Reminder of what these towers would look like in relation to our skyline. There would actually be a 4th tower to the south.

Also, look how well-positioned the old Cox site is for a new arena and entertainment district.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul070821bx.jpg

You are correct in the old Cox site. I also think there are several street level lots in main Bricktown that are also ripe for development with one of them turning into a parking garage. The lot just outside the outfield of the stadium should also develop into a parking garage and finally, I am not sure what the ticket numbers are for Harkins but if that were to ever get torn down, that would make a massive residential development that would greatly impact the area just like this development will.

Reminder of what these towers would look like in relation to our skyline. There would actually be a 4th tower to the south.

Also, look how well-positioned the old Cox site is for a new arena and entertainment district.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uhaul070821bx.jpg

Any chance the canal gets extended through the Cox site to connect to the new arena and entertainment district?

Any chance the canal gets extended through the Cox site to connect to the new arena and entertainment district?

Digging a canal under the railroad? Never going to happen.

Digging a canal under the railroad? Never going to happen.

The groundwork for this exists.

The groundwork for this exists.

BNSF didn't want any new tunnel ..... they will not want a canal ..

You are correct in the old Cox site. I also think there are several street level lots in main Bricktown that are also ripe for development with one of them turning into a parking garage. The lot just outside the outfield of the stadium should also develop into a parking garage and finally, I am not sure what the ticket numbers are for Harkins but if that were to ever get torn down, that would make a massive residential development that would greatly impact the area just like this development will.

I doubt the Harkins is going anywhere anytime soon. This new residential development will only increase their numbers.

You are correct in the old Cox site. I also think there are several street level lots in main Bricktown that are also ripe for development with one of them turning into a parking garage. The lot just outside the outfield of the stadium should also develop into a parking garage and finally, I am not sure what the ticket numbers are for Harkins but if that were to ever get torn down, that would make a massive residential development that would greatly impact the area just like this development will.

There's perfectly good land immediately south of OKC Boulevard and the Uhaul site that I would prefer to see developed instead of the only movie theatre within walking distance for the most dense part of the city.

I doubt the Harkins is going anywhere anytime soon. This new residential development will only increase their numbers.

Very possibly true, just know movie numbers have gone down significantly since Covid and movies are showing up faster through various platforms that would previously be seen in the theatre.

The groundwork for this exists.

It is never in a million years going to happen.

1. Crazy thing about the last pictures Pete shared is I believe those are for the old rendering so those are possibly only 2 thirds of the height the new renderings will show(still great pic)
2. I don’t think Paycom will get torn down if the Olympics come to OKC that will attract other word event that may require two arenas. Or summer league or all star weekend... Paycom can still be used to house a minor league hockey team and the OKC BLUE
3. If the Olympics do come to OKC I’ll bet you atleast 2 more hotels to kick off the start the co op
4. Maybe just maybe strawberry fields open a hotel or two and then..ford site maybe a condo..same for the ballpark lot
5. I think the best place for an extension of the canal is the CO OP property probably the cheapest and what goes in there could be bigger than boardwalk.

If the Olympics events are hosted here I can realistically see up to 10 high rises(15-25 stories) being built before then

1. Crazy thing about the last pictures Pete shared is I believe those are for the old rendering so those are possibly only 2 thirds of the height the new renderings will show(still great pic)
2. I don’t think Paycom will get torn down if the Olympics come to OKC that will attract other word event that may require two arenas. Or summer league or all star weekend... Paycom can still be used to house a minor league hockey team and the OKC BLUE
3. If the Olympics do come to OKC I’ll bet you atleast 2 more hotels to kick off the start the co op
4. Maybe just maybe strawberry fields open a hotel or two and then..ford site maybe a condo..same for the ballpark lot
5. I think the best place for an extension of the canal is the CO OP property probably the cheapest and what goes in there could be bigger than boardwalk.

If the Olympics events are hosted here I can realistically see up to 10 high rises(15-25 stories) being built before then

Why? This is the only project with a high rise going.

1. Crazy thing about the last pictures Pete shared is I believe those are for the old rendering so those are possibly only 2 thirds of the height the new renderings will show(still great pic)
2. I don’t think Paycom will get torn down if the Olympics come to OKC that will attract other word event that may require two arenas. Or summer league or all star weekend... Paycom can still be used to house a minor league hockey team and the OKC BLUE
3. If the Olympics do come to OKC I’ll bet you atleast 2 more hotels to kick off the start the co op
4. Maybe just maybe strawberry fields open a hotel or two and then..ford site maybe a condo..same for the ballpark lot
5. I think the best place for an extension of the canal is the CO OP property probably the cheapest and what goes in there could be bigger than boardwalk.

If the Olympics events are hosted here I can realistically see up to 10 high rises(15-25 stories) being built before then
No one is going to touch the co-op site in our grandchildren’s lifetime., the brownfield contamination clean up costs alone were in the $100’s of millions ( I heard anyway) that industry did not have a history of environmental responsibility we should be glad it’s not still in operation making bricktown smell like a fart. Short of a angel invester with very deep pockets or a maps like initiative (which I’m open to considering the history of maps) it’s just going to continue as is

I doubt the Harkins is going anywhere anytime soon. This new residential development will only increase their numbers.

Residential next door may be a shot in the arm for them, but they've been on a downward slope for a long time. The company doesn't seem interested in investing in this location beyond maintaining it to a certain minimum. This location has been slated for improvements and upgrades multiple times only for them to be shoved back down to the bottom of the list. Other Harkins of similar size and age have seen recliner seats, bars, and additional food options added. Harkins Bricktown has seen their ticket prices drop to budget level while newer, better theatres have opened around them.

Harkins only came here back in the day because they were curious about expanding out of their home state of Arizona and the sweet deal offered after the collapse of Edwards Theatres made Bricktown a low risk way to try it out. They've since expended efforts expanding more in Colorado and California. They closed the one theatre they opened in Texas. My guess is they are more than ready to exit this market as soon as it makes sense, but that original sweet deal keeps them on just this side of "making sense".

Maybe if this development brings them higher attendance Harkins will provide more attention to this location, but I doubt it. Personally, I think best case scenario is Harkins chooses to leave the market and a better exhibitor more dedicated to this location and market moves in and runs things.

^Wow I had not realized Harkins tickets had gotten so cheap. Just looked and it is $7.50 for primetime Friday and Saturday timeslots. It looks like they are making up for it on concessions, though.

I remember when Tinseltown was always the best bang-for-buck, but they are near $10 for a ticket. However, it is nicer than Harkins.

^Wow I had not realized Harkins tickets had gotten so cheap. Just looked and it is $7.50 for primetime Friday and Saturday timeslots. It looks like they are making up for it on concessions, though.

I remember when Tinseltown was always the best bang-for-buck, but they are near $10 for a ticket. However, it is nicer than Harkins.

The baseline concession prices are expensive, but Harkins does have easily the best concessions rewards program I've ever seen in a movie theatre. Buy a loyalty cup for $8 and get $2 refills for the rest of the year. Pay $30 to get a free medium popcorn every time you buy a movie ticket for the next year. I truly have no idea how this theatre stays in business, but my best guess is that they have a really good deal with the city so that there isn't a giant empty building overlooking the Canal. I'm taking advantage of it for as long as they are here, but I do expect that they will eventually close up shop.

Why? This is the only project with a high rise going.

And all three residential towers won't be built at once. They will be built one at a time at a pace demand allows.

And all three residential towers won't be built at once. They will be built one at a time at a pace demand allows.

2 of the residential and the hotel will be under construction at the same time .. and residential 3 will start when 1 ends ..

Think the first two towers will be built simultaneously and then the third as demand dictates.

The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
The red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the white zone.

please please PLEASE can this thread NOT be hijacked by another TIF argument...

I mean.. sure.. but it isn't nothing that they're adding 900 residences, perhaps a lot of new students for OKCPS and using the money which OKPCS would have received for their ad valorem collection to benefit a property development which likely would have been profitable without 37% of their investment being free money from the taxpayers.

Any time we're talking about a development using TIF, this should be a major topic of discussion.

I mean.. sure.. but it isn't nothing that they're adding 900 residences, perhaps a lot of new students for OKCPS and using the money which OKPCS would have received for their ad valorem collection to benefit a property development which likely would have been profitable without 37% of their investment being free money from the taxpayers.

Any time we're talking about a development using TIF, this should be a major topic of discussion.

Yeah, Cool, then start a TIF thread and don't hijack this one.

2 of the residential and the hotel will be under construction at the same time .. and residential 3 will start when 1 ends ..

The residential towers are in three phases, they are slated to start one year after the previous phase, but I can tell you that is what the very best case that developer hopes for and phases two and three will start as demand allows. What is the current absorption rate in Oklahoma City for premium high rise apartments? Is there a precedent that shows the market can take on 300+ units per year?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg

The residential towers are in three phases, they are slated to start one year after the previous phase, but I can tell you that is what the very best case that developer hopes for and phases two and three will start as demand allows. What is the current absorption rate in Oklahoma City for premium high rise apartments? Is there a precedent that shows the market can take on 300+ units per year?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg
Is this from their application or do you have access to their internal planning documents? It seems as Pete indicated towers 1 & 2 will be built at same time with hotel commencing shortly behind their start. Have they changed or is tour chart speculation?

The residential towers are in three phases, they are slated to start one year after the previous phase, but I can tell you that is what the very best case that developer hopes for and phases two and three will start as demand allows. What is the current absorption rate in Oklahoma City for premium high rise apartments? Is there a precedent that shows the market can take on 300+ units per year?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg

There is only one premium high-rise residential tower in OKC. So really no precedent.

The residential towers are in three phases, they are slated to start one year after the previous phase, but I can tell you that is what the very best case that developer hopes for and phases two and three will start as demand allows. What is the current absorption rate in Oklahoma City for premium high rise apartments? Is there a precedent that shows the market can take on 300+ units per year?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg

seeing as there is currently a huge housing crisis in oklahoma city, gonna go out on a limb here and say any new housing in the core is good housing

The residential towers are in three phases, they are slated to start one year after the previous phase, but I can tell you that is what the very best case that developer hopes for and phases two and three will start as demand allows. What is the current absorption rate in Oklahoma City for premium high rise apartments? Is there a precedent that shows the market can take on 300+ units per year?

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723j.jpg
Looking at what you are promoting, it seems they couldn’t possibly be waiting for tower one to be leased before tower two is committed to. They will be quite a ways from opening one when two commences. Some pre-leasing will occur, but it won’t really pick up substantially until it is near finished and then finished. Leased towers aren’t fully leased at original opening.

Looking at what you are promoting, it seems they couldn’t possibly be waiting for tower one to be leased before tower two is committed to. They will be quite a ways from opening one when two commences. Some pre-leasing will occur, but it won’t really pick up substantially until it is near finished and then finished. Leased towers aren’t fully leased at original opening.

yep this was my point also ..

Is this from their application or do you have access to their internal planning documents? It seems as Pete indicated towers 1 & 2 will be built at same time with hotel commencing shortly behind their start. Have they changed or is tour chart speculation?
Rover, that document was part of the presentation that was made publicly available. There is a link a page or two back.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/boardwalk070723l.jpg
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Just saw this (I know, a week later...). What is the highest rent in price per square foot in the OKC metro? Does anyone know? I feel like above $3/sf is pretty high. Looks like FNC is over $3/sf and it at about 2/3 occupancy.

The First National apartments?

The First National apartments?

Yeah, I edited that after I submitted it.

I mean.. sure.. but it isn't nothing that they're adding 900 residences, perhaps a lot of new students for OKCPS and using the money which OKPCS would have received for their ad valorem collection to benefit a property development which likely would have been profitable without 37% of their investment being free money from the taxpayers.

Any time we're talking about a development using TIF, this should be a major topic of discussion.

Dont forget the fact that while the TIF is in use, they'll gladly accept a high taxable assessed value so they can get bigger and faster TIF rebates but as soon as the TIF runs out and they are responsible for the ad valorem, you see them quickly come in a protest the valuation and get it lowered as much as they can. Amazing that with all the positive growth for OKC, the TIF asks keep getting bigger in amount and bigger in % of the project.

West Village is over $3/sf.
The Montgomery was right at $2/sf
Classen 16 is just over $2/sf
Lift is around $2.25/sf
Maywood apartments are $2.10/sf

I guess apartment prices are a lot higher than I thought they were.

Ryan, you are wrong about the co-op site. There are already plans that have been revealed to a select group of local business leaders and I saw them with my own eyes. I was not able to take pictures of the co-op site plans, but there is a large group of commercial/residential investors that have come together and are going to develop the area.

Ryan, you are wrong about the co-op site. There are already plans that have been revealed to a select group of local business leaders and I saw them with my own eyes. I was not able to take pictures of the co-op site plans, but there is a large group of commercial/residential investors that have come together and are going to develop the area.

And they’ve covered the brownfield contamination costs?i mean it would be great. It’s only a footprint of rhe lower 25% or downtown. I’d love to be wrong. Like let’s vacation with each others families and the whole nine if you’re right but I have some serious doubts about what you’re saying..

And they’ve covered the brownfield contamination costs?i mean it would be great. It’s only a footprint of rhe lower 25% or downtown. I’d love to be wrong. Like let’s vacation with each others families and the whole nine if you’re right but I have some serious doubts about what you’re saying..

You may not see construction for 5 to 7 years but this has advanced much further than you imagine. I would design the layout and density differently but there are real players at the table.

You may not see construction for 5 to 7 years but this has advanced much further than you imagine. I would design the layout and density differently but there are real players at the table.

If it is suburban in nature, I'd prefer it wait and lay dormant. This needs to be among the most dense parts of downtown.

You may not see construction for 5 to 7 years but this has advanced much further than you imagine. I would design the layout and density differently but there are real players at the table.

What did you see on the layout that you didn't like?

What did you see on the layout that you didn't like?

I think (and hope) he's talking about the CoOp lot. Construction on The Boardwalk is supposed to start next year, and it's anything but suburban in nature.

I know the stadium is probably going to OKANA but I think the CO OP site with surrounding development is the best place for it much easier access to brick town and they would have to do some serious road and infrastructure work to support OKANA and an additional 10-20k fans for an event.. OKANA will still be good site but not my favorite…if the site is contaminated isn’t that public record?

It becomes super confusing when threads on specific projects are dragged into tangents and it isn't clear who is talking about what. There are specific threads for the COOP site, Okana, etc.

Exactly! I was looking for info on the thread subject and everything I hadn’t read was about the Coop and Okana. Let’s get it straightened back out and on track.

Details emerge on $736M mixed-use development in downtown OKC
By: Kathryn McNutt//The Journal Record//August 1, 2023

OKLAHOMA CITY – Construction should begin next summer on a $736 million urban infill project that will include more than 900 apartments, a hotel, multiple commercial spaces and plenty of public parking – all on three-quarters of one block.

The developer and Joanna McSpadden, the city’s economic development program manager, presented details of The Boardwalk at Bricktown to the Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday. The council will vote Aug. 15 on a $200 million tax increment finance incentive for the project.

“We’ve been working on this for about a year,” McSpadden said. “This is a project that will change our skyline and bring new energy to Bricktown.”

The project site at the southwest corner of Bricktown lies within one of the new downtown TIF districts approved four months ago.

“The density and verticality, coupled with inflation and higher borrowing costs, are going to make this project incredibly difficult and expensive to accomplish,” McSpadden told the council. “Without substantial help, it won’t happen.”

The proposed package would provide 90% of the ad valorem tax generated by the development over the 25-year life of the TIF with a cap at $200 million, as well as reimbursement of sales tax and use tax generated during construction capped at $5.5 million. She said the developer plans to apply for Leverage Act funding, which potentially could match that $5.5 million with state funds.

“We are not taking on any debt or providing any funding upfront,” McSpadden said, noting the incentive is funded entirely from taxes generated by the project, and the developer would receive the funds only if the project is completed and begins operation.

The development is estimated to cost more than $736 million, but the incentives are based on $550 million, which is the total less the hotel and related components. The project lies in the no-subsidy zone under an agreement with Omni Oklahoma City Hotel that prohibits tax incentives for any other hotel for 15 years.

Developer Scot Matteson, managing partner and CEO of Matteson Capital, has developed properties in California, Colorado, Texas, Florida and Italy that include high-rise condos, resorts, office buildings and 17 million square feet on 10 city blocks in Miami, which he said is just winding down after 15 years.

The Bricktown project build is expected to begin next summer with the first phase completed in about two years, followed by two more phases that could take up to six years to finish.

“We’re very bullish on Oklahoma City. We think you have all the core ingredients to match those in LA and other larger cities that have accomplished these developments,” said Joanne Carras, financial adviser to Matteson Capital.

“It’s only 4 acres but it’s 2 million square feet,” Carras said. “This is four times the size of your convention center. We’re just going vertical instead of horizontal.”

Three apartment towers will provide 924 units, and a Hyatt Dream Hotel will offer 348 rooms. In addition to the parking for those residents and guests, the development will include 890 public parking spaces, five restaurants, rooftop bars and entertainment venues.

Carras said the project will bring 1,800 new jobs to Oklahoma City – half of them permanent jobs and half long-term construction and design jobs.

The development will include 132 units of workforce housing and a 2,000-square-foot workforce development center in partnership with the nonprofit Aspiring Anew Generation. Carras said workforce training will be available to the entire community.

In other locations with the program, residents generally exit the housing after two years to make way for others to come in, Carras said. The rent will be about $1,800 per month for a two-bedroom apartment, based on U.S. Housing and Urban Development figures.

The other apartments will lease at market rate comparable to The First Residences at First National, she said. Two-bedroom apartments there begin at about $3,900 per month.

Details emerge on $736M mixed-use development in downtown OKC
By: Kathryn McNutt//The Journal Record//August 1, 2023

OKLAHOMA CITY – Construction should begin next summer on a $736 million urban infill project that will include more than 900 apartments, a hotel, multiple commercial spaces and plenty of public parking – all on three-quarters of one block.

The developer and Joanna McSpadden, the city’s economic development program manager, presented details of The Boardwalk at Bricktown to the Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday. The council will vote Aug. 15 on a $200 million tax increment finance incentive for the project.

“We’ve been working on this for about a year,” McSpadden said. “This is a project that will change our skyline and bring new energy to Bricktown.”

The project site at the southwest corner of Bricktown lies within one of the new downtown TIF districts approved four months ago.

“The density and verticality, coupled with inflation and higher borrowing costs, are going to make this project incredibly difficult and expensive to accomplish,” McSpadden told the council. “Without substantial help, it won’t happen.”

The proposed package would provide 90% of the ad valorem tax generated by the development over the 25-year life of the TIF with a cap at $200 million, as well as reimbursement of sales tax and use tax generated during construction capped at $5.5 million. She said the developer plans to apply for Leverage Act funding, which potentially could match that $5.5 million with state funds.

“We are not taking on any debt or providing any funding upfront,” McSpadden said, noting the incentive is funded entirely from taxes generated by the project, and the developer would receive the funds only if the project is completed and begins operation.

The development is estimated to cost more than $736 million, but the incentives are based on $550 million, which is the total less the hotel and related components. The project lies in the no-subsidy zone under an agreement with Omni Oklahoma City Hotel that prohibits tax incentives for any other hotel for 15 years.

Developer Scot Matteson, managing partner and CEO of Matteson Capital, has developed properties in California, Colorado, Texas, Florida and Italy that include high-rise condos, resorts, office buildings and 17 million square feet on 10 city blocks in Miami, which he said is just winding down after 15 years.

The Bricktown project build is expected to begin next summer with the first phase completed in about two years, followed by two more phases that could take up to six years to finish.

“We’re very bullish on Oklahoma City. We think you have all the core ingredients to match those in LA and other larger cities that have accomplished these developments,” said Joanne Carras, financial adviser to Matteson Capital.

“It’s only 4 acres but it’s 2 million square feet,” Carras said. “This is four times the size of your convention center. We’re just going vertical instead of horizontal.”

Three apartment towers will provide 924 units, and a Hyatt Dream Hotel will offer 348 rooms. In addition to the parking for those residents and guests, the development will include 890 public parking spaces, five restaurants, rooftop bars and entertainment venues.

Carras said the project will bring 1,800 new jobs to Oklahoma City – half of them permanent jobs and half long-term construction and design jobs.

The development will include 132 units of workforce housing and a 2,000-square-foot workforce development center in partnership with the nonprofit Aspiring Anew Generation. Carras said workforce training will be available to the entire community.

In other locations with the program, residents generally exit the housing after two years to make way for others to come in, Carras said. The rent will be about $1,800 per month for a two-bedroom apartment, based on U.S. Housing and Urban Development figures.

The other apartments will lease at market rate comparable to The First Residences at First National, she said. Two-bedroom apartments there begin at about $3,900 per month.

Excited to see this come out of the ground. They are correct, this will inject significant energy into Bricktown and Downtown.

Between this, OKANA, the new arena, and dozens of other projects there's so much going on in this city!

Sounds like this is ready to go. Likely will see true design in a couple weeks. I was mind blown when I saw $1800 for a 2 bedroom, before realizing that is for the workforce program. I really wish they would do some for sale units in at least one of the towers. $3900 per month for 2 bedrooms is not an easy sell right now. I believe The First is around 3/5 full on the apartments with comparable rates (although it has only been just over a year since open).

Sounds like this is ready to go. Likely will see true design in a couple weeks. I was mind blown when I saw $1800 for a 2 bedroom, before realizing that is for the workforce program. I really wish they would do some for sale units in at least one of the towers. $3900 per month for 2 bedrooms is not an easy sell right now. I believe The First is around 3/5 full on the apartments with comparable rates (although it has only been just over a year since open).

Yeah, when I dug into a few weeks ago, FNC was at about 2/3 full and the price per sf is about the same. Will be a little bit of a different market being in bricktown versus middle of downtown, but not by much.

Still don't understand why they haven't presented detailed renderings. Looks like this will pass on August 15th for TIF without renderings. Which means we probably won't see any detailed renderings until they go back to the Planning Commission. So that could be early next year, if they don't plan to break ground until next summer, SMH.

Still don't understand why they haven't presented detailed renderings. Looks like this will pass on August 15th for TIF without renderings. Which means we probably won't see any detailed renderings until they go back to the Planning Commission. So that could be early next year, if they don't plan to break ground until next summer, SMH.

I don't know the typical process here, but it strikes me as weird that the Council would approve $200M in TIF awards without seeing detailed renderings of what is actually being proposed. Unless that's been shared internally. They're not the Planning Commission, of course, but I'd still think the Council would want to know the design of what they're approving the money for.

Before they can do anything, they would need design approval.

I suspect we'll see detailed renderings before the end of the year.

I don't know the typical process here, but it strikes me as weird that the Council would approve $200M in TIF awards without seeing detailed renderings of what is actually being proposed. Unless that's been shared internally. They're not the Planning Commission, of course, but I'd still think the Council would want to know the design of what they're approving the money for.

that is very very normal .. in the process ..

the planning commission also (depending on existing zoning ) will not see detailed renderings ..

the Dowtown design review committee would see detailed renderings ..

A $200MM TIF package. Jeez.. I can't remember reading about a development in OKC happening without our schools paying for a big chunk of the development. We want to whine about insufficient money for education, but we want to pass out free ad valorem money to developers.. we probably can't have it both ways.

A $200MM TIF package. Jeez.. I can't remember reading about a development in OKC happening without our schools paying for a big chunk of the development. We want to whine about insufficient money for education, but we want to pass out free ad valorem money to developers.. we probably can't have it both ways.

the empty lot and this new development will give the same amount of money to schools for the next 25 years ..

with out the TIF this will stay as an empty parking lot (as it has for the last 25 years ..

the empty lot and this new development will give the same amount of money to schools for the next 25 years ..

with out the TIF this will stay as an empty parking lot (as it has for the last 25 years ..

This is not true.

Downtown properties appreciate greatly over 25 years, even if there is no new construction.

This is not true.

Downtown properties appreciate greatly over 25 years, even if there is no new construction.

point taken ..

If this goes through, hello downtown grocery store?

There is a very real possibility that these guys don't make a ton of money if they struggle to get tenants in the first 10 years. Obviously if they get to 85% capacity in the first several years and maintain that for several decades they'll be fine.

It sucks we won't be able to hold their feet to the fire on the Hotel, but that seems likely to be the bigger money maker.

A $200MM TIF package. Jeez.. I can't remember reading about a development in OKC happening without our schools paying for a big chunk of the development. We want to whine about insufficient money for education, but we want to pass out free ad valorem money to developers.. we probably can't have it both ways.

If "we" really had any say in the matter, I suspect not as much free money would go to developers, but "we" aren't giving out free money, it's "them" that are making the decisions for "us".

If "we" really had any say in the matter, I suspect not as much free money would go to developers, but "we" aren't giving out free money, it's "them" that are making the decisions for "us".

"We" elect people who hire "them," so if "we" don't like it, "we" could do a better job electing people who didn't approve every single TIF application that came across their desk.