What is the actual sq ft proposed on the Legends tower? What is Devon’s?

Honestly, i'd be happy if we just had the three shorter buildings built. They're perfectly fine on their own and we dont really need Legends being all weird here.

What is the actual sq ft proposed on the Legends tower? What is Devon’s?

County assessor shows 1.73 million sf for Devon Energy Center as a whole, and 1.42 million sf for the tower itself.

2.31 million sf is proposed for Legends Tower.

I still think the tower makes more sense west of BNSF. Fill in the actual core before spreading out. Actually the whole development makes sense adjacent to the new arena. Why not on the Paycom site if you ignore the proposed timeline of Boardwalk. Of course that is very simplistic given that the cost of land is a thing.......

I still think the tower makes more sense west of BNSF. Fill in the actual core before spreading out. Actually the whole development makes sense adjacent to the new arena. Why not on the Paycom site if you ignore the proposed timeline of Boardwalk. Of course that is very simplistic given that the cost of land is a thing.......

I think expanding eastward is necessary due to the relatively little density that occurs there. The Innovation District and the OU Medical Tower is as much as we're getting east of I-235, but there are still areas that can be built up in Bricktown. Since this development kinda broke the mold of a height restriction, everything else in Bricktown has been pretty much been given a proverbial green light to shoot upward. Now that may imply that older buildings get upgraded, or that they may get torn down and rebuilt with the Bricktown aesthetic. But either way, it should be shooting upward as a result of this.

Plus I think there are a few places that could use some development other than being massive lots dedicated to parking, and even if there needs to be parking somewhere nearby, that can be built upward, not sprawled out. So my next candidate for a huge vertical development would have to be the Joe Carter Lot east of the ballpark. Then there's also the massive grass lot east of that which can hold two large scale developments, even a few highrise hotels on both Sheridan and Lincoln. Hopefully the landowners don't sell out to the plans of cheap commercial development.

County assessor shows 1.73 million sf for Devon Energy Center as a whole, and 1.42 million sf for the tower itself.

2.31 million sf is proposed for Legends Tower.

Thanks. So Legends is proposed as about 35% more than Devon, even though it is substantially more floors and taller.

Thanks. So Legends is proposed as about 35% more than Devon, even though it is substantially more floors and taller.


Since we are so very deserving of the Legends Tower, maybe they'll do it on the cheap if they FAA approves.

Thanks. So Legends is proposed as about 35% more than Devon, even though it is substantially more floors and taller.

You are talking about just square footage and not the fact that the taller you build, costs increase substantially.

And also, again, that Devon is an office building vs. high-end condos and hotel rooms. And Devon paid cash for their entire project while Matteson is borrowing.

Maybe only be 35% more square footage but easily double the cost to build. So, if the Devon complex was built for around $1 billion in today's dollars, Legends Tower alone would be at least $2 billion alone plus three more 34-story towers, the podium, etc. The stated $1.6 billion budget isn't remotely feasible.

Plus I think there are a few places that could use some development other than being massive lots dedicated to parking, and even if there needs to be parking somewhere nearby, that can be built upward, not sprawled out. So my next candidate for a huge vertical development would have to be the Joe Carter Lot east of the ballpark. Then there's also the massive grass lot east of that which can hold two large scale developments, even a few highrise hotels on both Sheridan and Lincoln. Hopefully the landowners don't sell out to the plans of cheap commercial development.

That parking lot might take some cues from the Santa Fe Square development in Tulsa.

You are talking about just square footage and not the fact that the taller you build, costs increase substantially.

And also, again, that Devon is an office building vs. high-end condos and hotel rooms. And Devon paid cash for their entire project while Matteson is borrowing.

Maybe only be 35% more square footage but easily double the cost to build. So, if the Devon complex was built for around $1 billion in today's dollars, Legends Tower alone would be at least $2 billion alone plus three more 34-story towers, the podium, etc. The stated $1.6 billion budget isn't remotely feasible.
I understand and read your assumptions in your previous post. In my career I’ve worked with some of the largest developments in the world and do forensic engineering projects for asset valuation now. I don’t dispute the budget issues. i was just trying to accurately compare the mass of the two.

Bricktown’s $1.6B development awaits land deal, permits (https://journalrecord.com/2024/09/bricktowns-1-6b-development-awaits-land-deal-permits/)
By : Kathryn McNutt//The Journal Record//September 18, 2024//

OKLAHOMA CITY — Construction was expected to begin this summer on the Bricktown development that includes plans for the tallest building in the U.S., but the developer has yet to get the building permits needed to start.

The real estate and financial transactions have not been finalized for The Boardwalk at Bricktown project, Kenton Tsoodle, president and CEO of The Alliance for Economic Development of Oklahoma City, said Wednesday.

“It’s a slow process,” Tsoodle said. “Everyone’s reporting things are moving along.”

Matteson Capital in Newport Beach, California, plans to build hundreds of apartments, a hotel, multiple commercial spaces, public parking and the 1,907-foot skyscraper on three-quarters of one city block at Reno and Oklahoma avenues.

The project site currently is surface parking controlled by developer Randy Hogan.

The land transaction has not closed yet, and financing for the first phase of the $1.6 billion development involves various pieces and an “army of lawyers,” Tsoodle said.

“There’s no holdup on the city’s side,” he said.

The Oklahoma City Council in June lifted the height restriction included in the original development plan to allow construction of the proposed 1,907-foot Legends Tower in phase II of the project. It would be 131 feet taller than the One World Trade Center in New York City and the fifth tallest building in the world.

Scot Matteson, president and CEO of Matteson Capital – who could not be reached for an update this week – said in March he expected grading the entire site and putting in infrastructure would begin by late summer, followed by building underground parking and a lagoon.

Plans for phase I include a 480-key Dream Hotel by Hyatt and 85 residential serviced condominiums in the Dream Tower, plus two residential towers with 1,776 apartments ranging from affordable workforce units to luxury options.

Also included is more than 110,000 square feet of space designated for commercial use, food and beverage, and a workforce development center for the community at the street and second levels.

Even with the city’s approval to build the Legends Tower to 1,907 feet, the market ultimately will determine its height, Matteson and Hogan have said.

In a Dec. 27 interview, Matteson said the tallest tower would be the last piece of the multi-year development to be built after the market first absorbed the apartments in the other towers. He said he expected to obtain approval from the Federal Aviation Administration for the approved height.

The top floors of the skyscraper would have a public observatory, restaurant and bar where visitors could enjoy sweeping views of the city. Matteson said he envisioned it coming online with the opening of the new downtown arena.

At that time, the city had committed to complete the new state-of-the-art arena no later than summer 2029 but now it is attempting to move that up to June 2028 at the request of the Oklahoma City Thunder, City Manager Craig Freeman said.

What? No mention of FAA approval? :)

Matteson starts sounding like a Scooby-Doo villain after awhile. "And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!"

I have my doubts that this development will take off. I hope I am wrong, however Matteson seems he is trying to pull the wool over our citizen's eyes. Hope the citizen's are not easily deceived? I am questioning the legit of this development.

I’m in DC now and someone from Philly just said, isn’t OKC getting the tallest tower? I had to warn them not to hold their breath. I’m not sure the publicity—even though the tower won’t happen—is a bad thing though.

Our neighbor to the south has built its entire rep as a state on (often false) claims that everything is bigger and better there. Oklahoma's brand has always been modesty and even insecurity to the point of self-loathing. It might not be the worst thing in the world for OKC to gain notoriety for aspirational "big" stuff.

Our neighbor to the south has built its entire rep as a state on (often false) claims that everything is bigger and better there. Oklahoma's brand has always been modesty and even insecurity to the point of self-loathing. It might not be the worst thing in the world for OKC to gain notoriety for aspirational "big" stuff. Maybe it is time for Oklahoma to not be so insecure and not have self-loathing pity parties. Oklahoma and OKC both, have the potential to be the best version as a State and city. It will require self reflection and the residents will ultimately decide their trajectory moving forward!

I’m in DC now and someone from Philly just said, isn’t OKC getting the tallest tower? I had to warn them not to hold their breath. I’m not sure the publicity—even though the tower won’t happen—is a bad thing though.

Agree, the publicity isn't a bad thing. IMO this will draw more attention to the OKC housing market.

If Phase I gets built, that's a huge boost--a 480 room key Dream Hotel by Hyatt (No TIF funds) and 85 residential serviced condominiums in the Dream Tower, plus two residential towers with 1,776 apartments ranging from affordable workforce units to luxury options.

OKC would have a 605 room Omni Luxury Hotel and a 480 room key Hyatt through the Dream Development totaling 1,085 luxury rooms downtown.

This would make OKC attractive to securing more conventions for our city.

Maybe it is time for Oklahoma to not be so insecure and not have self-loathing pity parties. Oklahoma and OKC both, have the potential to be the best version as a State and city. It will require self reflection and the residents will ultimately decide their trajectory moving forward!
OKC residents have been actively deciding that new and improved trajectory since 1993 when the first MAPS was passed. This city has been reinventing and reinvesting in itself very heavily and very consistently ever since, and continues to do so. What exactly are you going on about?

Agree, the publicity isn't a bad thing. IMO this will draw more attention to the OKC housing market.

If Phase I gets built, that's a huge boost--a 480 room key Dream Hotel by Hyatt (No TIF funds) and 85 residential serviced condominiums in the Dream Tower, plus two residential towers with 1,776 apartments ranging from affordable workforce units to luxury options. I just hope this is not just a "publicity stunt" on Mattson's part. It is perplexing as to what his motive is behind this proposed development??

I’m in DC now and someone from Philly just said, isn’t OKC getting the tallest tower? I had to warn them not to hold their breath. I’m not sure the publicity—even though the tower won’t happen—is a bad thing though.

I was in Paris last week and met a guy from Australia whose first response when I said I was from OKC was "you all are getting the biggest tower in the world, right?". It's amazing how widespread their publicity stunt was.

The publicity is fine.

But I suppose I am in the minority when I write that I absolutely do not want this mega-tall tower to be built. It's not because I think OKC "doesn't deserve it" or "doesn't dream big." It's because it will look absolutely ridiculous on the skyline, make the non-Devon rest of the skyline look puny and ruin the urban housing market.

Phase 1 of this development is really enough. It's ambitious but manageable, complementary to the rest of the urban area and impressive on a scale that makes sense.

I do think the very tall tower is a publicity stunt. It worked. It got OKC on some people's lips (the vast, vast majority of the world is completely unaware) but let's leave it there. Build the first phase and move on.

The publicity is fine.

But I suppose I am in the minority when I write that I absolutely do not want this mega-tall tower to be built. It's not because I think OKC "doesn't deserve it" or "doesn't dream big." It's because it will look absolutely ridiculous on the skyline, make the non-Devon rest of the skyline look puny and ruin the urban housing market.

Phase 1 of this development is really enough. It's ambitious but manageable, complementary to the rest of the urban area and impressive on a scale that makes sense.

I do think the very tall tower is a publicity stunt. It worked. It got OKC on some people's lips (the vast, vast majority of the world is completely unaware) but let's leave it there. Build the first phase and move on.

I agree with just about everything you say here.

As for the "Legends" tower, I wouldn't mind something that is like half the proposed height.

and esp if they could move it closer or into the rest of the CBD. Wouldn't it be wonderful if Legends was on the new arena site.

anyway - waiting like everyone to see how this pans out; I'm optimistic.

I'd like to see the Legends tower twice as tall as proposed lol

For the record I don't think anything from this will be built.

I agree with just about everything you say here.

As for the "Legends" tower, I wouldn't mind something that is like half the proposed height.

Or 1/3

I'd like to see the Legends tower twice as tall as proposed lol

For the record I don't think anything from this will be built.

Why are you limiting us when we deserve something three times taller?

Why are you limiting us when we deserve something three times taller?

Why stop there?

Space Elevator.

Somewhere around 36,000 kilometers tall. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/space-elevators-are-less-sci-fi-than-you-think/

Why are you limiting us when we deserve something three times taller?

Lets build a 1776 meter tower. Lets finally adopt scientific units of measurement in style. :)

That would be 5826.772 feet which is probably beyond the limits of engineering, but we can do it!

Why not just build the Trantor Starbridge from Foundations?? Go big or go home. We DESERVE that!! :rolleyes:

Forget about a supertall, everybody is doing that these days. They should go superdeep instead. I'm talking 1,907' straight down into the ground.

Forget about a supertall, everybody is doing that these days. They should go superdeep instead. I'm talking 1,907' straight down into the ground.

I can't imagine how many billions that would cost.

but imagine how safe it would be from tornados!

Forget about a supertall, everybody is doing that these days. They should go superdeep instead. I'm talking 1,907' straight down into the ground.

Now this is future thinking! I love it!

Why stop there?

Space Elevator.

Somewhere around 36,000 kilometers tall. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/space-elevators-are-less-sci-fi-than-you-think/

Imagine that!

Lets build a 1776 meter tower. Lets finally adopt scientific units of measurement in style. :)

That would be 5826.772 feet which is probably beyond the limits of engineering, but we can do it!


No no no no. 1776 yards. We beat the British in 1776, no need to follow them to the system they switched to.

I can't imagine how many billions that would cost.

let us not talk about what we can’t imagine but what we can imagine…we deserve it! Imagine that!

Have been at a conference of primarily real estate professionals this week and when I meet someone new and tell them I'm from Oklahoma almost invariably the first question I'm asked (unless it's someone from Seattle that wants to talk Thunder politics) is about the tower. They've almost all been disappointed at my (correct) cynicism but it is wild how many people know about it and that it's the first topic of conversation about OKC, at least among a group of people predisposed to know and care about it.

it's really anybody - everyone just about knows about this project. And 'surprisingly', most I've encountered are impressed/interested in it being built.

Still crickets.

No land sale, no permits of any kind filed, no movement or news whatsoever.

Cricket wireless has a better chance of building something here than any of these towers

This is new: https://mattesoncapital.com/

Looks like he finally has a development team put together.

This is new: https://mattesoncapital.com/

Looks like he finally has a development team put together.

That is a generic site with no details. And all the projects he lists under Matteson Capital we've already debunked ad nauseam and were not done by this group if they were done at all.

If you look up all the people he lists they are all self-employed or working for some other company or consultants.

Also, he's using the skyline of Oslo, Norway for some reason (likely just pulled off the internet). No company address is listed as Matteson is probably still working out of his apartment.


This sort of thing makes me feel less confident, not more.

I wouldn't place a bet in favor of anything being built here from Matteson.

Hope I'm wrong of course.

We know projects like this can:

1) have hang-ups that cause unforeseen delays
2) take years of planning and architecture and engineering work
3) involve multiple, multiple, multiple layers of financing

So sure, a self-imposed deadline may be missed. Who cares? There literally could be small details that still have to be ironed out, that he thought would be ironed out by now.

I'm not saying it is a guarantee this project happens, by any means. Just saying that these types of projects, in other cities, have the same issues and take sometimes even longer. Once you get into 10 figure projects, the amount of detail and nuance involved is beyond the minds of people who haven't been involved with them.

Again, not saying it will or won't happen. But it isn't dead because it hasn't happened yet, especially given the flux in interest rates and inflation costs (prices for goods and services aren't going down, after all).

I'm guessing this project gets dragged out indefinitely until we get a recession at which point they officially pull the plug due to "economic feasibility"

We know projects like this can:

1) have hang-ups that cause unforeseen delays
2) take years of planning and architecture and engineering work
3) involve multiple, multiple, multiple layers of financing

So sure, a self-imposed deadline may be missed. Who cares? There literally could be small details that still have to be ironed out, that he thought would be ironed out by now.

I'm not saying it is a guarantee this project happens, by any means. Just saying that these types of projects, in other cities, have the same issues and take sometimes even longer.

This is the point. There is NO other project like this in any other city. The projects like this of this size don't get drawn out because there are no other cities in the western hemisphere with projects of this size. Zero. The economics don't make sense, even in cities with far, far more money that are far larger. No New York, Montreal, LA, Chicago, Vancouver, Houston, Rio, Mexico City, Miami, Toronto, Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo. None.

OKC residents have been actively deciding that new and improved trajectory since 1993 when the first MAPS was passed. This city has been reinventing and reinvesting in itself very heavily and very consistently ever since, and continues to do so. What exactly are you going on about? Oklahoma and Oklahoma City can improve by attracting better quality jobs with the hopes of the city landing a few huge employers/corporate HQ's. I firmly disagree that Oklahoma City is not able to attract these types of employers, however the trajectory shows OKC has not attracted any major employers in quite some time. High incomes and additional tax payers for our city helps with added prosperity. To rely simply on sales tax is not the best business model.

Oklahoma and Oklahoma City can improve by attracting better quality jobs with the hopes of the city landing a few huge employers/corporate HQ's. I firmly disagree that Oklahoma City is not able to attract these types of employers, however the trajectory shows OKC has not attracted any major employers in quite some time. High incomes and additional tax payers for our city helps with added prosperity. To rely simply on sales tax is not the best business model.

OKC lacks a large base of highly qualified/educated employees to compete with the likes of Austin, Dallas, etc. And, our consistently low ranking of education is problematic. What we tend to sell is cheap business overhead.

Oklahoma and Oklahoma City can improve by attracting better quality jobs with the hopes of the city landing a few huge employers/corporate HQ's. I firmly disagree that Oklahoma City is not able to attract these types of employers, however the trajectory shows OKC has not attracted any major employers in quite some time. High incomes and additional tax payers for our city helps with added prosperity. To rely simply on sales tax is not the best business model.

Hello. This is a thread about the potential development called Boardwalk at Bricktown. General political philosophizing belongs elsewhere.

Reminder that there is zero office space to be included in this project, so any discussion about recruiting businesses is irrelevant.

Reminder that there is zero office space to be included in this project, so any discussion about recruiting businesses is irrelevant.

Pete have you ever shared the odds that 1 of these proposed towers gets built? I'm curious for your take.

Pete have you ever shared the odds that 1 of these proposed towers gets built? I'm curious for your take.

I've said all the way along I'd be very happy if we just get the Dream Hotel.

I won't lay odds, I'll just say I've yet to talk to a local developer who thinks any of this is going to happen.

Still crickets.

Here we are in November and absolutely no planning or building documents have been filed, let alone earth moving as we were first promised for summer, then delayed to fall.

He never had any intention of developing any of this. But he did create a lot of value by getting a $200M TIF approved, carte blanche on the scale of a project allowed to be developed, and an awesome location. A real developer will ultimately take this site with $200M in free money sitting there but it probably won't even begin to potentially happen until the new arena is done or close to it.

He never had any intention of developing any of this. But he did create a lot of value by getting a $200M TIF approved, carte blanche on the scale of a project allowed to be developed, and an awesome location. A real developer will ultimately take this site with $200M in free money sitting there but it probably won't even begin to potentially happen until the new arena is done or close to it.

that is not just a forever existing tif grant ...

He never had any intention of developing any of this. But he did create a lot of value by getting a $200M TIF approved, carte blanche on the scale of a project allowed to be developed, and an awesome location. A real developer will ultimately take this site with $200M in free money sitting there but it probably won't even begin to potentially happen until the new arena is done or close to it.

That's not how it works at all...

that is not just a forever existing tif grant ...

That's not how it works at all...
Thank you.

Update:

Airport officials say proposed OKC skyscraper, tallest in the US, could endanger flights

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/downtown/2024/11/20/proposed-okc-skyscraper-construction-delayed-as-airports-raise-concern/76140729007/

"Matteson, who had hoped to start construction in October, told The Oklahoman work is delayed until sometime in 2025. He said while he was aware of the concerns voiced by Mulder, he wasn’t wanting to respond until comments are provided to him by the FAA. "

"When is construction supposed to start?"

"Eh, sometime in 2025."

Update:

Airport officials say proposed OKC skyscraper, tallest in the US, could endanger flights

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/business/downtown/2024/11/20/proposed-okc-skyscraper-construction-delayed-as-airports-raise-concern/76140729007/

"Matteson, who had hoped to start construction in October, told The Oklahoman work is delayed until sometime in 2025. He said while he was aware of the concerns voiced by Mulder, he wasn’t wanting to respond until comments are provided to him by the FAA. "

I don't have access to the article, but I wouldn't be surprised if those comments were taken out of context. There is always a risk, that's why the FAA reviews things. Doesn't they wouldn't approve.

Once again Matteson will just use this as an excuse on why the other towers are delayed which are already approved.