I have noticed that anytime there is precipitation, the location of I-44 and Pennsylvania is a magnet for accidents involving tractor-trailers. Is there something that the DOT can do to curb this problem? Has DOT performed a study counting the number of accidents involving tractor-trailers at this location? Is it too much to ask DOT to look into this issue?

I would like to see DOT erect warning signs and flashing signals much like what is in place at Tinker Diagonal and Air Depot. To my knowledge, there hasn't been many accidents on Tinker Diagonal at Air Depot involving tractor-trailers after the installation of the warning signs and flashing signals.

I have lived very close to there for about five years now, and I have lost track of the number of accidents I have seen semis have on that exact spot.

There definitely needs to be additional warning signs of some sort.

The turn from I-44 NB/EB to the east, merging with 39th, also attracts a lot of crashing semis... not sure why this stretch does that. I would guess that ODOT is pushing off making bigger changes because they're trying to get studying for a full roadway overhaul of the entire Belle Isle stretch of I-44.

It seems that elevated highways are always problematic in lots of ways.

Looks like another one tonight/Friday that has closed I-44, but the accident is closer to May Ave.

It seems that elevated highways are always problematic in lots of ways.
Pete, one of my thoughts on this is the multiple exits via left lane and then the exits from the right lane, cause lots of people to do a lot of lane changing to be in the correct lane. I've had people suddenly cross in front of me, then hit their brakes to make an exit. Large trucks simply cannot stop or slow down on a dime when a small car or other vehicle suddenly changes lanes into your lane then hits the brakes. I wish they would rebuild the entire area to have consistent exits and to also get rid of that elevated section with the curves. Horrible when it ices up.

Pete, one of my thoughts on this is the multiple exits via left lane and then the exits from the right lane, cause lots of people to do a lot of lane changing to be in the correct lane. I've had people suddenly cross in front of me, then hit their brakes to make an exit. Large trucks simply cannot stop or slow down on a dime when a small car or other vehicle suddenly changes lanes into your lane then hits the brakes. I wish they would rebuild the entire area to have consistent exits and to also get rid of that elevated section with the curves. Horrible when it ices up.

Even heavy rain seems to bog down this area worse than the rest of the freeways, though again that probably is compounded by the issue of having multiple entrances/exits on both sides of the road somewhat near each other.

I would not expect that entrances and exits on the left side and right side is this issue for many of these accidents, all of the ones I am familiar with that happened at 44 and Penn were on EB 44, and there are only right side ramps along that stretch of the interstate until you get all the way past Western.

The walkable environment below and around this area is horrendous. That belle isle / penn square area is a cluster for pedestrians

#Facts

Why do we accept this?

And yet another this afternoon. I did not realize how many wrecks happen in this area, it's not a section of I-44 I take too often. Today the semi had a fire as well.

And yet another this afternoon. I did not realize how many wrecks happen in this area, it's not a section of I-44 I take too often. Today the semi had a fire as well.

Another.

https://www.koco.com/article/semi-truck-crash-causes-ramps-lane-on-i-44-to-be-closed-in-oklahoma-city/36641057

Another.

https://www.koco.com/article/semi-truck-crash-causes-ramps-lane-on-i-44-to-be-closed-in-oklahoma-city/36641057

For once that is somewhat further along 44, it's far closer to NW Expressway than Penn.

https://goo.gl/maps/xvbRWtDjSSDW8svd9 is the best approximation I could come up with for the location on Google Maps matching the picture in the article. Driver tried his best to go down the hill into the drainage culvert.

Another semi crash which resulted in a trailer full of meat catching fire over the holiday weekend. There was a sudden splash and dash downpour in the area that was probably the cause of the accident.

https://www.news9.com/story/62c2264e6d75b5070b71f6bf/semi-fire-causes-traffic-issues-on-i44-near-penn

This is purely anecdotal but it seems like OKC has really poor drainage in many parts of the city. It doesn’t take much rain to overload the drainage system. I haven’t noticed that as much in other cities.

This is purely anecdotal but it seems like OKC has really poor drainage in many parts of the city. It doesn’t take much rain to overload the drainage system. I haven’t noticed that as much in other cities.

FWIW there was hardly any rain—maybe a few hundedths of an inch. If rain played a role it was almost certainly because it hadn't rained in nearly a month and a quick shower made the roads very slick with accumulated oil, etc., not because of flooding.

I saw the smoke plume go up from my living room window. It was very large and dramatic for a time.

Going eastbound there is no tilt in the highway so you're going full speed around a curve where the gravity keeps the weight naturally moving forward. ODOT needed to create a slight embankment on the curve. That would solve a lot of problems. I noticed a lot of that when I moved here 25 years ago. Same problem with the I-40 Tinker curve, same problem at the I-35/I-40 junction going over the river on the east part of the interchange. Quite frankly when they spent millions on that interchange with all those new ramps, it was absolutely absurd they didn't straighten that out. Sure it would have made a much longer bridge, but it would have taken out that crappy curve.

Back to the Belle Isle, I don't think there is really anything on the docket for improvements is there? The left exits there are out of the old highway manual meaning new interstate standards do not allow for left exits because it causes unnecessary dangerous maneuvers. Personally I can't tell you how many times I've seen people bolt from the right lane almost straight across traffic to catch that left exit for NW Expressway. Same with EB there with cars coming off of Classen trying to dart across all the way to the right to hit the 77 exit.

^

Yes, curves in that area are very much like cloverleaves, but with no banking and vehicles traveling at very high speed.

It all adds up to inertia which is very hard to stop when something goes wrong.

I would think surface and weather sensors tied to flashing/changing speed limit signs could be a "relatively" cheap alternative until there is a rebuild.

Going eastbound there is no tilt in the highway so you're going full speed around a curve where the gravity keeps the weight naturally moving forward. ODOT needed to create a slight embankment on the curve. That would solve a lot of problems. I noticed a lot of that when I moved here 25 years ago. Same problem with the I-40 Tinker curve, same problem at the I-35/I-40 junction going over the river on the east part of the interchange. Quite frankly when they spent millions on that interchange with all those new ramps, it was absolutely absurd they didn't straighten that out. Sure it would have made a much longer bridge, but it would have taken out that crappy curve.

Back to the Belle Isle, I don't think there is really anything on the docket for improvements is there? The left exits there are out of the old highway manual meaning new interstate standards do not allow for left exits because it causes unnecessary dangerous maneuvers. Personally I can't tell you how many times I've seen people bolt from the right lane almost straight across traffic to catch that left exit for NW Expressway. Same with EB there with cars coming off of Classen trying to dart across all the way to the right to hit the 77 exit.

ODOT's 8 year plan has something in there for pavement rehabilitation for the stretch from Deadman's Curve east to I-235 in FFY2028. That part has already been retrofitted with dowel bars and at least one diamond grinding. Asphalt overlay??

IIRC, they just did a study on that stretch last year. I'll see if I can dig up the link.

Going eastbound there is no tilt in the highway so you're going full speed around a curve where the gravity keeps the weight naturally moving forward. ODOT needed to create a slight embankment on the curve. That would solve a lot of problems. I noticed a lot of that when I moved here 25 years ago. Same problem with the I-40 Tinker curve, same problem at the I-35/I-40 junction going over the river on the east part of the interchange. Quite frankly when they spent millions on that interchange with all those new ramps, it was absolutely absurd they didn't straighten that out. Sure it would have made a much longer bridge, but it would have taken out that crappy curve.

Back to the Belle Isle, I don't think there is really anything on the docket for improvements is there? The left exits there are out of the old highway manual meaning new interstate standards do not allow for left exits because it causes unnecessary dangerous maneuvers. Personally I can't tell you how many times I've seen people bolt from the right lane almost straight across traffic to catch that left exit for NW Expressway. Same with EB there with cars coming off of Classen trying to dart across all the way to the right to hit the 77 exit.

There have at least been some studies done about removing the Belle Isle bridge/ I'm not aware of any definite plans approved to do that, however.

https://www.newson6.com/story/5e34b12f527dcf49dad8c947/odot-explores-options-for-removing-belle-isle-bridge

Another rain storm, another tractor-trailer accident.

Two escape injury after semi truck cab goes over highway bridge (https://kfor.com/news/local/two-escape-injury-after-semi-truck-cab-goes-over-highway-bridge/)

^

The curves are far too tight for interstate traffic and speeds.

There is also a close cluster of on- and off-ramps in that area which makes it even more dangerous.

Same happens in MWC at Air Depot. Far too sharp of a curve for interstate speeds. There, they put up a massive sign with flashing lights and honestly, it does seem to have reduced the number of people slamming in to the divider wall. Maybe something similar should be put in here?

I've been telling people for many years to stay off of what I call the Bell Isle Bridge.

It has been dangerous ever since it's been put in service.

I refuse to drive on it in inclement weather, I just get off of I-44 nearby and take the city surface streets around.

It really makes you wonder how and why a highway component is designed and built to such horrible standards. In fact I think it should be criminal.

Apart from way too many on/off ramps spaced closely together, you also have a left-lane WB exit onto NW Expressway and very nearby a left-lane EB entrance from Classen. So, on top of everything else, you have cars and trucks trying to quickly cut across traffic lanes in that small area.

There is the elevation which causes icing, multiple curves, too many entrances and exits, and then those two left-lane situations plus very heavy traffic.


I live nearby so I travel that stretch frequently and it can be very harrowing.

Also, because there are two on-ramps merging, trying to exit WB on Penn is far more dangerous than it should be.

Even if you are in the right lane trying to exit, there are two on-ramps that merge (one from SB NW Expressway and another from Penn Square/Belle Isle Station) you can't see the traffic flowing into the exit lane because it comes up from behind you. Same if you are using that Penn Square on-ramp because you have the yield but can't see the traffic coming from NW Expressway.

The whole thing is an absolute cluster and it's the only place in OKC that I hate driving. All it takes is one idiot driver and you can easily have a massive and deadly pile-up.

Below, the green arrows show entrances and red represents exits.

Just an insane number for 1.5 miles of interstate highway, especially with the curves thrown in.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/44051623a.jpg

^ Cannot believe all that adheres to interstate design standards, insane. I haven't driven on that stretch for decades, pretty much because it's so crazy.

ODOT is very aware of all of this and will fix it in the coming decade or so. It won’t be cheap. It’s amazing traffic engineers even back then built such a horrible designed roadway.

I believe the Arroyo Seco Parkway was one of the first urban freeways ever built and it seems like even it has less issues than I-44 Belle Isle Bridge.

^ Cannot believe all that adheres to interstate design standards, insane.
I don’t know what the interstate standards are exactly off the back of my hand but I’m fairly certain this doesn’t come anywhere close to meeting interstate standards.

Yeah but it was built way back in the 50s or 60s wasn't it? Standards change. I-40 was proper when it was built, but of course it exceeded its capacity and current standards.

I dont disagree that the road sucks, but we aren't getting rid of the curves or the elevations without spending an INSANE amount of money. And this is after they just dumped quite a bit into it for repairs and making sure it doesnt topple over.

If i'm picking between this and the 40-44 junction, i'm picking the junction though. Getting 6 lanes on the N/S bound 44 (E/W, whatever you want to call it) will do wonders. Even if they dont do anthing other than figure out to make that flow work better, it will be wonderful. Honestly 44 needs another 2 lanes in each direction from the Hefner Parkway down to 240. But you're talking a whoooooole lotta cash to take the land for that one.

Apart from way too many on/off ramps spaced closely together, you also have a left-lane WB exit onto NW Expressway and very nearby a left-lane EB entrance from Classen. So, on top of everything else, you have cars and trucks trying to quickly cut across traffic lanes in that small area.

There is the elevation which causes icing, multiple curves, too many entrances and exits, and then those two left-lane situations plus very heavy traffic.


I live nearby so I travel that stretch frequently and it can be very harrowing.

Agreed. I take westbound I-44 home from work every day now and it never ceased to amaze me the amount of people who are going 40 mph in the fast lane because they need to exit on Classen or NW Expressway. I really wish they would close the NWE exit as the intersection at NWE and Belle Isle Blvd is arguably one of the most dangerous intersections in the city. There have been studies on the number of wrecks there and it is usually people trying to get into the mall from NWE that have to merge with the off ramp people from I-44. Also, the light there is terrible and people run it all the time.

Yeah but it was built way back in the 50s or 60s wasn't it? Standards change. I-40 was proper when it was built, but of course it exceeded its capacity and current standards.
I believe that section was done in the seventies, but your point still stands.

If you think this is bad you should see some of the other urban interstates around the country. Slowing down helps.

If you think this is bad you should see some of the other urban interstates around the country. Slowing down helps.

Yes, because you're the only one that has been to another city.

Yes, because you're the only one that has been to another city.

Allow me to rephrase my comment.

This situation isn't unique to OKC and ODOT. Poorly designed freeway segments are everywhere.

Allow me to rephrase my comment.

This situation isn't unique to OKC and ODOT. Poorly designed freeway segments are everywhere.

The area from 66 to i235 has one of the more convoluted history of our local freeways. In an already heavily developed area, was one of the more iteratively modified routes (if not the most) that became a freeway (where most even if happened in phases was part of one long term plan), and had to deal with some problems that are not apparent today. Like the area where it is a bridge for one mile was originally constructed over a lake

Largely only even viable without demolishing neighborhoods due to the city had started the process of having a "Grand Boulevard" around the city, before freeways had started being built. Plus if you ever wonder why you have to basically take an exit main roadways multiple times to stay on 44, it was not really planned/funded to be constructed as a primary route, it was separate projects later identified as a plausible long distance route.

For all if its problems, I-44 from US66 to I-35 is the most visibly interesting in the entire metro.

ODOT is very aware of all of this and will fix it in the coming decade or so. It won’t be cheap. It’s amazing traffic engineers even back then built such a horrible designed roadway.

I believe the Arroyo Seco Parkway was one of the first urban freeways ever built and it seems like even it has less issues than I-44 Belle Isle Bridge.

Is anything related to this on the eight year plan? If were lucky, they may have something related to Right of way or utility relocation 10 years from now.

For all if its problems, I-44 from US66 to I-35 is the most visibly interesting in the entire metro.

This part especially. The city has a secondary skyline and this happens to be the one interstate road that connects to it, much less run through it.

A jackknifed semi spills fuel and busts up the concrete barrier in yesterdays rainfall.

Jackknifed Semi Slows Traffic on I-44 (https://kfor.com/news/local/jackknifed-semi-slows-traffic-on-i-44/)

Another semi wreck here this morning.

Someone should really install a camera on this stretch of highway and make a montage of all the wrecks, a la the infamous 11'8" bridge in Durham, NC.

https://11foot8.com/

Precipitation + speeding tractor-trailer + I-44 & Penn = nightmare traffic backup. It's amazing how ODOT ignores this frustrating equation.

Precipitation + speeding tractor-trailer + I-44 & Penn = nightmare traffic backup. It's amazing how ODOT ignores this frustrating equation.
They’re not ignoring it. They work with a limited budget. Short of banning tractor trailers through this stretch what can realistically be done right now? You could try to aggressively ramp up speeding enforcement during wet conditions I guess.

Mind you ODOT is very aware about this issue but it will be a very expensive project. We’ll definitely have solid details about it before 2030 and optimistically it could start later this decade but so far it isn’t even on the 8 year plan.

What about the thousands of semis that travel that stretch of I44 that don't wreck. Maybe it's just some bad drivers that do. How about put up some signage like they have on that stretch of I40 by Tinker. I think that curve is way more dangerous.

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What about the thousands of semis that travel that stretch of I44 that don't wreck. Maybe it's just some bad drivers that do. How about put up some signage like they have on that stretch of I40 by Tinker. I think that curve is way more dangerous.

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Adding some signage like this seems like a good idea, at the very least it couldn't hurt.

Adding some signage like this seems like a good idea, at the very least it couldn't hurt.

It could hurt, this kind of speed change can contribute to how quickly the road backs up, which would increase the amount of wreaks on the main line.

Does it do that on I 40 where that signage is?

Adding some signage like this seems like a good idea, at the very least it couldn't hurt.

Yeah, it makes me think of the "wind corridors" on I-40 in New Mexico as you are entering the Rockies. There could be a stretch of signage and maybe a speed limit decrease? But, I'm just spitballing here as I'm no civil engineer.