For me, when I want a hot dog I want a classic no-fluff dog. I pass up two Coney Island locations and the Chili Dog Express (across the street from my office) just to eat at Hot Dogs and More at SE 44th and I-35.

I've always wanted to try them just based on how long they've managed to make it at that location.


To be fair--and this may come off as a "hot take"--the coney island express downtown is
A. No frills
B. Not good

Would you happen to know if they chili dog express uses a grill for their hot dogs? When I worked downtown all I really wanted was a place that didn't use boiled water

Only been once and pretty sure they were boiled and kind of expensive.

We like Mutts Uptown. Yes, it's changed a lot and the menu is definitely paired down. I hated when they got rid of deviled eggs. But we will still go.

I remember back in early 2016 when I worked at Sysco and met with the new operator. They asked if I could rebrand them based on a conversation we had. I had completely forgot about this until I saw this thread show up. My submission to them for funsies :)

14699

that's not bad work but i'm kind of glad that mutts has kept the kitsch element of their branding.

that's not bad work but i'm kind of glad that mutts has kept the kitsch element of their branding.

Yeah, after going back and forth, they decided to keep things in line with their original look.

Saw a for sale sign up on the 23rd Street building, so they are probably giving up the ghost after the May 25th tornado damage, but not 100% sure as they haven't updated their Facebook page and I don't know if they own the building or if they're leasing it. Anyone have more information?

Also, if anyone has recommendations for where to get a good Chicago dog in OKC now, I'd appreciate it.

^

Mutts does not own that building.

^

Mutts does not own that building.

Thanks for the quick response. I drive down 23rd often and tonight was the first time I noticed the for sale sign, but entirely possible that it's been up for a little while and I just missed it until now.

Thanks for the quick response. I drive down 23rd often and tonight was the first time I noticed the for sale sign, but entirely possible that it's been up for a little while and I just missed it until now.

Nope, sign's new-ish, we drive on 23rd quite often and I think it's been up for maybe a week or so, first noticed it tonight on the way to Magasin Table/Prairie. But I would suspect that if the bldg is for sale, Mutt's is gone, and with the way they closed the Edmond location and pared down their menu at 23rd a while ago, wouldn't be a bit surprised they might've been circling the drain and finally called it quits.

Nope, sign's new-ish, we drive on 23rd quite often and I think it's been up for maybe a week or so, first noticed it tonight on the way to Magasin Table/Prairie. But I would suspect that if the bldg is for sale, Mutt's is gone, and with the way they closed the Edmond location and pared down their menu at 23rd a while ago, wouldn't be a bit surprised they might've been circling the drain and finally called it quits.

https://oklahoman.com/article/5633871/damage-controlbrredemption-second-chance-sought-amidst-devastation-at-mutts?fbclid=IwAR3plt2-R4QWXKeZfhI539zd2n1F5KoySV4JG9rdVoQwupqhk9dM5O6aWS 8

They said they will commit it to being reopen so we will see but I never knew about the tornado damage, that really sucks!

Nope, sign's new-ish, we drive on 23rd quite often and I think it's been up for maybe a week or so, first noticed it tonight on the way to Magasin Table/Prairie. But I would suspect that if the bldg is for sale, Mutt's is gone, and with the way they closed the Edmond location and pared down their menu at 23rd a while ago, wouldn't be a bit surprised they might've been circling the drain and finally called it quits.

The owner responded to a couple of recent comments on the the Mutts facebook page. He is either completely oblivious or intentional withholding information for whatever reason. Someone ask him about the for sale sign, if he plans to reopen, why don't you have a sign on the building saying why your closed. He acted like he didn't know anything about the sale of the building and didn't understand why he should post a sign on the building.

His response was also interesting when someone ask if both locations closed and he said we always just had one location. Lol, just pretending like Edmond location never happened.

So, my guess is no. They are not coming back.

The owner responded to a couple of recent comments on the the Mutts facebook page. He is either completely oblivious or intentional withholding information for whatever reason. Someone ask him about the for sale sign, if he plans to reopen, why don't you have a sign on the building saying why your closed. He acted like he didn't know anything about the sale of the building and didn't understand why he should post a sign on the building.

His response was also interesting when someone ask if both locations closed and he said we always just had one location. Lol, just pretending like Edmond location never happened.

So, my guess is no. They are not coming back.

The owner does not own the building so that is why he can not post anything on it and he said he is still working with the building owner and insurance and will update when anything comes up

And what about the Midwest City location?
C. T.

And what about the Midwest City location?
C. T.

The Midwest City location has been closed since last year, I am not really surprised though, every time I go there, it is always empty

The owner does not own the building so that is why he can not post anything on it and he said he is still working with the building owner and insurance and will update when anything comes up

Ha, seems like something *did* come up, like a "For Sale" sign being placed on the building - that would seem to warrant an update. :) Weird that he's playing coy on things.

I think there are several things in play here-The current owner took over in August 2018 according to Lackmeyer’s story. All other locations had already failed and been closed before he took over. He may not have any knowledge (or interest) in regards to what went before his time. Mutt’s had become a small business by August 2018, and current owner may have paid for used equipment and take over the rent payment.
If the Charles Shadid described as building owner is the gent I’m thinking of, then it is very possible he and the business owner have not been communicating much. Mr. Shadid has (I think he still does) a lot of commercial properties in OKC. Many of those he has owned for over 30 years and are of a type where upkeep and upgrades would be very expensive. I would imagine Mr. Shadid has his property and structure insured, but the contents (including fixtures, furniture and equipment) would be the responsibility of Mutt’s ownership. Having enough insurance to protect a small business in this type occurrence is rare and expensive (speaking from experience....negative experience.
Tl;dr.
Mr. Shadid wants to take insurance money and sell, Mutt’s doesn’t have money to reopen. Sign stays and concept stays alive until either building sells and signage removed or Mutt’s finds another location and has enough money to open.
Rank speculation on my part.

That "rank speculation" is exactly what I was thinking... Building owner not interested in fixing building, probably knows of interest in the land (only) and expects eventual buyer to tear down building anyway. Feel bad for Mutts owner, but I think that's all she wrote for them.

Out running errands on Classen today and Mutt's is on the way home, the "For Sale" sign is no longer up and it doesn't look like it sold, according to the county assessor website. :headscrat

Out running errands on Classen today and Mutt's is on the way home, the "For Sale" sign is no longer up and it doesn't look like it sold, according to the county assessor website. :headscrat

The Assessor's website may not indicate a transaction for several weeks, sometimes months.

Someone familiar with Mutts' history told me that the last owner paid too much for the business, quickly got into financial trouble, then tried to sell it. I don't think that was previously written in this thread, but I may have missed it.

The Assessor's website may not indicate a transaction for several weeks, sometimes months.

Then why does it say this - " All records are current as of close of previous working day"?

The deed may not be filed the day of the closing. Once it gets filed, it will be on the site.

The deed may not be filed the day of the closing. Once it gets filed, it will be on the site.

Yeah, figured that, makes sense, but shouldn't take weeks or months to file, but maybe it does? I know they were having problems in the past year or so and didn't update the website for a few months, but that's not the case anymore. However, the searchable map version on the website does say "last updated 6/25/19", so I know that part lags behind.

I think there could many reasons the sign is gone and there might not be a property transaction shown. Mr. Shadid and family are smart operators with deep pockets and a vast network of partners and associates they have accumulated over the years. There could be a lease/purchase, owner carry, all cash, no cash or about any deal that could legally reduce a tax liability and help get a deal done.

Someone familiar with Mutts' history told me that the last owner paid too much for the business, quickly got into financial trouble, then tried to sell it. I don't think that was previously written in this thread, but I may have missed it.

I'm kinda reading between the lines here and guessing the Oklahoman story by Steve Lackmeyer that is linked to in post #130 above suggests that people who had it before current owner Omar Molina took over last August are the ones who quickly wound up underwater. Appears to me there is a period where someone went from hot dogs in a 50 year old restaurant building to "The Next Sonic" and multiple locations in a couple years. And then back to....

Looks like the building sold back in September from Charles Shadid to Jordan Fong.

Also, it looks like no work has been done on the outside in some time. The tarp is still on the east side of the roof.

Fong is a tax accountant. Hope it's not turned into a tax prep office.

wait, so Mutts is dead?

all of them or just the one on 23rd?

wait, so Mutts is dead?

all of them or just the one on 23rd?

The one in Edmond closed over a year ago, I think, and the one on 23rd's been closed for almost a year now, but someone please correct me if the dates are wrong.

The one in Edmond closed over a year ago, I think, and the one on 23rd's been closed for almost a year now, but someone please correct me if the dates are wrong.

This is correct. The one on 23rd has been closed since the Memorial Day weekend tornado, so just about 7 months now. I think there was also one in Midwest City that closed a while back. Not aware of any other locations.

dang that sucks, I liked the place, though obviously hadn't got much of late (had been many times under original owners)

dang that sucks, I liked the place, though obviously hadn't got much of late (had been many times under original owners)

Eh, don't worry, if you hadn't eaten there lately you can still hold on to your good memories, they went downhill (cut the types of dogs, no more duck fat fries, etc.), then they died.

Iconic Route 66 A-Frame structure set for demolition (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=694-Iconic-Route-66-A-Frame-structure-set-for-demolition)

The new owner of the old Mutts Hot Dog restaurant at 1400 NW 23rd has filed plans to demolish the distinct building and build a new shopping center on the site.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts022920c.jpg


Constructed in the 1960s for the short-lived Heap Big Beef restaurant chain, the distinctive A-Frame building was once a landmark on Route 66.

Most recently, it had been home to Mutts, which closed in May of last year after a storm sheared off a portion of the roof. It has been vacant since.

The property was purchased last September by the current developer for $500,000.

The proposed demolition and new construction will be considered by the Urban Design Review Commission on March 25th.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts022920a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts022920d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts031020a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mutts031020b.jpg

Fu€k these assholes. It wouldn’t be as maddening if these unique structures were replaced with something unique or more impressive but we see yet another sh!tty generic strip mall. Damn

i don't think this was ever on route 66 didn't it 66 go south on classen from 39th then east on 23rd??

either way this building is damaged and not really functional .. this would be a good change for the area

There were several Route 66 alignments through OKC, but at one time it absolutely included that stretch of 23rd, which is why you have things like the old motel that is now the Flamingo apartments:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/route66map.jpg

i don't think this was ever on route 66 didn't it 66 go south on classen from 39th then east on 23rd??

either way this building is damaged and not really functional .. this would be a good change for the areayes more cookie cutter strip malls will signal a breath of fresh and forward change for this area.

Fu€k these assholes. It wouldn’t be as maddening if these unique structures were replaced with something unique or more impressive but we see yet another sh!tty generic strip mall. Damn

Not everything unique is good. And this is not really good, and it is limiting, in terms of what could go there. Not saying a strip mall is the best replacement, but tearing is down is fine with me.

Can they at least put the parking lot behind the building? This is really bad.

Why is a proposed laundromat on Classen the only new development that actually puts any type of effort in the layout of the site?

I'm sure the Urban Design Commission will have plenty to say about all this.

i don't think this was ever on route 66 didn't it 66 go south on classen from 39th then east on 23rd??

either way this building is damaged and not really functional .. this would be a good change for the area

Bullsh*t to both of those - it can be repaired and it will be completely functional then, and no, a strip mall would not be a good change, FFS, it *never* is a good change, we already have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many empty strip malls in this city.

I'm not sure anyone should really be surprised by this - after the storm damaged the place and it didn't get repaired, it was fairly evident the owner wanted out of the property. I feel for the guy who ran Mutt's; never heard how he fared out of that whole situation, along with the folks they employed.

I'm sure no fan of another generic stripmall, but the building as it sits was of no use and likely not worth repairing. I can't blame the owner for wanting to put up something that made the property useful. I think this is just another long-term consequence of storm damage we don't think about - had the tornado not hit the place, Mutt's would have gone on with that new owner, and who knows where it would have gone. I think the prior owner had sold out because the business was ebbing, and the new guy was hoping to revive it and make it work. Now, we'll never know. Stinking tornadoes.

What a downgrade. The design could not be worst. Who are these developers? Are they local?

Bullsh*t to both of those - it can be repaired and it will be completely functional then, and no, a strip mall would not be a good change, FFS, it *never* is a good change, we already have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many empty strip malls in this city.

We really have no idea how much it would have cost to repair that building, at least I don't. And there may have been a lot of underlying issues with a building that age.

More broadly, we've already lost a BUNCH of really nice, unique old retail buildings along that same corridor over the last 20-30 years. It'd be nice if we could get some of them back, but it just isn't likely.

I'm sure the Urban Design Commission will have plenty to say about all this.

I can't find a way to contact them, which I'm sure is deliberate, but here's a link to a page that's got a guy's name/email on it that may be able to help with that. Don't know if contacting them would help, but may be worth a shot.

https://www.okc.gov/departments/planning/design-review-and-historic-preservation/urban-design-districts

Are there really that many developers in OKC with no vision or taste whatsoever who just want to make the cheapest dollar they can? What an awful proposed replacement. When will we get past this ridiculous strip mall fad?

There were several Route 66 alignments through OKC, but at one time it absolutely included that stretch of 23rd, which is why you have things like the old motel that is now the Flamingo apartments:




this is pretty interesting and somthing i didn't know

he different alignments of City 66 west of the State Capitol:
1926-30: Along 23rd to Classen to 39th St.
Map with directions
1930-33: Along 23rd to Western to 39th St.
Map with directions
1933-54: Along 23rd to May Ave. to 39th St.
Map with directions
1933-53: Western from 23rd to to 39th St. and west to May Ave. became Alt 66
1954-79: Along 23rd to May Ave. to 39th St. became Bus. 66 as the City 66 was eliminated.
03.05.1979 US 66 Business Route deleted in Oklahoma City

lots of different combo for this part of town all 90 +- years old

The failure of Mutts as a business certainly contributed to this. If a vibrant business was operating there, a way forward would’ve been found. But in this case, the property owner was facing the certainty of expensive building repairs and the uncertainty of a future successful restaurant tenant.

Are there really that many developers in OKC with no vision or taste whatsoever who just want to make the cheapest dollar they can? What an awful proposed replacement. When will we get past this ridiculous strip mall fad?

I doubt they even use developers for this kind of crap, there's probably a stripmallsrus.com site that any idiot with money and no sense of civic responsibility or taste can download plans from...

There's literally storefronts vacant with a "for lease" sign on them two blocks away on the north side of 23rd right before Classen, and I'd bet there's more within a few blocks that I can't think of right now, there is absolutely no need for this crappy strip mall anywhere in the city, much less replacing the Mutt's building.

This developer owns a tax service so I suspect he'll use at least part of this property for that purpose.

i would be all for this if it were being replaced with something truly amazing, because this building is just okay... but the proposal for what it's being replaced with is just awful....

This developer owns a tax service so I suspect he'll use at least part of this property for that purpose.

What a home run! This is just what this area needs. A tax service, maybe we could get a Payday loan, and a pot shop! I am sure that an upstanding citizen like this man will keep this building well maintained so it can bring joy to future generations.

This developer owns a tax service so I suspect he'll use at least part of this property for that purpose.

Is this the same guy who recently put in the strip mall at NW 15th and May?
Noticed that shortly after the building went up a sign for a tax service went out front. Looks very similar to the above proposal.

Is this the same guy who recently put in the strip mall at NW 15th and May?
Noticed that shortly after the building went up a sign for a tax service went out front. Looks very similar to the above proposal.

I just checked and that seems to be a different group.

I doubt they even use developers for this kind of crap, there's probably a stripmallsrus.com site that any idiot with money and no sense of civic responsibility or taste can download plans from...

There's literally storefronts vacant with a "for lease" sign on them two blocks away on the north side of 23rd right before Classen, and I'd bet there's more within a few blocks that I can't think of right now, there is absolutely no need for this crappy strip mall anywhere in the city, much less replacing the Mutt's building.

So we should only allow new retail buildings when everything else is 100% leased? Or no new homes can be built until all the unsold ones are sold? Of course not, this is a ridiculous view to take.


What a home run! This is just what this area needs. A tax service, maybe we could get a Payday loan, and a pot shop! I am sure that an upstanding citizen like this man will keep this building well maintained so it can bring joy to future generations.

Why do you get to say that there doesnt need to be a tax service in this spot? Strip mall tenants do serve people who have a demand for them.

Maybe everyone against this should also put forth efforts to clean up the nearby buildings around this. Have you seen some of the trash nearby? Go after them first, instead of attacking something newer and nicer going in place of a building that isnt remarkable or significant. Save your breath for something truly unique like the gold dome.

There were several Route 66 alignments through OKC, but at one time it absolutely included that stretch of 23rd, which is why you have things like the old motel that is now the Flamingo apartments:

66 went down 23rd Street until 1954. I spent many hours researching this when I worked in Public Works. We were assisting the Mayor's office with defining the "official" stretch of historic Route 66 through OKC, with David Holt then being staff to the Mayor. Holt was very interested in the project.

15839

^

That's a great map! Thanks very much.

Are there really that many developers in OKC with no vision or taste whatsoever who just want to make the cheapest dollar they can? What an awful proposed replacement. When will we get past this ridiculous strip mall fad?

When people quit frequenting the stores that are in them or the city bans strip center retail in areas or all over.

I love Mid-Century as much as anyone. But, this was a relatively inexpensively built, fast food restaurant that failed pretty quickly. I don't see it as an icon of anything special.

If we follow the outrage on this thread, I would be afraid to see the response when an old red roofed Pizza Hut building was torn down.

I love Mid-Century as much as anyone. But, this was a relatively inexpensively built, fast food restaurant that failed pretty quickly. I don't see it as an icon of anything special.

If we follow the outrage on this thread, I would be afraid to see the response when an old red roofed Pizza Hut building was torn down.

I’m outraged by what is proposed to replace it more than the building itself being torn down. However, compared to what is proposed, the existing Mutts building is an architectural wonder of the world.

This is not an improvement in any way.