66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

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very awesome map, is it considered public domain?

very awesome map, is it considered public domain?

Good question... this one is likely considered public domain, since it's the officially adopted "Scenic Byway" route:

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66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

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i posted it earlier but the way north to 39th was moved from classen/western to may in 1933

Good question... this one is likely considered public domain, since it's the officially adopted "Scenic Byway" route:

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Cool thanks. Thinking about an eventual social media post for the brewery...

I am very sad to see Mutts gone! They have the best fried pickles in the world!

I doubt they even use developers for this kind of crap, there's probably a stripmallsrus.com site that any idiot with money and no sense of civic responsibility or taste can download plans from...

There's literally storefronts vacant with a "for lease" sign on them two blocks away on the north side of 23rd right before Classen, and I'd bet there's more within a few blocks that I can't think of right now, there is absolutely no need for this crappy strip mall anywhere in the city, much less replacing the Mutt's building.

Tax laws make it easy to put a cheap one of these up, lease only a single spot or two, and still make money after tax breaks and depreciation.

Tax laws make it easy to put a cheap one of these up, lease only a single spot or two, and still make money after tax breaks and depreciation.

Please explain how you think that works.

Other than I've attended a couple of sales conferences for this sort of thing, try G-O-O-G-L-E if you really wanted to know.

Other than I've attended a couple of sales conferences for this sort of thing, try G-O-O-G-L-E if you really wanted to know.
If you are alluding to accelerated/bonus depreciation tax implications, it doesn’t make them profitable. It may help with cash flow the first year, but only if you have gains to offset. And, there is possible recapture with penalties if you sell too quickly. Remember, land costs are not depreciable and only some of the assets qualify... maybe 10% of the building, especially if it is only partially built out as you suggest.

I’m just curious if you are implying something else. I do cost segregation/forensic engineering for some clients.

This is going to come down because of demolition by neglect, went by on the way home from Homeland on Sat. The blue tarps on the roof are torn apart and exposing the holes in the roof, and with all the storms coming up this spring, the inside will be damaged probably beyond repair. And poof, just like that, we have a new crappy strip mall with absolutely no personality or historic character, yay, go capitalism...

Did this proposal go to the Urban Design Committee or were these meetings put on hold? I was planning on attending for this one but then covid happened. Would be curious to know how that meeting went if it did.

As far as the current building it is being neglected and you are correct that it will probably have to come down at this point. That doesn’t mean this trash strip mall proposal HAS to be the thing that replaces it. This is exactly where the UDC needs to step in.

Did this proposal go to the Urban Design Committee or were these meetings put on hold?

The demolition and plans to rebuild are still pending; have not been approved.

The demolition and plans to rebuild are still pending; have not been approved.

It looks like the demolition was approved, but the rebuilding was denied. Original minutes are at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6351&doctype=MINUTES, but here's the gist.


UDCA-20-00009, at 1400 NW 23rd St (NW 23rd Street Uptown). Consideration and possible action on an application by Robert Haggard for Fong Jordan, to: 1) Demolish existing building and site improvements; 2) Construct new building (variance required from maximum front yard setback requirement); 3) Construct parking lot; 4) Construct sidewalks; 5) Install lighting; 6) Install landscaping; and 7) Construct fences; and provide a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment regarding a variance from the maximum front yard setback regulation.

Applicant Robert Haggard commented on the project.

Property owner Fong Jordan commented on the project.

A quorum roll call was made at 3:23 p.m. with all members present.

Motion: Blatt/Guillory to approve items 1.a. and 1.b. of the application and deny items 2.a., 3.a., 4.a., 5.a., 6.a., 7.a., and 7.b.

Ayes: Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum
Nays: None

Action: APPROVED.

It looks like the demolition was approved, but the rebuilding was denied. Original minutes are at https://agenda.okc.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=6351&doctype=MINUTES, but here's the gist.


UDCA-20-00009, at 1400 NW 23rd St (NW 23rd Street Uptown). Consideration and possible action on an application by Robert Haggard for Fong Jordan, to: 1) Demolish existing building and site improvements; 2) Construct new building (variance required from maximum front yard setback requirement); 3) Construct parking lot; 4) Construct sidewalks; 5) Install lighting; 6) Install landscaping; and 7) Construct fences; and provide a recommendation to the Board of Adjustment regarding a variance from the maximum front yard setback regulation.

Applicant Robert Haggard commented on the project.

Property owner Fong Jordan commented on the project.

A quorum roll call was made at 3:23 p.m. with all members present.

Motion: Blatt/Guillory to approve items 1.a. and 1.b. of the application and deny items 2.a., 3.a., 4.a., 5.a., 6.a., 7.a., and 7.b.

Ayes: Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum
Nays: None

Action: APPROVED.

This is decent news. They denied the actual strip mall as proposed. They also denied the variance request for moving the maximum set back which is fantastic. At the end of the day I’m pretty happy with the outcome of this one at this point.

This is decent news. They denied the actual strip mall as proposed. They also denied the variance request for moving the maximum set back which is fantastic. At the end of the day I’m pretty happy with the outcome of this one at this point.

Yep, UDC did what they should've, glad to see that, hopefully it portends well for future plans for that property.

Why approve demolition without an acceptable plan to rebuild?

Why approve demolition without an acceptable plan to rebuild?

Good point, maybe they were concerned with the condition of the building and wanted to have it come down as quickly and safely as possible? I don't think it's in imminent danger of falling down, though, so yeah, a bit odd, and as has been said by many on here - tie a demo permit to an acceptable replacement for what's being demo-ed.

^

You can't force someone to build.

But you can deny a design review application to tear something down while simultaneously proposing rebuilding something that doesn't meet design requirements.

^

You can't force someone to build.

But you can deny a design review application to tear something down while simultaneously proposing rebuilding something that doesn't meet design requirements.

Maybe ask Peoples, Ude, Blatt, Charneco, Guillory, Holmes, Miller, Nguyen, Varnum why they approved to demo, but deny building? :)

Perhaps the UDC saw the writing on the wall for this building and knew it was in a state of disrepair with roof open that it would deteriorate quickly. Its also pretty obvious the current owners have zero plan or desire to mitigate the problem. Maybe they decided to go ahead and issue the demo permit instead of waiting a couple of more years while it fell apart only to revisit the issue 3 years later with the building in absolute shambles. I really don't know but this is the only thing i can think of off the top of my head.

I would rather the building just be saved. However IMO this is one of the few instances where this property being an empty lot for 5 years would be better than the proposed replacement structure being approved and built..

^

Property owners are required to keep their properties in decent order.

Not fixing the roof after a storm is not an acceptable reason IMO. There was a fully operating business in that building the day the damage happened.

In effect, the city is rewarding a property owner when they choose not to maintain their property as required by code.

Good point. I do wish code enforcement would have sharper teeth with negligent owners of both commercial and residential property. From what i've gathered with the few instances i've dealt with code enforcement on dilapidated/unsafe structures, they would rather look the other way and not deal with doing anything about it. Not sure why.

Good point. I do wish code enforcement would have sharper teeth with negligent owners of both commercial and residential property. From what i've gathered with the few instances i've dealt with code enforcement on dilapidated/unsafe structures, they would rather look the other way and not deal with doing anything about it. Not sure why.

The city is very good about acting when a formal complaint is filed through the Action Center.

I've done in about a dozen times and the issue is always resolved. Once it goes into the system, you can see it progress.

They are not good about being proactive, however. Something pretty much has to be reported.

The city is very good about acting when a formal complaint is filed through the Action Center.

I've done in about a dozen times and the issue is always resolved. Once it goes into the system, you can see it progress.

They are not good about being proactive, however. Something pretty much has to be reported.

I can second this from experience. I have had potholes fixed within 24 hours! I was amazed by that. And I reported graffiti at the Belle Isle bridge complex and they painted it out within days. Gotta jump on that kind of stuff quickly or it will get out of hand.

The city is very good about acting when a formal complaint is filed through the Action Center.

I've done in about a dozen times and the issue is always resolved. Once it goes into the system, you can see it progress.

They are not good about being proactive, however. Something pretty much has to be reported.

I agree. I can see an issue sit for months then when I report it, it's resolved within a week.

The city is very good about acting when a formal complaint is filed through the Action Center.

I've done in about a dozen times and the issue is always resolved. Once it goes into the system, you can see it progress.

They are not good about being proactive, however. Something pretty much has to be reported.

I've heard Code Enforcement management explicitly say "it must be reported, we don't do proactive enforcement." From my understanding, that division of the City has never had enough employees to conduct proactive enforcement. The most proactive thing they do is pull signs in the ROW.

I've heard Code Enforcement management explicitly say "it must be reported, we don't do proactive enforcement." From my understanding, that division of the City has never had enough employees to conduct proactive enforcement. The most proactive thing they do is pull signs in the ROW.

Which is understandable, while also underscoring the importance of people actually using the Action Center (although when it comes to neighbors I still think the much nicer and more effective approach is the kind but direct one).

They have submitted a new site plan which will be reviewed by the Urban Design Commission on 6/24.

It's basically the same strip center, just rotated and moved closer to 23rd.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1400nw23061620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1400nw23061620b.jpg

This is the dumbest thing i've ever seen. Whoever is designing this cant even fathom a strip center not directly address a parking lot so they would rather turn their storefronts away from the public than to not have front row parking.

Address the street. It would take zero effort or cost to rotate that building back to the original orientation and have it pushed up against 23rd. Put the parking in the back and be done with this.

Lack of imagination

As I said before - "I doubt they even use developers for this kind of crap, there's probably a stripmallsrus.com site that any idiot with money and no sense of civic responsibility or taste can download plans from..." Hopefully they won't let him get away with just turning it sideways.

hopefully the UDC wont approve it unless they at least turn the storefronts around to face the street.

It'd also be nice if udc could require them to put the fronts even closer to the street and move parking to the back, you know - teach them urban design by committee approval rather than just rubber stamping development (since it's better than what we have now.... excuse.)

Backhoe parked in the parking lot tonight when we went by on our way to Providence Pizza, so guessing it's coming down soon.

The demolition permit has been issued.

Just took this:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts081420a.jpg

The demolition permit has been issued.

Just took this:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts081420a.jpg

It makes me sad, bye Mutts

It makes me sad, bye Mutts

What made *me* sad was when they decimated their menu a couple of years back and took all the original/good stuff off.

What made *me* sad was when they decimated their menu a couple of years back and took all the original/good stuff off.

yep... this... i used to go there often, then they reworked the menu and i never went back

yep... this... i used to go there often, then they reworked the menu and i never went back

Wish they would've made at least *some* attempt to save the bldg, but that's what you get when you have a landlord that's an accountant and doesn't give a crap about the restaurant business. Similar to the owner that had a record store I loved, but he never listened to music - he thought it was a good investment until he got tired of dealing with it and then killed it. Not saying that all landlords should have an interest in whatever business they're leasing to, but I just don't like this guy specifically for his demolition-by-neglect and then his really sh*tty new building plan for the site.

Wish they would've made at least *some* attempt to save the bldg, but that's what you get when you have a landlord that's an accountant and doesn't give a crap about the restaurant business. Similar to the owner that had a record store I loved, but he never listened to music - he thought it was a good investment until he got tired of dealing with it and then killed it. Not saying that all landlords should have an interest in whatever business they're leasing to, but I just don't like this guy specifically for his demolition-by-neglect and then his really sh*tty new building plan for the site.

At least jump in there and save that cool sign.

Gone as of this afternoon.

This is what will be going on on the site of the old Mutt's in Updtown/23rd.

There are already locations at 11701 S. Western and in The Village at 10805 N. May.

https://www.hteao.com/

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hteao3.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hteao4.jpg

HTeaO is going in on this spot:

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=46204&p=1159642#post1159642

Has anyone been to either of the other two locations in the metro area?

Has anyone been to either of the other two locations in the metro area?

I have not, but several co-workers go on a daily basis and really like it.

Man, between Urban Teahouse on 23rd and Walker and the extreme concentration of bubble tea shops in the Asian district I'm tempted to start referring to the area surrounding 23rd and Classen as the Tea District. Fine by me!

Has anyone been to either of the other two locations in the metro area?
If I'm up on N. May I'll stop and grab some. I like the unsweetened coconut flavor. Both locations are just out of the way for me. This new location will be too close for comfort!

i tried it out a little over a month ago... i had a sweet raspberry tea. if i remember right, a 44oz was around $2.50 after tax. i have to admit, it was a well-brewed iced tea but not enough so that i'd regularly visit.

yep... this... i used to go there often, then they reworked the menu and i never went back

Was the rabbit and venison dog before or after the rework?

Was the rabbit and venison dog before or after the rework?

I believe they reworked the menu to take all the interesting stuff off, so rabbit and venison were before, and afterwards they were just a standard hot-dog place.

Looks like mainly black or green tea? I'd try that unsweet watermelon in 100degree heat if no caffeine. Otherwise, what an oddly narrow menu. They should look to expand in Louisiana and Mississippi, aren't they all about sweet tea?

Work has started on this. Framing looks complete.

According to their website, one is coming to Norman and another one in NW OKC. The current one in NW OKC is listed in the Villages on their website.

My wife hits this place up nearly every other day when she's over on May. She has an app that she earns free teas and stuff, and there's happy hour from 2-4 featuring half-off all drinks. It's rather fab, really.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts081821a.jpg

I pass the new location being built on 23rd often and just keep wondering how a place that just sells Tea can need such a big space. Do they have food as well or am i correct that its all just for Tea?

I pass the new location being built on 23rd often and just keep wondering how a place that just sells Tea can need such a big space. Do they have food as well or am i correct that its all just for Tea?

The space they have to make tea is fairly large. Plus they have snacks and other stuff.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hteao121121a.jpg

HTeaO opens at this location on 2/25.

It is open.

I went by there yesterday and it was crazy busy!