Saw that Amtrak will resume operating the Gulf Coast corridor in 2022 which is great news.

“
Amtrak passenger service along the Gulf Coast is on target to return in 2022 and could come in the early part of next year, an official with the railroad company confirmed Tuesday.

Marc Magliari, spokesman for Amtrak, said the nation’s passenger rail service reached out to CSX and Norfolk Southern in January to inform them “that we intend to begin service in 2022” that will connect New Orleans to Mobile with four stops in Mississippi – Bay St. Louis, Gulfport, Biloxi, and Pascagoula. It will be the first time that passenger trains have rolled along the Gulf Coast in more than 16 years.”

https://www.al.com/news/2021/02/amtrak-official-gulf-coast-service-starting-in-2022.html?outputType=amp&fbclid=IwAR1MguA11wz4mBIJMG0I-TR0OW3vDvh5MHsYEfgrFDv5oTRsgjKgwn36oz4

With Biden being a big Amtrak fan, Buttigieg wanting more emphasis on mass transit, I bet we see some exciting developments with Amtrak in the coming years.

With Biden being a big Amtrak fan, Buttigieg wanting more emphasis on mass transit, I bet we see some exciting developments with Amtrak in the coming years.

We really should have a national network of trains with high speed trains mixed in. We already have a decent network. I'd just love to see the U.S. really invest in it. I know the geography is challenging. Maybe it would be too expensive, but how great would it be to have a series of long distance high speed trains.

If there was pursuit of public-private partnerships like Texas has been doing, l bet it would happen. The east coast route is the most obvious need but it's not the only one that would make sense.

I hope the Texas HSR gets underway. It’s founders are said to be targeting this year to start. We’ll see if that gets underway. I have completely lost hope for CHSR and I I’ve my doubts if even Virgin will be able to pull of the Las Vegas to Victorville line but I hope I’m wrong.

Really, a whole federal division needs to oversee, plan routes, secure right of way, get through lawsuits, etc. Then oversee public-private partnerships. This is the kind of thing private business can to better, cheaper and faster. Also, don't be proud, the Chinese developed some remarkable construction techniques.

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The chinese used techniques developed by Japan and Europe, who have been doing high speed trains far earlier (and even still today). ... Japan is at the forefront with the new ShinKanSen that's being built. ... China has no home grown rail technology (in fact, little of any tech that's not copied or stolen). Just sayin;.

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The chinese used techniques developed by Japan and Europe, who have been doing high speed trains far earlier (and even still today). ... Japan is at the forefront with the new ShinKanSen that's being built. ... China has no home grown rail technology (in fact, little of any tech that's not copied or stolen). Just sayin;.

Whatever, l've just seen a number of fascinating video's of how the Chinese have built so much, so fast. So much of it is pre-fabbed and not fabricated on site which speeds up the construction and, no doubt, reduces the cost significantly. Then there are the machines/trains that lay the bridge sections, the base, the gravel, ties and the rails. Whoever developed it, it's amazing.

Yes, l'm aware the Chinese don't have to worry about politics, environment and lawsuits.

We really should have a national network of trains with high speed trains mixed in. We already have a decent network. I'd just love to see the U.S. really invest in it. I know the geography is challenging. Maybe it would be too expensive, but how great would it be to have a series of long distance high speed trains.

All of the money you'd need to upgrade that would have to come out of the military budget. And of course, that's going to be completely untouched when all is said and done because it doesn't matter what party you're in, everyone loves spending a good $10 million for something that goes BOOM.

China's early high-speed trains were imported or built under technology transfer agreements with foreign train-makers including Alstom, Siemens, Bombardier and Kawasaki Heavy Industries. Since the initial technological support, Chinese engineers have re-designed internal train components and built indigenous trains manufactured by the state-owned CRRC Corporation.
And I might add, I took a 3 week rail tour of northern China in 1985, and visited Datong, where steam locomotives (2-10-2) were being made. These would have been the equivalent of 1920’s in the USA. However the progress, it’s quite amazing.

the tech the chinese employ today is the same as existed from that which the aformentioned countries imported and invested in China. WHO designed the Shanghai Maglev? Was NOT China.

To sit and call their approach innovative and at the forefront of tech is blindly missing the point that they copied somebody else and implemented with little to no red tape in that the CCP doesn't need to worry about opposition and now call everything their own.

True home-grown engineering relies on self funded research and development, something China is NOT good at and therefore relies on IP theft, bait and switch, and threats - that Trump exposed to the world - to gain technology the rest of the world worked so hard to develop. This is a fact aht I have seen personally, so never leave out this whilst praising the CCP and their "modernisation efforts".

I personally felt safe riding in China built high-speed and Mag-Lev rail because I knew the technology came from tried and true research developed not-from-China. ...

As yourself, would YOU fly on a China built airplane, or buy a China built car or ev, or condo, or drink milk/products that come from China, or use China built masks, ..... etc?

the tech the chinese employ today is the same as existed from that which the aformentioned countries imported and invested in China. WHO designed the Shanghai Maglev? Was NOT China.

To sit and call their approach innovative and at the forefront of tech is blindly missing the point that they copied somebody else and implemented with little to no red tape in that the CCP doesn't need to worry about opposition and now call everything their own.

True home-grown engineering relies on self funded research and development, something China is NOT good at and therefore relies on IP theft, bait and switch, and threats - that Trump exposed to the world - to gain technology the rest of the world worked so hard to develop. This is a fact aht I have seen personally, so never leave out this whilst praising the CCP and their "modernisation efforts".

I personally felt safe riding in China built high-speed and Mag-Lev rail because I knew the technology came from tried and true research developed not-from-China. ...

As yourself, would YOU fly on a China built airplane, or buy a China built car or ev, or condo, or drink milk/products that come from China, or use China built masks, ..... etc?

I’ve got some pretty interesting stories about some large high rise construction projects I’ve worked on in China.

We need Japan style maglev on EVERY single interstate in this country to truly be competitive. That needs to be the next step we take to improve our infrastructure. No more stupid trains like what’s proposed in Texas or CA let alone the dumb 50 MPH train proposed in Colorado.. what a joke that is.

We need Japan style maglev on EVERY single interstate in this country to truly be competitive. That needs to be the next step we take to improve our infrastructure. No more stupid trains like what’s proposed in Texas or CA let alone the dumb 50 MPH train proposed in Colorado.. what a joke that is.

Hey, we would kill for a 50 mph train to the ski resorts just to avoid ski traffic jams.

We need Japan style maglev on EVERY single interstate in this country to truly be competitive. That needs to be the next step we take to improve our infrastructure. No more stupid trains like what’s proposed in Texas or CA let alone the dumb 50 MPH train proposed in Colorado.. what a joke that is.

Now, build HSR east from Denver to KC or Omaha to Chicago? Denver SE to OKC then to DFW? Now we're talking. Straight, flat and cheap compared to CA.

Speaking of routes to Denver, I’d be much happier with a new OKC-Denver interstate than HSR. I really wish such a corridor could be justified.

Speaking of routes to Denver, I’d be much happier with a new OKC-Denver interstate than HSR. I really wish such a corridor could be justified.

Agree. But would be very expensive. If OK could extend NW expressway from Okarche to connect into Hwy 3 to Watonga that would be a good start, as a lot of the state highways from there are divided 4 lane, but with at grade crossings. Get pretty good speeds through there without the price of a limited access road. Going off of the DrivingOklahoma cost to build the eastern OK county turnpike, it was $300 million for 21 miles. We'll say 15 million a mile for about $420 million to do Okarche to Watonga.

https://i.gyazo.com/fa0dadb9c682f92bc60ab40545564f1b.png This would be a several hundred billion dollar were it to be an interstate. I don't think we can expect it anytime soon :)

I wonder if it would attract Dallas to Denver traffic. A complete interstate road all the way using I-35 to OKC then I-XX to Denver. Could be faster than the current route that is the fastest from OKC-Dallas but I imagine it would have to be toll free in order to prevent shun pikers. They could use a increased gas tax along the corridor similar to how Virginia is rebuilding and widening I-81.

Alas back to reality yeah it’s a pipe dream at this point. So many other needs the state needs to fill with roads and passenger rail(billions for upgrading the existing routes plus extensions to Kansas and Tulsa).

I don't think it would be worth the money in the end. Driving times to Denver/CO are already quite reasonable. It is a LONG day, but I have done it plenty of times with plenty of life left in me at the end of the day. That's a lot of money to turn a 12 hour drive into a 9 hour drive.

I just despise I-70 east of Burlington to I-135. It’s like a breath of fresh air once I hit Salina and if I can eat some Cozy Inn Burgers. Often I’ll go out of my way to travel through the Panhandle and NW OK.

I just despise I-70 east of Burlington to I-135. It’s like a breath of fresh air once I hit Salina and if I can eat some Cozy Inn Burgers. Often I’ll go out of my way to travel through the Panhandle and NW OK.

Going I-40 west, then north through Amarillo, Dalhart, Des Moines, to Raton is the best way. Seems to drag ass a lot less.

I don't think it would be worth the money in the end. Driving times to Denver/CO are already quite reasonable. It is a LONG day, but I have done it plenty of times with plenty of life left in me at the end of the day. That's a lot of money to turn a 12 hour drive into a 9 hour drive.

Sez you! Lol.

I used to drive that god-awful route 6 or so times a year both ways. I've decided l just deal with the extra time to see something - anything, a different route.

The route through the mountains couldn't be high speed but Denver to Cleveland could be done, then slow down some to the coast.

The US simply needs to get things started with HSR. It's a vast country so it doesn't have to go everywhere but do build where the terrain makes it possible.

Sez you! Lol.

I used to drive that god-awful route 6 or so times a year both ways. I've decided l just deal with the extra time to see something - anything, a different route.

The route through the mountains couldn't be high speed but Denver to Cleveland could be done, then slow down some to the coast.

The US simply needs to get things started with HSR. It's a vast country so it doesn't have to go everywhere but do build where the terrain makes it possible.

To be fair, I am easily amused. Once I am on autopilot out on the open road I can be entertained with just about anything to look at. Wow that's a cool fencepost. Huh, I wonder what material that sign is made out of? Bet these crops look cool from the air. What are those red and blue lights and why are they behind me?

To be fair, I am easily amused. Once I am on autopilot out on the open road I can be entertained with just about anything to look at. Wow that's a cool fencepost. Huh, I wonder what material that sign is made out of? Bet these crops look cool from the air. What are those red and blue lights and why are they behind me?

It's usually blowing so hard from one direction or another, my car can't speed.

It's usually blowing so hard from one direction or another, my car can't speed.

Do you drive a box truck? It can certainly be windy in west texas. Last time I made the drive, outside of Texline the wind must have been gusting 60-70MPH. I had never seen tumbleweeds so large, or quick.

I am usually very lucky with not having too many problems with the popo given how fast I usually drive on interstate and I mean I drive extremely fast but in the Texas panhandle I have horrible luck. Everywhere else I’m usually good. It’s bizarre.

I am usually very lucky with not having too many problems with the popo given how fast I usually drive on interstate and I mean I drive extremely fast but in the Texas panhandle I have horrible luck. Everywhere else I’m usually good. It’s bizarre.

I'm pretty good. I usually only get tickets in Oklahoma. If you're in Colorado and see a sign that says "Traffic laws enforced by aircraft" it is not an empty-threat to get you to slow down. They are doing aggressive airplane patrols. Ask me how I know this.

I always wondered about enforced by aircraft. In California is seems to be more or less an invitation to drive with no worries as I have noticed most of the time CHP has virtually no presence in these areas.

I always wondered about enforced by aircraft. In California is seems to be more or less an invitation to drive with no worries as I have noticed most of the time CHP has virtually no presence in these areas.

I used to find it odd that these tended to be on older highways but not seen as much on newer ones, till I learned more about general aviation history and present. Most of the signs seem to have went up decades ago when flying was much more economical, both from cost of purchasing and operating aircraft, and from their being large pool of post war pilots available to be hired. That environment had shifted since the rise of fuel costs and the aircraft manufactures almost abandoning the owner/operator section of general aviation in the eighties due to liability. Cheap drones that automate most of the piloting out might actually bring this full circle to that being viable again, but for the last few decades it would be more viable to just spend several times as much on cars or do the monitoring via cameras.

I used to find it odd that these tended to be on older highways but not seen as much on newer ones, till I learned more about general aviation history and present. Most of the signs seem to have went up decades ago when flying was much more economical, both from cost of purchasing and operating aircraft, and from their being large pool of post war pilots available to be hired. That environment had shifted since the rise of fuel costs and the aircraft manufactures almost abandoning the owner/operator section of general aviation in the eighties due to liability. Cheap drones that automate most of the piloting out might actually bring this full circle to that being viable again, but for the last few decades it would be more viable to just spend several times as much on cars or do the monitoring via cameras.

The Colorado State Police (Highway patrol) does regular patrols of I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs. In fact they just took off a few mins ago. I have noticed they usually work this area most weekdays between 9am and 11am. Return for lunch and to fill up, and then do a sweep over C-470 in the early afternoon.

https://www.flightradar24.com/C82S/26f9298a

Agree. But would be very expensive. If OK could extend NW expressway from Okarche to connect into Hwy 3 to Watonga that would be a good start, as a lot of the state highways from there are divided 4 lane, but with at grade crossings. Get pretty good speeds through there without the price of a limited access road. Going off of the DrivingOklahoma cost to build the eastern OK county turnpike, it was $300 million for 21 miles. We'll say 15 million a mile for about $420 million to do Okarche to Watonga.

https://i.gyazo.com/fa0dadb9c682f92bc60ab40545564f1b.png This would be a several hundred billion dollar were it to be an interstate. I don't think we can expect it anytime soon :)

Using 270 all the way to 40 seems a better base to start from, it is already a four lane divided highway with break down lanes most of it's route, it looks like most signs/signals are giving it a level of priority and having shifted people to i40 would be more useful to east/west access. Plus cost of the length of extension to NW eapressway you showed from Okarche to Watonga would be around enough to construct a junction with i40 and bypasses for every city from OKC to the Oklahoma border on 270 & 412, which at that point with the level of signal prioritization it has means you would not have to stop the entire way.

Surprised you haven't advocated for a new interstate between OKC and Denver, Plu.

Going I-40 west, then north through Amarillo, Dalhart, Des Moines, to Raton is the best way. Seems to drag ass a lot less.

This 1000x. I'll take that route or the NW Passage through Guymon, Boise City, & Clayton anytime I make that drive. I've even taken I-40, exited in Clinton and gone through Canadian, Spearman, Stratford then to Boise City up through Kansas or to Dalhart, Clayton and connect to I-25 in Raton and other routes to mix it up. I can't stand I-70 through Kansas.

I've traveled by AmTrak from Kansas City to MA via Chicago, and there are definitely a lot of challenges to fix how it runs already before adding new service. For one thing, I believe a lot of the tracks are owned by the freight companies and if you are in a passenger train, you sometimes have to just sit and wait for the freight train traffic to clear. This makes it challenging, at least on some routes, to get where you are going on a schedule (I witnessed this more between Chicago and MA). Also, in my experience, the customer service wasn't that great, the bathrooms were disgusting. Just a lot of things that needed to to be corrected if you want to draw enough traffic to justify building more infrastructure.

Now with that being said, I wouldn't take back the experience in a second. I love road trips, and this was like taking a road trip without having to worry about watching the road, so there's definitely some plusses.

Agree. But would be very expensive. If OK could extend NW expressway from Okarche to connect into Hwy 3 to Watonga that would be a good start, as a lot of the state highways from there are divided 4 lane, but with at grade crossings. Get pretty good speeds through there without the price of a limited access road. Going off of the DrivingOklahoma cost to build the eastern OK county turnpike, it was $300 million for 21 miles. We'll say 15 million a mile for about $420 million to do Okarche to Watonga.

https://i.gyazo.com/fa0dadb9c682f92bc60ab40545564f1b.png This would be a several hundred billion dollar were it to be an interstate. I don't think we can expect it anytime soon :)

It was proposed as part of a massive toll roads package in the late 90's. It would have run more or less where you were indicating. Title 69-1705:


(15) A turnpike or any part or parts thereof beginning in the vicinity of Watonga and extending south and/or east to the vicinity of north and/or west Oklahoma City.


Needless to say it was squashed along with the others in that section as being wildly unprofitable. Would have been yet another drain on the Turner and Will Rogers cash cows.

This isn't a bad OKC/Denver route, but I also appreciate the nothingness of the Plains. Put on some good folk music and you're golden. https://goo.gl/maps/w3qhDsWc6D6Aetw8A

I don't think they need a toll road but continuing the diagonal from Okarche to near Watonga and then some sort of faster way around Woodward and Guymon would be a huge help.

Amtrak has proposed a massive overhaul and expansion which is very exciting! As you can see there is new Oklahoma service proposed which I'll post about in the Oklahoma Passenger Rail thread.

https://i.insider.com/60659ef0daf0f10018f9966d

https://www.businessinsider.com/map-amtrak-could-build-expanded-rail-network-biden-infrastructure-plan-2021-4

Looks like a minor addition of La Junta to Pueblo would open up DFW, Austin, Houston, OKC, Wichita, Kansas City and St Louis to a route to Denver, Salt Lake City and San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Low cost, high impact.

Looks like a minor addition of La Junta to Pueblo would open up DFW, Austin, Houston, OKC, Wichita, Kansas City and St Louis to a route to Denver, Salt Lake City and San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Low cost, high impact.
First thing I noticed looking at the map.

Interesting that Amtrak has existing routes that cover Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. I wonder how much of the Canadian population that manages to hit, I suspect it's a fairly big percentage.

What exactly does the "overhaul" mean? I've always wished for the day that there would be a bullet train from OKC to DFW, heck at this point I would take just a non-stop service from OKC to DFW. Also, OKC to Tulsa would be nice,

Interesting that Amtrak has existing routes that cover Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. I wonder how much of the Canadian population that manages to hit, I suspect it's a fairly big percentage.

I would think a good % of the riders to those cities are American tourists.
The fares are very competive. NYC to Montreal. $70.00

I was planning to do the NYC to Montreal thing last fall but pandemic.

^ My wife and I had been planning the same. I'm not counting on this year quite yet. Travel restrictions are still in place.

Looks like a minor addition of La Junta to Pueblo would open up DFW, Austin, Houston, OKC, Wichita, Kansas City and St Louis to a route to Denver, Salt Lake City and San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. Low cost, high impact.

60 miles ..

If the goal of this is to reduce travel by car and plane, I think it makes more sense for Amtrak to focus on high speed regional routes instead of trying to connect the whole country.

"Enhanced" service may mean more frequency

https://www.kten.com/story/43590782/amtrak-proposes-expanded-service-in-oklahoma-and-texas

"Enhanced" service may mean more frequency

https://www.kten.com/story/43590782/amtrak-proposes-expanded-service-in-oklahoma-and-texas
I would like more double tracking and perhaps some improvements to the section through the Arbuckle Mountains as well.

I've never traveled by train but below is a good YouTube video that explains Amtrak routes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anKNW1YHBoU

What exactly does the "overhaul" mean? I've always wished for the day that there would be a bullet train from OKC to DFW, heck at this point I would take just a non-stop service from OKC to DFW. Also, OKC to Tulsa would be nice,

The problem with OKC to Tulsa is that it would be a spur. The condition of the existing track between OKC and Tulsa is poor and it’s even worse as you go northeast toward St Louis. That would make the most sense as a connection (or north to Kansas City) but would be a major capital investment.

I wonder if the state showed any gall here (they're supposed to be legally required to pursue this per what the passenger rail OK twitter keeps saying), if the feds would then be willing to help. Such as if the state fully implemented the OKC-Tulsa line at it's cost, would the feds be willing to extend to STL, especially if MO contributed.

I wonder if the state showed any gall here (they're supposed to be legally required to pursue this per what the passenger rail OK twitter keeps saying), if the feds would then be willing to help. Such as if the state fully implemented the OKC-Tulsa line at it's cost, would the feds be willing to extend to STL, especially if MO contributed.

Possibly but there is little political will in Tulsa or in MO for this to happen, at least with current leadership. No mayors or more importantly congressmen to take up this issue.

Possibly but there is little political will in Tulsa or in MO for this to happen, at least with current leadership. No mayors or more importantly congressmen to take up this issue.
Not sure about Tulsa to NE but Tulsa definitely should be connected to OKC via train. The last proposal was an absolute joke that absolutely no one in their right mind would take unless they were rail geeks wanting to check it out or someone just doing it for leisure. I-44 is in the beginning stages of being widened to 6 lanes and modernized for its entire stretch between OKC-Tulsa. At the very least, the turnpike authority should be working with leaders or vice versa really to preserve ROW and design it to be easy to place a double tracked train line. I don't think a train averaging 110-120MPH is much to ask for. Run it 4-5 times a day each way with limited weekend service and connect to each downtown.

The problem with OKC to Tulsa is that it would be a spur. The condition of the existing track between OKC and Tulsa is poor and it’s even worse as you go northeast toward St Louis. That would make the most sense as a connection (or north to Kansas City) but would be a major capital investment.

I thought all the trillions in the infrastructure bill were for "major capital investments?"

Here’s the official Amtrak Connect Us website: https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/?utm_campaign=launch&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=hello_facebook._excited_t&fbclid=IwAR1_xCtjXuXP6qaZBD9ffxa9GG0-kWW0JSvBDMi_xsNs35sTxrWooOcgLdM

Not sure about Tulsa to NE but Tulsa definitely should be connected to OKC via train. The last proposal was an absolute joke that absolutely no one in their right mind would take unless they were rail geeks wanting to check it out or someone just doing it for leisure. I-44 is in the beginning stages of being widened to 6 lanes and modernized for its entire stretch between OKC-Tulsa. At the very least, the turnpike authority should be working with leaders or vice versa really to preserve ROW and design it to be easy to place a double tracked train line. I don't think a train averaging 110-120MPH is much to ask for. Run it 4-5 times a day each way with limited weekend service and connect to each downtown.

What do the projections show the ridership to be for this kind of service?

I would go to Tulsa on the regular if there were a train, and in particular to A LOT more of the shows there that are borderline of interest to me.

I would go to Tulsa on the regular if there were a train, and in particular to A LOT more of the shows there that are borderline of interest to me.

Yes, this, absolutely. Can't afford to stay at a hotel there each time I'd go to a show, and no fun spending 90 minutes driving up there, going to a show after having dealt with that, then totally killing any kind of after-show buzz, enjoyment, high, whatever by driving 90 minutes home.

I just wish the OKC-Fort Worth train would run twice a day instead of once. Arriving at 9:30pm to OKC is not ideal.