Wondering if anybody knows of a good online source that has fairly detailed historical topography of near NW OKC, especially around the Venice neighborhood? Heard there used to be a creek running where Venice Blvd is today, and have poked around in the library's collections, but the maps there were either too zoomed out or just had structures (the Sanborn maps) and not much topography (one of the Sanborn maps just had a blank space where the Venice neighborhood is, then the next chronological one already had Venice Blvd). Doug Dawgz blog had some, but they weren't too helpful (the larger images that would've helped came up with 404 errors).

given what you describe, a watershed map might be of more interest.

i might poke around later if i have time, but here is where i would start:
https://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/
https://www.okhistory.org/research/maps

ugggh... who am i kidding? i make time for maps and searching for stuff like this.

here is a screengrab from a 1907 map I downloaded from ohs a long time ago. running through the center is 36th. the empty land just to the west of "west point addition" should be venice. while this isn't a topographic or watershed map, there is a creek drawn there, which I presume is the deep fork... the way it's drawn seems to indicate that it roughly approximates the drainage basin today.

http://magnvs.de/VeniceNeighborhood.pnghttp://www.magnvs.de/pics/VeniceNeighborhood.png

here is another from 1944... 36th is at the middle again. the deep fork is a heavier line than the surrounding roads. it appears at the time, miller exists roughly where venice is today but it doesn't cross the creek. apparently there was a road that ran parallel to the creek called 'deep fork parkway'

http://www.magnvs.de/pics/VeniceNeighborhood2.png

...and another from 1947. there's no miller and no deep fork parkway. it's entirely possible that the streets from the 1944 map were planned but never implemented. you can see the start of venice from 27th to 30th.

http://www.magnvs.de/pics/VeniceNeighborhood3.png

this doesn't show the creek all that well, but is fairly interesting as it shows the years of various developments in the area. it's from a map made in 1951 that attempts to reconstruct okc from 1914.
http://magnvs.de/pics/VeniceNeighborhood4.png

here is another from 1944... 36th is at the middle again. the deep fork is a heavier line than the surrounding roads. it appears at the time, miller exists roughly where venice is today but it doesn't cross the creek. apparently there was a road that ran parallel to the creek called 'deep fork parkway'

http://www.magnvs.de/pics/VeniceNeighborhood2.png

Wow, thanks for all your research, unfortunately it adds up to what I saw in the maps I poked around on, no "Venice Creek". I've traced the Deep Fork Creek (now Deep Fork Concrete Drainage Canal :)) a bit, and it pretty much goes E-W in Venice, as you've noted - I was amazed at how long it is and how much it drains, but seeing it overflow during heavy storms, I'm not surprised. In this image, the theoretical creek that is now Venice Blvd would be probably running N-S in the blank space just west of the "N"s of 31st - 35th, probably going in between 23rd/36th (and maybe further), which are the termination points of Venice Blvd today. In the 1907 map, the creek would've been running N-S in section 10 in the square just west of the "West Point Addition". So it appears from all these maps that there might not've been a creek (or it was too small to be mapped?), have to ask the guy I talked to if he has any further information on date and actual location... Thanks so much for this, I'll check out the watershed maps at the links you posted.

no problem... i really enjoy digging around for stuff like this.

in addition to the links i posted before, you might have some luck with osu's map collection... i'm pretty sure this is where i found some watershed maps for south oklahoma city a while back and so it may have something similar for near northwest oklahoma city.

https://dc.library.okstate.edu/digital/collection/OKMaps/

also, not so much a map, but a useful piece of evidence. evidentally, the area was just outside of okc when it was first developed. you can kind of see this in the last map i posted by the dotted line that runs just south of venice. apparently, venice boulevard had to be deeded to the city in 1954 as evidenced by a quit-claim deed and supporting documents which are graciously archived and available online at okc.gov in the link below. i'm wondering if venice boulevard wanders around like it does because it was originally put in ad hoc by private individuals instead of the city.

https://data.okc.gov/portal/page/documentsearch?searchType=land&searchValue=D_1104

I’m interested to watch this too. I grew up on 37th & Miller. I remember well when Deep Fork was a real creek with dirt, mud, rocks, snakes and who knows what else. We usually came home from Sequoyah in the creek bed instead of down 36th. If Venice was ever anything but a street it had to be pre 40s. That’s when I’m pretty sure the first houses were built in the area.

I’m interested to watch this too. I grew up on 37th & Miller. I remember well when Deep Fork was a real creek with dirt, mud, rocks, snakes and who knows what else. We usually came home from Sequoyah in the creek bed instead of down 36th. If Venice was ever anything but a street it had to be pre 40s. That’s when I’m pretty sure the first houses were built in the area.

From what I understand, Cleveland was built in the 30s-40s, and Venice started around late 40s (1948 is when my neighbor's house across Venice on 35th was built, ours was built in 1950, and I think that the rest of Venice was built out in the 50s). So yeah, looks like Venice was not a street until the 1940s, and thanks, Martin, for the info about it being built by citizens instead of the city, very interesting!

I believe there was a creek where Venice is simply by way of it being on lower ground. Whether it ran other than to drain away rain l don't know.

With regard to Deep Fork Parkway, l have vague memories of what was not much more than a dirt road or alley, covered with high grass and brush, before the creek was concreted west of Drexel and widened by floods east of Drexel.

I believe there was a creek where Venice is simply by way of it being on lower ground. Whether it ran other than to drain away rain l don't know.

With regard to Deep Fork Parkway, l have vague memories of what was not much more than a dirt road or alley, covered with high grass and brush, before the creek was concreted west of Drexel and widened by floods east of Drexel.

Absolutely right about Venice Blvd being on lower ground than the surrounding area, it literally does turn back into a river during heavy rains. Highest it's ever gotten since we've lived here (5 yrs) is 3 ft up on the grass on the SW corner of 35th/Venice. There's probably a 6-ft diameter storm sewer under Venice Blvd, we (neighborhood assoc.) tried to put a sidewalk on top, but OKC wouldn't let us (rightly so).

I grew up on W Eubanks. The street started just about a half block East of May Ave and one block South of NW 36th St. My parents bought the house, brand new, in 1949. The backyard backs up to 36th. When they moved in there was nothing but pasture on the other side of 36th St from their backyard. This part of W Eubanks is only a block long (due to the way the Deep Fork Creek runs) and it ends on the East at Venice Blvd. Our house was on the N side of the street. This street is on a slight incline that’s runs down to Venice. The homes on the South side of the street have the Deep Fork behind their backyards. When I was growing up the Deep Fork was usually just a little stream. It was a playground for all the neighborhood kids. However, when there was a hard rain the creek filled up and overflowed its banks and sometimes spilled over the back yards and into the houses on the South side of Eubanks. I can remember seeing carpet and household items sitting out in the front yards of those homes after strong rain storms. Thanks Martin for posting those maps.

found it! oklahoma county assessor has pdf's of the original 1905 township maps. it appears to me that not only was there a creek roughly where venice blvd sits today but it branched and winter drive follows on top of that branch. like others have pointed out, these might have been dry ditches that were natural runoffs into the deep fork whenever it rained. either way, this map marks them. pretty cool stuff... this is why i enjoy tracking down stuff like this.

check out section 19 in the pdf below:

https://assessor.oklahomacounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/138/Oklahoma-Township-12-North-Range-3-West-PDF

here's the relevant section along with an overlay of street names to help with orientation:
http://www.magnvs.de/pics/VeniceFinal.jpg

also of note, the section of land owned by "george t. shepperd" whose family eventually sold the land that became shepherd mall.

Incredible, thanks so much, Martin! Never thought this request would bear so much fruit, very enlightening. I'm probably going to print a few of the maps and some of your commentary out (giving you full credit) and distribute at our next Neighbor's Night Out this fall, they'll be pretty amazed too, I'm guessing...

The creek that ran out of the shepperd property north through the West Point neighborhood is now just an underground storm drain.

Incredible, thanks so much, Martin! Never thought this request would bear so much fruit, very enlightening. I'm probably going to print a few of the maps and some of your commentary out (giving you full credit) and distribute at our next Neighbor's Night Out this fall, they'll be pretty amazed too, I'm guessing...

:( Neighbor's Night Out has been cancelled city-wide this year.