I would like to state for the record that Sid and I are not the same person posting under two different ids.

Sid, I have been harping on the tax liability of urban sprawl for years.

What is it about the city's website that makes the links go bad in less than a few hours?

What is it about the city's website that makes the links go bad in less than a few hours?

Again.....

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=24503

What is it about the city's website that makes the links go bad in less than a few hours?

Fixed it.

http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/view.aspx?cabinet=PUBLISHED_MEETINGS&fileid=828941

Fixed it.

http://www.okc.gov/agendapub/view.aspx?cabinet=PUBLISHED_MEETINGS&fileid=828941

Thanks

That 22-acre mixed use development listed on bidclerk is for a project at Morgan Road & SW 44th.

The listing didn't say retail on ground floor, just multi-tenant housing and retail. Probably means apartment buildings and a convenience store.

Ding ding ding. Probably another version of that apartment project across I-40 from the outlet mall u/c.

I would love someone to come buy me out here.. I am probably next especially if the arena goes in here..

I would love someone to come buy me out here.. I am probably next especially if the arena goes in here..

Contact: REHCO DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT, LLC
1041 Nw Grand Boulevard
Oklahoma City, OK 73118

They might be interested in making you an offer.

Today demolition permits were issued for all the buildings on this site.

Hopefully we'll see some sort of construction announcement soon.

Here are all the properties owned by this group -- the one outlier is a tire shop that they are probably negotiating on.

The total acreage is just over 11 but they would almost certainly close SW 2nd which would give them a couple of more.

http://www.tnttri.com/OKCTalk/downtownford2.jpg

nice...

Closing 2nd Street would make sense. I don't like closing streets but with the new Boulevard replacing I-40 it would make using this land very difficult. Once the the Boulevard goes in I can see them closing 2nd between Lee and Walker as well.

Closing 2nd Street would make sense. I don't like closing streets but with the new Boulevard replacing I-40 it would make using this land very difficult. Once the the Boulevard goes in I can see them closing 2nd between Lee and Walker as well.

Why not just use it as frontage? Typical OKC blocks are plenty, plenty large for development already.

The would certainly have to keep Hudson open and probably even Harvey -- at least to pedestrians.

I hope these guys have a lot of money behind them because this site is pivotal to not only the new downtown, but as an entre to Core to Shore.

It's also a fantastic location in general... Could be almost anything from hotel to condos to retail to office.

The would certainly have to keep Hudson open and probably even Harvey -- at least to pedestrians.

I hope these guys have a lot of money behind them because this site is pivotal to not only the new downtown, but as an entre to Core to Shore.

It's also a fantastic location in general... Could be almost anything from hotel to condos to retail to office.

i agree i don't see anyway they would be allowed to close hudson even to car traffic ... but i do think it makes sense to close harvey and 2nd with harvey becoming a pedestrian gatway from the gardens to the new park

So has anyone heard any rumors of what will be built? All we have now is retail and housing, I am pretty sure somebody knows something?

The would certainly have to keep Hudson open and probably even Harvey -- at least to pedestrians.

I hope these guys have a lot of money behind them because this site is pivotal to not only the new downtown, but as an entre to Core to Shore.

It's also a fantastic location in general... Could be almost anything from hotel to condos to retail to office.

Fred Hall is not super-loaded, but somehow he was able to make the OCU deal happen until OCU backed out. I think that was $40-50M, so I'd say it's a safe guess that at the very least he can pull off a $50M project.

Well Bob Howard is in on it to, and its a joint venture, and I am pretty sure there are more people involved then just them...I am thinking $50M to $75M project...

Fred Hall is not super-loaded...

You have no idea who Fred Hall is do you. Not surprising, most people don't. He kind of flies under the radar. Not only is he super-loaded, he can bring a lot of resources to bear on projects he supports.

Didn't Bob Howard pull out of his Midtown projects a while back?

Yeah, I'm also pretty sure this is more than just Hall and Howard. I wouldn't put the ceiling at $75M, I was just setting a realistic floor, I guess.

There is just absolutely no way to tell if they're thinking $50M or $200M.


You have no idea who Fred Hall is do you. Not surprising, most people don't. He kind of flies under the radar. Not only is he super-loaded, he can bring a lot of resources to bare on projects he supports. I would be surprised if this project comes in under $100 million.

Didn't Bob Howard pull out of his Midtown projects a while back?

Wow, just wow. Uh, yeah, I know who Fred is...

Also it's "to bear," and that was Banta who pulled out of Midtown a while back.

hopefully we we can have an announcement within the next few months, giving us something more solid to speculate on...

Let me rephrase that then - what do you consider super loaded? Keep in mind that Fred Hall derives his networth and income from private companies so places like Forbes have no idea how much he is worth so they don't report on it.

Fred Hall was CEO of the private-family owned company that owns the building OCU was going to move into.

Oh, and one more thing Kerry, the project is going to surprise people either way...

That is for sure. In fact, I have been doing some quick investigative work (Fred Hall is kind of hard to track) and I wouldn't be surprised if this project turns out to be much bigger than we can imagine if he decides to bring all of his operations into one location.

You have no idea who Fred Hall is do you. Not surprising, most people don't. He kind of flies under the radar. Not only is he super-loaded, he can bring a lot of resources to bear on projects he supports.

Didn't Bob Howard pull out of his Midtown projects a while back?

he is still actively building in Midtown but at a slower pace with less flair


and that was Banta who pulled out of Midtown a while back.

banta didn't "pull out" he was fired/kicked out of his partner ship with clag/howard

he is still actively building in Midtown but at a slower pace with less flair



banta didn't "pull out" he was fired/kicked out of his partner ship with clag/howard


That is what I remember - thanks BoulderSooner.

banta didn't "pull out" he was fired/kicked out of his partner ship with clag/howard

Depends on who you talk to.

Depends on who you talk to.

depends on if you want to believe the truth .. or some one else's fiction

Greg told the public he sold his interest on his own volition. Not sure if it's worth debating in light of what he said.

That is for sure. In fact, I have been doing some quick investigative work (Fred Hall is kind of hard to track) and I wouldn't be surprised if this project turns out to be much bigger than we can imagine if he decides to bring all of his operations into one location.

Oh yeah, well what did you "dig up" on Fred Hall, during the course of your quick investigative work?

Greg told the public he sold his interest on his own volition. Not sure if it's worth debating in light of what he said.

Not like he's going to diss himself in the public eye either. And even if he was fired, I'm sure Howard and Clagg would handle it in a gentlemanly manner and let him "resign." I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Oh yeah, well what did you "dig up" on Fred Hall, during the course of your quick investigative work?

He runs a pretty good network of private companies in drilling, auto parts manufacturing/distribution, real estate development, and capital management as well as a family trust. His operations are in OKC and Houston, and I am still tracking down if he is associated with a hedge fund in Chicago . It is hard to track because a lot of it run through agents that list the places of business as single family homes.

Here is his BIO from the Fred Jones Family Foundation

http://fredjonesfamilyfoundation.com/directors.html#fred



Frederick Jones Hall was born in Oklahoma City. He received his Bachelor of Arts from Vanderbilt University and his Master of Science in Business Administration from the University of Southern California. Fred is married to Karen and they have three children, Maguire Neal Hall, Fredrick Jones Hall IV, and Allison Cook Hall.

He is currently the Chairman of the Board of Managers for Hall Capital Partners, the Managing Partner for the Catalyst / Hall fund, and the Chairman, President, and CEO of The Fred Jones Companies, Inc, all of which are in Oklahoma City.

In the late eighties, Fred was the Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Canadian Affairs in the U.S. Department of State, and later was Chairman of the Oklahoma Transportation Authority. He was also the Vice Chairman for “Oklahomans for Reagan” both times President Reagan ran for President, as well as Vice Chairman for “Oklahomans for George W. Bush” both times President Bush ran for President. He also served as a Board Member for “Citizens for America.”

Fred has and still does help with many community service committees in Oklahoma City. He served as a board member and officer, and later became Chairman of the Oklahoma City Public Schools Foundation. He was also the Chairman of the Ballet Oklahoma board of directors, Integris Health (Baptist Hospital, Oklahoma City Industrial & Cultural Facilities Trust, Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce, and Downtown Oklahoma City, Incorporated, all of which he is still a board member.

I find it interesting that the 400 block of west reno sold for 6 million to the myriad gardens foundation. that belonged to hall at one time.. hmmmm actually might be 6.9 million can anyone check this out please

Let me rephrase that then - what do you consider super loaded? Keep in mind that Fred Hall derives his networth and income from private companies so places like Forbes have no idea how much he is worth so they don't report on it.

Fred Hall was CEO of the private-family owned company that owns the building OCU was going to move into.

I'm not sure where you get your information, Kerry. Forbes reports on the worth of David Green and his Hobby Lobby empire is privately owned.

He runs a pretty good network of private companies in drilling, auto parts manufacturing/distribution, real estate development, and capital management as well as a family trust. His operations are in OKC and Houston, and I am still tracking down if he is associated with a hedge fund in Chicago . It is hard to track because a lot of it run through agents that list the places of business as single family homes.

Here is his BIO from the Fred Jones Family Foundation

http://fredjonesfamilyfoundation.com/directors.html#fred

Wow, good research Kerry. An interesting guy indeed...

I find it interesting that the 400 block of west reno sold for 6 million to the myriad gardens foundation. that belonged to hall at one time.. hmmmm actually might be 6.9 million can anyone check this out please

Oh great, another conspiricy theroist. Your right about the selling party and price, you failed to mention that they sold this property to the MGF for much less than appraised value.

Oh great, another conspiricy theroist. Your right about the selling party and price, you failed to mention that they sold this property to the MGF for much less than appraised value.

So are you getting hyper-defensive for any reason other than that's what you do?

So are you getting hyper-defensive for any reason other than that's what you do?

Not at all, and I have "no dog in this fight". It just gets old when select few (present company included) always suspect and/or assume there's always some type of hidden agenda when those in power or with money, make move.

Well, junkie, I hate to break it to you, but there is an agenda. I don't know how hidden or insidious it is or whatever, but I'm sure you know there is an agenda, as well...

Well, junkie, I hate to break it to you, but there is an agenda. I don't know how hidden or insidious it is or whatever, but I'm sure you know there is an agenda, as well...

I'll move on and leave you and like thinkers in never never land, conspire on my friend.

How am I in "never never land??" Sorry to refute your latest cutesy little phrase, but you might want to take a look in the mirror..

We seem to have got way off track based on comment that I worded badly. Hall is not amoung the uber-wealthy (like David Green) but he probably has more net-worth than most people know. I am sure whatever gets developed on the Ford site will be quality and I am hoping for shock and awe. Like the Bass Pro deal, his project will set the standard for the area so I hope the bar gets set pretty high.

We seem to have got way off track based on comment that I worded badly. Hall is not amoung the uber-wealthy (like David Green) but he probably has more net-worth than most people know. I am sure whatever gets developed on the Ford site will be quality and I am hoping for shock and awe. Like the Bass Pro deal, his project will set the standard for the area so I hope the bar gets set pretty high. Well said, Kerry. I too hope it sets the bar high.

We seem to have got way off track based on comment that I worded badly. Hall is not amoung the uber-wealthy (like David Green) but he probably has more net-worth than most people know. I am sure whatever gets developed on the Ford site will be quality and I am hoping for shock and awe. Like the Bass Pro deal, his project will set the standard for the area so I hope the bar gets set pretty high.

Funny that you mention the Bass Pro deal..

We seem to have got way off track based on comment that I worded badly. Hall is not amoung the uber-wealthy (like David Green) but he probably has more net-worth than most people know. I am sure whatever gets developed on the Ford site will be quality and I am hoping for shock and awe. Like the Bass Pro deal, his project will set the standard for the area so I hope the bar gets set pretty high.
What standard do you mean? And in a good or bad way?

Spartan: What did you mean by your Bass Pro comment? Not that I want to get ya in trouble with RC or anything. LOL

I'm referring to the strategy of offering incentives to lure a retailer to come downtown. The ULI report concluded that OKC would have to put up many millions in incentives to lure a Nordstrom or Bloomingdale's to this exact site.

What standard do you mean? And in a good or bad way?

Spartan: What did you mean by your Bass Pro comment? Not that I want to get ya in trouble with RC or anything. LOL

Bass Pro set the bar really low and subsequent projects in the immediate area lived up to the low standard. Bass Pro was shock and awe, just not in a good way. Bass Pro should of been a 3 story building (1 story of parking and 2 stories of retail.

Yeah....an urban bass pro. Right.

Spartan & Kerry, that's what I thought (and agree)

Yeah....an urban bass pro. Right.

Our local Dick's Sporting Goods has an urban style in the St Johns Town Center. It is 2 stories and carries just about everything Bass Pro does except boats. Granted they have a large parking lot but that was built by shoppping center developer and it is located behind the building away from the street. The interior looks very similar to Bass Pro.

OKCs Bass Pro should have been built as canal front instead of making the parking lot canal front.

Kerry, Bass Pro did not care about Bricktown or the canal or any of that. The building actually has zero setback to the particular infrastructure asset they cared most about. Think about that.

All they cared about was, how close to I-40 and I-235 can we get?

The part make Bass Pro so bad is that the building was designed, built, and owned by the City of Oklahoma City. Being shot is bad enough, it is even worse when it is self-inflicted.

It will always be self-inflicted.

OKC can chose to withhold a building permit from any development it wants. Every wound in this city has always been self-inflicted in the end. The battle against some projects isn't fought in board rooms of businessman trying to make a profit, it's fought (and lost) in city hall.

The part make Bass Pro so bad is that the building was designed, built, and owned by the City of Oklahoma City. Being shot is bad enough, it is even worse when it is self-inflicted.

Yeah, it would probably have been better to let the weeds grow there. Or I can't remember, was that where Nordstoms or Niemans was going? Maybe the Ritz Carlton. It is awful having it there and taking all the development property out of play because there are no more sites to do anything on. No one ever goes to Bass Pro and it doesn't create any traffic for Bricktown or any sales tax for the city. Just terrible.

Rover - I am not complaining about the tenant - just the design and layout of the building.

Please don't let this be site of new convention center...

I deleted this post, was accidentally posted here...:)

Please don't let this be site of new convention center...

It isn't going to be. I suspect we will see development plans pretty soon. Hall and Co. wouldn't go through the expense of clearing the land unless they were planning to build something on it.

But isn't that why they installed the "canal extension" through the parking lot??? I know it is laughable to call it that, but they did anyway.

Yeah, it would probably have been better to let the weeds grow there. Or I can't remember, was that where Nordstoms or Niemans was going? Maybe the Ritz Carlton. It is awful having it there and taking all the development property out of play because there are no more sites to do anything on. No one ever goes to Bass Pro and it doesn't create any traffic for Bricktown or any sales tax for the city. Just terrible.

Obviously Bass Pro Shops and the Bricktown downtown district was a match made in heaven.