From the article:



So they have 25% of the reservations for the condo towers already in hand? Seems like a very good sign if I am reading that right. Also, I see that it wasn't just the few of us on this forum that were paying attention to all the recent construction cranes.

that is the 22 for sale condos in the dream hotel tower ...

so 25% reservations means they have 5/6 of those spoked for

guys, one other thing to think about - we've been begging for a monument tower (like space needle) to add to the downtown skyline. while not a typical of that type, if built Tower 3 could serve as OKC's monument tower. Think of it that way vs. being so out of place, like Devon actually is currently.

This could serve as a bold statement for OKC. Yes, there are many other plots to build on. But a skinny supertall actually works nicely for THIS location. And, could serve to garner additional towers to the Cox site, REHCO lands, OGE lands, and possibly Strawberry fields. It's aspirational indeed, but good news is we definitely get the 3 tower complex that itself has been updated - construction starts in a few months!!

For the record see post 879

"The actual development looks really cool and intriguing."

My apologies. I must have accidentally glossed over that. My fault.

It does look great, even without the 130+ story building.

I couldn’t be happier with the design of at least the three towers (the super tall is obviously greatly exciting…)

I think building up this high is a good move if we ever want to make a nationally recognized skyline. Of course, it will look a little strange and out of place, but we will continue to grow and it’s neat to see a bold decision to start with a giant project. This would be a huge flex for us, especially if we are on global display for the Olympics.

It isn't the ONLY reason. Go to Dubai sometime... there's plenty of land but they want the prestige of going UP. Tall buildings are a symbol of prosperity and progress.

This rendering is most likely aspirational, as they say themselves. But anything that is a signature tall building would be the sign of a new era in OKC. Look at Austin when they announced the 50+ floor residential. Others followed quickly.

Sorry I haven't been to Dubai, man I must live under a rock. Anyways, a 1,776ft tower has no place in dowtown OKC right now, I don't care how you argue it. Austin current tallest tower (875ft) doesn't even come close to this, so thats a bad comparison. Lets be realistic, OKC is not Dubai, NYC, or even Austin.

it's a statement tower. it's aspirational, it might not be that tall. And they stated 1750 feet.

As I mentioned, I see this - if built - to be OKC's monument tower, a statement. Even with this tower, it doesn't mean OKC is trying to be anybody but itself. What I expect to be built? the 3 35 floor towers and Tower 3 probably being 1000 feet (which will still be hugely impressive and still give us a supertall).

Sorry I haven't been to Dubai, man I must live under a rock. Anyways, a 1,776ft tower has no place in dowtown OKC right now, I don't care how you argue it. Austin current tallest tower (875ft) doesn't even come close to this, so thats a bad comparison. Lets be realistic, OKC is not Dubai, NYC, or even Austin.

I totally understand this. But this is what keeps us from growing, being realistic. Let’s do more than that. There will surely be other projects that follow that will put this to scale. Let’s think big and attract even more growth.

I totally understand this. But this is what keeps us from growing, being realistic. Let’s do more than that. There will surely be other projects that follow that will put this to scale. Let’s think big and attract even more growth.

Lol...what keeps us from growing is that we're poor relative to our peers because we can't attract major companies because we're uneducated relative to our peers.

Sorry I haven't been to Dubai, man I must live under a rock. Anyways, a 1,776ft tower has no place in dowtown OKC right now, I don't care how you argue it. Austin current tallest tower (875ft) doesn't even come close to this, so thats a bad comparison. Lets be realistic, OKC is not Dubai, NYC, or even Austin.

You totally miss the point, but oh well.

If you or anyone else gets so bent about an aspirational pie in the sky drawing, well, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell. No one is saying that this is actually going to get built, least of all the developer. But for you to say that the only reason to build a supertall is because of land availability is just silly. I pointed out examples where supertalls were built where there is plenty of land and pointed to what they represent, and your best argument against that is that we aren't Dubai or Austin. LOL.

Lol...what keeps us from growing is that we're poor relative to our peers because we can't attract major companies because we're uneducated relative to our peers.

Meh. We just don't have the human capital Texas does, it isn't like they are some super-educated Boston-level super hub for education. They have no income tax and a huge population. Those are 2 of the biggest reason companies go there. And I doubt you are ok with getting rid of OK's income tax.

Lol...what keeps us from growing is that we're poor relative to our peers because we can't attract major companies because we're uneducated relative to our peers.

Right. So let’s see if we can change that!

I know you can build a supertall anywhere you want. I am not dumb. My main argument is this is not good land use for downtown OKC. I would rather them build a equal maybe slightly taller tower on that site. Then spend the money and build another 2-3 500-600ft residential towers closer to the core. This gives the downtown core more density, and a level skyline.

Meh. We just don't have the human capital Texas does, it isn't like they are some super-educated Boston-level super hub for education. They have no income tax and a huge population. Those are 2 of the biggest reason companies go there. And I doubt you are ok with getting rid of OK's income tax.

Austin also has one of the best universities in the United States and a student population almost the size of Midwest City.

Meh. We just don't have the human capital Texas does, it isn't like they are some super-educated Boston-level super hub for education. They have no income tax and a huge population. Those are 2 of the biggest reason companies go there. And I doubt you are ok with getting rid of OK's income tax.

Austin has UT and other highly rated educational institutions near by. If they aren't Boston, we certainly aren't Austin. It attracted a huge highly educated tech support community. It didn't always have a huge population, but attracted a big influx of educated population based on high paying available jobs complementary to what they had and what they worked at bringing in. Oklahoma is generally anti education and doesn't have a great demographic for the companies with the best paying jobs.

Austin also has a way larger capital base that invests in start-ups. OKC is relatively capital poor and tech starved. We tend to think opening a restaurant is a great entrepreneurial goal, not starting a tech co with the ability to hire thousands in the near future. (Nothing against restaurants and the service industry, but that can't be the core of your growth.)

Yes, there are no state income taxes in Texas, but their overall tax burden is not low, even compared to OK. Texas has the 29th highest tax burden and OK just 41st.

Gentlemen. As someone who is very tuned into real estate development. I’ve seen this type of grandiose announcement made by developers looking for a quick cash grab or handout from a city. I can almost promise you, nothing proposed will be built. I suggest no one set themselves up for disappointment.

It will be a skinny tower like the new ones in New York City.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/12/18/developer-to-build-2nd-tallest-building-in-the-us-for-okc-apartments/71937684007/

Is this land being held by OCURA or a private seller? If OCURA, it seems pretty typical for developers to make big promises to get land on the cheap and then do something else.

It'd be neat to get towers, but I'm expecting 4-story wood framed apartments.

Gentlemen. As someone who is very tuned into real estate development. I’ve seen this type of grandiose announcement made by developers looking for a quick cash grab or handout from a city. I can almost promise you, nothing proposed will be built. I suggest no one set themselves up for disappointment.

What cash grab scheme do you think this is? Are you saying you believe NOTHING will be built? Is the developer bilking the investors? TIF isn't received until spent and something built, so not with the city. With leasing pre-payments? I doubt anyone puts down payments till at least steel is in place and floors starting to build out. Who are they grabbing cash from?

Gentlemen. As someone who is very tuned into real estate development. I’ve seen this type of grandiose announcement made by developers looking for a quick cash grab or handout from a city. I can almost promise you, nothing proposed will be built. I suggest no one set themselves up for disappointment.

Do you know someone in the businesses involved that say this development won't be built? It's been in the works for years now. The city has already passed a TIF for it. I'll be glad to see the ground breaking next year to see it's being built. But to promise that nothing shown will be built is a stretch. Especially the 3 primary towers

Is this land being held by OCURA or a private seller? If OCURA, it seems pretty typical for developers to make big promises to get land on the cheap and then do something else.

It'd be neat to get towers, but I'm expecting 4-story wood framed apartments.

They've been showing towers for over 2 years now

This will never happen. There aren't even enough people who live in Oklahoma City who would be able to afford the rent in a tower that size with that many apartments.

Pipe dream.

But the renderings are nice!

My entire FB feed is people sharing this today. As of typing this looks like Oklahoman has about 25 shares. OKCTalk is approaching 2K. So yea, this is already pretty much a meme. Waiting for the Oklahoma-meme IG pages and Lost Ogle to start making the jokes later today.

Does anyone care what the Lost Ogle says about anything? They are a joke

Is this land being held by OCURA or a private seller? If OCURA, it seems pretty typical for developers to make big promises to get land on the cheap and then do something else.

It'd be neat to get towers, but I'm expecting 4-story wood framed apartments.

What on earth are you talking about?

I don't see a Shake Shack logo in the renderings, am I just missing it?

No you aren't missing it....just wishing for one

Austin has UT and other highly rated educational institutions near by. If they aren't Boston, we certainly aren't Austin. It attracted a huge highly educated tech support community. It didn't always have a huge population, but attracted a big influx of educated population based on high paying available jobs complementary to what they had and what they worked at bringing in. Oklahoma is generally anti education and doesn't have a great demographic for the companies with the best paying jobs.

Austin also has a way larger capital base that invests in start-ups. OKC is relatively capital poor and tech starved. We tend to think opening a restaurant is a great entrepreneurial goal, not starting a tech co with the ability to hire thousands in the near future. (Nothing against restaurants and the service industry, but that can't be the core of your growth.)

Yes, there are no state income taxes in Texas, but their overall tax burden is not low, even compared to OK. Texas has the 29th highest tax burden and OK just 41st.

But for companies going there, they get massive tax breaks, so they basically pay no property taxes. That burden gets shifted to the commoner.

Austin also has one of the best universities in the United States and a student population almost the size of Midwest City.

In my opinion, the university of texas really sucks

The tower being so tall it's cut off in the picture on the NewsOK headline is very funny to me.

18514

Build it.

Build it.

nah...reeks of little man syndrome

But for companies going there, they get massive tax breaks, so they basically pay no property taxes. That burden gets shifted to the commoner.

This is not true.

This is not true.

You win. I'm done having you breathing down my neck in every thread. Texas companies pay the same amount of taxes as Oklahoma. You're right. Those chapter 313 tax breaks weren't beneficial to corporations moving to Texas. Them having no state income tax or state capital gains tax doesn't benefit them moving to Texas. All things are equal between OK and TX. You win.

Anyways, while the super tall likely won't get built for a long time, the other towers look great, and seem to have som LOIs signs, as actually company logos and branding are included.

In my opinion, the university of texas really sucks

As a proud Sooner, we share opinions of our rival. However, I do respect the level of education they provide and the academic respect the institution has earned. The influence of their alums cannot be overlooked in the development of the Austin area either.

Just FYI, the last like 150 comments here are about this tower.
Boardwalk at Bricktown / Dream Hotel (okctalk.com) (https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46342)

Starting here: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46342&p=1253431#post1253431
With images here: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46342&p=1253446#post1253446

I choose to believe the tower will happen and no one can convince me otherwise.

This will never happen. There aren't even enough people who live in Oklahoma City who would be able to afford the rent in a tower that size with that many apartments.

Pipe dream.

But the renderings are nice!

That may be true now, but in 10-15 years, that may not be the case. At best, the planning on the super tall would begin in 6-10 years and would take another 3-4 to come to fruition. When hunting, shoot where the bird will be, not where it is now or you will always miss.

I choose to believe the tower will happen and no one can convince me otherwise.

:)

You win. I'm done having you breathing down my neck in every thread. Texas companies pay the same amount of taxes as Oklahoma. You're right. Those chapter 313 tax breaks weren't beneficial to corporations moving to Texas. Them having no state income tax or state capital gains tax doesn't benefit them moving to Texas. All things are equal between OK and TX. You win.

Anyways, while the super tall likely won't get built for a long time, the other towers look great, and seem to have som LOIs signs, as actually company logos and branding are included.

Not trying to "breath down your neck" but not accepting general broad statements on the board.

Nevada, Ohio, Texas, and Washington forgo corporate income taxes but instead impose gross receipts taxes on businesses, which are generally thought to be more economically harmful due to tax pyramiding, disparate impacts on low-margin businesses, and non-transparency. As to state corp tax: North Carolina’s flat rate of 2.5 percent is the lowest in the country, followed by rates in Missouri and Oklahoma (both at 4 percent) and North Dakota (4.31 percent).

OKC and OK keep ignoring the fact that poorly educated populations are highly responsible for low average income and low levels of capital investment. OKC has finally started to overcome the reputation of being a backwater city (thanks in part to the Thunder spotlight) but it needs to keep fighting for education, training, and capital, as well as lifestyle.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/12/18/proposed-okc-skyscraper-what-we-know-about-apartment-plans-financing/71958934007/

I just can't see this ever happening, but if it does, well that would be damned cool. Sort of like Devon, it will stick out like a sore thumb compared to the other buildings in downtown. If you thought the Devon Tower was a big middle finger, well what's this one? lol.

It says, it's dependent on the success of the other towers. We've yet to really build any downtown residential to the scale of the first 3 towers in this project. Conversions are not the same thing, neither are the suburban apartment complexes in Bricktown/Deep Deuce. So like they said, we'll see. Do we have enough market draw to get anywhere near this? I'm skeptical myself. One of the ever-present challenges is that downtown is in OKC Public Schools. I believe, specifically feeding in to Douglas? Yes we have some charters around. But honestly, i'm not living in downtown without a better education option for my children. I think that's going to be a big hindrance.

I choose to believe the tower will happen and no one can convince me otherwise.

I like you. Joining that mentality

Not trying to "breath down your neck" but not accepting general broad statements on the board.

Nevada, Ohio, Texas, and Washington forgo corporate income taxes but instead impose gross receipts taxes on businesses, which are generally thought to be more economically harmful due to tax pyramiding, disparate impacts on low-margin businesses, and non-transparency. As to state corp tax: North Carolina’s flat rate of 2.5 percent is the lowest in the country, followed by rates in Missouri and Oklahoma (both at 4 percent) and North Dakota (4.31 percent).

OKC and OK keep ignoring the fact that poorly educated populations are highly responsible for low average income and low levels of capital investment. OKC has finally started to overcome the reputation of being a backwater city (thanks in part to the Thunder spotlight) but it needs to keep fighting for education, training, and capital, as well as lifestyle.

I agree there. We need to focus more on not just funding education, but also spending the money wisely is important.

Edited to remove the callous remark I made, and remove politics from this. Apologies.

I agree there. We need to focus more on not just funding education, but also getting that inbred hick Walters out of there. We can throw all the money in the world at education, and it would fail because he believes books are bad.

I am on the side of educator and they tend to be against Walters but not for the reasons on your post. A post like yours calling a man you dislike inbred and against books in general and not certain books in particular is lazy, but probably effective rhetoric. I warn you against using these sort of tactics because if you do they will certainly be used against you and the opinions you hold in the future.

I know you will say that this is the way of the world and there is no going back, but I still hold out hope the better angels of our nature will reassert themselves at some point in my lifetime. Be well chsooner.

I agree there. We need to focus more on not just funding education, but also getting that inbred hick Walters out of there. We can throw all the money in the world at education, and it would fail because he believes books are bad.

Yeah, because education in Oklahoma was in such a great spot before Walters lol

Can you please quote where he said books are bad? Otherwise, I think you should delete your libel

A post like yours calling a man you dislike inbred

that is all people like him have...is to attack personally and tell lies. That is why I can't get behind teachers. If they can't even be honest themselves, how and why should I trust them with my children? If they are for porn being in libraries, how and why should I trust them with my children?

The state would be better without government run schools

that is all people like him have...is to attack personally and tell lies. That is why I can't get behind teachers. If they can't even be honest themselves, how and why should I trust them with my children? If they are for porn being in libraries, how and why should I trust them with my children?

The state would be better without government run schools
Aaannyywwaaaayyy….

Back to this development. I wish we had renderings without the supertall, and then one with it. Would be nice to see what the possible reality would look like 3-5 years from now.

I don't like Walters either but we are getting way political and off topic now...

I am on the side of educator and they tend to be against Walters but not for the reasons on your post. A post like yours calling a man you dislike inbred and against books in general and not certain books in particular is lazy, but probably effective rhetoric. I warn you against using these sort of tactics because if you do they will certainly be used against you and the opinions you hold in the future.

I know you will say that this is the way of the world and there is no going back, but I still hold out hope the better angels of our nature will reassert themselves at some point in my lifetime. Be well chsooner.

This. Over and over. For the sake of any future of civility, we must call out those whom we might otherwise agree with for insanely low standards for decent conversation. Thank you for these words. They are wise words, Canoe. I, too, hope all is not lost in believing immature name-calling, crude and crass “discussion” will one day soon be seen, again, for what is: intellectually lazy thinking and lacking of any class at all.

My question is Why? lol. Why do you want a tower that tall? There is surely not a need for it here, and it doesn't fit. So you are going to built the 2nd tallest building in the whole US, just because you can? Doesn't make any sense. I am sure that tower alone would cost more than $1B. Why not use that money and build another 4 tower mixed use development closer to downtown?

SO... Three towers seem like they are very very likely. one 35 floor 480 room hotel and two, 32 floor residential buildings, that they hope to break ground on in 2024. I'd assume late 2024 but holy smoke how exciting is all of this!

Matteson seems bullish on Oklahoma City, whether the supertall happens or not. Aspirational thinking by developers seemed to go away in the 90’s … if this is any indication, a developer like this guy who seems to really like where OKC is right now, is a good sign for our city.

I'd kind of like to see that super-tall split into two towers on the REHCO site.......talk about transforming the OKC skyline.

But this development will be incredible with just the primary towers. I can see the apartments attracting a lot of younger people to live in downtown which will spur all kinds of additional development for core services like groceries, etc. I'm glad there are provisions for "workforce" residences but wonder what the rent will be and what one might get. My son is a person that would likely be interested.

I'm usually one for pushing the forum to discuss projects in a reasonable manner focusing on feasibility, but screw it. This is too hilarious not to daydream about. Even if/when it never got more than a quarter full (and that's after every Thunder player on the roster taking a floor, reserving the penthouse for the mayor, and a handful of Russians parking some cash in a number of units), I would still LOVE to see this happen, solely because I would laugh every time I saw it towering above the city (which would be often).

that is all people like him have...is to attack personally and tell lies. That is why I can't get behind teachers. If they can't even be honest themselves, how and why should I trust them with my children? If they are for porn being in libraries, how and why should I trust them with my children?

The state would be better without government run schools
You seem stable.

I'm usually one for pushing the forum to discuss projects in a reasonable manner focusing on feasibility, but screw it. This is too hilarious not to daydream about. Even if/when it never got more than a quarter full (and that's after every Thunder player on the roster taking a floor, reserving the penthouse for the mayor, and a handful of Russians parking some cash in a number of units), I would still LOVE to see this happen, solely because I would laugh every time I saw it towering above the city (which would be often).

Lmao…while we’re on the subject, how far away do we think a 1750’ building could be seen from, anyways? I know you can see Devon clear out to Minco and Cashion under the right conditions.

You seem stable.

Hey, if being stable means not wanting my kids to see porn in the classroom, call me stable

It's not really proposed, it's more like it's an ambition of sorts, a demonstration of what's in the mind of the developer. If they ever actually go through with it, it would be substantially sized down.

UNBELIEVEABLE . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMT3-wuho8g

that is all people like him have...is to attack personally and tell lies. That is why I can't get behind teachers. If they can't even be honest themselves, how and why should I trust them with my children? If they are for porn being in libraries, how and why should I trust them with my children?

The state would be better without government run schools

The irony of CATHOLIC sooner lecturing anyone on taking your children around non trustworthy people LOL wow, just wow...

Hey, if being stable means not wanting my kids to see porn in the classroom, call me stable

Here we go... Another political propaganda thread. SMH. Hope Pete shuts the nonsense down quickly. Soon we will be talking about child sex rings in pizza places.

How do these threads take these turns lol

My apologies for bringing any politics into this. I will stop posting for a bit.