Incredible amounts of denial in this thread in the last little bit. Polling isn't as wrong as you guys want to believe.

Numbers and science are only wrong when they provide conclusions you don't like.

I wonder if this tells the whole story ...

in Oklahoma for instance rural areas are almost entirely Republican ..... i would be very interested in Urban/rural numbers in this state ....

because very very few people that i know or work with (lots of republicans ) are anti the covid vaccine

Widespread survey data is significantly more meaningful than anecdotal data

Numbers and science are only wrong when they provide conclusions you don't like.

You’re certainly right about that: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/05/03/us/brookline-massachusetts-outdoor-mask-mandate-trnd/index.html

I know of several rural counties that had very high percentages higher than okc early on getting shots. They are like 99% Trump voting areas. There is more factors to it than republican and democrats. More to story than just political affiliations

is there a county by county vaccinations chart?

is there a county by county vaccinations chart?

On the CDC site there is.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

You have to select the state and select vaccinations under the map data dropdowns.

On the CDC site there is.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

You have to select the state and select vaccinations under the map data dropdowns.

That shows no county in Oklahoma has better than 48.9% of its adult residents fully vaccinated, and only 1 county (Caddo) with a higher rate than Oklahoma County.

Lots of rural counties under 30%.

On the CDC site there is.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

You have to select the state and select vaccinations under the map data dropdowns.

thanks

That shows no county in Oklahoma has better than 48.9% of its adult residents fully vaccinated, and only 1 county (Caddo) with a higher rate than Oklahoma County.

Lots of rural counties under 30%.

Yeah, definitely I don't see the numbers to support DowntownMan's claims. I will say that I do recall (or think I recall) that early on there were some rural counties with higher percentages than OKC, but I expect a large part of that might be attributed to the tribes' efforts in those areas. Plus, the way the early phases of the vaccines rollouts went, there were a few counties with higher percentage of residents over 65, or in long term care facilities, which likely drove those early percentages higher.

Yeah, definitely I don't see the numbers to support DowntownMan's claims. I will say that I do recall (or think I recall) that early on there were some rural counties with higher percentages than OKC, but I expect a large part of that might be attributed to the tribes' efforts in those areas. Plus, the way the early phases of the vaccines rollouts went, there were a few counties with higher percentage of residents over 65, or in long term care facilities, which likely drove those early percentages higher.

You just repeated what I claimed. Early on there were counties that where they had strong turnout and had higher percentages than okc at the time

For example at the time sw Oklahoma had strong turnouts to get vaccine early on. They have no tribes helping them in that area.

Pete this is political discussion that should be moved to the politics section. You yourself have brought up the political affiliation. While it might be a stat reported we should focus on the underlying reasons and more localized reasonings not the persons political affiliation
I’m not disagreeing with the stats just challenging that further digging into the actual reasons not just because who they voted for

I know of several rural counties that had very high percentages higher than okc early on getting shots. They are like 99% Trump voting areas. There is more factors to it than republican and democrats. More to story than just political affiliations

If rural areas are 99% Trump voters (which, for purposes of this conversation, we're calling Republicans), then the data actually suggests the '44% of Republicans resistant to the vaccine' polling data that Pete referenced is actually wrong in that it under counts the percentage of Republicans not getting the vaccine, at least in Oklahoma. If there's a 30% vaccination rate in a 99% Republican area, then roughly 70% of Republicans in that area have not gotten the widely available and free vaccine.

Does that mean 100% of that decision is politically motivated? Not necessarily, but it does show that a covid vaccine resistant person is more likely to also identify as Republican at this point.

Incredible amounts of denial in this thread in the last little bit. Polling isn't as wrong as you guys want to believe.

And I think, if everyone was honest, we wouldn't need a poll to tell us that the messaging from Republicans and right wing sources is, at best, divided on supporting this effort. So, it makes sense that it would show up in polling that is categorizing the responses by party affiliation.

And I think, if everyone was honest, we wouldn't need a poll to tell us that the messaging from Republicans and right wing sources is, at best, divided on supporting this effort. So, it makes sense that it would show up in polling that is categorizing the responses by party affiliation.

I haven't seen anyone argue against that though. But there are folks arguing that any vaccine resistance is 100% political, which makes no sense based on the polling, and it does ignore other factors. Obviously, it certainly is a major factor, but there are other reasons for resistance and sometimes we confuse correlation and causation. A lot of the groups that would be resistant to any vaccine, such as certain religious groups, those who don't trust the government, rural voters, also tend to lean conservative. You combine that with the terrible messaging from right wing sources, and it certainly makes a perfect storm. But there's a reason that resistance isn't at 0% among democrats or independents.

I wonder if this tells the whole story ...

in Oklahoma for instance rural areas are almost entirely Republican ..... i would be very interested in Urban/rural numbers in this state ....

because very very few people that i know or work with (lots of republicans ) are anti the covid vaccine

I always wondered why Stillwater has always had far fewer appointments available on the vaccine alert map than much smaller rural towns. Someone thought it was because OSU was giving out thousands of vaccines to students and workers and wasn't reflected on the map.

I haven't seen anyone argue against that though. But there are folks arguing that any vaccine resistance is 100% political, which makes no sense based on the polling, and it does ignore other factors.

Other factors like the outrageously, crazy unbelievable things I heard said against the vaccines on the Internet. Frankly, if I was in my teens to 40s, I'd probably be too scared off to take any covid vaccine. But the canaries in the coal mine, the first human test subjects for the vaccines, are still apparently doing okay, so I try not to worry much about it.

Other factors like the outrageously, crazy unbelievable things I heard said against the vaccines on the Internet. Frankly, if I was in my teens to 40s, I'd probably be too scared off to take any covid vaccine. But the canaries in the coal mine, the first human test subjects for the vaccines, are still apparently doing okay, so I try not to worry much about it.

I had to have a conversation with a close friend of mine yesterday, who's comment was "I want to get vaccinated but my boss keeps reading me stories about people dying from the vaccine." Once I explained that I've been following this closely, and I haven't seen any confirmed reports of people dying form the vaccine, and that the numbers they're hearing (about are those who got the vaccine and got covid anyways) are still within the expected success rate of the vaccine, they began asking me which vaccine I recommended and such, and they said they were planning on trying to get their first shot. So yeah, there has been a lot of bad (and dangerous) information out there.

I had to have a conversation with a close friend of mine yesterday, who's comment was "I want to get vaccinated but my boss keeps reading me stories about people dying from the vaccine." Once I explained that I've been following this closely, and I haven't seen any confirmed reports of people dying form the vaccine, and that the numbers they're hearing (about are those who got the vaccine and got covid anyways) are still within the expected success rate of the vaccine, they began asking me which vaccine I recommended and such, and they said they were planning on trying to get their first shot. So yeah, there has been a lot of bad (and dangerous) information out there.

Social Media is the worst thing to happen in the last 20 years. I have watched family members become absolutely brainwashed by clickbait "news" articles. The sheer amount of false vaccine information on social media is wild. I remember people saying nothing on the internet is true and now I watch them share news on Facebook/Twitter that is clearly made up like it is gospel. I get sad even thinking about it.

^

Yet, people are completely in control of what they chose to click on and read.

And there is a good percentage of the population that actively seeks out all the garbage and conspiracy theories.


There is a ton of awesome, credible, science-based information out there when it comes to Covid-19 and just about everything else.

But there are also a lot of leaders who promote lies and disinformation and millions willingly follow them down that ugly path.

That's true Pete, but I'll tell you, I fight constantly trying to counter what my Grandmother sees (as an example). She doesn't seek out the bad information, but Facebook is her primary interaction with much of the world and her family (especially over the past year). And sure enough, she buys into every third conspiracy or crappy post she sees. A LOT of bad information gets pushed right to the very front of the feeds daily. I know I see it and I have to report it as misinformation, and when I see her sharing some bad information, I'll call her to try to correct her, so I try to do my part there. But I can certainly see how someone who uses social media as their primary source of information can end up believing a lot of false stuff. It's not like this is the first time we've seen that effect.

A lot of what you see in your Facebook feed is based on what you click on, what groups you follow, the stuff you share, etc.

As a consequence, I don't see much of that crap.

Again, personal behavior has a lot to do with this.

I haven't seen anyone argue against that though. But there are folks arguing that any vaccine resistance is 100% political, which makes no sense based on the polling, and it does ignore other factors. Obviously, it certainly is a major factor, but there are other reasons for resistance and sometimes we confuse correlation and causation. A lot of the groups that would be resistant to any vaccine, such as certain religious groups, those who don't trust the government, rural voters, also tend to lean conservative. You combine that with the terrible messaging from right wing sources, and it certainly makes a perfect storm. But there's a reason that resistance isn't at 0% among democrats or independents.

I imagine there are next to zero that would say they won't get the vaccine because they are Republican. I think it's more of a result of Republicans using covid to court the anti-science crowd. It is a strategy. It became a Republican thing because Republican leadership chose for it to be.

As far as I can tell, the 8% of Democratic voters who won't get the vaccine, are doing so despite that party's efforts and messaging. And, of course, there are impressionable Democrats and Independents that have the internet and facebook, too.

A lot of what you see in your Facebook feed is based on what you click on, what groups you follow, the stuff you share, etc.

As a consequence, I don't see much of that crap.

Again, personal behavior has a lot to do with this.

Or who you have in your friends list. Folks can't always choose their family though.

That's true Pete, but I'll tell you, I fight constantly trying to counter what my Grandmother sees (as an example). She doesn't seek out the bad information, but Facebook is her primary interaction with much of the world and her family (especially over the past year). And sure enough, she buys into every third conspiracy or crappy post she sees. A LOT of bad information gets pushed right to the very front of the feeds daily. I know I see it and I have to report it as misinformation, and when I see her sharing some bad information, I'll call her to try to correct her, so I try to do my part there. But I can certainly see how someone who uses social media as their primary source of information can end up believing a lot of false stuff. It's not like this is the first time we've seen that effect.

I get a lot of the "Wow look at this article can you believe this?!" No I can't. The headline and picture are made to make you click on it, comment and share it. People lack the ability to read things and fall for this far to often, usually the older generation but that could also be because they use FB more than the younger people now.

Then they get sucked into Youtube videos and start watching those loonies everyday as if it is Walter Cronkite reporting the news. People just keep following what they want to believe and seek those who confirm it. If you have parents I recommend them just not getting facebook. Both my parents are not on social media and at all and compared to my in laws it definitely makes a big difference in the topics they tend to bring up.

For that matter, I have taken a step back from FB. It has just gotten too bad.

I get a lot of the "Wow look at this article can you believe this?!" No I can't. The headline and picture are made to make you click on it, comment and share it. People lack the ability to read things and fall for this far to often, usually the older generation but that could also be because they use FB more than the younger people now.

Then they get sucked into Youtube videos and start watching those loonies everyday as if it is Walter Cronkite reporting the news. People just keep following what they want to believe and seek those who confirm it. If you have parents I recommend them just not getting facebook. Both my parents are not on social media and at all and compared to my in laws it definitely makes a big difference in the topics they tend to bring up.

For that matter, I have taken a step back from FB. It has just gotten too bad.

That's true, although this problem predates FB and social media. I've been the "tech guy" in my family for a while and even back in the 90's I was having to respond to crazy emails from my aunts or grandparents or even my father. Whether it was Y2k, or a panic that hotel key cards have all your personal information, or pink slime, false information going around is nothing new. And people, especially older folks, tend to fall for this stuff at a much higher rate. That's why there are so many scammers making money off of ripping those folks off. If someone is willing to believe some Nigerian Prince is trying to send them money, then they certainly will believe some crazy demon blood youtube video. The technical literacy is so low for some people, they aren't even aware of the tools or techniques to validate information. It's real easy to act like it's so simple to do, but I deal with people all the time who get confused if I use a term like "right-click".

^

Fear is a great marketing tool and it plays well with older people.

They love that "world is going to hell" narrative and look for things that confirm their bias.

Every aging generation has been sure the country/world is going straight to ruin for at least 100 years.

I get a lot of the "Wow look at this article can you believe this?!" No I can't. The headline and picture are made to make you click on it, comment and share it. People lack the ability to read things and fall for this far to often, usually the older generation but that could also be because they use FB more than the younger people now.

Then they get sucked into Youtube videos and start watching those loonies everyday as if it is Walter Cronkite reporting the news. People just keep following what they want to believe and seek those who confirm it. If you have parents I recommend them just not getting facebook. Both my parents are not on social media and at all and compared to my in laws it definitely makes a big difference in the topics they tend to bring up.

For that matter, I have taken a step back from FB. It has just gotten too bad.
I have a friend in our grade school FB group that almost daily posts some absolutely asinine BS that she saw and believes completely when 30 seconds of fact checking proves it's BS. It's hard to believe the gullibility!

That's true, although this problem predates FB and social media. I've been the "tech guy" in my family for a while and even back in the 90's I was having to respond to crazy emails from my aunts or grandparents or even my father. Whether it was Y2k, or a panic that hotel key cards have all your personal information, or pink slime, false information going around is nothing new. And people, especially older folks, tend to fall for this stuff at a much higher rate. That's why there are so many scammers making money off of ripping those folks off. If someone is willing to believe some Nigerian Prince is trying to send them money, then they certainly will believe some crazy demon blood youtube video. The technical literacy is so low for some people, they aren't even aware of the tools or techniques to validate information. It's real easy to act like it's so simple to do, but I deal with people all the time who get confused if I use a term like "right-click".

And, in the same way, a lot of these people are actually victims of intended manipulation by way of misinformation. This time it was amplified because we have all been damaged and put at risk by the con job, even if we aren't the ones actually falling for it.

Has anyone seen if CVS is offering walk-in covid vaccinations in Oklahoma? I saw a news article today that they were doing it in a large number of locations, but every article I find is talking about other states. And if not CVS, are there any places offering walk-in vaccinations in Oklahoma, or is it still by appointment (ignoring the just show up without an appointment option that some have done)?

I have a friend in our grade school FB group that almost daily posts some absolutely asinine BS that she saw and believes completely when 30 seconds of fact checking proves it's BS. It's hard to believe the gullibility!

Willful ignorance is the main force at work here.

Has anyone seen if CVS is offering walk-in covid vaccinations in Oklahoma? I saw a news article today that they were doing it in a large number of locations, but every article I find is talking about other states. And if not CVS, are there any places offering walk-in vaccinations in Oklahoma, or is it still by appointment (ignoring the just show up without an appointment option that some have done)?

All I know is that the CVS I go to always has a lot of empty chairs designated for Covid Vaccinations. If they have supply and aren't offering walk-ins, they really should be.

Has anyone seen if CVS is offering walk-in covid vaccinations in Oklahoma? I saw a news article today that they were doing it in a large number of locations, but every article I find is talking about other states. And if not CVS, are there any places offering walk-in vaccinations in Oklahoma, or is it still by appointment (ignoring the just show up without an appointment option that some have done)?

Doesn't look like CVS says they do it yet. However Walmart and Sam's Club nationwide are all accepting walkins as supply is available. They started that yesterday.

Twice I've seen signs in the Walgreens drive-thru at Rockwell & Hefner saying they had excess vaccine that day and "Come On In".

Pfizer is probably going to be approved for 12-15 year olds in the next couple of weeks, so that may tick up demand, at least for a few weeks. Sounds like there is enough on hand for tor it, though.

I imagine there are next to zero that would say they won't get the vaccine because they are Republican. I think it's more of a result of Republicans using covid to court the anti-science crowd. It is a strategy. It became a Republican thing because Republican leadership chose for it to be.

As far as I can tell, the 8% of Democratic voters who won't get the vaccine, are doing so despite that party's efforts and messaging. And, of course, there are impressionable Democrats and Independents that have the internet and facebook, too.

You cite republicans, but you will not address why Hispanics and Blacks while largely Democrats refuse to take the vaccine.
T

Weekly statewide fully immunized number increased by 51,149 week-over-week.

The 2 weeks before were 71,181 and 93,699; progress is slowing way, way down.


Statewide total immunization rate for those over 18: 34.5%

You cite republicans, but you will not address why Hispanics and Blacks while largely Democrats refuse to take the vaccine.
T

I was just discussing the numbers provided here of vaccine resistance by party as a reflection of the difference in messaging between the two parties. Of course, vaccine resistance data can be grouped in a different way to examine other motivators for resistance, but that wasn't the discussion.

You cite republicans, but you will not address why Hispanics and Blacks while largely Democrats refuse to take the vaccine.
T

There it's because blacks and Hispanics have less, unequal access to healthcare, including vaccines. It has little to do with hesitancy. Though given the horrible history of blacks being abused by the medical profession (see: the Tuskegee Study), some reticence would be expected and understandable.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-fewer-black-americans-are-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine-no-its-not-hesitancy/

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/26/989962041/why-black-and-latino-people-still-lag-on-covid-vaccines-and-how-to-fix-it

Yes, it's all those blacks and Latinos in the rural Oklahoma counties that are the issue. :rolleyes:

I'll go ahead and say it. For about a week after I got my second vaccine, I immensely regretted it. I am 25, great health *knocks on wood*, and never contracted COVID (as far as I'm aware) without changing my day-to-day life. Those 5 days after my second shot were some of the worst days I have ever felt, illness wise. The two main reasons I even got the vaccine to begin with were travel purposes (incase places require proof, b/c I love to travel), and to hush the comments from those pushing the vaccine. NEWSFLASH: those that push the vaccine comments on others are almost as insufferable as those that are anti-vax. But the purpose of this post is I have talked to many, many people around my age that have either had COVID, or haven't, and see no reason in getting the shot. Especially those that were barely sick when they had COVID, or those that haven't gotten it but have still been just as social as pre-COVID.

FWIW, I got my first vaccine prior to the CDC saying those vaccinated might not carry and transmit COVID, so save me those comments.

Better to be insufferable in the cause of ending the global pandemic we're all laboring under than insufferable in trying to prolong it.

A lot of what you see in your Facebook feed is based on what you click on, what groups you follow, the stuff you share, etc.

You’re doing a bit of blaming the victim here. Facebook and YouTube algorithms do not simply respond to people’s behavior, they actively nudge them in directions all the time. If you search “vaccine” in either of those platforms, they will begin repeatedly encouraging you to join anti-vaxxer groups and conspiracy theory videos. Fear inducing, hateful content generates more engagement and the business model of social media companies are built to encourage more engagement. Many elderly people grew up in an era where they were generally presented news from *more* trustworthy sources. It would be great if there were more media literacy efforts, but the far bigger issue is demanding social media companies quit actively spreading hate and conspiracies.

It’s great that you and many others have great media literacy skills and find active information, but our society has to do more to combat how these huge social media companies constantly push people into bad places. It’s not just about individual choice.

Its not all Republicans are antivacs. I am a conservative Republican and do believe we need this. In the past I was always one of the first to get and make sure I was vacinated and up to date on them. Its just that I do have a medical condition that my doctor (specialist) said for me to wait. Also from what I have read that that advice is in line with what I have read. I am among those 0.0001% that do have a legit medical reason to not get it. Its like someone with a peanut allergy, its not like they are against others eating it, its just that they should not.

our society has to do more to combat how these huge social media companies constantly push people into bad places. It’s not just about individual choice.

Never said it was "just about individual choice". I can tell you I never, ever see these crazy stories in my Facebook feed.

And of course, a huge amount of disinformation comes from Russia and other places with a vested interest in causing disruption in our culture/politics.

Agreed. I just want to make sure these unethical social media companies get their share of the blame! ;)

The social media companies can't win.

If they take a hands-off approach, they are blamed for providing a platform. If they are more proactive, there are loud cries of censorship.

It's far from a simple problem and I'm sure things will get better; most of this is completely unchartered territory.

I'll go ahead and say it. For about a week after I got my second vaccine, I immensely regretted it. I am 25, great health *knocks on wood*, and never contracted COVID (as far as I'm aware) without changing my day-to-day life. Those 5 days after my second shot were some of the worst days I have ever felt, illness wise. The two main reasons I even got the vaccine to begin with were travel purposes (incase places require proof, b/c I love to travel), and to hush the comments from those pushing the vaccine. NEWSFLASH: those that push the vaccine comments on others are almost as insufferable as those that are anti-vax. But the purpose of this post is I have talked to many, many people around my age that have either had COVID, or haven't, and see no reason in getting the shot. Especially those that were barely sick when they had COVID, or those that haven't gotten it but have still been just as social as pre-COVID.

FWIW, I got my first vaccine prior to the CDC saying those vaccinated might not carry and transmit COVID, so save me those comments.

Yeah, this is the reason I'm holding off on it for now. Several of my friends, from early 20s to mid 30s, that have gotten both doses have been miserable for 2 days to a week. My uncle and a family friend who were in the 60s and 70s actually died a week after the first dose and second dose, respectively. Correlation certainly does not equal causation of course and their deaths could be purely coincidental but that and the side effects I've seen have been enough to give me pause. I had Covid back in December and it was pretty mild all things considered so for now, I'm just going to roll the dice and see how long I can stay naturally immune to it. If I catch it again, I'll probably bite the bullet and get the vaccine a few months after that. Viral Roulette lol.

Its not all Republicans are antivacs. I am a conservative Republican and do believe we need this.

I don't think anyone has contended that it is all Republicans. It's not even most Republicans at this point (it was at one time). It's just that in polls that breakdown the number of people who say they will not get the covid vaccine into groups, Republicans have consistently been the group that has the relatively highest percentage of those who won't get the vaccine. There are other groupings that show high levels of refusal, but percentage of Republicans who say they won't get the vaccine has been the highest.

In most groups, resistance has fallen, but this shows the relative resistance between different groupings as of last December:

16845

Obviously, the data can not explain motivation on their own, but they can suggest where there is opportunity for improvement in the effort to control COVID-19 in our community via vaccines. There's obviously overlap in a lot of those groupings, but if any of those groups are motivated to not participate in the effort to control the disease by misinformation or ignorance, then that's where opportunities may lie to focus education and messaging efforts. I am not aware of any concerted or organized effort in any of those groups to actively encourage people to not get the vaccine by representatives of those groups, except in the Republican group. I'm not saying they don't exist. They most assuredly do. But I would say that group currently has the highest profile, nationally, with representatives actively discouraging vaccination and/or spreading misinformation about the vaccines and the data.



In the past I was always one of the first to get and make sure I was vacinated and up to date on them. Its just that I do have a medical condition that my doctor (specialist) said for me to wait. Also from what I have read that that advice is in line with what I have read. I am among those 0.0001% that do have a legit medical reason to not get it.

And this is key. NO ONE should get the vaccine against the advice of their physician. But if everyone made their decision to get vaccinated based solely on medical advice, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Surely, there are some physicians that are telling all their patients to not get it (George Carlin: by basic processes of elimination, there is the worst doctor in the world. And someone has an appointment to see them tomorrow), but if everyone who bases their decision on a doctor's advice followed that advice, we'd be fine.


Its like someone with a peanut allergy, its not like they are against others eating it, its just that they should not.

I understand what you're saying, but a peanut allergy and it's deadly potential is not a contagious disease. Covid-19 is.

Yeah, this is the reason I'm holding off on it for now. Several of my friends, from early 20s to mid 30s, that have gotten both doses have been miserable for 2 days to a week.

Yes. The potential side effects from getting the vaccine are well known. Interestingly, they are as widely varied as the effects of COVID have been amongst those who have contracted the disease. Except in one respect: Death.


My uncle and a family friend who were in the 60s and 70s actually died a week after the first dose and second dose, respectively. Correlation certainly does not equal causation of course and their deaths could be purely coincidental but that and the side effects I've seen have been enough to give me pause.

I'm sincerely sorry for your loss and totally understand how this would cause hesitancy. The reality is that, based on the millions of vaccine doses that have been given around the world, if everyone who lost a loved one shortly after they received the vaccine, for whatever reason, decided not to get it, but everyone else did, we'd still easily reach, and surpass, the herd immunity estimates.


I had Covid back in December and it was pretty mild all things considered so for now, I'm just going to roll the dice and see how long I can stay naturally immune to it. If I catch it again, I'll probably bite the bullet and get the vaccine a few months after that. Viral Roulette lol.

I'm glad that it didn't affect you that badly and hopefully your immunity from infection is robust and will continue.

Unfortunately, the effects of COVID 19 on an infected person is not proportionally transferred to anyone who contracts the disease from exposure to the originally infected person. A person who experiences mild effects of the disease can transmit it to someone who will die from it. That's essentially how this whole thing has played out and why COVID has killed so many people in such a short time. If you ever find yourself wondering how you found yourself being alive during a pandemic, that is why.

Hopefully, you won't get it again. And thankfully, there is a way that you can significantly reduce that from happening. Because if you do get it again, there's a significant chance that the virus will use you to spread it to someone else, starting an exponential reaction that results in someone dying, maybe more. That's how deadly contagious diseases work, of which COVID-19 is one of them.

But, again, thankfully, we have a way of preventing that from happening. Some may and do feel miserable for a couple of days, or even a week after getting the vaccine. But they certainly don't feel as miserable as the people who die from COVID or those that knew them.

Yes. The potential side effects from getting the vaccine are well known. Interestingly, they are as widely varied as the effects of COVID have been amongst those who have contracted the disease. Except in one respect: Death.



I'm sincerely sorry for your loss and totally understand how this would cause hesitancy. The reality is that, based on the millions of vaccine doses that have been given around the world, if everyone who lost a loved one shortly after they received the vaccine, for whatever reason, decided not to get it, but everyone else did, we'd still easily reach, and surpass, the herd immunity estimates.



I'm glad that it didn't affect you that badly and hopefully your immunity from infection is robust and will continue.

Unfortunately, the effects of COVID 19 on an infected person is not proportionally transferred to anyone who contracts the disease from exposure to the originally infected person. A person who experiences mild effects of the disease can transmit it to someone who will die from it. That's essentially how this whole thing has played out and why COVID has killed so many people in such a short time. If you ever find yourself wondering how you found yourself being alive during a pandemic, that is why.

Hopefully, you won't get it again. And thankfully, there is a way that you can significantly reduce that from happening. Because if you do get it again, there's a significant chance that the virus will use you to spread it to someone else, starting an exponential reaction that results in someone dying, maybe more. That's how deadly contagious diseases work, of which COVID-19 is one of them.

But, again, thankfully, we have a way of preventing that from happening. Some may and do feel miserable for a couple of days, or even a week after getting the vaccine. But they certainly don't feel as miserable as the people who die from COVID or those that knew them.

Yes, I've followed it as much as the next person over the last year, actually had it, and know people who had less severe symptoms, more severe symptoms and died from it. The common denominator is that people my age and younger all had fairly mild symptoms as did I. I would rather have Covid again than catch the flu for that matter. For some of my friends the side effects from the vaccine were actually worse than symptoms of the virus itself. If I catch it again, I'm fine with locking myself down for 10 days from symptom onset to avoid exposing anyone else. For me, getting the vaccine at this point seems about as pointless as getting a flu shot immediately after having the flu before the next flu season's vaccine is released. Catching it a second time seems fairly rare (at least with the strains that are currently out there), especially among the people I know that have also done very little to prevent exposure since the end of summer last year so I'm fine with taking my chances and testing my immune system. Will definitely continue to reevaluate as immunization becomes more widespread and if/when I determine how long I can remain immune after having the virus.

On edit: Actually have a neighbor who's dog I'm watching this weekend because he just headed to Georgia for an aunt's funeral who was in her late 60s/early 70s and was in otherwise good health (at least as far as their she and her family knew). She just received the second vaccine dose a little over 2 weeks ago. Again, the timing of her death could absolutely be coincidental but similar to my uncle, she's still dead, currently without any explanation why or any signs of illness leading up to it.

Yes, I've followed it as much as the next person over the last year, actually had it, and know people who had less severe symptoms, more severe symptoms and died from it. The common denominator is that people my age and younger all had fairly mild symptoms as did I. I would rather have Covid again than catch the flu for that matter. For some of my friends the side effects from the vaccine were actually worse than symptoms of the virus itself. If I catch it again, I'm fine with locking myself down for 10 days from symptom onset to avoid exposing anyone else. For me, getting the vaccine at this point seems about as pointless as getting a flu shot immediately after having the flu before the next flu season's vaccine is released. Catching it a second time seems fairly rare (at least with the strains that are currently out there), especially among the people I know that have also done very little to prevent exposure since the end of summer last year so I'm fine with taking my chances and testing my immune system. Will definitely continue to reevaluate as immunization becomes more widespread and if/when I determine how long I can remain immune after having the virus.

Yes, You are not worried about you. That's clear.

Hopefully, you don't get it again and, if you do, it will be as mild as it was the first time and you manage to not expose anyone else to it.

For everyone else who's public health calculus extends beyond themselves, get your vaccine! There's side effects for most people. But most people can easily handle it.


On edit: Actually have a neighbor who's dog I'm watching this weekend because he just headed to Georgia for an aunt's funeral who was in her late 60s/early 70s and was in otherwise good health (at least as far as their she and her family knew). She just received the second vaccine dose a little over 2 weeks ago. Again, the timing of her death could absolutely be coincidental but similar to my uncle, she's still dead, currently without any explanation why or any signs of illness leading up to it.

Sorry about your neighbor's aunt.

Not everyone is able to get vaccinated due to other health issues. My neurologist, nope not at this time. I guess I'll have to go back to curbside pickup.

Yes, You are not worried about you. That's clear.

Hopefully, you don't get it again and, if you do, it will be as mild as it was the first time and you manage to not expose anyone else to it.

For everyone else who's public health calculus extends beyond themselves, get your vaccine! There's side effects for most people. But most people can easily handle it.



Sorry about your neighbor's aunt.

Well then thank god 99% of those that ARE concerned for THEIR own safety can make the personal choice to choose the potential side effects of the vaccine over the risk of Covid-19 and get THEMSELVES vaccinated now without forcing me to get it immediately when I’m somewhat concerned about MY well-being and should still currently have immunity to it anyway. We live in a society where everyone can weigh the risk/reward of their options and make the best decision for themselves and their families. America is great, right?

Sorry that you view my decision not to, potentially needlessly, make myself feel like crap as selfish when I’ve listed out all of the my reasons for currently being concerned enough not to take the vaccine. You want more people to get vaccinated? That holier than thou, know it all type attitude will be much more likely to turn off people who are on the fence than have the effect you want. As I said above, as immunization becomes more widespread and more is learned about the potential of reinfection, I will have no issue with reevaluating my position on it

The social media companies can't win.

If they take a hands-off approach, they are blamed for providing a platform. If they are more proactive, there are loud cries of censorship.

It's far from a simple problem and I'm sure things will get better; most of this is completely unchartered territory.

I study this stuff and disagree. The social media companies have been completely irresponsible since the beginning, particularly Zuckerberg who has endlessly lied and apologized and lied more. I recommend reading Anti-Social Media by Siva Vaidyanathan or Zucked by Roger McNamee. Reading the ways Facebook has consistently misled the public and spouted lies from the beginning is deeply troubling. Facebook won’t get better because their business model is the problem. Zuckerberg has regularly been briefed on these issues and he does not care about anything besides user growth and market share.

Not everyone is able to get vaccinated due to other health issues. My neurologist, nope not at this time. I guess I'll have to go back to curbside pickup.

Which is a very important reason why those that can get the vaccine should get it to help protect those that can't.

Which is a very important why those that can get the vaccine should get it to help protect those that can't.
Bingo.

[QUOTE]Well then thank god 99% of those that ARE concerned for THEIR own safety can make the personal choice to choose the potential side effects of the vaccine over the risk of Covid-19

The risk of COVID is 581,000 dead Americans and counting.

The risk of the vaccine is feeling like crap for a few days.


and get THEMSELVES vaccinated now without forcing me to get it immediately when IÂ’m somewhat concerned about MY well-being and should still currently have immunity to it anyway. We live in a society where everyone can weigh the risk/reward of their options and make the best decision for themselves and their families. America is great, right?

Correct. America is great. And it's at its greatest greatest when individual Americans view America as a society that shares the same spaces and social well being. Only when individual Americans consider other Americans in their risk assessments does it function as a society, or, at least, a great one.

Everyone has a right to make their own risk assessments, but does everyone have a right to put others at risk?


Sorry that you view my decision not to, potentially needlessly, make myself feel like crap as selfish when IÂ’ve listed out all of the my reasons for currently being concerned enough not to take the vaccine. You want more people to get vaccinated? That holier than thou, know it all type attitude will be much more likely to turn off people who are on the fence than have the effect you want. As I said above, as immunization becomes more widespread and more is learned about the potential of reinfection, I will have no issue with reevaluating my position on it

Well, I'm sorry that you feel like I was holier than thou. I was just trying to provide widely available data on the widespread use of the vaccine so far in the context of the broader health implications for America.

Well then thank god 99% of those that ARE concerned for THEIR own safety can make the personal choice to choose the potential side effects of the vaccine over the risk of Covid-19 and get THEMSELVES vaccinated now without forcing me to get it immediately when I’m somewhat concerned about MY well-being and should still currently have immunity to it anyway. We live in a society where everyone can weigh the risk/reward of their options and make the best decision for themselves and their families. America is great, right?

Sorry that you view my decision not to, potentially needlessly, make myself feel like crap as selfish when I’ve listed out all of the my reasons for currently being concerned enough not to take the vaccine. You want more people to get vaccinated? That holier than thou, know it all type attitude will be much more likely to turn off people who are on the fence than have the effect you want. As I said above, as immunization becomes more widespread and more is learned about the potential of reinfection, I will have no issue with reevaluating my position on it

Get off the cross, we need the wood.

Get off the cross, we need the wood.

That **** is expensive right now!

Experts Predict What Life Will Be Like Without COVID-19 Herd Immunity (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/experts-life-without-covid-19-herd-immunity_l_60941273e4b0b9042d9c3111)

[QUOTE=PhiAlpha;1166368]Everyone has a right to make their own risk assessments, but does everyone have a right to put others at risk?

They don't. The Supreme Court has blessed state actors regulating matters of public health, i.e., mandatory vaccinations. There's unfortunately not the political will to utilize that power.