TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.

Holy crap, what??? How do you let that happen as a...plot twist...higher-education institution?

Exactly. It's pretty well regarded in the PA, it'll be fine. You'd be surprised how many kids come from all over for the PA program.

While the endowment and enrollment are lower so is their operating expenses.

As a Bass School of Music alum I can tell you, at least when I was there 10-15 years ago, there were considerably more non-Oklahomans than Oklahomans in the Music and Dance programs. In the music school there was also a good contingent of international students. I doubt that has changed.

TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

I think the Greens would step in with a few $100MM if money gets tight at ORU.

TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

TU must be blowing through that endowment.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/tu-lays-off-47-people-as-part-of-substantial-organizational-change/article_670f3395-e6ea-5274-bf7e-065f5f0241ca.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

The issue isn’t TU vs OCU, it is TU vs U of Texas at over $4 Billion, and other private schools nearby. If yo add OU at $1.8 Billion, OSU at $750, TU at $1.4 B, AND THROW IN OCU, it still doesn’t equal just the Univ of Texas, which is smaller than T A&M.

The issue isn’t TU vs OCU, it is TU vs U of Texas at over $4 Billion, and other private schools nearby. If yo add OU at $1.8 Billion, OSU at $750, TU at $1.4 B, AND THROW IN OCU, it still doesn’t equal just the Univ of Texas, which is smaller than T A&M.

Well of course not. UT has 60,000 kids a year, and is in a state with 8 times the population of Oklahoma. Comparing a small grape to a vine right here.

Well of course not. UT has 60,000 kids a year, and is in a state with 8 times the population of Oklahoma. Comparing a small grape to a vine right here.

Come on .... SMU has a bigger endowment than any OK school. It’s about commitment to excellence and education as a core value.

For education, or in general? I thought ORU lost accreditation in some programs.

Education department: https://www.kjrh.com/sports/college-sports/university-of-tulsa/university-of-tulsa-loses-education-department-accreditation

Education department: https://www.kjrh.com/sports/college-sports/university-of-tulsa/university-of-tulsa-loses-education-department-accreditation

That article is from 2017. Accreditation was restored the following year. https://utulsa.edu/education-accreditation-update/

Nm

Nm

That's what Elon said.

Telsa Service Center in Tulsa opens the 28th. Some people have already gotten notice for their first appointment.

Musk moving to Texas. Step 1 complete.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/12/5/22155743/elon-musk-moving-texas-tesla-spacex-california?__twitter_impression=true

The only reason Tulsa didn’t win is because Musk wants to live in Austin. The pitch evolved into convince musk to live in Tulsa. He told Stitt he wanted to try living in Austin and therefore the factory was going to Austin, but Tulsa is on a very very short list for future expansion.

Musk moving to Texas. Step 1 complete.

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/12/5/22155743/elon-musk-moving-texas-tesla-spacex-california?__twitter_impression=true

The only reason Tulsa didn’t win is because Musk wants to live in Austin. The pitch evolved into convince musk to live in Tulsa. He told Stitt he wanted to try living in Austin and therefore the factory was going to Austin, but Tulsa is on a very very short list for future expansion.

I know people involved in the Austin site. Your explanation is incorrect. Tulsa lost for lots of reason. Sorry Tulsa, you just don’t stack up well to Austin.

I know people involved in the Austin site. Your explanation is incorrect. Tulsa lost for lots of reason. Sorry Tulsa, you just don’t stack up well to Austin.

My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.

My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.

Same

Same

Are these people Oklahoma people or blue-blooded Texas people?

My people are basically in agreement with gopokes’s people. This was much closer than your people might otherwise suggest.

Since I know my source’s involvement in the project, I’ll just stick with my information. Sorry it hurts Tulsan’s feelings.

I don't doubt that there were many reasons we didn't win this bid, and I didn't really expect us to, but the attention was exciting. If it weren't for the pandemic I'd be really upset that we didn't roll the momentum into something else. It is silly that we laid out the red carpet so hard for Musk, but haven't done the same for anyone else. Let's go nuts getting some smaller manufacturers to come to town like Greenheck and Milo's Tea. We don't need the next big flashy thing, just something to keep the ball rolling!

Since I know my source’s involvement in the project, I’ll just stick with my information. Sorry it hurts Tulsan’s feelings.
These two articles do lend credance to your position on the viability of the future of Tesla and Tulsa.

Tesla To Build a Battery Factory at Giga Texas | Torque News
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.torquenews.com/video/tesla-build-battery-factory-giga-texas/amp

Tesla Hiring Battery Engineers In North Carolina & Semi Truck Engineers In Nevada
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2021/01/01/tesla-hiring-battery-engineers-in-north-carolina-semi-truck-engineers-in-nevada/amp/

These two articles do lend credance to your position on the viability of the future of Tesla and Tulsa.

Tesla To Build a Battery Factory at Giga Texas | Torque News
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.torquenews.com/video/tesla-build-battery-factory-giga-texas/amp

Tesla Hiring Battery Engineers In North Carolina & Semi Truck Engineers In Nevada
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2021/01/01/tesla-hiring-battery-engineers-in-north-carolina-semi-truck-engineers-in-nevada/amp/

I will say Oklahoma does not compete well with ANYPLACE that has an educated populace and competent State Government. Not to mention the racist/bigoted attitude of the population. Just no compelling reason to locate high tech,HW and SW engineering in the State. I know ,Tinker but that is Government (socialist) driven. Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La) ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere

It’s so disheartening to see major companies like Tesla not give Oklahoma the time of day. Sure we land small tech firms or call centers we are missing out on so much like Amazon taking their air services to Indiana, or Tesla opening major production facilities, things like Space X, BMW production facility(lots of European car companies are building new production plants in the states), etc.

This state just doesn’t seem to care about doing what it really takes. So I guess we’ll have to simply wait for the seemingly inevitable that Texas will start to experience some of the problems California is that has led to the exodus to nearby states. I see that happening with Oklahoma.

Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La) ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere

HaHa. I'd guess we might be closer to 4M than you think if all the illegals were counted.

HaHa. I'd guess we might be closer to 4M than you think if all the illegals were counted.

YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course

I will say Oklahoma does not compete well with ANYPLACE that has an educated populace and competent State Government. Not to mention the racist/bigoted attitude of the population. Just no compelling reason to locate high tech,HW and SW engineering in the State. I know ,Tinker but that is Government (socialist) driven. Include the 2d or 3rd tier higher education system and you see why the State won't reach 4M in 2020 while other States separate from Ok (Oregon/Colo, Ky, La) ) or gain (UT) on OK. Not growing not going anywhere

It's still worth noting that it was Tulsa than landed the no. 2 position of all cities rather than a city from one of the states you mentioned. Oklahoma City and Tulsa needs to be focused on making them more desirable places for business than on the state as a whole.

I suppose it wouldn't help much for Oklahoma to try to attract low paying companies, since it also has Texas to compete with on that as well. And Kansas.

It's still worth noting that it was Tulsa than landed the no. 2 position of all cities rather than a city from one of the states you mentioned. Oklahoma City and Tulsa needs to be focused on making them more desirable places for business than on the state as a whole.

I suppose it wouldn't help much for Oklahoma to try to attract low paying companies, since it also has Texas to compete with on that as well. And Kansas.

OK and Tulsa were willing to engage in promises of give-aways. Other cities could have competed and do for other things. Tulsa was and is always going to lose to Austin. Austin has brain and capital resources Tulsa does not. Oklahomans have never championed education or higher skills and will lose to those who do value them.

OKC and Tulsa cannot be separate from OK. Oklahoma laws take precedence and as long as it is ruled by it's current group it will stay at least two steps behind its competitors for economic development. We have determined that we will be a follower and not a leader society here.

YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course

Stagnation? OKC’s unemployment rate was below 3% before the CV broke out.

Seems like you just don’t like OKC.

Stagnation? OKC’s unemployment rate was below 3% before the CV broke out.

Seems like you just don’t like OKC.

Oklahoma’s population also grew by over 20k from July 2019 to July 2020. Not high growth but far from stagnant. The following states lost population during the same time period: CT, NJ, NY, MA, PA, VT, WV, IL, MI, OH, AK, CA, HI, LA & MS.

And for a manufacturing operation like Tesla Oklahoma is absolutely on the same level as Texas. Tulsa will likely have a Tesla operation of some kind within the next decade, possibly sooner. Tulsa specifically is very well-suited for advanced manufacturing, it’s already a global leader in aerospace, oil & gas machinery and heat exchanger manufacturing and through programs at TU, TCC, Tulsa Tech and Tulsa Welding School has a skilled manufacturing workforce.

YOU would make a joke out of stagnation. Par for the course

I see you are up to your old crap again. Listen, I've got 5 doctors in my family, so were educated.

But I get the drift.

...Listen, I've got 5 doctors in my family, so were educated.
Irony abounds, ha.

As part of an open records request, an article in today's Oklahoman (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/03/15/oklahomans-urged-governor-impose-covid-lockdowns-documents-show/4693166001/) has this tidbit:


In response to a June 2020 request by Kouplen to arrange a meeting between Musk and the governor, Musk responded: "Out of respect, sure. The fundamental problem I have is getting people to move out of California. Austin (Texas) is one of the few places to which they will move."

Sean Koupen is Oklahoma's secretary of workforce development.

Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.

"In response to a June 2020 request by Kouplen to arrange a meeting between Musk and the governor, Musk responded: "Out of respect, sure. The fundamental problem I have is getting people to move out of California. Austin (Texas) is one of the few places to which they will move."

Apparently the information Rover had was more credible than the info of others "knowing from their source" that it was close between Tulsa and Austin.

Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.

I don't think hundreds throughout the summer is nice weather and the freak cold spell in Feb. better not repeat itself next winter.

Colorado is great for mountain scenery, skiing and is fast growing, yet, didn't attract Tesla.

Oklahoma may be more attractive to companies from the northern states, such as New York.

Makes sense honestly. Austin has nice weather pretty much year round and a young population. I dont think we see a lot of young people clamoring to move to Oklahoma.

Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house. Then they make rethink that decision.

Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house. Then they make rethink that decision.
Lol they came from California. High rent or even taxes isn’t in their vocabulary.

There is absolutely no way they seriously considered Tulsa.

Musk met with Stitt as a courtesy and probably a bargaining tool.

They should consider OKC for a plant.

They should consider OKC for a plant.

OKC is still Oklahoma. Ain't happening for Musk.

Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house. Then they make rethink that decision.

Comparing Austin to California. Not Austin to OKC.

Just wait until they try to rent an apartment or, God forbid, buy a house. Then they make rethink that decision.

How do you know house prices in Austin are not lower than in California?

Lol they came from California. High rent or even taxes isn’t in their vocabulary.

True for the engineers coming from California. But the majority of the plant workers are hourly employees. I would think housing affordability would be something they would be interested in, but maybe Austin is just so great no one cares.

The Tesla plant is in Fremont, which is right in the middle of the Bay Area and one of the most expensive places to live in the entire country.

Even well-paid people usually rent.


It's hard to comprehend the difference, so I'll give you an example from my personal experience. I lived in Southern Cal for 15 years before I bought a house and I was a Senior VP for a large financial institution and made almost $300K/year.

And even then, I had to live an hour from downtown. There was nothing I could come close to affording within 20 miles of the ocean.

I bought a nicer house here, near Penn Square (one of the better areas of town), completely remodeled top to bottom. Bigger than my California house, nicer and on a yard triple the size. And I paid almost exactly 1/4 of what I sold my house for in Cali. And remember, this is way outside of L.A.; way past the San Fernando Valley.

As more perspective, for almost 10 years I was the head coach of a huge triathlon program on the west side of L.A. I coached over 500 athletes and almost all of them were highly educated. Ivy League degrees, doctors, attorneys, MBA's, etc. And only a handful of them owned a home of any sort, let alone a house.

I have many friends in the Bay Area and interviewed for several jobs there, and it's even worse.




I mean this with all due respect, but until you've lived out there and had to deal with the housing market for a long time, it's very hard to comprehend how difficult it is to live in a decent, well-located place. And for a factory worker, they could almost never sniff owning a home of any type.

The ritzy parts of Austin are no doubt expensive but this factory is going to be outside of town and I just looked on Zillow in that immediate area and found a very nice 3bd 2ba house for $250K. That would be a million-dollar+ house in the Bay Area.

Having friends who lived in SF and around the Bay. Dear lord. The rent was insane. I was jealous of their tech jobs but I couldn’t imagine having a family there. In Austin you can or live in a suburb around there. It is a good move for Tesla. Plus the tax breaks of course.

Having friends who lived in SF and around the Bay. Dear lord. The rent was insane. I was jealous of their tech jobs but I couldn’t imagine having a family there. In Austin you can or live in a suburb around there. It is a good move for Tesla. Plus the tax breaks of course.

Big difference in Austin and its suburbs to the east. You can still find affordable housing in those areas, and many of the hourly workers would probably be living in those areas. But the city itself and areas to the west would be out of reach for most of these workers. There will be a number of high salary engineers and executives that could certainly afford it, and that’s who Musk was likely referring to when he said Austin is the only place outside California where they would want to move.

As part of an open records request, an article in today's Oklahoman (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/03/15/oklahomans-urged-governor-impose-covid-lockdowns-documents-show/4693166001/) has this tidbit:



Sean Koupen is Oklahoma's secretary of workforce development.

Bwahaha I saw that. The people who are charged with our economic development for the state in the current administration are throwing darts at a wall, unaware or unwilling to make the policy changes and education investments necessary to begin to attract a company like Tesla. They literally still think low wages and low taxes will attract Tier One companies.

^

The very rich people that make the decisions first consider where THEY want to live and then where they can get their rich execs to move and then the special talent they will need to hire.

It doesn't matter the cost for rank-and-file employees if you can't clear those hurdles.

This has been demonstrated over and over.

There is absolutely no way they seriously considered Tulsa.

Musk met with Stitt as a courtesy and probably a bargaining tool.

Exactly! I'm one of the biggest boosters of Oklahoma/OKC you'll meet, but it's important to keep the ol' Glasses of Reality firmly affixed to our faces. It was obvious that Tulsa was never a true consideration for a great number of reasons.

I can sympathize with Musk, though not as I wish--as a billionaire. I'm in the process of trying to hire executive level staff for very good jobs with a very good company in OKC and it is EXTREMELY difficult to convince people to move here from out of state, even with my patented spiel.

Exactly! I'm one of the biggest boosters of Oklahoma/OKC you'll meet, but it's important to keep the ol' Glasses of Reality firmly affixed to our faces. It was obvious that Tulsa was never a true consideration for a great number of reasons.

I can sympathize with Musk, though not as I wish--as a billionaire. I'm in the process of trying to hire executive level staff for very good jobs with a very good company in OKC and it is EXTREMELY difficult to convince people to move here from out of state, even with my patented spiel.

Just curious, do they give exact reasons?

In line with why people don't want to move here...

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/paycom-ceo-verbally-sparred-with-coburn-over-tax-increases

In line with why people don't want to move here...

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/paycom-ceo-verbally-sparred-with-coburn-over-tax-increases

From that article where Paycom CEO Richison was advocating against tax cuts:


Richison wrote that Paycom employees and potential employees were “concerned about sending their children to our schools, colleges and universities,” and cited issues such as “four day school weeks.” The letter indicated that tax increases were required to address those challenges.


Richison also wrote a letter to Stitt imploring him to implement stronger preventative measures around Covid-19.

https://www.kosu.org/post/face-covid-19-paycom-ceo-chad-richison-urges-oklahoma-gov-stitt-do-more

I guess I thought this facility was going to be more production focused. I never expected a lot of the higher up jobs to come to Tulsa.

We so badly need better educational resources in Tulsa to build our own workforces. The deal to allow OSU Tulsa to expand could be a huge, but it will take time to implement and there are still road blocks. TU keeps falling apart and can't seem to decide what it wants to be. ORU is... ORU...

I don't think this state will ever have enough billionaire philanthropists to catch up to the rest of the nation, and I don't see our culture changing anytime soon to adopt the priorities that we need.

I guess I thought this facility was going to be more production focused. I never expected a lot of the higher up jobs to come to Tulsa..

The factory is mostly production focused. But there are engineering and executive positions, especially if the HQ eventually moves there. If it was just factory jobs I would think Tulsa’s workforce would be more than adequate and likely better than Austin with the existing aerospace/O&G/heat exchanger manufacturing base in Tulsa along with Tulsa Tech/TCC.

In line with why people don't want to move here...

https://www.ocpathink.org/post/paycom-ceo-verbally-sparred-with-coburn-over-tax-increases

Oklahoma is like a hotel with a roach infestation. Instead of paying for an exterminator they think lowering the room rate from 40 dollars a night to 38 dollars a night will fix the problem. They then scratch their heads and wonder why the guests who stay at the Ritz-Carlton never want to book a night at their 38 dollar a night roach infested hotel.

Oklahoma has to stop pushing for tax cuts and start pushing for education funding.

Just curious, do they give exact reasons?

More often than not, they just don't know much about Oklahoma, so they have no idea why Oklahoma might be a good place to live. In other words, there is no appeal to them. This doesn't mean they view the state negatively--it's just that it never enters their mind as a place to consider living. Other than that, education is definitely a big one. Most of the people I'm hiring have families, so they immediately look into schools here and they will ask me about schools. I can sweet talk the benefits of Oklahoma with the best of them, but I can't talk the state out of it's educational deficits--and few parents of school aged children are going to move their kids to a state with a 4 day school week or failing schools, even if I offer them a salary of $300k. It's a major problem.

Oklahoma is like a hotel with a roach infestation. Instead of paying for an exterminator they think lowering the room rate from 40 dollars a night to 38 dollars a night will fix the problem. They then scratch their heads and wonder why the guests who stay at the Ritz-Carlton never want to book a night at their 38 dollar a night roach infested hotel.

Oklahoma has to stop pushing for tax cuts and start pushing for education funding.

So, other states that support education better, such as Kansas and Iowa are not growing as much in population as Oklahoma. So it seems Oklahoma would grow even faster in population than those states if only it would support education better.

At any rate, wealthy alumni need to continue to support higher education in Oklahoma, since the state legislature won't do it. OSU/Stillwater in recent years has quite fabulously benefited from the donations of wealthy alumni. For starters, the new state of the art $60,000,000 McKnight Center For the Performing Arts. It has raised the quality of living in Stillwater, and it's highly unfortunate that Stillwater can't attract any major new industry as a result and despite having daily passenger flight service to DFW.

Tulsa has benefited well from the donations of the wealthy, so it could have something extra special, like the new world class Gathering Place park. Hopefully, Tulsa will continue to benefit in that way. Surely, the wealthy in OKC should make massive donations for iconic projects to make OKC a better place to live. The tax supported Scissortail Park is nice, though.

Californians from the valley do not like cold weather. I know the original comparison is Tulsa vs Austin, but I will use OKC, it is similar.

Austin's lowest average temperature for any month is not even below 40. Whereas Oklahoma City has 3 months of lows that average below freezing. That is a massive difference with similar summer seasons. Oh and wind and humidity factor is significantly different in both areas. Austin's higher humidity means winter feels warmer than the same temperatures in a drier OKC.

Bottomline, their weather is better for people that do not like cold. Which is most people that live in Cali. Then add all the other controllable factors like Education, Arts, Entertainment, Taxes, Job types. etc.

^^^ are you talking about SF valley or the Central Valley because it can get pretty chilly in the Central Valley.

So, other states that support education better, such as Kansas and Iowa are not growing as much in population as Oklahoma. So it seems Oklahoma would grow even faster in population than those states if only it would support education better.

At any rate, wealthy alumni need to continue to support higher education in Oklahoma, since the state legislature won't do it. OSU/Stillwater in recent years has quite fabulously benefited from the donations of wealthy alumni. For starters, the new state of the art $60,000,000 McKnight Center For the Performing Arts. It has raised the quality of living in Stillwater, and it's highly unfortunate that Stillwater can't attract any major new industry as a result and despite having daily passenger flight service to DFW.

Tulsa has benefited well from the donations of the wealthy, so it could have something extra special, like the new world class Gathering Place park. Hopefully, Tulsa will continue to benefit in that way. Surely, the wealthy in OKC should make massive donations for iconic projects to make OKC a better place to live. The tax supported Scissortail Park is nice, though.

The education issue is more at the k-12 level, even more than at the collegiate.

And, iconic projects aren’t what makes places more livable. That’s like saying paint is why people choose a house.

Why do people think the wealthy donating to parks and such is the answer? Maybe it’s the rest of everybody electing people who actually know something to our governing bodies that will make a difference. It’s not about someone else bailing everyone out, it’s about taking responsibility for our own decisions.

^^^ are you talking about SF valley or the Central Valley because it can get pretty chilly in the Central Valley.

The topic is the Tesla facility, which is in SF.