As I had previously pointed out, Matteson had been the lead on a proposed Quicksilver Surf Hotel in Palm Springs, which completely collapsed. He had also proposed the same type of development in about a half dozen other cities that never materialized.

So I would label this statement as categorically false, and yet another hit to Matteson's credibility:

I've followed this thread and learned a lot thanks to many contributors speaking up and sharing their knowledge about commercial real estate. It sure sounds like this tower never happens and that OKC is being set up to be another failed development in Matteson's list.

Can someone enlighten me on the "how" aspect Matteson's game? Assuming, as Pete and others have made clear, this guy isn't the success story he claims to be, how is he going to enrich himself or others from this scheme? Is it s as simple as attracting investors to throw in money and then find an excuse (low leasing numbers) to not build the tower.... profit? How does the scam work, procedurally?

^

I believe he's playing the "fake it until you make it" game.

He's trying to at least pull off the three towers and he has to raise a ton of investor money to do that, and what typically happens (like at Sunset Amphitheater), they get a friendly architecture firm to draw up some sexy renderings with a promise to use them on the project, goes before a municipality and tries to get public subsidies, recruits a few investors and immediately spends their money on more renderings, PR, and marketing, then hope enough investment money flows in to keep things moving forward.

I was told that on a project of this magnitude, the A&E drawings alone would cost millions. And you can't file for a building permit until those are ready to go. They would have to engineer and design the entire site at the jump since there will be shared parking structures and so much crammed on a relatively small site.

At the same time, any lender is going to require that a good percentage of the investor funds are in verifiable accounts, and perhaps one building can get started but until it reaches a lease threshold, no way the rest of the loan money is provided for the next structure.

And the loans are often of the construction variety, meaning they are short term and then only when they have proper cash flow can they seek permanent financing which also pays off the construction loans.

Several people noted that in that OETA segment, Matteson said he had the "entire project" financed which had to include Legends Tower.

From the Oklahoman:



So, according to Matteson, he has raised all $1.5 billion in advance. For the tallest building in the U.S. to be built in a Bricktown Parking lot next to a Uhaul storage building.

BTW, no way $1.5 billion is going to be anywhere close to enough given the scale of this project. In today's dollars, Devon Energy Center - one 50-story building with some low-lying structures -- cost almost $900 million. So, THREE 34-story luxury buildings PLUS another 134-story tower would only cost 50% more? That's 236 total floors vs. 50.

134 stories??? That would be substantially more occupied floors than the current U.S. leader: Willis Tower at 108. 134 floors would place it second in the WORLD only to the Burj Khalifa.

All of this completely defies the smallest bit of common sense.

For clairty I'm in your camp and the super tall seems like a fantasy.
Just to play devil's advocate,

There was this nugget, "Matteson's plans are to start construction first on the apartment towers and Dream Hotel, and then to start construction of the Legends skyscraper once the apartment towers are 50% leased."

The capital is "committed", but probably can't be called until benchmarks like the above are hit.

If he says the development is completely funded, wouldn't that be detrimental to recruiting future investors? Why would they need to invest if its already fully funded?

If he says the development is completely funded, wouldn't that be detrimental to recruiting future investors? Why would they need to invest if its already fully funded?

Its the old scarcity gimmick. "Your in luck! We just had someone drop out". Its an amateur game, but there is no way in heck these towers are fully funded.

Matteson probably has LOI's from investors, but I am sure no money is being transferred until certain development benchmarks are met. But with this, its ok say the project is fully funded.

Huge story in the Oklahoma today giving an update on this project. Some information we already know, but also new information was provided as well. Noting the Planning Commission to hear the zoning change on April 11, with final approval by City Council on June 4. This is just more indication this is moving forward, good deal.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2024/03/10/okc-tallest-skyscraper-bricktown-funding-secured-developer-says/72654875007/

"If you don't think Scot Matteson can pull something like this off, then you don't know Scot Matteson."

Did I do it right? Didn't read the article but figure that's pretty close.

"If you don't think Scot Matteson can pull something like this off, then you don't know Scot Matteson."

Did I do it right? Didn't read the article but figure that's pretty close.

�� �� ��

Great, now you've made Rainey Williams mad.

^

I believe he's playing the "fake it until you make it" game.

He's trying to at least pull off the three towers and he has to raise a ton of investor money to do that, and what typically happens (like at Sunset Amphitheater), they get a friendly architecture firm to draw up some sexy renderings with a promise to use them on the project, goes before a municipality and tries to get public subsidies, recruits a few investors and immediately spends their money on more renderings, PR, and marketing, then hope enough investment money flows in to keep things moving forward.

I was told that on a project of this magnitude, the A&E drawings alone would cost millions. And you can't file for a building permit until those are ready to go. They would have to engineer and design the entire site at the jump since there will be shared parking structures and so much crammed on a relatively small site.

At the same time, any lender is going to require that a good percentage of the investor funds are in verifiable accounts, and perhaps one building can get started but until it reaches a lease threshold, no way the rest of the loan money is provided for the next structure.

And the loans are often of the construction variety, meaning they are short term and then only when they have proper cash flow can they seek permanent financing which also pays off the construction loans.

I get all of that, but this development has been in the works for years. There was always 3 residential buildings and 1 hotel tower on top of a retail podium and parking structure. The city already approved $200M TIF refund for the project. The city also voted for two stadiums to be built in the immediate vacinity - likely helping solidify any of the investment funding you're speaking of. ..

The only thing recent on this project was the announcement of Tower 3 as a supertall. Im inclined to agree that Legends Tower as a supertall is the 'fake it till you make it' piece of this; but the other 3 towers are set up to succeed in my opinion and it doesn't hurt for him to apply to the FAA and city for a variance before starting the whole thing.

I get the scrutiny and I also get the doubt, but it does seem to line up once you step back and perhaps consider if it were a different location/city but then realize that OKC has literally NOTHING like this nor planned, ever - which being first-to-market has its own appeal.

The only thing recent on this project was the announcement of Tower 3 as a supertall. Im inclined to agree that Legends Tower as a supertall is the 'fake it till you make it' piece of this;

tower 4

For clairty I'm in your camp and the super tall seems like a fantasy.
Just to play devil's advocate,

There was this nugget, "Matteson's plans are to start construction first on the apartment towers and Dream Hotel, and then to start construction of the Legends skyscraper once the apartment towers are 50% leased."

The capital is "committed", but probably can't be called until benchmarks like the above are hit.

YES - this is my thinking as well.

The project is a go for sure, it's just the supertall is the thing that's 'visionary' and as you mentioned - that investment is dependent upon 50% performance of the ~550 market rate residences in Emerald and Ruby towers (around 280 residences as a benchmark). ... which to me, seems to be set up to succeed.

tower 4

I know what you're saying Boulder, but in the original plans Legends Tower was identified as Tower 3 likely to identify it as the third residential tower, and that tower 4 is the hotel tower. Tower 3 was always intended to be last, but I think they called it tower 3 originally on purpose and not chronologically; but yes, the 4th tower 'maybe' built. :)

The project is a go for sure….

I don’t understand how anyone who has followed developments on this board for years could possibly conclude this. Far less ambitious projects from far more reputable and accomplished developers have regularly failed to come to fruition. I’d still put the chances of three towers being built as minimal. It’s far more likely nothing is built at all from this project.

I disagree, there seems to be a lot of momentum for this project, as well as support from the city. Unlike the ambitious OG&E four tower proposal, this project keeps getting scaled up, not down. But even if only two 350ft towers end up coming out of all this, that is still a good result. We are coming around 3rd base on this whole thing. We will know in about 6 months if all this talk was for real, or just a ruse.

Exactly, Im not sure what's wrong with me drankula. I mean, I keep thinking that the 3 towers appears to be a solid go yet you keep reminding me that I'm forgetting about never built OKC projects.

Yet somehow, as GWalker agrees, there's momentum with this project in that they have TIF in place, have been planning for years for the 3 towers at least, and are pursuing hard variances with the FAA and city for the 1,907 height of the supertall. Now WHY would anybody in their right mind do any of this, let alone pursue investors, if they knew about OKC's troubled past building towers. I suppose I should also temper my enthusiasm about the arena and multipurpose stadium, and Citizen must not have been quietly built.

In all seriousness, I still think this is a go. And I think Legends Tower is a go too. The bar they are setting for the 'trigger' (half of the twin towers at market rate) is quite low particularly given their rental. Yes, I'm glass half full but it all seems to line up. Just have to see if 1) the FAA approves 2) the city approves in June (why wont they?) and then 3) if site samples start taking place between now and Sept they start hard site prep ...

And even then we need to see if 1/2 of 580 market rental units can be consumed. (that's ~300 units). Am I that blind that a new market concept couldn't be consumed in OKC, particularly if I consider the growth OKC has had and even more bullish to persist? I'm certain not everyone wants (or needs) a single family home in a nice school district in OKC.

I get the scrutiny and I also get the doubt, but it does seem to line up once you step back and perhaps consider if it were a different location/city but then realize that OKC has literally NOTHING like this nor planned, ever - which being first-to-market has its own appeal.

Taking undue risks just to be “first to market” in unproven small markets doesn’t interest banks and astute investors being asked to front hundreds of millions of dollars. They don’t loan out of ego.

I hope people realize this will be done in phases. It's very important that you know that. Phase 1 (res towers and hotel) are done all over America, in cities like OKC. OKC is late to the game with residential towers.

Phase 2, which will be years away, and will likely change from 1 large supertall to a couple smaller, isn't necessary for Phase 1 to happen. I don't see why people can't realize that Phase 1 can happen without Phase 2, but not the other way around.

If demand doesn't make Phase 2 viable, they can always change it. I think Phase 1 is a damn fine project for OKC, and something we have been missing when compared to other cities.

I don't know how much it costs to get FAA approval but I bet it's a small price to pay to appear credible. Especially if it's lumped into approvals needed for other towers.

I hope people realize this will be done in phases. It's very important that you know that. Phase 1 (res towers and hotel) are done all over America, in cities like OKC. OKC is late to the game with residential towers.

Phase 2, which will be years away, and will likely change from 1 large supertall to a couple smaller, isn't necessary for Phase 1 to happen. I don't see why people can't realize that Phase 1 can happen without Phase 2, but not the other way around.

If demand doesn't make Phase 2 viable, they can always change it. I think Phase 1 is a damn fine project for OKC, and something we have been missing when compared to other cities.

Yes, that seems to be given. Phase 1 maybe separate phases also. I think the issue is that Phase 2 isn't being presented like its "Years away" that causes people to pause and think about the true status of phase 1.

I know what you're saying Boulder, but in the original plans Legends Tower was identified as Tower 3 likely to identify it as the third residential tower, and that tower 4 is the hotel tower. Tower 3 was always intended to be last, but I think they called it tower 3 originally on purpose and not chronologically; but yes, the 4th tower 'maybe' built. :)

i see now thanks ..

my mistake ..

Just saw this on x: Office vacancy rates are skyrocketing:

The latest data shows that the office vacancy rate in the US is about to hit 20% for the first time in history.

Even during at height of the pandemic, office vacancy rates did not break above 19%.

As a result, the price of office buildings is now down nearly 50% from its high.

Just last week, a Canadian pension fund just sold its 29% stake in this New York office building for $1.

The pension fund had already poured $71 million into the property and the building currently has a $220 million mortgage

Hence why this project will not have any office space, lol.

^

I believe he's playing the "fake it until you make it" game.

He's trying to at least pull off the three towers and he has to raise a ton of investor money to do that, and what typically happens (like at Sunset Amphitheater), they get a friendly architecture firm to draw up some sexy renderings with a promise to use them on the project, goes before a municipality and tries to get public subsidies, recruits a few investors and immediately spends their money on more renderings, PR, and marketing, then hope enough investment money flows in to keep things moving forward.

I was told that on a project of this magnitude, the A&E drawings alone would cost millions. And you can't file for a building permit until those are ready to go. They would have to engineer and design the entire site at the jump since there will be shared parking structures and so much crammed on a relatively small site.

At the same time, any lender is going to require that a good percentage of the investor funds are in verifiable accounts, and perhaps one building can get started but until it reaches a lease threshold, no way the rest of the loan money is provided for the next structure.

And the loans are often of the construction variety, meaning they are short term and then only when they have proper cash flow can they seek permanent financing which also pays off the construction loans.

You're 100% right. Matteson does not have a great reputation in Orange County. Just an odd bit of info but frankly goes into some of the publicity stunts is he dated Shannon Beador from Orange County Housewives so he's not afraid of having his name in the press. Frankly some of the only projects him and others he's partnered with that had good success have been the Dream Hotels and really that was just a play to get one of the big hotel brands to acquire. There's a lot of hotel developers who are doing that because they know Hilton, Hyatt, etc. will buy up brands to limit competition so you build 1, 2, 3 projects and sell the 'brand name' and these majors don't even care if the hotels cash flow they just are aiming to eliminate competition. He's got cash from that I'm sure he needs to reinvest but not to the scale of being able to do this size of a project.

The unfortunate side is that the need for 2,000 residential units and more hotel rooms is needed. Oklahoma City is one of the fastest growing major MSA's and one of the only one's not with over supply issues nationally. Dallas, Austin, Houston, etc. for example close by are all in major rent corrections due to over supply. It's cheaper to rent in Austin currently in many areas than it is in OKC or even Tulsa. OKC is building between 1,500-2,000 multifamily units a year and could likely support additional uptick to that of at least 500 to maybe even 1,000 units more a year. So big picture the number of units proposed isn't that crazy if it were being built in more realistic phases and in realistically sized towers (more like the original 3 tower proposal). Building it all at once as he claims would be disastrous short-term to dump 2,000 or less units on the market over 12 months along with other projects in the MSA. I don't see how any debt sourcing would look at this and go yeah that's a great idea to do that. I think Oklahoma deserves big thinking and bigger projects like this, but the super tall tower just doesn't make sense and this feels scammy to me especially given his track record. The advantage of going outside a market you've tried doing projects in before and live in, is you can fake acting successful a lot easier given there's been little mouth to mouth conversations within the investment communities about past projects and encounters.

The 'fully funded' is just a bunch of press BS he's pumping out - there is no way in h**l a construction lender or any type of debt fund has a signed committed construction loan for the project when it hasn't even went past rezoning yet. No chance. That would be one of the dumbest financing decisions ever made by a financial institution and regulators would be all over that if it was the case. He's likely posturing to get the rezoning approved with no questions asked because he has 'financing secured'

Maybe knows a Nigerian Prince or an Indonesian billionaire?

Maybe knows a Nigerian Prince or an Indonesian billionaire?

Knows some rich athletes apparently.

The math here doesn't come close to adding up.

Here is a project in Nashville with a 34-story hotel and 21-story office tower. The construction cost in 2019 was $540 million; adjusted for today's dollars that would be $654 million. Divide that amount by 55 floors and you get $11.8 million/floor.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/237-room-hotel-will-anchor-nashvilles-new-540-million-mixed-use-development?page=31

Closer to home, Devon spent almost a billion in adjusted dollars just for a single 50-story building with some ancillary buildings. That's $19 million per floor. Even 27-story BOK Park Plaza cost $333 million in today's dollars, or $12.3 million per floor. The Omni was over $15 million per floor.


For the Boardwalk, Matteson has stated the budget is $1.5 billion and that's for a total of (3) 34-story buildings plus 134 for Legends Tower. Divide 1.5 billion by 236 total floors and you get $6.4 million per floor. And that's in today's dollars, not including inflation by the time all this is complete in 4-5 years, at best.

So, Matteson is saying he can build for half the price of recent comparable projects and do it while constructing the tallest building in the U.S., which is significantly more expensive than any 30-story building.

Another reference point: OKC just budgeted $1 billion just for a new arena. But Matteson is going to build the tallest building in the country plus three more 34-story towers and everything else a block away for merely 50% more.


Also, every previous project he is claiming was through Centurian Partners, not him personally. We have no idea what stake he held in Centurian or what stake Centurian had in any of these completed projects. What we do know is he tried to do something on his own with Quicksilver Hotels and made a bunch of bold promises that completely collapsed. He has done absolutely nothing in his own name or in that of the newly-formed Matteson Capital; Centurian Capital seems to have dissolved.

I did find that a few years ago he was served with legal papers and was living in an apartment in Orange County. There was also the GoFundMe thing for his medical bills and that was in 2019.


Maybe he's raised a ton of money and maybe he'll be able to pull off some or all of this project. But thus far, there has been no hard evidence (i.e. not just his own claims) that would suggest he has anywhere near the wherewithal to get this done. And his budget for the Boardwalk is nowhere close to reality; rather than $1.5 billion he's going to need somewhere between $3-5 billion.

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

He said his budget is $1.5 billion which has to include all funding sources.

You have it backwards on construction costs. With residential or hotels, you have to have a nice bathroom and often a kitchen in every 1,000 SF, where office space is generally just open with few walls with shared restrooms in 20,000 to 35,000 floor plates. Hotel rooms and luxury apartments are far more expensive per square foot.

I’ll drink the Kool Aid til the glass is empty. I just almost wish there was no Kool Aid and we had detailed renderings and plans laid out for the original 4 30-story buildings. Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

I’ll drink the Kool Aid til the glass is empty. I just almost wish there was no Kool Aid and we had detailed renderings and plans laid out for the original 4 30-story buildings. Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

If the Oklahoman article was correct and they're serious about having their rezoning request heard by the Planning Commission on April 11th, they'd have had to submit their paperwork by February 29th. Those usually post online 3-7 days before the commission meets. So, they should theoretically be forthcoming.

Legends Tower has hijacked the entire development and made the whole thing unbelievable.

Totally agree.

Looking back in the thread, it actually looks like it started as 3 towers: 2 hotel towers and one residential. The idea that one or both towers would be a Dream hotel, combined with the first residential tower in decades with integrated amenities, it all seemed amazing, but also totally doable and viable at this point. Sure, Hogan had under-delivered in the past, but it sounded like an established developer was also involved, so there was at least some reason for optimism.

But not much since then has really helped to reinforce that optimism. It was all just kind of same ole, same ole promises and projections.

And then pretty much all of the latest "news" around it has taken it to the realm of unbelievable. It's like watching an Aaron Rogers interview. Starts out fine and he seems like a normal dude, and then the aliens and UFOs come out. lol.

Unfortunately, the crazy kind of undermines the optimism for the original concept. There are probably developers that thought the original plan was too ambitious to begin with. If none of this gets built, it will only reinforce that sentiment and the attention the failure would get will only be compounded because all of the attention it's gotten by a graphic showing the the second tallest building in the US. It was kind of amusing for a moment there, but it's been kind of distressing seeing him double down on it with dubious claims.

I hope Hogan has some sort of assurances and/or deadlines. I think the worst thing would be if this site sits there for 10 years tied up in all of this and doesn't get developed at all in that time.

When they got the $200 million in TIF, their proposal was two 24-floor towers with a third one to come only after the other two were complete and leased.

Then, somehow, it shot up to 3 towers of 34 stories and a 134-floor tower. All this in about a month.

When they got the $200 million in TIF, their proposal was two 24-floor towers with a third one to come only after the other two were complete and leased.

Then, somehow, it shot up to 3 towers of 34 stories and a 134-floor tower. All this in about a month.

And Matteson said he wasn't going to ask for more TIF either.

And Matteson said he wasn't going to ask for more TIF either.

The city told him there would be no more TIF, whether he asks for it or not.

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

You really are trying to do everything you can to make this seem legit. It’s a grift and the sooner you accept it the less of an impact all of this will have on you when reality eventually hits.

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

lol. Give it up dude. The sunshine pumping has to stop. It’s fine to be optimistic about something that is unlikely to happen but all of your posts on this are so over the top.

What will you do when you are wrong, and the first 3 towers do get built?

I would gladly admit I was wrong but at this point I will be shocked to see anything from this proposal developed here. Way too many red flags. Time to call it what it is until someone starts doing more than running their mouths to the press that’s more interested in advertising for this guy than asking hard questions.

I would gladly admit I was wrong but at this point I will be shocked to see anything from this proposal developed here. Way too many red flags. Time to call it what it is until someone starts doing more than running their mouths to the press that’s more interested in advertising for this guy than asking hard questions.

I think the Legends Tower is all hat and no cattle. I agree on that. But I think the first 3 towers are going to get built. There is enough demand, they will fill quickly. I don't think the supertall will happen. I've said that from the start.

I think the Legends Tower is all hat and no cattle. I agree on that. But I think the first 3 towers are going to get built. There is enough demand, they will fill quickly. I don't think the supertall will happen. I've said that from the start.

why are you so sure the other three will happen? Demand alone will not get a tower built and the guy behind the project isn’t remotely reputable based on any actual information we’ve found on him.

why are you so sure the other three will happen? Demand alone will not get a tower built and the guy behind the project isn’t remotely reputable based on any actual information we’ve found on him.

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

Only a couple of posters have called him grifter or slime ball. What Pete has done is journalism and pointing out basic flaws in the presented math.

Should we actually define what three towers should look like to call the presented towers as built? It wouldn't surprise me if 'something' gets built.

Only a couple of posters have called him grifter or slime ball. What Pete has done is journalism and pointing out basic flaws in the presented math.

Should we actually define what three towers should look like to call the presented towers as built? It wouldn't surprise me if 'something' gets built.

I agree. But I just think that calling this project out before it is even on deck isn't fully fair. If it doesn't happen, ok. But I don't know if anything so far says it is a certainty to not happen, which is what I take Umbridge with. It just seems like some want it to fail, so they can say "told you so".

I do agree with those who said the Legends Tower talk detracts from the project as a whole.

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

no one has a bias against him…we’ve all just read everything from Pete and others that wasnt sunshine pumping “journalism” then watched this guy double down by adding another 500 feet to a building that already makes no sense and are now extremely skeptical that he has the funding to pull much, if any, of this off as currently proposed.

no one has a bias against him…we’ve all just read everything from Pete and others that wasnt sunshine pumping “journalism” then watched this guy double down by adding another 500 feet to a building that already makes no sense and are now extremely skeptical that he has the funding to pull much, if any, of this off as currently proposed.

I agree that the Legends Tower talk has distracted and moved all focus from a viable project. Not sure why he did it, but he did. I am not bashing Pete, at all. Just seems that any time anyone has said anything remotely positive about Scot, people have been quick to dispute and bash it down, whereas any negative comments about him are met with resounding agreement and praise.

I am not bashing any of the journalists or those who have done research about this or the developer. Just wish that the narrative wasn't so "this is definitely not happening, no matter what anyone says". Being cautious is one thing, being so Gibraltar is another. That is all I am trying to say.

This may get built, it may not. But nothing so far has said with the certainty that some on here are saying that it won't happen.

I agree. But I just think that calling this project out before it is even on deck isn't fully fair. If it doesn't happen, ok.

It’s fully fair to make judgments based on available evidence. Matteson is asking for $200 million from the city. OKC has been harmed numerous times by buying into developers’ pitches who lack credibility. I’d say it’s a dereliction of duty as citizens not to be critical. Hardly anyone is judging Matteson personally. There’s just little evidence suggesting any—much less all—of these towers are likely to actually get built as advertised.

It’s fully fair to make judgments based on available evidence. Matteson is asking for $200 million from the city. OKC has been harmed numerous times by buying into developers’ pitches who lack credibility. I’d say it’s a dereliction of duty as citizens not to be critical. Hardly anyone is judging Matteson personally. There’s just little evidence suggesting any—much less all—of these towers are likely to actually get built as advertised.

I feel like it bears mentioning okcÂ’s skyline is very sparse even for a city its size., the city is also very vulnerable to scams due to its lack of oversight/ pro business climate. . Not to mention if anything gets built in this climate it would be Oil since itÂ’s $85/barrel right now. The odds are this guy doesnÂ’t have the resources. CanÂ’t get the resources. And when he fails heÂ’ll disappear or claim that itÂ’s not an anti business environment to save face., this is the problem with this type of spec development., you have to build it and they have to profit. This is the same as the sunset theater which id bet a 6 pack of IPA wonÂ’t get built either but I guarantee the developer (matteson too) will make some money off this somehwere

which is what I take Umbridge with.

No need to bring her into this. She is the worst.

Another thing we don’t have near the educated workforce necessary to support a development like this. And the height is a gimmick. Gimmicks play really well here for some reason

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

So, do your digging and present us with actual verifiable facts that conclude that based on his history this is likely to be built. Don’t use puffy anecdotes but real research and facts. It isn’t bias to report actual information just because it appears negative. It isn’t digging up dirt, it is reporting based on research. Do it for us and convince us there are facts not being reported correctly. If you believe there is another and fairer truth, show us what it is. And don’t just repeat their own pr, but find us facts.

The math here doesn't come close to adding up.

Here is a project in Nashville with a 34-story hotel and 21-story office tower. The construction cost in 2019 was $540 million; adjusted for today's dollars that would be $654 million. Divide that amount by 55 floors and you get $11.8 million/floor.

https://www.bdcnetwork.com/237-room-hotel-will-anchor-nashvilles-new-540-million-mixed-use-development?page=31

Closer to home, Devon spent almost a billion in adjusted dollars just for a single 50-story building with some ancillary buildings. That's $19 million per floor. Even 27-story BOK Park Plaza cost $333 million in today's dollars, or $12.3 million per floor. The Omni was over $15 million per floor.


For the Boardwalk, Matteson has stated the budget is $1.5 billion and that's for a total of (3) 34-story buildings plus 134 for Legends Tower. Divide 1.5 billion by 236 total floors and you get $6.4 million per floor. And that's in today's dollars, not including inflation by the time all this is complete in 4-5 years, at best.

So, Matteson is saying he can build for half the price of recent comparable projects and do it while constructing the tallest building in the U.S., which is significantly more expensive than any 30-story building.

Another reference point: OKC just budgeted $1 billion just for a new arena. But Matteson is going to build the tallest building in the country plus three more 34-story towers and everything else a block away for merely 50% more.


Also, every previous project he is claiming was through Centurian Partners, not him personally. We have no idea what stake he held in Centurian or what stake Centurian had in any of these completed projects. What we do know is he tried to do something on his own with Quicksilver Hotels and made a bunch of bold promises that completely collapsed. He has done absolutely nothing in his own name or in that of the newly-formed Matteson Capital; Centurian Capital seems to have dissolved.

I did find that a few years ago he was served with legal papers and was living in an apartment in Orange County. There was also the GoFundMe thing for his medical bills and that was in 2019.


Maybe he's raised a ton of money and maybe he'll be able to pull off some or all of this project. But thus far, there has been no hard evidence (i.e. not just his own claims) that would suggest he has anywhere near the wherewithal to get this done. And his budget for the Boardwalk is nowhere close to reality; rather than $1.5 billion he's going to need somewhere between $3-5 billion.


Saddest thing, to me, is that we had a pretty cool project here and now, even if the realistic portion of this gets done (still a big IF), the porject will seem like a failure to the general public since the supertall won't get built. And that leaves aside the nationwide laughing-stock matter. I still lol at Midland's skyscraper plan from 10 years ago.

Saddest thing, to me, is that we had a pretty cool project here and now, even if the realistic portion of this gets done (still a big IF), the porject will seem like a failure to the general public since the supertall won't get built. And that leaves aside the nationwide laughing-stock matter. I still lol at Midland's skyscraper plan from 10 years ago.

Another disproportionately tall building that was a terrible idea and they were fortunate that it didn’t materialize.

Another disproportionately tall building that was a terrible idea and they were fortunate that it didn’t materialize.

The developer that proposed that is also going to be in federal prison for a very, very long time. Look up Nate Paul in Austin, World Class Capital lol. I was even recruited to work on that project out of grad school, thankfully I didn't take the job. I really wanted to be in Austin but intuition saved me - way too many red flags when I did the final in person interview.

Im sure residential buildings cost less than office on a floor square foot basis. Pete, your examples were all office.

Also, he has $1.7B if you include the TIF. I'd also imagine he'd use revenue generated from the 50% sale/leasing of the Emerald and Ruby residential towers to use for the supertall - otherwise, he wouldn't have that as a performa kanban for Legends Tower to begin.

I'm not sure what the cost should be but just want to keep things as apples to apples and consistent if possible.4

Office is actually the cheapest for the developer. The builders on most commercial (office, retail, industrial) build the shell. Then tenants pay for the finish outs which in Class A office can be $50 - $200 a square feet in major markets like DC, NY, San Fran, etc. Those costs are passed to the tenant in their lease, typically amortized over the term.

On multifamily or condos, the developer has to finish out the spaces themselves up front (with the exception being condos sometimes being in shell for customization by a buyer). Office and retail once finished out cost more than multifamily but for developer costs it's not the most expensive.

Saddest thing is that some get perturbed over the fact that Legends might not get built or built �� Anywho so…….

Residential Central Park Tower in New York City is 1,550ft (472.4m) 98 floors cost 3 billion usd. Completed 2020 took 6 years to build.

Residential 111 West 57st Tower in New York City 1,428ft (435m) 84 floors cost 2 billion usd. Completed 2022 took 7 years to build.

Residential+hotel St. Regis in Chicago 1,198ft (365m) 101 floors cost nearly 1 billion usd. Completed 2020 took years 4 years to build.

Just to compare outside the US

Mixed used Merdeka 118 Tower in Malaysia 2,227ft (678.9m) 118 floors cost 1.5 billion usd. Completed in 2023 took 8 years to build.

Mixed used Burj Khalifa tallest building in the world 163 floors cost 1.5 billion usd. Completed in 2010

I’m assuming New York City cost a ton more because of how dense the area is along with traffic, safety and permits. Now I don’t know if the cost included land acquisition.

Saddest thing, to me, is that we had a pretty cool project here and now, even if the realistic portion of this gets done (still a big IF), the porject will seem like a failure to the general public since the supertall won't get built. And that leaves aside the nationwide laughing-stock matter. I still lol at Midland's skyscraper plan from 10 years ago.

If the three towers actually get built as advertised then it will be a huge win and it will make an everyday difference in people's lives that frequent the area. It would be one of the biggest developments in OKC history. People would get over the supertall.

^

I've said all the way along I would be happy if one of the towers gets built, preferably the Dream Hotel.

When they got the $200 million in TIF, their proposal was two 24-floor towers with a third one to come only after the other two were complete and leased.

Then, somehow, it shot up to 3 towers of 34 stories and a 134-floor tower. All this in about a month.

Incorrect. The original submittal always included 4 towers, to be built in phases.

They applied for TIF (and was approved) for 2 residential towers and one hotel was to be built themselves as phase 1. Phase 2 was always Tower 3, which was to be built upon demand. There were changes along the way, first, all 3 phase 1 towers increased to 35 floors and the hotel tower identifed as a Dream Hotel by Hyatt. This was all announced prior to the vote on the arena.

After the arena, renderings came out and they announced that phase 2 tower 3 will be a supertall, known as Legends Tower. Originally it was announced to 1,775 feet (one short of Freedom tower's spire) recently in February they announced Legends to be 1,907 and have sense applied for variance to that height for the entire project to the FAA and city.

Yes, Legends tower has taken away from the original scope but it's clear that there was always 4 towers, phase 1 has always been 3 towers (two of which are supported by TIF agreement with the city and one a hotel) and that phase 2 would be a spec residential tbd on the success of phase 1's twin towers. That has been clarified to 50% performa on the 576 rooms to 'activate' construction on Legends Tower.

skeptics aside, this has flowed for the past 3 years. Not sure why there's skepticism on the number of towers now. ..

Because he has $200 million in essentially free money from the city. I also don't have a bias against him like many on here seem to have. He has gone through many meetings with the city (costing money). Why piss away money if you aren't serious about the project?

It would be one thing if people on here were guarded in their views of him. But basically calling him a grifter and a slime ball. Digging to find any and everything negative they can. Yeah, that shows a bias. Disregarding any and everything that is even remotely positive about him? Yeah, that shows a bias. Even if this doesn't get built, I don't want to have a bias about him, considering I have never met or talked to him.

Exactly, Im nott sure why everyone on here is now doubting the original proposal that always said 4 towers. Even if you look back to the block renderings - it had 4 towers phased on two phases. Phase 1 was ALWAYS 3 towers, 2 residential twins approved by the city with $200 million TIF rebate and 1 hotel tower and Phase 2 a spec residential tower dependent upon success of the other 2. Now, to help back up skepticism people (including Pete) are questioning the original proposal. They didn't slip in a hotel tower, it was always there just wasn't covered by the TIF. I can go back and find these exact comments from folks on here who now are quesitoning. I don't get it - yet I'm the one with sunshine up my blank. I recall the original phase 1 was $760 million which included 3 towers and $200M in TIF (so $5XX million from the investment/developers). We all spoke about this yet now everybody forgets.

Put it this way, if it was $560 million to build 3 towers and podium or even the full $760 million with TIF, one could extrapolate a total price of $1.5 billion with the supertall costing $740 million by itself. right? I can't figure out the life of me, someone going through all of this including application to the FAA and variance from the city, with $200M in rebate that kicks in after phase 1 residential opens..

I'm only stating what has been said, and that it appears that he's following through, whether Josh from TX likes it or not. I personally don't have a bone either way, but if Legends tower is built I would like to invest. Others have come on here saying the same and I'm not drinking kool aid - city staff know something as does the alliance, this will get built.

I have no preference about this development one way or the other. I just see reality and know the real estate game. I am so confident in my opinion I would be willing to place a monetary bet that what I said happens versus the opposite. That’s how obvious a sham this is.

Exactly, Im nott sure why everyone on here is now doubting the original proposal that always said 4 towers. Even if you look back to the block renderings - it had 4 towers phased on two phases. Phase 1 was ALWAYS 3 towers, 2 residential twins approved by the city with $200 million TIF rebate and 1 hotel tower and Phase 2 a spec residential tower dependent upon success of the other 2. Now, to help back up skepticism people (including Pete) are questioning the original proposal. They didn't slip in a hotel tower, it was always there just wasn't covered by the TIF. I can go back and find these exact comments from folks on here who now are quesitoning. I don't get it - yet I'm the one with sunshine up my blank. I recall the original phase 1 was $760 million which included 3 towers and $200M in TIF (so $5XX million from the investment/developers). We all spoke about this yet now everybody forgets.

Put it this way, if it was $560 million to build 3 towers and podium or even the full $760 million with TIF, one could extrapolate a total price of $1.5 billion with the supertall costing $740 million by itself. right? I can't figure out the life of me, someone going through all of this including application to the FAA and variance from the city, with $200M in rebate that kicks in after phase 1 residential opens..

I'm only stating what has been said, and that it appears that he's following through, whether Josh from TX likes it or not. I personally don't have a bone either way, but if Legends tower is built I would like to invest. Others have come on here saying the same and I'm not drinking kool aid - city staff know something as does the alliance, this will get built.

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

If the developer is lying about the mega tall tower, and he most certainly is, then why would you believe anything he says? He is not someone anyone should do business with. He is not credible.