape, and/or landscaping improvements) on publicly owned land or easements
The developer, or redeveloper, can receive an allocation of TIF revenues to fund eligible TIF project costs in the form of “assistance in development financing” upon meeting conditions to the allocation

In the case of this particular development, TIF would most likely be applied to infrastructure, ie street reconfiguration, drainage, public amenities such as sidewalks plus publicly-available parking.

This is a VERY appropriate usage when you consider the public funds typically used when accommodating (already much cheaper) suburban development in the fringes of the city (roads, sewer and on and on).

The second bullet point applies to TIF usage clearly of the “but for” variety. That is, the development would be considered desirable by the City - stabilizing, restorative, expected to spark new development and/or ancillary tax collections - but would be unfeasible but for public assistance.

Perhaps the best example of this would be First National, which had LESS THAN zero chance of redevelopment BUT FOR extensive public assistance.

Another great example would be Criterion, which would almost certainly still be an empty lot had TIF not helped them overcome the additional construction expense driven by restrictive Bricktown Urban Design District requirements. The City decided that providing enough assistance to make a properly-designed building financially viable for the stated purpose had a long-term community benefit.

Listen, I’m not trying to say that TIF is beyond reproach. I think it is always a good idea to continue to take a hard look at how public money is spent. But continuing to characterize it as basically free money for rich guys does a disservice to honest discourse.

^

I've never, ever said I "don't care for TIF" or that it's "free money for rich guys"; It's just that there is so much misinformation about it.

The public infrastructure bullet point is how the CITY can use TIF.

The second bullet point actually says exactly what I stated: a developer can use the money in any way they seem fit, which was exactly my point. They merely submit a spreadsheet that shows they can't obtain all the financing they need to do a project, if all the powers that be agree, they get the money and then spend it.

BTW, all developers put some hard money into a deal, as you can't get 100% financing just like that isn't possible in buying a house. So the "gap" could be that they just don't want to put any more hard money in the deal, which is exactly what happens in most real estate development and the reason why 99.9% of new developments don't need TIF or other incentives.