is WRWA the main diversion airport for DFW?

Seems like OKC should try to capitalize on that (not in a negative way), maybe having pax exit into the terminal and have something to do/eat?

There is not really main diversion airports designated by the FAA, pilots/companies just have to designate an alternate, then carry enough fuel to arrive at main destination and depending on a few criteria either 30 minutes extra or 45 minutes extra of normal flight. So will likely either stop at one of the closest to the airport they can or one along their route if have more warning. There are closer regional airports than OKC most could land at, though may be impacted by the same storms causing issues for DFW so have to go further out, and a ring of similarly distant alternates with runways similarly sized to OKC from Dallas though some have larger or smaller terminals. It is infrequent enough it seems it would be hard for businesses to really grow off.

Plenty of considerations are taken into account when planning diversion airports for a hub. While there is no official “diversion” airport, some are better options than others and become the default for airlines. OKC has plenty of ramp space and more importantly is an “online” station. I.e. AA already serves the station and has staffing in place. Diversions are expensive and diverting to a station with limited resources only compounds issues.

OKC works well for AA at DFW. BHM is DL’s “go-to” diversion airport for ATL. At DEN we are somewhat limited as there aren’t many good options nearby. COS gets a lot but it is too close, so is often under the same weather that affects DEN.

Diversions almost never come to a gate, unless there’s a passenger emergency. They are called “gas-and-gos” - coming to a gate and letting pax out in a random city is never a good idea as it is hard to get everyone back into the plane on time. Once the ground stop lifts, ATC begins sequencing the departures and gives a wheels up time that needs to be complied with. Often these come through with very little warning, and sitting at the gate trying to find Party of 3 smith so you can pushback and race to the runway is a great way to miss your time window. So there is very little to capitalize on with diversions.

Spotter alert:

UA 777-300 coming in from March AFB. 5pm arrival. Going out to SFO.

I recently flew on United Airlines from IAH to OKC and noticed that United has 2 flights to OKC from IAH scheduled very close together. One leaves at 7:40pm and the next flight to OKC leaves 20 mins later, at 8p. Both on an EMB-175.

I found the flight times to be so close to each other a bit odd. Is it better to operate 2 EMB-175 flights to OKC within 20 mins or operate 1 A-319/320 flight instead? Both flights were full, so over 140 passengers between the 2 flights on the day I flew out. Seems like a mainline flight would be better here than 2 regionals.

Someone, I am assuming Catch22, would be able to shed light on the reason for the reason United is using regionals vs maineline here.

They probably needed the aircraft in OKC for the morning bank, but there was no reason to have the trip depart IAH any later. They aren’t running their full late night bank anymore so there’s no reason to just sit on an airplane, they are also not running the 7am departure out of IAH anymore to OKC which would normally make up the 9:00am departure

The 5:05am, 7:00am, and 9:00am departures are all made up of overnighters.

United Airlines announced a bunch of new routes this fall that are clearly targeted towards College Football fans. Weekend flights only. Sadly, no Big 10 routes were added. If this new route scheduling continues for the next few years, than OKC may get a few temporary P2P routes.

17013

this is a great idea that hopefully sticks with OKC becoming a major feature. Actually surprised it took this long for somebody to do it.

UA has done it for a few years now. DL has been doing it for a while too.

I could see the following in the future:
OKC-BTR for OU/LSU
OKC-BHM for OU/Alabama
OKC-GNV for OU/Florida

don't forget Auburn, aTm, and Georgia.

don't forget Auburn, aTm, and Georgia.

we have flights to houston and atlanta already ..

Breeze having a big sale

https://www.facebook.com/150485704976382/posts/4524437160914526/?d=n

July is up

https://flyokc.com/sites/default/files/22-01%20July%20Enplanement%20Email%20%28002%29.pdf

AA still leading the way.
Breeze with a strong start.
United up 30% over June.

AA and Alaska passenger numbers are actually larger in July of 2021 than July of 2019.

AA is obviously operating way more capacity. Alaska is too, now that they are operating the 737-900 to OKC, instead of the A320, 178 and 149 seats respectively.

Numbers look good...compared to last year. If anyone at the airport is following this thread, any chance you can also add 2019 stats, too. To give us a comparison to pre-pandemic levels? Mkkkthanks :)

AA is obviously operating way more capacity. Alaska is too, now that they are operating the 737-900 to OKC, instead of the A320, 178 and 149 seats respectively.

I think it is amazing that Alaska is flying their largest aircraft in the fleet to OKC--that route must be doing great for them, as it started out as an E-jet route. Would love to know how many folks connect at SEA to PDX on those flights.

Has Delta been in 3rd place before? I don't recall them jumping over United previously...

I think it is amazing that Alaska is flying their largest aircraft in the fleet to OKC--that route must be doing great for them, as it started out as an E-jet route. Would love to know how many folks connect at SEA to PDX on those flights.

My guess is this plane is probably the biggest passenger one flying into OKC. I cant think of anything else bigger except if Frontier uses an A 321 sometimes here.

AA has been operating an A321 into OKC quite regularly lately. Seats 181.

AA has been operating an A321 into OKC quite regularly lately. Seats 181.

on the DFW route?

AA is obviously operating way more capacity. Alaska is too, now that they are operating the 737-900 to OKC, instead of the A320, 178 and 149 seats respectively.

Which is great too see the numbers rise as capacity rises. Validates their decision to up-size, hopefully gives them more confidence in the market.

AA will keep growing with the AUS directs coming this fall. Isn't LGA coming back too?

on the DFW route?

Yes.

on the DFW route?

And they have been going with A319s and A320s along with CRJ9 to CLT, which has been a nice consistent up-gauge trend to see.

And they have been going with A319s and A320s along with CRJ9 to CLT, which has been a nice consistent up-gauge trend to see.
My goodness American is just the best (for okc).

It sure would be nice to have Delta step up and provide some new service with the opening of the four new gates...three of which become their new home.

Probably shouldn't hold my breath for that...as Delta doesn't seem too interested in OKC expansion.

It sure would be nice to have Delta step up and provide some new service with the opening of the four new gates...three of which become their new home.

Probably shouldn't hold my breath for that...as Delta doesn't seem too interested in OKC expansion.

Where can they go that would justify adding a new route? You talking additional service on existing routes, or new destinations that aren't hubs? We can hope that this will allow airlines near American's gates to move, so American can continue to expand.

Where can they go that would justify adding a new route? You talking additional service on existing routes, or new destinations that aren't hubs? We can hope that this will allow airlines near American's gates to move, so American can continue to expand.

It would have to be point-to-point, something unlikely to happen with Delta. But, if it could, new service to Boston, San Diego and Ft. Lauderdale (when cruises are back in full) would pretty much complete OKC's air service needs.

I don't know what will happen with Delta's three current gates. If there will be a shift to put AA in the middle and move SW to Delta's old gates, that would be great.

It would have to be point-to-point, something unlikely to happen with Delta. But, if it could, new service to Boston, San Diego and Ft. Lauderdale (when cruises are back in full) would pretty much complete OKC's air service needs.

I don't know what will happen with Delta's three current gates. If there will be a shift to put AA in the middle and move SW to Delta's old gates, that would be great.

Delta did bump up to 3rd place in overall numbers last month, so they're quietly increasing their importance. They could do Austin or an LA flight to hit more southwest/west coast locations. Austin was supposedly going to be a new focus city of theirs.

Delta did bump up to 3rd place in overall numbers last month, so they're quietly increasing their importance. They could do Austin or an LA flight to hit more southwest/west coast locations. Austin was supposedly going to be a new focus city of theirs.

How much more capacity does OKC need to AUS with AA and Southwest starting daily flights

We dont !

We want a flight to Cancun when the pandemy is controlled and the new international gate opens !

The most logical new service Delta could provide would be to resume the nonstop service to their hub in Detroit.

Who is the employer for the office workers at the airport?

Example, I was waiting for a flight and was walking down to the left past security, and up above I could see offices, who do those people up there in the offices work for?

I searched and found okc department of airports, also wrwa search results in concession and parking/ rental cars.

Thanks

Who is the employer for the office workers at the airport?

Example, I was waiting for a flight and was walking down to the left past security, and up above I could see offices, who do those people up there in the offices work for?

I searched and found okc department of airports, also wrwa search results in concession and parking/ rental cars.

Thanks

Yes, they are employees of the city's Department of Airports. They handle everything for WRWA and the city's other municipal airports, Wiley Post and CE Page.

That mezzanine office level would make a good club location if we ever got one, I always thought.

That mezzanine office level would make a good club location if we ever got one, I always thought.

Most may not remember but Delta had a club at one time along one of the concourses back when there were two spoke concourses. I don't think I ever saw it staffed when I went in but it was decent.

This may affect Southwest adding OKC-AUS. Or their other retaliatory additions (MSY, TPA)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2021/08/20/southwest-airlines-flight-cancellations-delays-changes-fourth-quarter-cuts/8210108002/

Fair use:


Southwest Chief Operating Officer Mike Van de Ven told employees in a memo Friday that the airline continues to face operational challenges and is looking into reducing fall flights. The latter would mean more flight changes or cancellations for travelers who already purchased tickets, a problem that has persisted throughout the pandemic.

The most logical new service Delta could provide would be to resume the nonstop service to their hub in Detroit.

Yes! I'm kind of surprised they haven't resumed OKC-DTW. Then again with the delta variant wreaking havoc again, maybe it's not too surprising.

I would also really like DL or UA to start OKC-LAX nonstops - then we could ditch AA for good.

we used to have OKC-LAX nonstops on UA but they used an incredibly inferior airplane and lost out completely once AA swooped in and dominated the route.

Definitely would love United to resume all of their hub access, this time with a better LAX plane.

AA operated the exact same equipment to LAX that United was using. There was nothing inferior about it during the time UA was on the route. UA dropped OKC-LAX because of a shift of network strategy. The flights were a good performer for UA, but the role of LAX in the network at large changed. In 2013 or 2014 United focused on beefing up SFO and transitioning LAX away from connecting volume. West coast connecting volume was shifted to SFO to bolster the powerhouse Transpacific network. LAX lost quite a bit of flying and OKC was one of many victims.

AA shifted to E175's after UA pulled off of the route, or around the same time that United was cutting it. Their upgrade of equipment was irrelevant to UA as UA was already scaling back in LAX.

Fun fact: AA is operating the "incredibly inferior" CRJ-700 again on the route right now.

gotta start somewhere

Is UA's SFO gone forever? Could have sworn I saw it while browsing a few weeks ago. Today, nada - even six months out.

It will come back. Transpacific demand, as well as business demand in/out of SFO is still pretty tepid.

San Francisco was absolutely dead a few weeks ago in their downtown. Very eerie to see. Nowhere else in Cali is like that

I've wondered if OAK or SJC could eventually be added by Southwest. OAK in particular is one of their biggest stations on the West Coast and is great for Hawaii connections. Easier to navigate than SFO if visiting the Bay Area, IMO.

I’m curious what our aviation experts here think about the conceptual supersonic commercial airliners… will it actually make it this time?

https://boomsupersonic.com/united

Funny, NASA just posted about X-59 progress today.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUK3zOeF7US/


The X-59 aircraft is taking shape at the Lockheed Martin facility in Palmdale, California. The team positioned the X-59 QueSST's nose at the front of the aircraft.

�� As one of the more recognizable features of the X-59, the nose makes up almost a third of the aircraft length & will be essential in shaping shock waves during supersonic flight, resulting in quiet sonic thumps instead of loud sonic booms.

�� �� The nose was attached & then removed from the front of the aircraft in preparation for its shipment to Fort Worth, Texas where it will undergo additional testing.

✈️ The X-59 will fly at supersonic speeds above communities as part of the Low-Boom Flight Demonstration mission, during which NASA will gather community feedback to the sound of quiet supersonic flight. These findings will be shared with regulators to inform decisions on current restrictions of supersonic flight over land.

Really it's going to come down to the input they get I suspect.

I’m curious what our aviation experts here think about the conceptual supersonic commercial airliners… will it actually make it this time?

https://boomsupersonic.com/united

While I would be excited if it happened— especially working for United; that project is full of challenges and is a bit pie-in-the-sky. (Lack of) Experience in manufacturing and the certification process is going to be a significant hurdle for them to overcome; not to mention the engineering and financial burdens such a project will face.

I hope they can do it but I wouldn’t be planning on it happening.

With Kansas City's new airport opening in early 2023 I wonder if Southwest will build up its base there and resume non-stops to OKC and TUL

While I would be excited if it happened— especially working for United; that project is full of challenges and is a bit pie-in-the-sky. (Lack of) Experience in manufacturing and the certification process is going to be a significant hurdle for them to overcome; not to mention the engineering and financial burdens such a project will face.

I hope they can do it but I wouldn’t be planning on it happening.

Not an engineer, but I'm curious how much engine technology has progressed? Their insanely high fuel burn was ultimately the downfall of the prior supersonic airliner(s).

Tech hasn’t advanced on supersonic engines as rapidly as subsonic commercial turbofan platforms. Airlines drive a huge need for efficiency, while the military (the only market for supersonic engines) really doesn’t care about fuel efficiency or emissions.

Tech hasn’t advanced on supersonic engines as rapidly as subsonic commercial turbofan platforms. Airlines drive a huge need for efficiency, while the military (the only market for supersonic engines) really doesn’t care about fuel efficiency or emissions.

It's going to be very hard. They will have to create planes with low sonic booms/noise and low cost per seat for fuel with enough speed and seat space/comfort to make high cost tickets desirable.

I'm more interested in liquid hydrogen jet fuel for zero emissions flight.

I'm not keeping up with the schedule in OKC as much these days, but United is about to go on the offensive in Newark with a pretty dramatic ramp up in flights. Might see this OKC-EWR flight come back soon if it hasn't already.

I'm not keeping up with the schedule in OKC as much these days, but United is about to go on the offensive in Newark with a pretty dramatic ramp up in flights. Might see this OKC-EWR flight come back soon if it hasn't already.That'd be nice. I know they haven't started the OKC-SFO flights yet because I've been waiting to schedule a trip for those to return. I am eyeing next summer now, though. Surely that flight will return by then. You can book it, of course, but it's a dummy schedule.

I'm not keeping up with the schedule in OKC as much these days, but United is about to go on the offensive in Newark with a pretty dramatic ramp up in flights. Might see this OKC-EWR flight come back soon if it hasn't already.

Nice - I know you said UA has shifted their LAX strategy, but I sure wouldn't mind if they added OKC-LAX too. Of course would be great if OKC-EWR comes back, and maybe even 2x/day to better enable connections to Europe/India (assuming the world ever returns to normal).

Kpwa anyone?

@catch -- Is it me or is United just completely dumping the OKC market? Of late they are considerably more expensive on just about every r/t flight than all other OKC carriers, and they also seem to have greatly reduced connectivity from OKC. It's really hurting my ability to stay a United elite.

I wish I had a better answer for you. It’s been a frustration for many years. For some reason or another OKC just never fits into United’s formula very well. I will say that any time they offer more capacity to OKC a large percentage of it goes unfilled. For some reason the product is not tailored to the OKC market very well, as the market does not respond to their stimulation as well as it does say AA or WN.

It’s hard for them to justify the investment when the market doesn’t respond profitably. So I don’t think they pick winners and losers, the market does and it has never responded well to UA’s presence. They could offer more flights and reduce price, but that doesn’t help when other cities can reliably and profitably fill those same seats without being as competitive on price. It would seem the market strategy for them is to offer just enough seats to capture loyal fliers, and leave the cost sensitive pax to airlines who want to compete for them. Basically pricing out the lower tier traveler.

I wish I had a better answer for you. It’s been a frustration for many years. For some reason or another OKC just never fits into United’s formula very well. I will say that any time they offer more capacity to OKC a large percentage of it goes unfilled. For some reason the product is not tailored to the OKC market very well, as the market does not respond to their stimulation as well as it does say AA or WN.

It’s hard for them to justify the investment when the market doesn’t respond profitably. So I don’t think they pick winners and losers, the market does and it has never responded well to UA’s presence. They could offer more flights and reduce price, but that doesn’t help when other cities can reliably and profitably fill those same seats without being as competitive on price. It would seem the market strategy for them is to offer just enough seats to capture loyal fliers, and leave the cost sensitive pax to airlines who want to compete for them. Basically pricing out the lower tier traveler.

Understood. It's a shame considering how much the UA product has improved (esp compared to AA) for biz travelers. Really not sure what to do in 2022 -- Delta isn't a much better connectivity option either.

Delta isn't a much better connectivity option either.

Nope. Wish Delta would step up too...