I would be beyond thrilled if we get the 3 towers.

The 3 towers seem pretty realistic and obtainable, right?

New Yorkers are not too happy, lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvlfU9XBlEc

man they are salty!

The 3 towers seem pretty realistic and obtainable, right?

I mean that to me is the question. It’s more realistic but at the same time I’m not counting chickens until I see the tower cranes go up for the 3rd tower. Would a 4th tower be great? Sure! A tall one would be awesome but sometimes people do things to try to round up investors too which makes me think the 3rd tower may be pie in the sky too

Added to the OKC model I have. Also, how can I upload images "as is" instead of uploading small attachments?
18585

nice model, seems to fit in nicely from this angle actually. I'd like to see other prospectives if possible.

very interesting to see all of the firms involved in this project. OKCFreePress (https://freepressokc.com/developers-now-want-boardwalk-at-bricktown-tower-to-be-tallest-in-u-s/) has the details. This also has me very hopeful that this WILL get built, phase 1 and 2. why would these firms risk their credibility if this was a scam.

OKC is on the rise, big time, I think this just illustrates that. The fact that this will be OKC's first luxury multi-use high rise residential, makes sense that they're going big. We'll never see this (Legends Tower) again, so why not set the standard and WAKE UP New York and Chicago in the process?

Puts OKC on the WORLD map as well, sixth tallest tower. WOW.

If I've learned anything about urban development from following this forum for well over a decade, it's that you should always presume a development may not happen or will be scaled back. It happens all the time. I think the chances of this super tall happening are very, very small. I'm just hopeful the other towers happen, which is not at all a sure thing.

Everybody sees things from their own perspectives and neither of us is "right" or "wrong."

Personally I find it hard to believe a developer will spend what will easily be hundreds of millions of dollars to build a 134 story building just to make a statement. Who in the world would finance that? And why would a California developer care about "creating a landmark" in Oklahoma City? He will build it if the market need will dictate it and if he could get financing. I just doubt either of those will materialize.

I see people talk about OKC wanting/needing a landmark structure a la the space needle. But very few cities really have that. What is the landmark structure in Phoenix? Or Charlotte? Or Pittsburgh? Or for that matter since they are booming cities - Austin or Nashville? I will tell you from experience that St. Louis has a landmark - the Gateway Arch - and the urban core of this city has faded pretty dramatically in the 60 years since it was built. Not one iota of difference has the Arch made to St. Louis beyond a pretty picture as you cross the river. Not saying these things have to be mutually exclusive. You could have a landmark and a thriving city. But this just seems like a vanity project. And not realistic. I think this developer is capitalizing on the attention this is getting (It was in the Daily Mail in London, for God's sakes!) and bully for him.

It's fun to speculate and dream and that's what this thread is about. But the 35 story towers in Phase 1 will be their own game changer, and in a good way, and have a much better chance of happening.

While I can see your argument here, I'll also be willing to play a little devils advocate to what's been highlighted; The question of landmarks.
Phoenix: The city itself and mountains behind it, not even manmade, the best kind of landmark is the one you build around. The same can be said for Salt Lake, but there's so much around that you don't need anything tall to stick out.
Charlotte: Bank of America Corporate Center, the tallest structure and the most prominent in the night skyline. It's an icon that's easily identifiable among the other larger cities in the nation. Bright as hell at night too.
Pittsburgh: Easily the three sisters, all three being suspension bridges spanning the Allegany River. They're also all yellow, along with a few of the other bridges spanning the river. It's configuration gives it the distinction of "Bridge City."
Austin: It's namesake the Austonian. It might be in the running for third place with Sixth and Guadalupe being constructed, but it's position from the river's vantage point stands out far better than anything else in town.
Nashville: Easily the AT&T Building, it's unique crown configuration stands out from everything else in the surrounding area, even if it's not the tallest building in the city. You identify Nashville because of that building.

Now granted, the Arch in St. Louis does bring tourism, interesting elevator ride up to the top. But it's a limited space icon, you can only have so many attend, so few taken in an elevator (like 3-5 at a time due to space), and the city hasn't done much with itself over the past decade. It had the hip-hop scene that made it mainstream in the early 2000's, but that's all it had up to that point other than a few other things like the NFL, MLB, and MLS. But with the NFL taking it's leave back to LA, those billions in revenue have been lost. Large cities like New York, LA, and SF are losing citizens due to affordability, cost of living is far too much for basic amenities, much less the luxuries offered in those areas. Each of those cities have landmarks, or multiples of them.

For OKC, the landmark we currently have is the Devon, easily the most identifiable beacon we have in the middle of the prairie. But even that place has trouble keeping the lights on at night (that's a corporate issue), and has been having those issues for going on over half a decade now. And with more spots downtown filling up, I think that having this would be a huge commercial and residential benefit. See how those New Yorkers take pride in their tower? We understand what it means to them, and that where it stands looks over the shadow of what's been lost. This project comes nowhere near close to that purpose, but it has brought international attention to our growing hamlet, a place I've manage to watch grow from the sleepy days of the 90's, the relative quiet of the turning century, to the more bombastic term of the latter half of that initial decade. Now we enter into our "ascended boomtown" age, where we get the big things, the flashy things, the stuff that makes your jaw drop. Even if it's merely a proposition, it's grabbed the attention of the world and now there's eyes on us. If it falls through, it would be a global disappointment, but at least we'll have some international interests looking our way outside of the slight portion of the Olympics we're set to host. If it's built to even half of what we have proposed, that's over 900 feet we're looking at to match the size of the Devon. If built up to vision, we'd see an enormous boom of economic interest.

We love this development for the game changer it is in reality, even for the first phase. But the buzz this second phase has created looks to make it more probable. There will be more sponsors than the ones currently projected if they show they're serious about this tower being built. To simply sum it up: If you build it, they will come... running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvlfU9XBlEc

This was hilarious. They even found a Texan and got an "OU sucks" out of it.

If I've learned anything about urban development from following this forum for well over a decade, it's that you should always presume a development may not happen or will be scaled back. It happens all the time. I think the chances of this super tall happening are very, very small. I'm just hopeful the other towers happen, which is not at all a sure thing.

Let's just be honest. The tallest tower in the country is NOT happening.

A two or three tower arrangement in range of 300-500ft seems very doable though.

Added to the OKC model I have. Also, how can I upload images "as is" instead of uploading small attachments?
18585

Cool! I also modeled the 4 buildings into my model of OKC I have. I used postimages.org to get image URLs.
https://i.postimg.cc/hKVpLmwb/okc-supertall-1.png
https://i.postimg.cc/GLgQLx8r/okc-supertall-2.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rVwj2PpQ/okc-supertall-3.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2zwGJDC1/okc-supertall-4.png
https://i.postimg.cc/vQMX3BwR/okc-supertall-5.png

Cool! I also modeled the 4 buildings into my model of OKC I have. I used postimages.org to get image URLs.
https://i.postimg.cc/hKVpLmwb/okc-supertall-1.png
https://i.postimg.cc/GLgQLx8r/okc-supertall-2.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rVwj2PpQ/okc-supertall-3.png
https://i.postimg.cc/2zwGJDC1/okc-supertall-4.png
https://i.postimg.cc/vQMX3BwR/okc-supertall-5.png

From the NW angle it actually looks quite nice haha.

Let's just be honest. The tallest tower in the country is NOT happening.

A two or three tower arrangement in range of 300-500ft seems very doable though.

That IMO is an fair assessment; however, lately a lot of focus has been on OKC. There has got to be some 'unknowns'
that developers know for them to dangle this project out there.

Why OKC, IDK. Maybe Pete has spotted some leads he's not ready to release.

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.
Since it is so flat around OKC you could calculate it. Use the height and the arc of the earth.

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.

I've already seen downtown from a couple of locations: I-40/US 81 in El Reno, and from the north, State Hwy 74F, just west of Hwy 74 (Portland Ave.). Both locations 23ish miles from downtown.

The Devon tower can be seen at several locations near Purcell which is around 30ish miles. New tower would be visible from Texas :)

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.

When Devon tower was under construction a member here looked at the topography of the state to figure out how far away you would be able to see it and it was pretty fascinating. Would be cool if somebody would do that again.

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.

Driving westbound on I-40, you can see Devon from the US-177 interchange just west of Shawnee, and from El Reno, driving eastbound on I-40, so this would be waaaay more visible...

The amount of national press they have gotten is insane. But I guess that was the point.............

https://i.postimg.cc/vQMX3BwR/okc-supertall-5.png

Uh oh! Looks like the tower is already leaning... the Leaning Tower of OKC. Twister must have knocked it off center. ;)

Uh oh! Looks like the tower is already leaning... the Leaning Tower of OKC. Twister must have knocked it off center. ;)

Nah, man. It's the Chuck Norris Tower. It knocks the Twister out.

man they are salty!

LOL at the "OU sucks" comment. Geez.

The amount of national press they have gotten is insane. But I guess that was the point.............

International! I was reading stories about it in European outlets. It's genius marketing.

If it were built, I can't help but wonder how far away you would be able to see it. Too bad you can't go on Google maps, and place an item of any height, to see how far away it would be visible.
From 1907 feet the distance to horizon is 53.5 miles on otherwise flat ground. This would mean, depending upon corresponding elevations and elimination of visual obstructions, that you'd almost certainly be able to see the top of the (currently fictitious) tower from places like Hennessey, Stillwater, Stroud, Seminole, Paul's Valley, Rush Springs, Anadarko, Fort Cobb Reservoir, Watonga.

When it comes to existing buildings I recall 30+ years ago when I lived in north Edmond - north of Covell and Santa Fe - that I could see BancFirst (then Liberty) tower when I pulled onto Santa Fe north of Covell. That's 20+ miles, and that building is only 500'. I do believe there was a bit of an elevation trick when viewed from that location.

From 1907 feet the distance to horizon is 53.5 miles on otherwise flat ground. This would mean, depending upon corresponding elevations and elimination of visual obstructions, that you'd almost certainly be able to see the top of the (currently fictitious) tower from places like Hennessey, Stillwater, Stroud, Seminole, Paul's Valley, Rush Springs, Anadarko, Fort Cobb Reservoir, Watonga.

When it comes to existing buildings I recall 30+ years ago when I lived in north Edmond - north of Covell and Santa Fe - that I could see BancFirst (then Liberty) tower when I pulled onto Santa Fe north of Covell. That's 20+ miles, and that building is only 500'. I do believe there was a bit of an elevation trick when viewed from that location.

Stillwater is in a valley, so you likely won't see it from there, unless you go outside of town to a higher elevation. An example would be near the junction of I-35 and Highway 51, especially if the Oklahoma City antenna farm can be seen from there. Towers are around 1,550 ft. Maybe some of the radio and tv station transmitters would want to move to the top of Legacy. And improve reception outside of the metro area, especially to the south.

Student housing on the north side of OSU is at a higher-than-average elevation. Perhaps the tower would be seen from the top floors.

Driving westbound on I-40, you can see Devon from the US-177 interchange just west of Shawnee, and from El Reno, driving eastbound on I-40, so this would be waaaay more visible...

I drive that regularly, I've never seen Devon tower from there, but I guess I've never looked. I'll try to check that out next week.

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

Yeah I remember that as well. I won't take it too seriously until ground is broken.

Stillwater is in a valley, so you likely won't see it from there, unless you go outside of town to a higher elevation. An example would be near the junction of I-35 and Highway 51, especially if the Oklahoma City antenna farm can be seen from there. Towers are around 1,550 ft. Maybe some of the radio and tv station transmitters would want to move to the top of Legacy. And improve reception outside of the metro area, especially to the south.

Student housing on the north side of OSU is at a higher-than-average elevation. Perhaps the tower would be seen from the top floors.
Yes, that’s why I loaded my post up qualifiers, i.e. “…depending upon corresponding elevations and elimination of visual obstructions..”


18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.
And that’s why I described the tower as “currently fictitious.”

I do believe the first phase happens, FWIW. I’ve been talking with some of the people involved in this project from the outset. The people here are for real. The supertall, who knows…

Yes, that’s why I loaded my post up qualifiers, i.e. “…depending upon corresponding elevations and elimination of visual obstructions..”


And that’s why I described the tower as “currently fictitious.”

I do believe the first phase happens, FWIW. I’ve been talking with some of the people involved in this project from the outset. The people here are for real. The supertall, who knows…

Yeah I think it's highly likely a 2 or 3 tower space gets built. Honestly I'd like something a little taller than planned even if that means two towers simply to help balance DVN. We need something in between Bancfirst and DVN in height. The discrepancy there is pretty dramatic.

But that's unlikely for this project. We need Chevron to move their HQ to OKC...well that's probably unlikely too lol.

Or Chase bank .....

Made national news. Mostly rehash and ends with OKC isn't ready for this.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/investing/americas-tallest-building-oklahoma-city/index.html

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

These buildings were so freaking beautiful. I really hope someone pays OGE for those plans and plops them down on any of the blocks that front either MBG or Scissortail.

18588

Still one of the biggest disappointments for me. I want buildings wrapping around all sides of the Myriad so badly.

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

The biggest OKC development dissappointment of the 2010s. When that was announced, the developer and the city were pretty confident that at least one of the towers would get built. The other three were more aspirational. In hindsight, it appears that rendering may have simply been a means to quiet public opposition to the demolition of the Stage Center.

If I've learned anything about urban development from following this forum for well over a decade, it's that you should always presume a development may not happen or will be scaled back. It happens all the time. I think the chances of this super tall happening are very, very small. I'm just hopeful the other towers happen, which is not at all a sure thing.

If everything in the development happens EXCEPT for the supertall, that will still be a huge win for OKC and the kind of development that's been missing in downtown.

This was on the front page of CNN today.

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

I remember when Pete posted that Clayco were in over their heads with that project.

I remember when Pete posted that Clayco were in over their heads with that project.

He hasn't said the same about the current project. Sure, he doubts the super tall tower, but the rest, he is optimistic on. Matteson Capital is a VERY competent group with numerous large projects to their name.

If everything in the development happens EXCEPT for the supertall, that will still be a huge win for OKC and the kind of development that's been missing in downtown.

I agree 100% with this. Even if we only get a 2 tower version that's still a big win. Mid-rise development in OKC is still a win whether it's 1, 2 or 3 towers.

Made national news. Mostly rehash and ends with OKC isn't ready for this.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/investing/americas-tallest-building-oklahoma-city/index.html

It said the entire development project is estimated to cost $1.6 billion, including $770 million for the tower. Compare that to the $5.5 billion dollar new refinery in Cushing.

I agree 100% with this. Even if we only get a 2 tower version that's still a big win. Mid-rise development in OKC is still a win whether it's 1, 2 or 3 towers.

Also, 30+ story towers are not mid-rise. Those are high-rise, especially by OKC standards.

Also, 30+ story towers are not mid-rise. Those are high-rise, especially by OKC standards.

I can't help but wonder what classifies as a high rise for some people. The Empire State Building or taller?

I can't help but wonder what classifies as a high rise for some people. The Empire State Building or taller?

As quoted from iccsafe.org (https://www.iccsafe.org/building-safety-journal/bsj-technical/talking-in-code-high-rise-building-definition/): As indicated in the definition for a high-rise building in Section 202 of the 2015 International Building Code (IBC), a building is considered a high-rise when there is an “occupied floor” more than 75 feet above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.

As quoted from iccsafe.org (https://www.iccsafe.org/building-safety-journal/bsj-technical/talking-in-code-high-rise-building-definition/): As indicated in the definition for a high-rise building in Section 202 of the 2015 International Building Code (IBC), a building is considered a high-rise when there is an “occupied floor” more than 75 feet above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access.

Then, the way I interpret that is, any building where there's an occupied floor 75 feet or higher off the ground. You don't even need to be 10 stories up for that. I stick with the generic less than 5, 5-9, and 10+ building definitions. Less than 5 being low rise. 5-9 being mid rise. 10 or greater being a high rise. By my definition, we've had 5 high rises built in OKC since the completion of Devon. BOK Park Plaza, Omni Hotel, the hotel in Bricktown, Okana Resort's hotel, and The Citizen.

18588
I just wanna remind everyone of this project here and what happened. I am very hopeful this project goes through at least partially but remembering this fiasco kinda curbs my enthusiasm.

My wife and I were completely bummed when the Stage Center closed and then demo'd. The plans for what was to replace softened the loss, but when it fell through, we knew the rug of lies was pulled. Def felt that this was done just to get rid of SC and shut people up like BChris02 said.

Then, the way I interpret that is, any building where there's an occupied floor 75 feet or higher off the ground. You don't even need to be 10 stories up for that. I stick with the generic less than 5, 5-9, and 10+ building definitions. Less than 5 being low rise. 5-9 being mid rise. 10 or greater being a high rise. By my definition, we've had 5 high rises built in OKC since the completion of Devon. BOK Park Plaza, Omni Hotel, the hotel in Bricktown, Okana Resort's hotel, and The Citizen.

The OAK hotel and the Innovation District hotel both count by means of the IBC definition. And BTW, the Empire State Building is not a highrise, it's a 'supertall' by the means of the international benchmark of 300 meters (984 feet). A 'megatall' goes by the benchmark of 600 meters (1968 feet). So this proposed development barely shaves under the 'megatall' status.

That's insanity. If developers hypothetically decide to make it 1995 feet as a means to commemorate the bombing, we would have the country's first and only megatall.

I think by lowest level of vehicle access you're probably looking at 75' above what your tallest ladder truck with pumping apparatus can reach... in big cities that's pretty high... I used to work with guys who used a French made fire truck (fiberglass work on wind turbine blades) with 300'+ of reach. I would assume 75' above that.

as far as Oklahoma city goes, you'd have to look up what kind of trucks we have servicing the downtown area and what their reach is to service or execute entry/egress from a burning building I would say...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/01/27/oklahoma-city-skyscraper/72371121007/
Haha check this one out.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2024/01/27/oklahoma-city-skyscraper/72371121007/
Haha check this one out.

This snark and incredulity really represents the bulk of the response I've seen from this wave of national stories.

And using the TIF award as evidence of local optimism for the tower seems disingenuous. Wasn't that approved for the original plans that showed no such tower? I'm not saying it wouldn't have been awarded if this has been in the original plans but the logic seems reversed here.

What I don't understand is some of the New York outrage. Some act like they've had the tallest skyscraper since the beginning of time and the Willis Tower in Chicago never existed.

^^^^^^^^^^
The height of the new WTC was specifically intended to restore the “tallest building” status to NYC and to honor those lost during the 9/11 attacks. Rather than something of such important symbolism, the proposed OKC building seems to be at best a celebration of brashness and at worst a publicity stunt. I get the NYC irritation.

The NYC reporters are literally grabbing people at random, sticking a mic in their face and asking what do they think about flyover country Oklahoma having a bigger building. Of course the people aren’t going to be happy. But, the reporter is trying to get the answer they want. Key thing is if she said Boston or Philly they wouldn’t be happy either.

The crazy thing is, people are acting like the supertall is going to break ground this Summer along with the other towers. IF the supertall actually gets builts, its a good 5 years out from breaking ground. After the hype dies down, the supertall will be forgotten until its brought back up again in 2030. And by then, it might not be the tallest building in the US after all.

Yea but most of the outrage isn't based on 911. I'm guessing a lot of people don't even know the reasoning behind why the height is what it is. The backlash that I'm noticing is basically people commenting on our lack of skyscrapers and population to need the tallest building in the U.S. Also I'm seeing comments saying we don't need it because of the tornadoes, even though places like Nashville has had more downtown damage due to tornadoes than us. This ain't about 911, this is about "most" of the people just want the tallest building, as would I.

The tornado comments are so ridiculous in particular. Pick any Oklahoma City address, there is a very good chance there has been no tornado activity between April 22nd, 1889 and present day. If we actually got hit by tornadoes half as often as the average person thinks we do, no one would live here because it would be cost-prohibitive lol, not to mention the risk of death.

The tornado comments are so ridiculous in particular. Pick any Oklahoma City address, there is a very good chance there has been no tornado activity between April 22nd, 1889 and present day. If we actually got hit by tornadoes half as often as the average person thinks we do, no one would live here because it would be cost-prohibitive lol, not to mention the risk of death.

Yep!

And when was the last tornado downtown? Let alone the last one that would damage a building built like these super talls are built now?

If everything in the development happens EXCEPT for the supertall, that will still be a huge win for OKC and the kind of development that's been missing in downtown.

welcome back bchris!

This snark and incredulity really represents the bulk of the response I've seen from this wave of national stories.

And using the TIF award as evidence of local optimism for the tower seems disingenuous. Wasn't that approved for the original plans that showed no such tower? I'm not saying it wouldn't have been awarded if this has been in the original plans but the logic seems reversed here.

I actually thought the article was well written and got the facts correct. Yes, it included some clever headers meant to generate interest, but they weren't derogatory. What did you find snarky about it?

I actually thought the article was well written and got the facts correct. Yes, it included some clever headers meant to generate interest, but they weren't derogatory. What did you find snarky about it?

You're right. It wasn't too bad of an article (most of the recent press has had the exact same quotes and information). I think it was early-morning me responding to "...Oklahoma City? OK." (with the obvious pun) and including a section of quotes from people who are skeptical or doubtful OKC could pull this off. But honestly, their opinions aren't that far from my own, so they're probably fair game.