Internet being negative? Nah, that can't be true.

Yeah. I wouldn't worry about it until there's an AI generated YouTube video recapping a TikTok reaction video to the orginal IG posts.

Beyond the fact that it's absurd to care about social media chatter, the uncool cities of the sunbelt are the current and future growth centers of the U.S.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/07/12/u-haul-bricktown-okc-to-keep-historic-aluminum-warehouse/74317170007/

Looks to break in October.

No permits of any kind have been filed and a project of this size will take 6+ months of back-and-forth before they are issued a building permit.

No permits of any kind have been filed and a project of this size will take 6+ months of back-and-forth before they are issued a building permit.

I wonder why. Is there anything preventing them from at least filing for a building permit?

I wonder why. Is there anything preventing them from at least filing for a building permit?

I mean it’s a investment scam and filing permits would actually cost money. I’ ll believe theis project is real after dirt work and a few expensive tower cranes are placed.

An architect told me that the cost for the plans alone would be over $1 million.

I wonder why. Is there anything preventing them from at least filing for a building permit?

VERY expensive design work.

I mean it’s a investment scam and filing permits would actually cost money. I’ ll believe theis project is real after dirt work and a few expensive tower cranes are placed.

Do you have any proof that it's a scam or is this just your opinion?

They are clearly trying to get investors to buy into the shorter towers by selling this grand vision that includes the legend tower. They seem to be struggling to get even the first tower into the end zone when it comes to investment.

Do you have any proof that it's a scam or is this just your opinion?

Investment scams aren’t illegal. We live in a capitalist country. Just like time shares, for profit universities,amway or that ampitheatre project. Nothing this guy has said has been backed up and he doesn’t have much veracity. But I’m sure he would accept a modest sum of non refundable cash from me to put down on my “soon to exist” condo.
Think about it do you have any proof that it isn’t ? This seems to be his M.O.

Investment scams aren’t illegal. We live in a capitalist country. Just like time shares, for profit universities,amway or that ampitheatre project. Nothing this guy has said has been backed up and he doesn’t have much veracity. But I’m sure he would accept a modest sum of non refundable cash from me to put down on my “soon to exist” condo.
Think about it do you have any proof that it isn’t ? This seems to be his M.O.

Your logic has conspiracy theorist written all over it. Let’s not act like this guy hasn’t come through on his projects. Can anyone show me a history of failed projects in the past? Otherwise I see no reason to believe there’s any foul play. Could he be overly ambitious? Sure, but I would just go the opposite direction with this and assume the worst.

Your logic has conspiracy theorist written all over it. Let’s not act like this guy hasn’t come through on his projects. Can anyone show me a history of failed projects in the past? Otherwise I see no reason to believe there’s any foul play. Could he be overly ambitious? Sure, but I would just go the opposite direction with this and assume the worst.
I recall Pete reported about his research on Mattison starting in the 40s and higher posts up thread. Not encouraging, IMO

I recall Pete reported about his research on Mattison starting in the 40s and higher posts up thread. Not encouraging, IMO

Ah I didn’t see that. That is definitely discouraging and has recalibrated my expectations. I hope he can pull it off, but I guess time will tell. I’ll repost the link in case anyone else missed it.

https://therealdeal.com/national/2024/01/28/who-is-real-estate-developer-scot-matteson/

Ah I didn’t see that. That is definitely discouraging and has recalibrated my expectations. I hope he can pull it off, but I guess time will tell. I’ll repost the link in case anyone else missed it.

https://therealdeal.com/national/2024/01/28/who-is-real-estate-developer-scot-matteson/

It's a reminder to keep the optimism in check. That and Pete reminding us that the building permit process hasn't even started yet.

It's a reminder to keep the optimism in check. That and Pete reminding us that the building permit process hasn't even started yet.

Keep the optimism in check? I wouldn’t go that far.

Your logic has conspiracy theorist written all over it. Let’s not act like this guy hasn’t come through on his projects. Can anyone show me a history of failed projects in the past? Otherwise I see no reason to believe there’s any foul play. Could he be overly ambitious? Sure, but I would just go the opposite direction with this and assume the worst.

Dude have you followed this thread at all? Can you show me a history of completed projects?

Dude have you followed this thread at all? Can you show me a history of completed projects?

Not all 83 pages of it. Last I heard he was responsible for the buildings in San Diego and Miami, but like I said I wasn’t aware of the article way the hell back in page 52. There just seems to be an eagerness to be skeptical and negative on these threads. I originally looked to these threads to get excited about potential developments and stay in the loop, but apparently I came to the wrong place.

Your logic has conspiracy theorist written all over it. Let’s not act like this guy hasn’t come through on his projects. Can anyone show me a history of failed projects in the past? Otherwise I see no reason to believe there’s any foul play. Could he be overly ambitious? Sure, but I would just go the opposite direction with this and assume the worst.

Conspiracy theorist? I wish I was that interesting but if you think Amway or alpha masculinity seminars are a good investment I have a new concept for your to pour your money into. It’s called multi level marketing. It’s a “great way to make money” wink wink. You can do it all online contact me for details and have your startup capital on hand.

We're in July, last year ground was to be broken in June 2024.

Wait and see, just don't bet on it.

Did you hear the one about 3 conspiracy theorists walking into a bar?

First of all, that can't be a coincidence.

Obviously, Mattison, the city along with the FAA have been working on the building permits behind closed doors. :)

Looks like the status changed!
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=614791391&row=0

Looks like the status changed!
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/searchAction.jsp?action=displayOECase&oeCaseID=614791391&row=0

I'll be honest, the FAA approval seems like a bigger deal than I initially thought. I kind of thought FAA would rubberstamp any tall building that is in downtown. That's not really an excuse for the shorter towers though.

I'll be honest, the FAA approval seems like a bigger deal than I initially thought. I kind of thought FAA would rubberstamp any tall building that is in downtown.

This is only for the supertall and the associated crane.

You know, the building that wouldn't even start for several years, best case.

This is only for the supertall and the associated crane.

You know, the building that wouldn't even start for several years, best case.

Yeah, I did add an extra comment how it wasn't really an excuse for the shorter buildings.

Nothing really new here, but a recent article from the Orange County (California) Business Journal:

********

OC Firms Illuminate Oklahoma City Skyscraper (https://www.ocbj.com/oc-homepage/oc-firms-illuminate-oklahoma-city-skyscraper/)
By Yuika Yoshida
August 26, 2024

Newport Beach developer Scot Matteson has enlisted the help of Orange County’s biggest architectural firm, Orange-based AO, for the $1.6 billion project called Legends Tower in Oklahoma City.

Skepticism abounds for a 1,907-foot, 134-story building that would go up in an area known as “Tornado Alley.”

AO Managing Partner Rob Budetti said he has “no apprehensions” about constructing such a project, comparing the Legends Tower to other tall structures like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

“Some of the tallest buildings in the world are in areas with big windstorms or typhoons,” Budetti told the Business Journal.

“It’s really a math problem for the structural engineer to calculate all these forces and how to resist them.”

Despite the skeptics, who also point to the amount of land available, the Oklahoma City County approved the zoning proposal on June 4, removing the height restriction on the four-acre development site.

“We’re excited because it’s something a little different for us and has put us in a different light nationally,” Budetti said.

The developers say they have the funding and construction is set to begin this fall.

Biggest in OC

AO again ranks No. 1 on the Business Journal’s list of top architectural firms with $77.1 million in annual OC billings, down 8% year-over-year.

Founded by Jack Selman in 1974, its 50th anniversary led to the City of Orange making March 27 as “AO Day.”

The firm in the past year designed the $12 million renovation of the Hotel Zessa in Santa Ana, which was finished in March. It has several projects under construction locally, including mixed-use apartment complex The Row at Red Hill in Santa Ana and multifamily units at retail center The Square Cypress.

The design of the Oklahoma City project, named Boardwalk at Bricktown, would be AO’s largest project yet.

Initial versions of the Oklahoma City design didn’t include the high-rise building at first.

Matteson ended up reassigning the project to AO less than a year ago “because he wasn’t happy with the design direction of the original architect,” according to Budetti.

Matteson chose Bricktown as the location for his ambitious project, saying that the city’s experiencing “a significant period of high growth and transformation, making it well-positioned for large-scale projects” like his.

“Scot has been good at finding where the next ‘it’ place will be,” Budetti said. “He’s seeing where it’s going to be four or five years from now.”

Currently, “Oklahoma City is one of the top three fastest-growing cities in the U.S.,” Matteson told the Business Journal earlier this year. “A lot of companies are relocating there because its cost of living is better.”

Moreover, the area is “very pro-business” and “friendly towards development,” Matteson added.

Matteson Capital, an affiliate of Newport Beach’s Centurion Partners, is one of three development partners in the project, along with Thinkbox and Legends Capital Management, according to Oklahoma City filings. Funding for the project has been lined up, according to the Oklahoman newspaper.

Centurion has been part of other high-rise developments, including a tower in San Diego, and has also owned low-rise projects in Orange County.

Centurion is also involved in the Miami Worldcenter, which is currently being unveiled in phrases.

That $6 billion development—which spans 27 acres in an older, run-down business district in Miami—includes over 300,000 square feet of retail, over 2,100 residential units and three office towers. The entire project, which Centurion has partially built and has portioned off to other developers, totals about 17 million square feet.

OKC Live

Budetti envisions Boardwalk at Bricktown as the next L.A. Live.

Last year, the city approved a $900 million basketball arena downtown for National Basketball Association team Oklahoma City Thunder. The arena will reportedly be built across the street from where Boardwalk’s site is. Also nearby is the Oklahoma City Convention Center, which was built in 2021 for $288 million.

City officials are further investing in the area with another $30 million going towards a new soccer stadium near Bricktown that will serve as the future home for Energy FC, increasing the original budget from $41 million to $71 million and the number of seats from 8,000 to 10,000.

Boardwalk at Bricktown consists of three smaller towers at the base, all projected to stand at 345 feet, which will start construction this fall and be completed in 2026.

Construction on the Legends Tower is slated to begin after the first phase is finished. The second phase would take around three years to complete, according to AO officials.

The four-building project encompasses approximately 5 million square feet of hotel, residential, retail and commercial spaces. Total, there will be 1,776 residential units and over 110,000 square feet reserved for retail.

Designs indicate there will be a 352-room Hyatt hotel with 99 serviced condominiums, as well as 904 luxury residences, in the 126-story Legends Tower, the centerpiece of the project.

The top floors of the tower will hold a public observatory, sky restaurant and bar.

Oklahoma’s extreme weather conditions make it an unlikely place to build a 1,907-foot skyscraper. However, a few blocks away from the Boardwalk site is the 850-foot, 50-story Devon Tower.

Wind loads, including tornado loads, would be established via wind tunnel testing, taking into account the local wind climate and the geometry and height of the tower, according to a June article in the Engineering News Record magazine.

One of the engineering firms involved in the development is New York-based Thornton Tomasetti, which has completed some of the tallest buildings in the world, including Shanghai Tower and Taipei 101. Thornton Tomasetti has worked on three of the 10 tallest towers in the U.S., officials said.

“Everybody we’re bringing on has specific experience in super tall buildings,” Budetti said.
If built, the Legends Tower would replace the One World Trade Center as the tallest building in the U.S.

“This is the moment we’ve all been waiting for … to see how tall we can get,” Councilwoman Nikki Nice said during the city council meeting ahead of voting.

The lifted height restriction was approved in an 8-1 vote, with one in opposition due to concerns surrounding the credibility of the nonprofit organization that the developer said they’re partnering with to address homelessness in the area.

Arizona-based nonprofit Aspiring Anew Generation will provide 132 residential units for workforce housing, financial advisor Joanne Carras said at an Aug. 1 city council meeting.

“It’s always been part of our design from day one to have affordable workforce housing,” Budetti said.

Getting the height restriction removed “wasn’t a far stretch” for the city as there is no height limit imposed on the rest of downtown across the street from Bricktown, Budetti said.

The city did take issue with the project’s use of LED displays and signage, which will be resubmitted separately to the planning commission.

Nothing really new here, but a recent article from the Orange County (California) Business Journal:

********

OC Firms Illuminate Oklahoma City Skyscraper (https://www.ocbj.com/oc-homepage/oc-firms-illuminate-oklahoma-city-skyscraper/)
By Yuika Yoshida
August 26, 2024

Newport Beach developer Scot Matteson has enlisted the help of Orange County’s biggest architectural firm, Orange-based AO, for the $1.6 billion project called Legends Tower in Oklahoma City.

Skepticism abounds for a 1,907-foot, 134-story building that would go up in an area known as “Tornado Alley.”

AO Managing Partner Rob Budetti said he has “no apprehensions” about constructing such a project, comparing the Legends Tower to other tall structures like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

“Some of the tallest buildings in the world are in areas with big windstorms or typhoons,” Budetti told the Business Journal.

“It’s really a math problem for the structural engineer to calculate all these forces and how to resist them.”

Despite the skeptics, who also point to the amount of land available, the Oklahoma City County approved the zoning proposal on June 4, removing the height restriction on the four-acre development site.

“We’re excited because it’s something a little different for us and has put us in a different light nationally,” Budetti said.

The developers say they have the funding and construction is set to begin this fall.

Biggest in OC

....

Boardwalk at Bricktown consists of three smaller towers at the base, all projected to stand at 345 feet, which will start construction this fall and be completed in 2026.

Construction on the Legends Tower is slated to begin after the first phase is finished. The second phase would take around three years to complete, according to AO officials.

....


Does reference to the "Legends Tower project" refer just to the tower, or to all four towers?

I have absolutely no reference point - is $1.6BB sufficient for all four towers? In other words, saying that they have the funding (presumably the $1.6BB?), does that mean that they have funding for both the smaller towers AND the supertall?

Is it actually plausible that this Legends Tower is actually built? I have kinda thought about the getting the variances and FAA approval as a cheaper alternative to general advertising and marketing costs. Like a cheap alternative to getting national / worldwide press.

ETA: Also, kinda stinks that even if they build the Supertall, it wouldn't be in time for the Olympics. But it would still be a sight to see the construction 2/3s done (if on schedule).

^

Yes, the $1.6 billion budget is for all four buildings, including Legends Tower.

I've posted before that this doesn't seem to be nearly enough money to complete this project.

I also remember seeing quotes that they would build the towers in "phases based on demand". So that doesn't even lineup with the extremely ambitious schedule of finishing 3 towers all at the same time. Imagine starting construction on a 904 room supertall when the three towers at its base aren't even near capacity.

Unless there is a/some billionaire investors involved, I don't believe any of it.

^

Yes, the $1.6 billion budget is for all four buildings, including Legends Tower.

I've posted before that this doesn't seem to be nearly enough money to complete this project.

Whoops, I had seen lots of your posts regarding the unrealistic timeline, but I had missed your comments in March regarding the costs.
Reference for anyone else interested: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46342&p=1261392#post1261392

Though it looks like some of the engineers, etc. have experience building supertalls, etc. based on a quick perusal of their website, the new architects' tallest building appears to come in at a whopping.....six stories. Not sure that all of their completed projects put together would equal 134 floors.

As I've said, I would be thrilled to just get a nice hotel out of this.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an all-or-nothing proposition.

Hopefully, the Olympics in 2028 will be a catalyst.

As I've said, I would be thrilled to just get a nice hotel out of this.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an all-or-nothing proposition.

Hopefully, the Olympics in 2028 will be a catalyst.

I would be absolutely ecstatic with a nice hotel at this point.

I recall that the original non-supertall version of the project was set at middle $7XX million, including the $200M TIF from the city. So this would indicate the supertall would be about $900 million. While that may not add up for some, it does appear to work esp since the supertall would be built atop the already built 9 floor podium.

Yes, I'm glass half full and wanting this - but I also do want to call out that we didn't have any criticism on the original $740 million (or whatever it was) proposal back before the supertall was added. Perhaps $900 million might be enough for adding a skinny 125 tower to the podium; idk. We're not talking about a Devon Tower.

Anyway - they do seem to be moving through the process, aside from the building permits. But could they not start site work without the building permits? (Pete question).

They can start site work without building permits but since the applications have yet to be filed, and because something this complex would take the better part of a year to fully process, it doesn't make sense to tear up a flat parking lot when they haven't even submitted plans.

Therefore, the claim they are going to start work this fall seems far-fetched.

It's always funny when people on the coasts worry about Oklahoma tornadoes (a) without recognizing that OKC and Tulsa have had tall buildings for a century without problems, and (b) that California earthquakes are at least as big of, if not a bigger, concern for tall buildings. I know it's just a play on stereotypes, but it's so silly as a regular talking point.

The always present mention of Oklahoma tornadoes being a special problem just for this tower and somehow not the high rises we already have is pretty annoying.

I recall that the original non-supertall version of the project was set at middle $7XX million, including the $200M TIF from the city. So this would indicate the supertall would be about $900 million. While that may not add up for some, it does appear to work esp since the supertall would be built atop the already built 9 floor podium.

Yes, I'm glass half full and wanting this - but I also do want to call out that we didn't have any criticism on the original $740 million (or whatever it was) proposal back before the supertall was added. Perhaps $900 million might be enough for adding a skinny 125 tower to the podium; idk. We're not talking about a Devon Tower.

Anyway - they do seem to be moving through the process, aside from the building permits. But could they not start site work without the building permits? (Pete question).

While I would like to say that I'd want this to become a reality just to silence the naysayers, I don't think this would be economically feasible. I'll give an example, albeit the fact that the land use is way more expensive in the instance of our current example, but also take into consideration the costs of construction and height when planning floors.

19101
The Central Park Tower took $3 Billion to build 131 floors. Now of course, land to overlook Central Park is not cheap, but it's also a fairly stark estimate when you consider that the total build height is only 1500 feet.

Now considering the relatively cheap cost of land, we can understand that the cost could be much cheaper to build something like that in OKC. But doing the math for a total of 134 floors, only three more floors than the mentioned tower but also encompassing an additional 200 feet for residency, you'd have to take into account that some of this development will be built with the story plan of an office building. And I do understand that an additional 157 feet for the antenna isn't going to be as costly, but the math ain't mathing (as my generation would say). Somewhere on this tower, they're going to have a financial impasse. And unless the hotel chains are willing to put in their funds to establish a permanent residency for some of these floors (I don't really see that happening), this won't get built to specs.

...this won't get built to specs.

Since we have seen no specs I'm not sure what we are holding them to. Floor count, height pronouncement, and renderings aren't specs, and specs can be fluid anyway. I've been involved in many, many high profile building projects all over the world and I don't think any of them were static and most could either choose to have cost overruns or to value engineer. I was calling and bidding (according to specs) and offering component specification language on the Burj Khalifa project when SOM Chicago was designing it and saw iterations and talked value engineering. Almost all projects value engineered, and then most had overruns anyway.

If this gets built, I doubt it will live up to many people's dreams (at least those that tend to frequent this and similar talk sites) and there is always plenty for the public to complain about. Would you be disappointed in a 1,500 ft tower after dreaming about a 1907 version. What if the color of the glass facade doesn't match your expectation. If the marble in the lobby isn't the color you like? If the art it incorporates isn't the style you prefer? If the apartments are smaller than you want or the rent too high? If the hotel is on the top and not the bottom? If the elevator is too slow? If there isn't a space for a public observation room? If, if, if. It will never match dreams. Satisfaction is often more about the bar that is set than the actual accomplishment. That said, I believe most OKCitians will be excited and proud to see anything of major scale built here whether it is 50 stories or 150 stories.

I think it would be a success if just one of the small towers actually gets built (assuming it has good interaction with the surrounding environment), but I am not even holding my breath on that happening.

It's always funny when people on the coasts worry about Oklahoma tornadoes (a) without recognizing that OKC and Tulsa have had tall buildings for a century without problems, and (b) that California earthquakes are at least as big of, if not a bigger, concern for tall buildings. I know it's just a play on stereotypes, but it's so silly as a regular talking point.

Not to mention hurricanes for Miami, Houston and New Orleans

While I would like to say that I'd want this to become a reality just to silence the naysayers, I don't think this would be economically feasible. I'll give an example, albeit the fact that the land use is way more expensive in the instance of our current example, but also take into consideration the costs of construction and height when planning floors.

19101
The Central Park Tower took $3 Billion to build 131 floors. Now of course, land to overlook Central Park is not cheap, but it's also a fairly stark estimate when you consider that the total build height is only 1500 feet.

Now considering the relatively cheap cost of land, we can understand that the cost could be much cheaper to build something like that in OKC. But doing the math for a total of 134 floors, only three more floors than the mentioned tower but also encompassing an additional 200 feet for residency, you'd have to take into account that some of this development will be built with the story plan of an office building. And I do understand that an additional 157 feet for the antenna isn't going to be as costly, but the math ain't mathing (as my generation would say). Somewhere on this tower, they're going to have a financial impasse. And unless the hotel chains are willing to put in their funds to establish a permanent residency for some of these floors (I don't really see that happening), this won't get built to specs.

Outside of the land, construction costs of building that in midtown Manhattan has to be at least 10x what it would cost here. I tend to agree with you that they probably will run out of money if it actually does ever even start to be built but this is a silly comparison.

Outside of the land, construction costs of building that in midtown Manhattan has to be at least 10x what it would cost here. I tend to agree with you that they probably will run out of money if it actually does ever even start to be built but this is a silly comparison.

I disagree with the comparison being silly. If anything, I went with something that's relatively in the same class of construction. A relatively skinny skyscraper with a similar amount of floors, and a realistic budget (albeit the absurd land costs that I already brought up).

Time to revisit several of the big red flags...

Matteson is saying it will be $1.6 billion for three 34-story towers, plus one at 122. That's 224 total floors in four separate structures, plus the parking, podium, commercial space, etc.

The 50-story Devon Tower plus parking and ancillary buildings cost almost $1 billion in today's dollars, and they didn't have any lending costs because they just wrote a check for everything.

Now, consider everything at the Boardwalk will be hotel or condos or apartments and each of those thousands of units will need a bathroom, a kitchen, and generally expensive finishes vs. Devon which is mostly office space that is far cheaper to build, run HVAC, and plumbing and electrical. AND, the cost of construction above 50 floors only increases the higher you go.

In even simpler terms, our new arena will cost over a billion $ and that's with free land.

In addition to all this, Devon hired a world-renowned architect who has built scores of buildings of the same size or larger. The arena architect will come from a pool of two qualified candidates who have done dozens and dozens of sports arenas. Matteson is working with a small architecture firm in Orange County that has never designed anything over 10 floors.

We also know Matteson has completely lied about the extent of his involvement in several projects, is currently living in an apartment, recently needed a GoFundMe account to pay medical bills, and has been sued for a huge amount of unpaid legal fees. And BTW, he's never done anything on his own -- only with Centurian which was disbanded almost a decade ago.


This whole project just seems completely implausible, even if you leave out the Legends Tower pipedream.

I'm hoping someone else steps in, recalibrates, keeps a deal with Dream Hotel, and we get something out of this.

Personally, this thing is DOA.....

Question on this project and its TIF: If I recall correctly, the TIF money would not go to this until the three smaller towers would be completed. So, the city would not be out any money if this project goes nowhere. But, how tethered is the assigned TIF money to this project if other projects come asking? In other words, if this project goes for years before finally coming to nothing, is that multiple years of held-up TIF funding that could have gone elsewhere? Not sure if I am making sense in trying to get my thoughts to paper, but if this project truly is nothing, it does seem to be consuming a large amount of "opportunity cost" the city could be using to fund other TIF projects.

So, nothing has changed, yet people think that because earth isn't moving on this, it's dead?

Question on this project and its TIF: If I recall correctly, the TIF money would not go to this until the three smaller towers would be completed. So, the city would not be out any money if this project goes nowhere. But, how tethered is the assigned TIF money to this project if other projects come asking? In other words, if this project goes for years before finally coming to nothing, is that multiple years of held-up TIF funding that could have gone elsewhere? Not sure if I am making sense in trying to get my thoughts to paper, but if this project truly is nothing, it does seem to be consuming a large amount of "opportunity cost" the city could be using to fund other TIF projects.

The $200 million in TIF for this project is to be entirely property tax and sales tax rebates. So, it would be self-funded and they wouldn't get anything unless they build the $736 million original project, which is effectively the 3 towers minus Legends Tower. They would get the same amount of TIF regardless of what happens with the super tall.

HOWEVER, it would also mean no increase in the property tax over the next 25 years for this property will go into the tax fund that is mainly used for public schools. 1) No way something won't be built there in the next two and a half decades; and 2) even without massive improvements, property taxes often increase dramatically over such a long period even without changes to improvements.

So, nothing has changed, yet people think that because earth isn't moving on this, it's dead?

He's already pushed the start back to 'fall' (with a completely nonsensical explanation) and still hasn't submitted a single building permit application even though on a project this size it would take the better part of a year to be issued a valid permit.

So, draw your own conclusions.

He's already pushed the start back to 'fall' (with a completely nonsensical explanation) and still hasn't submitted a single building permit application even though on a project this size it would take the better part of a year to be issued a valid permit.

So, draw your own conclusions.

It has always been fall. Look back at other articles, he has said 4th quarter 2024 in the past.

I'm not saying it will happen or not, but people on here seem to want it to fail so they can be right.

We keep circling back having the same arguments about this project. We will know in the next 90 days or so if this was just a ruse. If Matteson comes out and pushes it back to "spring of next year", then well, lol.

It's always funny when people on the coasts worry about Oklahoma tornadoes (a) without recognizing that OKC and Tulsa have had tall buildings for a century without problems, and (b) that California earthquakes are at least as big of, if not a bigger, concern for tall buildings. I know it's just a play on stereotypes, but it's so silly as a regular talking point.

Resilient Oklahomans just moving the teepees out of the way since 1889. Best not start building anything taller or more permanent than that I fear.

Personally, this thing is DOA.....

No need to make it personal.

Time to revisit several of the big red flags...

Matteson is saying it will be $1.6 billion for three 34-story towers, plus one at 122. That's 224 total floors in four separate structures, plus the parking, podium, commercial space, etc.

The 50-story Devon Tower plus parking and ancillary buildings cost almost $1 billion in today's dollars, and they didn't have any lending costs because they just wrote a check for everything.

Now, consider everything at the Boardwalk will be hotel or condos or apartments and each of those thousands of units will need a bathroom, a kitchen, and generally expensive finishes vs. Devon which is mostly office space that is far cheaper to build, run HVAC, and plumbing and electrical. AND, the cost of construction above 50 floors only increases the higher you go.

In even simpler terms, our new arena will cost over a billion $ and that's with free land.

In addition to all this, Devon hired a world-renowned architect who has built scores of buildings of the same size or larger. The arena architect will come from a pool of two qualified candidates who have done dozens and dozens of sports arenas. Matteson is working with a small architecture firm in Orange County that has never designed anything over 10 floors.

We also know Matteson has completely lied about the extent of his involvement in several projects, is currently living in an apartment, recently needed a GoFundMe account to pay medical bills, and has been sued for a huge amount of unpaid legal fees. And BTW, he's never done anything on his own -- only with Centurian which was disbanded almost a decade ago.


This whole project just seems completely implausible, even if you leave out the Legends Tower pipedream.

I'm hoping someone else steps in, recalibrates, keeps a deal with Dream Hotel, and we get something out of this.

But Pete?!? I was told the FAA was going to approve this?!?

It has always been fall. Look back at other articles, he has said 4th quarter 2024 in the past.

I'm not saying it will happen or not, but people on here seem to want it to fail so they can be right.


“The goal is to start moving dirt by the end of summer, doing the grading and infrastructure on the entire four acres of land," said Scot Matteson, the developer of the Boardwalk at Bricktown project.
https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-city-okc-tallest-skyscraper-built-in-us-financing/60169138


Matteson said the start date, initially set for this summer, is delayed until this fall
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/06/05/okc-tallest-tower-us-zoning-request-approved-city-council/73976299007/

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg

I recall that the original non-supertall version of the project was set at middle $7XX million, including the $200M TIF from the city. So this would indicate the supertall would be about $900 million. While that may not add up for some, it does appear to work esp since the supertall would be built atop the already built 9 floor podium.

Yes, I'm glass half full and wanting this - but I also do want to call out that we didn't have any criticism on the original $740 million (or whatever it was) proposal back before the supertall was added. Perhaps $900 million might be enough for adding a skinny 125 tower to the podium; idk. We're not talking about a Devon Tower.
(Pete question).

No, you aren't talking about Devon, you are talking about a building that would be 1,000 feet taller than Devon. Take the Devon tower and stack a second Devon on top of it. And then add a couple of hundred feet more of tower on top of that just for giggles. Devon cost $750 million a decade ago, with inflation $900 million wouldn't pay for Devon today, not even close. This supertall tower would be FAR more complex and expensive than Devon, by multiples of cost. $900 million would only be a down payment.

No, you aren't talking about Devon, you are talking about a building that would be 1,000 feet taller than Devon. Take the Devon tower and stack a second Devon on top of it. And then add a couple of hundred feet more of tower on top of that just for giggles. Devon cost $750 million a decade ago, with inflation $900 million wouldn't pay for Devon today, not even close. This supertall tower would be FAR more complex and expensive than Devon, by multiples of cost. $900 million would only be a down payment.

All correct.

Also, Devon is an office building where the finish-out is much less expensive: mainly open space, one set of restrooms per floor, maybe one simple break room.

Legends Tower would be all hotel rooms and condos, so way, way, way more expensive to finish out because each unit needs its own HVAC, kitchen, bathroom, walls, electrical, etc., etc. And that's not even counting furniture, fixtures and equipment.

Plus, Devon just paid cash for their complex whereas Matteson will have to borrow a huge amount at relatively high interest rates.


The first three towers plus the parking and commercial space may cost well over a billion alone and the supertall would be at least $2 billion itself. There is simply no way a total budget of $1.6 billion is anywhere close to what would be needed.

No need to make it personal.

What? Not personal!?!? WE DESERVE THIS, of course it is personal!!!!

What? Not personal!?!? WE DESERVE THIS, of course it is personal!!!!

I demand to have the towers the guy with the weak resume proposed!