View Full Version : 2021 Oklahoma City Aviation Thread
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catch22 10-29-2021, 11:34 AM Understood. It's a shame considering how much the UA product has improved (esp compared to AA) for biz travelers. Really not sure what to do in 2022 -- Delta isn't a much better connectivity option either.
Out of curiosity where are you having trouble connecting via UA?
In theory United should be the #1 connecting airline in OKC when you factor the perfect equidistance OKC is from IAH, DEN, and ORD . If I am UA I would be running mainline to all 3 hubs on the first flight to each of those hubs. And then E175’s the rest of the day. DEN should be 6 daily, ORD should be 5 daily, and IAH is fine at 9 daily.
Why the weak schedule - I don’t know.
s00nr1 10-29-2021, 12:38 PM Out of curiosity where are you having trouble connecting via UA?
In theory United should be the #1 connecting airline in OKC when you factor the perfect equidistance OKC is from IAH, DEN, and ORD . If I am UA I would be running mainline to all 3 hubs on the first flight to each of those hubs. And then E175’s the rest of the day. DEN should be 6 daily, ORD should be 5 daily, and IAH is fine at 9 daily.
Why the weak schedule - I don’t know.
It's not the where (except losing the SFO n/s), it's the when. Prior to the pandemic, UA was perfect for me getting to customers on the west coast (via SFO), the northeast (via EWR/IAD), and Canada (via DEN/EWR). A lot of those options don't align now.
chssooner 10-29-2021, 01:11 PM It's not the where (except losing the SFO n/s), it's the when. Prior to the pandemic, UA was perfect for me getting to customers on the west coast (via SFO), the northeast (via EWR/IAD), and Canada (via DEN/EWR). A lot of those options don't align now.
SFO will be coming back, guaranteed. EWR, should, as well. Maybe not to the same degree, but they will be back.
catch22 10-29-2021, 01:31 PM It's not the where (except losing the SFO n/s), it's the when. Prior to the pandemic, UA was perfect for me getting to customers on the west coast (via SFO), the northeast (via EWR/IAD), and Canada (via DEN/EWR). A lot of those options don't align now.
Gotcha. EWR resumes daily in January on an E175. DEN connections are increasingly getting more robust as we add depth to banks. SFO will resume someday. But it’s not on the radar yet with Transpacific demand still in the red.
brianinok 10-30-2021, 10:36 AM Gotcha. EWR resumes daily in January on an E175. DEN connections are increasingly getting more robust as we add depth to banks. SFO will resume someday. But it’s not on the radar yet with Transpacific demand still in the red.Do you think SFO is a safe bet by summer 2022, or should I shy away from booking that if I absolutely need a non-stop?
catch22 10-30-2021, 11:16 AM No. United’s published schedule beyond 60 days is not solid. Passenger booking and cancel patterns have begun to stabilize so United is about to return the firm schedule to a 90 day window like pre-pandemic. So anything you see within 2 months will for sure stick, and 3 months will be likely to stick. Anything beyond that I wouldn’t trust too much.
brianinok 10-30-2021, 11:32 AM No. United’s published schedule beyond 60 days is not solid. Passenger booking and cancel patterns have begun to stabilize so United is about to return the firm schedule to a 90 day window like pre-pandemic. So anything you see within 2 months will for sure stick, and 3 months will be likely to stick. Anything beyond that I wouldn’t trust too much.It just seems crazy to me that United won't bring back SFO. Alaska is making a daily 737 flight work to SEA but United doesn't think they can make an E175 work to SFO? I would think SFO (not to mention OAK and SJC to siphon from) would have the same or better O&D demand as SEA, plus it's better positioned for west coast connections than SEA. But what do I know...
Maybe I should start planning a different extended family trip next summer. Somewhere nonstop from OKC.
catch22 10-30-2021, 12:01 PM UA’s operation in SFO is built to support the transpacific network. Any domestic connections there are not by design but by and large coincidental. Without the transpacific network running at full steam they are using resources elsewhere (like domestic) that can make money.
Any NW connections from SFO can be accommodated via DEN; there’s no reason to overfly DEN for some low yield connections to the NW. Alaska does not have the same network, it’s SEA or nothing for the most part. UA has lower cost methods to handle domestic connections that don’t involve an expensive flight to SFO.
catch22 10-30-2021, 12:08 PM Phrased another way: SFO-OKC-SFO uses roughly 8 hours of aircraft time. That aircraft can work out of DEN and fly 2 shorter flights and double the amount of passengers it can carry in the same amount of time. 76 people on a 3.5 hour flight, or 152 people on 2 - 1.5 hour flights? The 76 people on the 3.5 hour flight are bringing in the same revenue potential as the 76 people on 1 1.5 hour flight but are eating up double the amount of aircraft time. The answer is easy for United.
sooner333 10-31-2021, 09:47 AM @catch -- Is it me or is United just completely dumping the OKC market? Of late they are considerably more expensive on just about every r/t flight than all other OKC carriers, and they also seem to have greatly reduced connectivity from OKC. It's really hurting my ability to stay a United elite.
I have booked a couple of flights this year where UA is the cheapest option for the times I wanted to travel. These were both flights to markets WN does not service, so maybe that made a difference. AA seemed like they usually had a similar priced or cheaper option, but only for the first flight of the day.
Statik07 10-31-2021, 06:35 PM General aviation anyone? KPWA, Wiley post airport
s00nr1 10-31-2021, 10:44 PM September report is out:
Enplanement:
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/September%202021%20Enplanement%20Report.pdf
Aviation Activity:
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/September%202021%20Aviation%20Activity.pdf
Snowman 10-31-2021, 11:08 PM September report is out:
Enplanement:
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/September%202021%20Enplanement%20Report.pdf
Aviation Activity:
https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/September%202021%20Aviation%20Activity.pdf
It seems like for 2021 it might be better to either compare to pre pandemic statistics or compare to both last year and pre pandemic statistics .
catch22 10-31-2021, 11:41 PM AA beat WN again in traffic.
s00nr1 11-01-2021, 05:25 PM AA beat WN again in traffic.
Definitely a stronger bounce back than WN. I'm not sure if that is a matter of capacity or what.
Plutonic Panda 11-02-2021, 01:34 AM LaGuardia service begins today:
https://www.velocityokc.com/blog/inside-okc/american-airlines-offers-a-brand-new-nonstop-flight-from-okc-to-nyc/?back=super_blog
catch22 11-02-2021, 10:53 AM Appears Breeze is discontinuing OKC-SAT/MSY. I expect WN to drop OKC-MSY now, if they still are on it.
HangryHippo 11-02-2021, 10:54 AM Losing MSY sucks! And you're absolutely right about SW.
amocore 11-02-2021, 03:42 PM it is a bummer Breeze already cutting flights out of OKC. It seems to be the same out of Tulsa. No more SAT and Nola after November.
hopefully, the Tampa flight will stick around. We have been using it already !
dcsooner 11-02-2021, 05:40 PM Losing MSY sucks! And you're absolutely right about SW.
Why? New Orleans sucks unless you like great food and getting drunk. Nothing in the city outside of the 4 -5 Square mile DT area
mugofbeer 11-02-2021, 06:21 PM I can't speak for all flights for all airlines but l 've used SW multiple times Denver to OKC in recent months, even direct thru Houston a couple of times, and every flight has been totally sold out or very close to it. This includes different times on different days. I am beginning to wonder if the only thing holding traffic numbers back may simply be a shortage of flights, not passengers.
When SW schedule crashed (term intended) a couple of weeks ago, l had to take Delta thru Minneapolis to get to Denver and the Delta flight was about half full.
LakeEffect 11-02-2021, 07:12 PM I can't speak for all flights for all airlines but l 've used SW multiple times Denver to OKC in recent months, even direct thru Houston a couple of times, and every flight has been totally sold out or very close to it. This includes different times on different days. I am beginning to wonder if the only thing holding traffic numbers back may simply be a shortage of flights, not passengers.
When SW schedule crashed (term intended) a couple of weeks ago, l had to take Delta thru Minneapolis to get to Denver and the Delta flight was about half full.
This article from today hits at some of that issue... https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/press-play-with-madeleine-brand/climate-airlines-comedy-dormitories/travel-holidays-higher-prices-crowds
Jeepnokc 11-02-2021, 09:27 PM Appears Breeze is discontinuing OKC-SAT/MSY. I expect WN to drop OKC-MSY now, if they still are on it.
Any more details Catch? My son is scheduled Nov 28 OKC-MSY on Breeze
catch22 11-02-2021, 09:49 PM Any more details Catch? My son is scheduled Nov 28 OKC-MSY on Breeze
That (11/28) is the last operating date for that route.
unfundedrick 11-02-2021, 10:36 PM This is my post about Breeze from last May. I was responding to another poster.
Quote Originally Posted by damonsmuz View Post
"Now we wait to see how other airlines respond to Breeze. The legacy carriers may not care much since AA and United run hubs through DFW and IAH. The only airline that may do something about Breeze would be Southwest. Will they bring back DAL or open up new routes to SAT and New Orleans ? Time will only tell I guess..."
I think it would have to be daily service and last for more than 6 months before any of the other airlines will give it a second thought.
damonsmuz 11-08-2021, 05:10 PM Just checking. Has United resumed service from OKC-IAD? I thought I saw it came back but can't find it when booking.
amocore 11-08-2021, 05:32 PM With the borders finally re opening today and the Transatlantic traffic getting a boost; we should see the return of this flight and some others very soon.
Hopefully, the government will stop requiring covid test on reentry for vaccinated travelers soon. It is really the sword of Damocles when you have to go abroad.
BG918 11-10-2021, 12:06 AM SAT and MSY are already thin routes. Throw in a new airline and non-daily service and I couldn’t see those sticking. Southwest could likely make both routes work but the 737 is too much capacity for daily service. Allegiant could likely give it another go especially MSY. Hoping the TPA flights stay from OKC and TUL. It would be great to see CHS added at some point.
no1cub17 11-10-2021, 06:28 PM Understood. It's a shame considering how much the UA product has improved (esp compared to AA) for biz travelers. Really not sure what to do in 2022 -- Delta isn't a much better connectivity option either.
Ugh - we're in exactly the same boat. I am sick of AA and their complete trash product, but UA and DL just don't come close in terms of connectivity from OKC. It just stuns me that neither UA or DL will compete with AA on a route like OKC-LAX. Hell, DL hasn't even resumed DTW. But with DL not expanding here one bit, and UA completely cutting my hometown AZO, I guess we're stuck with AA for now. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.
s00nr1 11-14-2021, 08:54 AM Trying out the nonstop service to TPA on Breeze this morning. I'll report back on the in flight experience. 1721017211
BG918 11-14-2021, 07:18 PM Trying out the nonstop service to TPA on Breeze this morning. I'll report back on the in flight experience. 1721017211
Interested to hear your experience. Tampa is somewhere I've never visited and have thought about it for a long weekend trip with the wife now that there are non-stops.
amocore 11-15-2021, 09:02 AM I used Breeze to go to TPA, my wife two times.
No complain at all. It is a low cost but their baggage fees are low and their Embraer 195 is a the biggest regional jet so it feels fine.
A nice treat to be able to go to this area so quickly. The quickest way to go to the beach from OKC I think. Fly out on Thursday and come back on Sunday morning with them or afternoon with SW.
Celebrator 11-15-2021, 10:51 PM Looked at the schedule at a couple dates both short term and a few months out and did not see the WN nonstop to BNA in the schedule. Any one have any info?
catch22 11-16-2021, 12:12 AM Probably a casualty of them trimming their network to account for staffing shortages. They are a complete mess at the moment. That tells us it wasn’t extremely profitable and was an easy cut to free up some slack in the network.
OKCbyTRANSFER 11-16-2021, 02:29 AM I'm not really liking this WN not serving OKC to DAL LUV anymore. Flights to Philly were cheaper and easier to get both ways faster on AA.
amocore 11-18-2021, 10:23 AM https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/22-04%20October%20Enplanement%20Email_0.pdf
We should finish with 3.2 millions passengers for the calendar year. Not so bad according to the circumstances.
s00nr1 11-18-2021, 02:05 PM https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/News/22-04%20October%20Enplanement%20Email_0.pdf
We should finish with 3.2 millions passengers for the calendar year. Not so bad according to the circumstances.
Every flight into and out of OKC I've been on the past several weeks (quite a few) has been at full capacity. Come on United -- upgauge the equipment to DEN already.
HOT ROD 11-18-2021, 10:44 PM would be great to have a daily 757 DEN-OKC mid-day.
s00nr1 11-19-2021, 03:05 PM would be great to have a daily 757 DEN-OKC mid-day.
I don't need a 757 but a consistent E75 would be nice.... IAH now too apparently.
s00nr1 11-19-2021, 11:18 PM I don't need a 757 but a consistent E75 would be nice.... IAH now too apparently.
Case in point, on a CR2 to IAH Monday.
catch22 11-20-2021, 10:41 AM Yeah. That sucks.
United does intend to draw down the 50 seat fleet at some point in the mid-future. There’s no reason we should be flying them to a market the size of OKC. And there are plenty of routes we fly them on. It’s not just OKC. United has had a narrowbody shortage since 2003. Decades of poor management decisions are being reversed since 2015, but it takes a long time and a lot of money to shore up such a deficit of network capacity. A fleet the size of United’s will always have aircraft being retired. So you have to order way more than your current fleet size in order to grow it when you account for fleet attrition. I think United will be in a better spot after next year. I think we will be accepting a new aircraft every 3 days next year. That’s an impressive feat.
BG918 11-20-2021, 02:19 PM Recently flew two international flights in premium economy one with United and the other Lufthansa. In the past Lufthansa would win hands down but thought United’s product was equal or better, at least on their newer 787-9 aircraft.
Downwind17 11-20-2021, 05:36 PM Case in point, on a CR2 to IAH Monday.
Even TUL has mainline service from both DEN and IAH…an airport with half the traffic of OKC. Not sure it’s a UAL fleet problem. Sounds more like a conscience decision by UAL to not compete for market share in OKC.
catch22 11-20-2021, 09:11 PM Historically UA has served TUL with more mainline at the expense of frequency and/or destinations.
In UA’s OKC peak, which I would say was 2013, OKC had service to every single hub, while TUL had mainline service but only had DEN, ORD, and IAH. So UA still offered way more capacity in OKC, but with higher frequency and more nonstop service at the expense of larger airplanes.
I bet if you compared the actual capacity that OKC still has more seats available vs TUL for United. UA is less competitive in TUL and can get away with less flights on larger airplanes.
BG918 11-21-2021, 03:00 AM I would take OKC’s level of service vs mainline to a few select cities. I wish UA would do TUL-SFO and resume IAD and EWR (IAD not as likely now that AA serves DCA)
G.Walker 11-21-2021, 06:12 AM Why? New Orleans sucks unless you like great food and getting drunk. Nothing in the city outside of the 4 -5 Square mile DT area
Well who doesn't like great food and getting drunk? lol
Richard at Remax 11-22-2021, 09:26 AM SO is direct to MSY now DOA on all carriers now?
Jeepnokc 11-22-2021, 10:02 AM SO is direct to MSY now DOA on all carriers now?
My son is on the last breeze flight on Sunday to MSY then the route is discontinued.
BG918 11-22-2021, 02:08 PM SO is direct to MSY now DOA on all carriers now?
Yep for now. MSY can’t seem to stick. Maybe Allegiant could try it eventually.
unfundedrick 11-22-2021, 10:47 PM Anything that is less than daily service is basically limited to leisure travelers. Business travelers have to have more flexibility about when they can travel.
s00nr1 12-01-2021, 12:20 PM Thrilled to report United has resumed mainline service from DEN in the form of an A319 I am on today. Not sure about United’s long-term plan for OKC but hopefully this is just the start.
no1cub17 12-02-2021, 09:42 AM Thrilled to report United has resumed mainline service from DEN in the form of an A319 I am on today. Not sure about United’s long-term plan for OKC but hopefully this is just the start.
Still way too little mainline capacity from UA all around. Hopefully as the 200+ MAX start to come in, that frees up more mainline capacity for OKC. But at least this is something!
catch22 12-08-2021, 11:14 AM Southwest beginning 4x weekly OKC-SAT eff APR 2022.
catch22 12-08-2021, 11:25 AM Also some information that isn’t especially relevant now, but may be in the future.
Allegiant is seeking an anti-trust immunity joint venture with Viva Aerobus (Mexico) to coordinate schedules, share costs, and split revenues on USA/MEX travel. This gives Allegiant some more opportunity down south. Why am I posting this here? This could open the door for Allegiant or Viva to begin service to Mexico out of OKC. OKC was not initially identified in their application as a target market, but it is interesting and will be something to follow. If successful I am sure they will expand it.
Of course, pending DOJ and DOT approval.
Jersey Boss 12-08-2021, 01:01 PM I would imagine Mexico would also have to approve
amocore 12-08-2021, 05:07 PM Southwest beginning 4x weekly OKC-SAT eff APR 2022.
Hopefully the 4 times a week will help this route stick around. Frontier and Breeze failed but it was only two times a week so not very convenient.
Press release:
*****************
Southwest Airlines Announces Nonstop Service
to San Antonio International Airport
OKLAHOMA CITY, December 9, 2021 – Southwest Airlines announced today that it will begin nonstop service from Oklahoma City’s Will Rogers World Airport to San Antonio International Airport in San Antonio, Texas (SAT) beginning April 25, 2022.
“Southwest Airlines continues to grow in OKC, and San Antonio is a great market for our leisure and business travelers” says Jeff Mulder, Director of Airports. “We appreciate Southwest’ commitment to our community by adding more destinations for our passengers.”
The flights to San Antonio will take place on Sunday, Monday, Thursday, and Friday with one flight each day roundtrip. Southwest also announced they will be increasing their flights from Oklahoma City to Houston to four times daily Sunday through Friday starting in April.
As of today’s announcement, Southwest’s nonstop destinations from WRWA includes Atlanta, Chicago Midway, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, Nashville, New Orleans, Orlando, Phoenix, St. Louis, San Antonio, Tampa and Ronald Reagan Washington National. The new service will bring the average number of daily departures by Southwest to 14.
catch22 12-09-2021, 10:34 AM I always scoop the airport lol.
Side note: who is Jeff Mulder? What happened to Mark Kranenberg?
BoulderSooner 12-09-2021, 10:59 AM I always scoop the airport lol.
Side note: who is Jeff Mulder? What happened to Mark Kranenberg?
retired
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/10/22/okc-officials-announce-new-leadership-three-airports-friday/6134054001/
Anonymous. 12-09-2021, 04:18 PM Also some information that isn’t especially relevant now, but may be in the future.
Allegiant is seeking an anti-trust immunity joint venture with Viva Aerobus (Mexico) to coordinate schedules, share costs, and split revenues on USA/MEX travel. This gives Allegiant some more opportunity down south. Why am I posting this here? This could open the door for Allegiant or Viva to begin service to Mexico out of OKC. OKC was not initially identified in their application as a target market, but it is interesting and will be something to follow. If successful I am sure they will expand it.
Of course, pending DOJ and DOT approval.
I was on a OKC-HOU-CUN flight recently on a Wednesday in December and there was almost 20 OKC people connecting with me. I feel like demand is there.
Perhaps it is taking so long because WRWA cannot accept international arrivals? IDK how all that works.
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