This is not correct. The COVID vaccines are not approved,they are authorized by the FDA. They were authorized for emergency use. This is the reason the military cannot mandate the vaccine.

Yes, this is correct. I was using "approved" generally to refer to emergency authorization use, which for almost almost all practical purposes (except some rare exceptions like military requirement) is the same as full FDA approval, to differentiate between Pfizer, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson from all the other vaccines available globally. In this case, it was just a matter of more time and data. The vaccines will likely all have full FDA approval in the coming months. The point of my post was that all three vaccines are incredibly effective.

This is not correct. The COVID vaccines are not approved,they are authorized by the FDA. They were authorized for emergency use. This is the reason the military cannot mandate the vaccine.

Seriously, don't invoke the military in this. Those who have served, are serving, and will serve do not process the risk or inconvenience to themselves against saving other Americans. They take so much greater risk and suffer much more than anyone will suffer from a vaccine.

Just say "thank you". To those who serve. To those who served tirelessly to try and get us out of this. And just do your part.

One day, when you're old, and you will be old, hopefully no one throws the bureaucracy at your ass when there's a cure for which you and your friends are dying.

^^^
What are you talking about? They didn’t make a commentary on those who serve in any way. They just pointed out that the military can’t require the vaccine until it’s fully approved by the FDA.

By all expectations, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine has incredible efficacy rates. When the pandemic started, most epidemiologists didn't expect we'd have a vaccine that reduces infection and death as well as this vaccine has. Incredibly, several incredibly effective vaccines have been developed. It's just great news all around.

The suspension of J&J is not something most people should worry about at all. They were being extremely cautious. I personally think they were overcautious and shouldn't have suspended it as it had the reverse effect it should have (reduced public confidence when it should have boosted it). The vaccine is good and the side effects are dramatically lower than any risks from COVID. I would have been 100% comfortable taking J&J.

I am not sure why you think I compared the vaccines. I did not. All three approved U.S. vaccines have been incredible successes. I'd rate them all similarly.

I guess it depends on how everyone defines "incredible efficacy rates." First and foremost, they really shouldn't even be the 3rd vaccine with EUA. Novavax had a manufacturing agreement with Emergent Biosolutions last Spring prior to J&J signing their deal with Emergent. Yet, somehow J&J jumps the line and bumps Novavax out of the way. And then they end up having contamination issues at this facility. Can't pinpoint who's at fault for that, but it's not a great look. Then earlier this year, they announce their "incredible efficacy" data. Let's be real, their results were underwhelming by many people's expectations. Very underwhelming compared to Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, and Novavax's efficacy. If I recall, J&J happened to announce their efficacy data a day or 2 after Novavax. Novavax had outstanding data, compared to J&J's 67% efficacy. They knew how underwhelming this was, so they touted "100% effective against death." LMAO! This worked, as the media ran with it and many people think this is somehow a guarantee against dying from covid. Since when was this ever a metric being used for efficacy? Pfizer and Moderna didn't tout this metric. It's because it's BS. In fact, I believe all four of the above other companies are 100% at preventing death and hospitalizations. But J%J knew they were the weakest, so they touted this as well at it being a one-shot vaccine. Well, at least a couple of the other companies have similar or much higher efficacy after one jab than 67%. Also, 67% is efficacy against moderate to severe covid. They didn't include mild covid cases, which I can only assume would bring that 67% number to well below 50%. It makes sense now when you hear about 7-8 NY Yankees players getting covid after getting J&J. That's how "incredible" it is. I didn't even mention the blood clotting issue yet. I know it's a small number, but I believe these individuals were otherwise healthy individuals. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but there's been several countries who have halted the use of J&J because of this. This wouldn't happen unless there are some serious concerns. Many of those countries have also halted AstraZeneca for similar blood clotting issues. Both companies provide adenovirus vaccines. I think "incredible efficacy rate" is quite the exaggeration.

^^^
What are you talking about? They didn’t make a commentary on those who serve in any way. They just pointed out that the military can’t require the vaccine until it’s fully approved by the FDA.

Sorry about that. Conflated some points. lol.

Yeah, most people who get COVID will not die, or even become severely ill. Many never even know/knew they had it.



COVID-19 has infected and killed way more people than Ebola ever has and in a lot less time. Literally millions more.

I sometimes wonder if some of you all read what you type and what you’re responding to before hitting send. Yes Covid has infected more people and killed more people than Ebola...but the comment i was responding to basically implied that catching Covid was a death sentence and that is far, FAR from being remotely accurate when the US death rate is around 1.8%. Contracting Ebola on the other hand, is much more likely to leave you dead and sent to a cemetery as the post I was responding to wrongly suggested would’ve been the likely outcome when coming down with Covid.

I guess it depends on how everyone defines "incredible efficacy rates." First and foremost, they really shouldn't even be the 3rd vaccine with EUA. Novavax had a manufacturing agreement with Emergent Biosolutions last Spring prior to J&J signing their deal with Emergent. Yet, somehow J&J jumps the line and bumps Novavax out of the way. And then they end up having contamination issues at this facility. Can't pinpoint who's at fault for that, but it's not a great look. Then earlier this year, they announce their "incredible efficacy" data. Let's be real, their results were underwhelming by many people's expectations. Very underwhelming compared to Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, and Novavax's efficacy. If I recall, J&J happened to announce their efficacy data a day or 2 after Novavax. Novavax had outstanding data, compared to J&J's 67% efficacy. They knew how underwhelming this was, so they touted "100% effective against death." LMAO! This worked, as the media ran with it and many people think this is somehow a guarantee against dying from covid. Since when was this ever a metric being used for efficacy? Pfizer and Moderna didn't tout this metric. It's because it's BS. In fact, I believe all four of the above other companies are 100% at preventing death and hospitalizations. But J%J knew they were the weakest, so they touted this as well at it being a one-shot vaccine. Well, at least a couple of the other companies have similar or much higher efficacy after one jab than 67%. Also, 67% is efficacy against moderate to severe covid. They didn't include mild covid cases, which I can only assume would bring that 67% number to well below 50%. It makes sense now when you hear about 7-8 NY Yankees players getting covid after getting J&J. That's how "incredible" it is. I didn't even mention the blood clotting issue yet. I know it's a small number, but I believe these individuals were otherwise healthy individuals. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but there's been several countries who have halted the use of J&J because of this. This wouldn't happen unless there are some serious concerns. Many of those countries have also halted AstraZeneca for similar blood clotting issues. Both companies provide adenovirus vaccines. I think "incredible efficacy rate" is quite the exaggeration.

Johnson & Johnson had 67% efficacy in trials, which is incredible. Considering their trials were completed during the spread of variants, it is pretty much equivalent to Pfizer and Moderna efficacy rates that resulted from a much more favorable environment in their trials. If you think developing a vaccine with 67% efficacy rates on a novel virus that has been effective in the real world too is not incredible, then I have no clue what to tell you. Reading your post, I suspect you do not understand vaccine efficacy or there's no way you could come to your conclusions (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/03/03/science/vaccine-efficacy-coronavirus.html). Many people readily confuse efficacy with common terms like effectiveness, but that is not the case. The efficacy rate differences are negligible when you understand the science behind the numbers. J&J prevents almost all hospitalization and deaths, just like the other vaccines in the U.S. The blood clotting issue happens to 1 in a million people. It's as relevant as getting struck by lightning or many other medications and activities that people don't think about everyday. Johnson & Johnson's vaccine is nearly a miracle.


Sorry about that. Conflated some points. lol.

No worries at all. Cheers!

I sometimes wonder if some of you all read what you type and what youÂ’re responding to before hitting send. Yes Covid has infected more people and killed more people than Ebola...but the comment i was responding to basically implied that catching Covid was a death sentence and that is far, FAR from being remotely accurate when the US death rate is around 1.8%. Contracting Ebola on the other hand, is much more likely to leave you dead and sent to a cemetery as the post I was responding to wrongly suggested wouldÂ’ve been the likely outcome when coming down with Covid.

That's pretty much what I said: Ebola kills most of those who get it, but COVID has killed the most people.

But, in context of this thread, the contrast is a good example of why the vaccine is so critical to controlling COVID. COVID is so much different than something like Ebola. Ebola is so efficient at killing that it almost contains itself. And, unlike COVID, contagious people with Ebola get sick, so they're not hanging out at Kong's spreading it to other people that leads to more deaths.

Thankfull, there's a vaccine for both of them, but neither work if people don't take them.

Seriously, don't invoke the military in this. Those who have served, are serving, and will serve do not process the risk or inconvenience to themselves against saving other Americans. They take so much greater risk and suffer much more than anyone will suffer from a vaccine.

Just say "thank you". To those who serve. To those who served tirelessly to try and get us out of this. And just do your part.

One day, when you're old, and you will be old, hopefully no one throws the bureaucracy at your ass when there's a cure for which you and your friends are dying.

I have been in the military for over 18 years and retiring soon. No offense taken on the comments as I understand there can be a miscommunication on text based communication. As dankrutka noted, I was using that the vaccines are under emergency use authorization and not FDA approved as the reason the military cannot mandate the vaccine.

On a side note, I begrudgency I received the Anthrax vaccine when I deployed. The vaccine was FDA approved so I got the jab.

I have been in the military for over 18 years and retiring soon. No offense taken on the comments as I understand there can be a miscommunication on text based communication. As dankrutka noted, I was using that the vaccines are under emergency use authorization and not FDA approved as the reason the military cannot mandate the vaccine.

On a side note, I begrudgency I received the Anthrax vaccine when I deployed. The vaccine was FDA approved so I got the jab.

That was my bad for tangentially (at best) running a different direction with it and, in doing so, I misrepresented your point. You clearly made a factual statement about FDA approval and military mandate and I went off on my own. Ha.

My apologies to you and the thread for that.

It's refreshing to see people handle a misunderstanding on the Internet so cordially... it's a rare sight.

Is there somewhere in OKC to walk-in and get the J&J vaccine?

Is there somewhere in OKC to walk-in and get the J&J vaccine?

https://www.solvhealth.com/ok/c/oklahoma-city-ok-srv-covid-vaccine?vaccine_type=jnj

https://www.solvhealth.com/ok/c/oklahoma-city-ok-srv-covid-vaccine?vaccine_type=jnj

Thanks!

I'm trying to get my neighbor to schedule an appt.

Johnson & Johnson had 67% efficacy in trials, which is incredible. Considering their trials were completed during the spread of variants, it is pretty much equivalent to Pfizer and Moderna efficacy rates that resulted from a much more favorable environment in their trials. If you think developing a vaccine with 67% efficacy rates on a novel virus that has been effective in the real world too is not incredible, then I have no clue what to tell you. Reading your post, I suspect you do not understand vaccine efficacy or there's no way you could come to your conclusions (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/03/03/science/vaccine-efficacy-coronavirus.html). Many people readily confuse efficacy with common terms like effectiveness, but that is not the case. The efficacy rate differences are negligible when you understand the science behind the numbers. J&J prevents almost all hospitalization and deaths, just like the other vaccines in the U.S. The blood clotting issue happens to 1 in a million people. It's as relevant as getting struck by lightning or many other medications and activities that people don't think about everyday. Johnson & Johnson's vaccine is nearly a miracle.

You seem like a well-schooled person from reading your posts over time, but please don't attempt to belittle me. I absolutely understand how efficacy works. I worked for one the largest pharma companies many years back, I don't need a NYT article to educate me. And no, they're still not "pretty much equivalent to Pfizer and Moderna efficacy rates." I recall that the 67% is the data against the original Wuhan strain, which is significantly lower than Pfizer or Moderna of 95% or so. Their efficacy rate against the S.A. strain was barely over 50% from what I remember, and they had no data against the U.K. or Brazilian strain. At the time, Pfizer and Moderna only had real word data against the Wuhan strain. However, their lab studies did show a significant reduction in neutralizing titers for the other strains, so I guess J&J has somewhat of a leg up since they ran trials in S.A. So I don't think your statement about J&J doing trials during the spread of variants really applies to your argument. You can fact check the above information if you'd like. Most, if not all, of the above should be found in each company's own press releases. And I haven't kept up with things as much recently as I did last year and early this year, but I doubt the blood clotting issues are 1 out of a million. I have no idea the exact number blood clotting cases vs how many J&J jabs have been given, but I don't see the numbers computing to 1 out of a million.

Either way, I'll leave things be and stop arguing. If you believe one thing and I believe something different, there's probably a low likelihood of us changing each other's mind.

... And I haven't kept up with things as much recently as I did last year and early this year, but I doubt the blood clotting issues are 1 out of a million. I have no idea the exact number blood clotting cases vs how many J&J jabs have been given, but I don't see the numbers computing to 1 out of a million. ...

When they paused the J&J vaccine, there were 6 blood clots out of 6.8 million shots, so pretty much 1 in a million.

When they paused the J&J vaccine, there were 6 blood clots out of 6.8 million shots, so pretty much 1 in a million.

Ok fair enough.

Does anyone know where to get antibody testing that picks up if the vaccine is working as intended?

OBI said their antibody tests only pick up if you've come into contact with covid, not whether the vaccine created antibodies.

I've read a few tests on groups of immunocompromised individuals are showing only like 25%-50% are showing vaccine induced antibodies. I'm wondering how that testing is being performed.

You seem like a well-schooled person from reading your posts over time, but please don't attempt to belittle me. I absolutely understand how efficacy works. I worked for one the largest pharma companies many years back, I don't need a NYT article to educate me. And no, they're still not "pretty much equivalent to Pfizer and Moderna efficacy rates." I recall that the 67% is the data against the original Wuhan strain, which is significantly lower than Pfizer or Moderna of 95% or so. Their efficacy rate against the S.A. strain was barely over 50% from what I remember, and they had no data against the U.K. or Brazilian strain. At the time, Pfizer and Moderna only had real word data against the Wuhan strain. However, their lab studies did show a significant reduction in neutralizing titers for the other strains, so I guess J&J has somewhat of a leg up since they ran trials in S.A. So I don't think your statement about J&J doing trials during the spread of variants really applies to your argument. You can fact check the above information if you'd like. Most, if not all, of the above should be found in each company's own press releases. And I haven't kept up with things as much recently as I did last year and early this year, but I doubt the blood clotting issues are 1 out of a million. I have no idea the exact number blood clotting cases vs how many J&J jabs have been given, but I don't see the numbers computing to 1 out of a million.

Either way, I'll leave things be and stop arguing. If you believe one thing and I believe something different, there's probably a low likelihood of us changing each other's mind.

I haven't heard much about the Indian variant lately. What is up with that strain? Last I heard it was in Canadian county?

I haven't heard much about the Indian variant lately. What is up with that strain? Last I heard it was in Canadian county?

I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it made its way here already. Even with the travel ban from India, I'm sure many carriers had already made their way here. Or it's easy enough to travel to another country first, then enter the US. But it doesn't sound like it's as big of a concern as the UK and SA were at the start of the year. I think at this point, we just have to recognize that Covid will continue mutating as time progresses like other coronaviruses. Back in March, I started hearing of a California variant. Hopefully, these vaccine developers can figure out a way to tackle multiple variants without increasing the dosage so much that side effects increase significantly.

I hadn't heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me if it made its way here already. Even with the travel ban from India, I'm sure many carriers had already made their way here. Or it's easy enough to travel to another country first, then enter the US. But it doesn't sound like it's as big of a concern as the UK and SA were at the start of the year. I think at this point, we just have to recognize that Covid will continue mutating as time progresses like other coronaviruses. Back in March, I started hearing of a California variant. Hopefully, these vaccine developers can figure out a way to tackle multiple variants without increasing the dosage so much that side effects increase significantly.
It wouldn’t just continue mutating as rampantly if people would get the damn shot.

Is it yet possible to receive a "drive through" vaccination anywhere? (A couple of folks in my world cannot walk well or stand for very long.)

Is it yet possible to receive a "drive through" vaccination anywhere? (A couple of folks in my world cannot walk well or stand for very long.)

Try Thrifty Pharmacy on North May:

https://www.thriftypharmacyedmond.com/
(405) 751-2852

They had a drive up POD in the middle of the Quail Plaza parking lot a few months ago. Their appointment scheduler says they are still doing it this way:

https://oem.passporthealthglobal.com/ClinicSignUp/Registration/ThriftyPharmacyCOVID

It's super easy.

Is it yet possible to receive a "drive through" vaccination anywhere? (A couple of folks in my world cannot walk well or stand for very long.)

If the Oklahoma County Public Health folks are still operating their thing over at OSUOKC, you can schedule a free drive up appointment.

Great responses about drive throughs. Many thanks to you both!

Another big drop in the number of Oklahomans who became fully vaccinated this past week, continuing a strong decline that started 2 months ago after the big initial surge.

Presently, only 45.1% of adults in OK have been completely vaccinated.


With the wide and easy (and completely free) availability and with the Dept. of Health traveling all over the state, almost everybody not currently vaxxed just doesn't want to be.

Assuming it was a typo, but I would be in favor of a name change to the Dept. of Healthy! Has a fun ring to it.

Another big drop in the number of Oklahomans who became fully vaccinated this past week, continuing a strong decline that started 2 months ago after the big initial surge.

Presently, only 45.1% of adults in OK have been completely vaccinated.


With the wide and easy (and completely free) availability and with the Dept. of Health traveling all over the state, almost everybody not currently vaxxed just doesn't want to be.

So we expect it will be back this fall/winter? Is that the current thinking?

People hospitalized with COVID-19 now have one overwhelming thing in common. They're not vaccinated. (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/06/16/majority-covid-19-hospital-patients-us-now-unvaccinated-younger/7684857002/)


"We're all seeing the same thing – when someone does get sick and comes to the hospital, they're much more likely to be young and unvaccinated," said Dr. Robert Wachter, professor and chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.

Another big drop in the number of Oklahomans who became fully vaccinated this past week, continuing a strong decline that started 2 months ago after the big initial surge.

Presently, only 45.1% of adults in OK have been completely vaccinated.


With the wide and easy (and completely free) availability and with the Dept. of Health traveling all over the state, almost everybody not currently vaxxed just doesn't want to be.

Total # vaccinated is still increasing. Increasing, week over week, but at a slower rate of increase, week over week, than in recent periods.

First and second derivatives. I was thrown off , but I see it now - the growth in the total numbers fully vaccinated has slowed greatly. Completely vaccinated (temporarily? ) is flattening.

Oklahoma currently at #41 with a 36% full vaccination rate. Vermont is highest at 64% and Mississippi is lowest at 29%.

Some current rates for surrounding states:
New Mexico: 51% (11)
Colorado: 49% (17)
Kansas: 40% (32)
Texas: 39% (34)
Missouri: 37% (39)
Arkansas: 33% (49)

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

Good.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/houston-hospital-vaccine-resign-fired_n_60d2c6e5e4b0b6b5a15f9d48

mRNA vaccine technology moves to flu: Moderna says trial has begun
Moderna aims for one seasonal shot for flu, COVID-19, respiratory viruses RSV and HMPV. (https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/mrna-vaccine-technology-moves-to-flu-moderna-says-trial-has-begun/)

mRNA vaccine technology moves to flu: Moderna says trial has begun
Moderna aims for one seasonal shot for flu, COVID-19, respiratory viruses RSV and HMPV. (https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/07/mrna-vaccine-technology-moves-to-flu-moderna-says-trial-has-begun/)

RSV would be huge. A lot of kids really suffer from it.

RSV would be huge. A lot of kids really suffer from it.

Yeah. The potential of mRNA technology is pretty exciting. As far as I understand RSV is worse than COVID for kids. I don't know if the trials will be able to go as fast with fewer cases, though.

Yeah. The potential of mRNA technology is pretty exciting. As far as I understand RSV is worse than COVID for kids. I don't know if the trials will be able to go as fast with fewer cases, though.

Considering the abysmally low vaccination rate for the current quadrivalent influenza vaccine which is offered free every year, I am pessimistic about a big uptake of this one in Oklahoma. It would still be an annual vaccine. Adding in the RSV and SARS coverage is nice addition but I doubt that the people who never get their flu shot are saying "I'll wait until it covers 4 respiratory viruses instead of just 1". It will be the same as now, people in Oklahoma don't want vaccines. HPV, shingles, MMR, they want nothing to do with them . And it shows in our morbidity and mortality rating as a state.

All these vaccines are nothing short of modern medical miracles. What could be better than something that prevents an illness before it happens?

I get a flu shot every year, had the two doses for the shingles, got the Covid vax as soon as I possibly could -- drove to Elk City for the first dose and Kingfisher for the 2nd.


There are people in foreign countries who would do anything for this vaccine, yet a huge percentage of Americans won't even take it for free.

This will go down as the dumbest thing to ever happen in modern America.

Considering the abysmally low vaccination rate for the current quadrivalent influenza vaccine which is offered free every year, I am pessimistic about a big uptake of this one in Oklahoma. It would still be an annual vaccine. Adding in the RSV and SARS coverage is nice addition but I doubt that the people who never get their flu shot are saying "I'll wait until it covers 4 respiratory viruses instead of just 1". It will be the same as now, people in Oklahoma don't want vaccines. HPV, shingles, MMR, they want nothing to do with them . And it shows in our morbidity and mortality rating as a state.

Unfortunately, I think you're right, unless there is some cross section of people who both "just haven't gotten around to it" and also get a flu shot every year. But I doubt that's very many people.

This will go down as the dumbest thing to ever happen in modern America.

Especially because there have been so many people actively displaying a contempt for their fellow citizens, while thinking that makes them a patriot.

The dumbest thing to ever happen in modern America…so far. I’m confident we can eventually outdo ourselves.

All these vaccines are nothing short of modern medical miracles. What could be better than something that prevents an illness before it happens?

I get a flu shot every year, had the two doses for the shingles, got the Covid vax as soon as I possibly could -- drove to Elk City for the first dose and Kingfisher for the 2nd.


There are people in foreign countries who would do anything for this vaccine, yet a huge percentage of Americans won't even take it for free.

This will go down as the dumbest thing to ever happen in modern America.

Meh, to each his own but I think the “dumbest thing to happen in America” award goes to those who refuse to vaccinate their children against diseases that we’ve nearly eliminated with long running vaccines that have 50+ year proven effectiveness and safety track records. At least the “fear of the unknown” factor due to the lack of that long term track record can be blamed for reluctance to take the COVID vaccines. Resistance to MMR, DTaP, and other long running basic vaccines is completely asinine.

^

The lengths you (and millions of others) are going to in order to justify not doing something completely logical, simple, and free is amazing.

^

The lengths you (and millions of others) are going to in order to justify not doing something completely logical, simple, and free is amazing.

As you know, I've already had Covid and with the increasing information supporting longer and longer term immunity after infection...I don't really feel the need to justify anything anymore as more and more studies seem to be backing my position on it :p. As I've said before, my opinion is that if you haven't had it, especially if you're in the high risk category, you absolutely should make the decision to get vaccinated (which is not the view of most of the millions of others that you're lumping me in with). That said, when someone comes out with a booster based on the 10 new variants that seem to develop every other week, I will likely get it.

I'm just saying that out of the large and ever growing pool of things that could be called "the dumbest thing to happen in modern America," I feel the best candidate related to vaccinations would be the massive anti-vax movement against long proven vaccines with excellent long term safety records as at least there is an argument that can be made for the hesitation regarding vaccines that have been around for a year vs 50 plus years. There is not a remotely decent argument against the standard vaccines, flu shot, etc...the fact that people were unwilling to get their children vaccinated and that it has led to the inexplicable resurgence of diseases that have almost been completely eliminated for half a century is to me, far dumber.

^

Except several hundred people are still dying every day in this country, simply because people won't walk across the street and get a miraculous vaccine. Billions of people around the globe wish they could even have access, and due to ridiculous, non-sensical reasons almost half this country is actively avoiding it.

Not even remotely comparable to people not getting a flu shot.

^

Except several hundred people are still dying every day in this country, simply because people won't walk across the street and get a miraculous vaccine. Billions of people around the globe wish they could even have access, and due to ridiculous, non-sensical reasons almost half this country is actively avoiding it.

Not even remotely comparable to people not getting a flu shot.

You picked, by far, the worst example of the three vaccines that I mentioned by name in my first post (LOL) and I thought "standard vaccines" in my second post was a pretty obvious reference to those and others that are required for school but you are correct, the flu shot is not the best comparison. Though I do think it's stupid not to get a flu shot because of safety concerns.

And I have personally known more people that have seemingly died at random shortly after getting one of the three Covid vaccines (my uncle who was in very good health being one of them) than I do that died from Covid so I don't know that "ridiculous, non-sensical reasons" is necessarily an accurate description or fair dismissal of people's concerns. It's anecdotal and correlation obviously doesn't equal causation...but it doesn't seem completely coincidental either (though I'm sure it likely is given the low number of deaths vs. those I've known who have gotten vaccinated). I know I'm not the only person who has had that experience. No one I know that has decided to hold off on getting vaccinated has done so because they think the boogie man is going to insert a microchip in their arm, because they're too busy screaming 'MERICA in the streets while firing their AR15s, or some other completely ridiculous reason. It's always been some underlying health concern, already having been infected, pregnancy, they know someone who has gotten very ill or died recently after being vaccinated, or something else that seemed like a reasonable concern. I even know a few doctors and nurses that are in that category.

I do trust my friend, who's a Pharmacist and has given out thousands of them and only had one serious reaction, and his opinion is that they are safe and that mRNA vaccines are the future of all vaccinations. The only one he's still a little concerned about is the Johnson & Johnson one.

At any rate, I don't think trivializing people's concerns; treating anyone, who is hesitant about getting one of the vaccines, like they are stupid; or being condescending to them is going to help move the needle. No matter how annoyed the government or anyone else is that some people don't want to get vaccinated, that attitude will only fuel the resistance to it.

^

No matter how you dress it up or rationalize, this is all 99% political and you and everyone else know it.

^

No matter how you dress it up or rationalize, this is all 99% political and you and everyone else know it.

not surprising if some people want a vaccine to actually have its trials finished and be FDA approved before they take it .. especially if they are healthy or young or both ..

not surprising if some people want a vaccine to actually have its trials finished and be FDA approved before they take it .. especially if they are healthy or young or both ..

A huge percentage of the same people using that excuse have at the same time been rejecting all the good, hard science coming from the CDC and other government bodies. Now, suddenly and selectively, government approval is vital even though that same body has been providing data that shows the vaccine is incredibly safe.

not surprising if some people want a vaccine to actually have its trials finished and be FDA approved before they take it .. especially if they are healthy or young or both ..

Aren't the trials long since finished and we have subsequent millions and millions of doses given that further show the safety of the vaccines?

Aren't the trials long since finished and we have subsequent millions and millions of doses given that further show the safety of the vaccines?

no the trails have not long since finished ... they last until 2022 and 2023 ..

the military doesn't require this vaccine currently because it is not FDA approved ... one of the vaccines might get FDA approval this fall and at that time the Military may then make it mandatory ..

Wow. This says a ton.

https://twitter.com/osururalhealth/status/1415671711186362375


OSU Rural Health
@osururalhealth
#COVID19 vaccinations among rural Oklahomans have flatlined over the past couple of weeks.

The fully vaccinated population has only increased by 8,537 individuals since July 1.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6V1xhHVoAIyAYZ?format=jpg&name=large

^

No matter how you dress it up or rationalize, this is all 99% political and you and everyone else know it.

Ok, Pete. Whether it breaks on party lines or not, just saying “it’s political” is a major oversimplification of people’s concerns but if you want to blame it all on politics, as so many people do with everything today seemingly with the intent of demonizing one side or the other, that’s certainly your right. We’ll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

Ok, Pete. Whether it breaks on party lines or not, just saying “it’s political” is a major oversimplification of people’s concerns but if you want to blame it all on politics, as so many people do with everything today seemingly with the intent of demonizing one side or the other, that’s certainly your right. We’ll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

There are some things in this country -- and this is one of them -- where logic, facts and common sense are supplanted with misinformation.

And in this particular case, it's 99% politically driven.

It really is that simple, as uncomfortable as that truth may be.

There are some things in this country -- and this is one of them -- where logic, facts and common sense are supplanted with misinformation.

And in this particular case, it's 99% politically driven.

It really is that simple, as uncomfortable as that truth may be.

Like I said, we’ll have to agree to disagree. In this case, the “truth” is more than a little subjective.

I can understand the initial hesitancy, but we are now a year into actual shots in arms with very few serious side effects. It's a very low-risk proposition at this point; driving to the pharmacy is probably the highest risk involved. But at this point, I am done arguing with people about it. It was safe enough for Trump to get it, mostly all of the Republican leaders have gotten it, I read that Fox News required it of their staff in order to work on location, etc. Those same people are going on TV and Twitter and harping on about how unsafe it is despite them having no objections to getting it themselves. That's where we need to draw the line and call it what it is: misinformation designed to inflame the political divide. There is no reason that this had to become political. This pandemic was the perfect opportunity for us to have a 9/11 type of unification to bring the country back together for a few years. When Americans all pull on the same end of the rope we can do some pretty amazing things. But from the get-go, this was turned into a political show from the former President and has turned what could have been a simple science-based response into a hodge-podge of political stalemate that has caused half a million dead Americans to end up in cemeteries.

^^^ probably one of the best summaries I’ve read regarding this issue. Bravo!

Ok, Pete. Whether it breaks on party lines or not, just saying “it’s political” is a major oversimplification of people’s concerns but if you want to blame it all on politics, as so many people do with everything today seemingly with the intent of demonizing one side or the other, that’s certainly your right. We’ll just have to agree to disagree and move on.

There is a statistically significant correlation between party ID and vaccine uptake. Blue states, and even counties, are more vaccinated while red states and counties are less vaccinated. It really is that simple:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

There's a reason why this most recent delta outbreak is occurring in deep-red Missouri, Arkansas and other locations

And I have personally known more people that have seemingly died at random shortly after getting one of the three Covid vaccines (my uncle who was in very good health being one of them) than I do that died from Covid so I don't know that "ridiculous, non-sensical reasons" is necessarily an accurate description or fair dismissal of people's concerns. It's anecdotal and correlation obviously doesn't equal causation...but it doesn't seem completely coincidental either (though I'm sure it likely is given the low number of deaths vs. those I've known who have gotten vaccinated). I know I'm not the only person who has had that experience.

To be clear: you don’t know a single person who has died because of the vaccine, nor do you know anyone who knows someone who died because they got the vaccine. You’re trying to imply that you do, softening the statement with words like “seemingly” and “randomly,” but you shouldn’t get away with that. You’re trying to introduce doubt and fear into people’s view of the vaccine by saying you know multiple people who died after getting the vaccine—and that you know others who know of multiple people dying as well. But the fact is you don’t know a single person who has died from the vaccine, nor does anyone you know.

Reports of death in the US after receiving (not caused by) the vaccine are extremely rare—about 6 thousand out of 335 MILLION, or 0.0018%. They could have died from Stage 4 cancer, a heart attacked caused by existing heart disease, old age, a COVID infection they got before the vaccine became effect, a car crash, or anything else unrelated the vaccine. Only 3 of those 6000 deaths can be linked directly to a condition, blood clotting, potentially caused by just one of the vaccines: J&J.

To be clear: you don’t know a single person who has died because of the vaccine, nor do you know anyone who knows someone who died because they got the vaccine. You’re trying to imply that you do, softening the statement with words like “seemingly” and “randomly,” but you shouldn’t get away with that. You’re trying to introduce doubt and fear into people’s view of the vaccine by saying you know multiple people who died after getting the vaccine—and that you know others who know of multiple people dying as well. But the fact is you don’t know a single person who has died from the vaccine, nor does anyone you know.

Reports of death in the US after receiving (not caused by) the vaccine are extremely rare—about 6 thousand out of 335 MILLION, or 0.0018%. They could have died from Stage 4 cancer, a heart attacked caused by existing heart disease, old age, a COVID infection they got before the vaccine became effect, a car crash, or anything else unrelated the vaccine. Only 3 of those 6000 deaths can be linked directly to a condition, blood clotting, potentially caused by just one of the vaccines: J&J.

You can go ahead and get over yourself. I’m not “trying” to do anything. I’ve literally said multiple times that I think anyone who hasn’t had COVID, especially those that are at a high risk for complications, should get vaccinated. All I said in response to Pete basically saying that it’s all political and that people are only avoiding getting vaccinated for illogical reasons, was that I do know several people that have died within a week of getting the vaccine that were in good health and for which there has not been any obvious cause of death that’s been found…and that others have had that experience and that has contributed to their reluctance to get vaccinated. That is absolutely a fact for the people I know who have died. As I have said several times, there is no way to prove that they died from vaccine side effects and that it was likely coincidental. To be clear, despite the fact that you apparently got all hot and bothered and want to paint me as some antivax mouthpiece… I absolutely do not give a crap what you or anyone else does. Get the vaccine or don’t, absolutely don’t care one way or the other. Had I not recently had COVID, I would’ve already gotten the vaccine two months ago.

^

You are all over this thread making comments about how people you know died suddenly after the vaccine, minimizing the impact of people who do not want to take it for nonsensical reasons, and now refusing to do so yourself because you had Covid even though the CDC states in direct terms you should absolutely be vaccinated.

So, when you keep posting things like that you are going to get called out. And rightfully so given the fact those 'opinions' are exactly what is leading a huge percentage of Americans from not getting the shot which has led and continues to lead to thousands of easily avoidable deaths.