KU is AAU, main campus is in Lawrence, KUMC is in KCK.

Right. I've noticed most medical schools are located in the largest city of the state and not at the main campus (unless it too is in the largest city, like the UW-Seattle). Isn't U Texas Medical at the Texas Medical Center in Houston not Austin (and isn't OKC's Oklahoma Health Center a near exact smaller copy of TMC?)

Perhaps OU could try to become more of a research university (like the UW is). I think OU is probably only research for Weather (obvioulsy, OU is the biggest in the country for that) and probably some energy related, but why not go after other sectors/initiatives?

We/Seattle get tons of federal (and private) dollars for research up here for just about everything; you all know who does the Coronavirus Covid-19 models for the United States government? YEP, the University of Washington. We're also doing the first virus testing in conjunction with Kaiser Permanente.

Just a small but very current example of perhaps research dollars quickly being utilized/authorized and why Seattle is often mentioned so positively and perhaps something OKC/OU could try to jump on. UW is always testing for this and that, researching grants for this and that, for all economic and academic sectors. ..

Interesting perspective from the man himself on why Austin was chosen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZTBUtmX3M

Interesting perspective from the man himself on why Austin was chosen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZTBUtmX3M

He specifically said that key people that would need to move from California strongly preferred Austin.

When asked about Oklahoma: "Wasn't a matter of who wanted Tesla. There's a critical mass of engineering and management that are needed to create this factory. There are a lot of smart talented people; it's not like just dropping a copy machine somewhere. The factory is the product more than the car. So it matters where these really talented people are willing to go and what is an uphill battle. Austin was not an uphill battle; that's why we picked Austin."

Also said there will be a 3rd gigafactory but said it would likely be in the northeast U.S. in the next 4-5 years.

HQ will stay in California in the short-term; long-term "we'll see".

Same negatives expressed 30 years ago about Oklahoma. lags most of the nation in higher education ranking and Q of L. People want to live in more progressive Cities/States. Oklahomas Uber conservative, poor education system and low number of college graduates. State leaders STILL don't have a program on how to grow talent in State and keep them. Doesn't help when you have Governor and legislatures that focus on Stupid SXXT.

The governor in Texas and their legislature gets the same sort of criticism.

The common thread between Austin, the Bay Area and the Northeast are great universities which in turn yield and attract the best and brightest from all over the world. That feeds off itself in a million different ways.

Musk specifically mentioned they floated Dallas and the team was not interested.

Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles.

As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.

Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles.

As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.

Right, the other Tesla factories are in Reno and Buffalo, not exactly education centers. And their electric truck competitor Rivian has their main factory in Normal, Illinois. The average salary for a Tesla factory worker is only $35k with no college degree required; I imagine many of these workers would've rather been in Tulsa where their salary would go further.

Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles.

As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.
Weather in Austin isn’t like California unless you are talking about Barstow, or Bakersfield. Certainly isn’t like San Francisco, San Diego or west LA area.

And taxes in Tex are high overall...just no income tax. So, high earners not worried about property taxes etc, love to move there companies their regardless of the neg effect on the lower tier of their wage earners. Overall, cost for working class is better in Tulsa or OKC.

Doesn’t really explain the Nevada Gigafactory, though. There’s not an elite college within 250 miles.

As for Austin, people like it because it has California’s weather without all of the goofy taxes and red tape.

The Nevada factory is a very different animal; only for batteries.

Not at all an apt comparison.

Right, the other Tesla factories are in Reno and Buffalo, not exactly education centers. And their electric truck competitor Rivian has their main factory in Normal, Illinois. The average salary for a Tesla factory worker is only $35k with no college degree required; I imagine many of these workers would've rather been in Tulsa where their salary would go further.

Both Reno and Buffalo are battery factories.

Very, very different.


The factory workers are clearly not the primary consideration; they are always going to hire local people for that. It's the management team that matters and they were never going to choose Tulsa over Austin.


I realize people are desperate to think Tulsa was somehow competitive for this Tesla facility, but I think it's pretty clear it was never a serious consideration given Musk's comments.

Same negatives expressed 30 years ago about Oklahoma. lags most of the nation in higher education ranking and Q of L. People want to live in more progressive Cities/States. Oklahomas Uber conservative, poor education system and low number of college graduates. State leaders STILL don't have a program on how to grow talent in State and keep them. Doesn't help when you have Governor and legislatures that focus on Stupid SXXT.

Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.

As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin.

But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.

Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.

As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin.

But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.

What metric are you using claiming Austin is as conservative as Tulsa? Mayor? Congressional Rep?

How is a AAU member university overated because of size? UT is hardly overrated by any measurable criteria or academic memberships.

As far as a fair fight, Musk did not consider OKC so he did not think along your lines.

To echo Pete, Tulsa was not a viable candidate and to Musk it was an unnecessary uphill battle.

What metric are you using claiming Austin is as conservative as Tulsa? Mayor? Congressional Rep?

How is a AAU member university overated because of size? UT is hardly overrated by any measurable criteria or academic memberships.

As far as a fair fight, Musk did not consider OKC so he did not think along your lines.

To echo Pete, Tulsa was not a viable candidate and to Musk it was an unnecessary uphill battle.

I think the Governor and Tulsa did that together, and OKC did not even want to try, since they knew it was a waste of taxpayer money. Tulsa won't get as much out of this as people thought.

And again, money allows for a lot of things. UT can piss money down the drain, and still have plenty to use. None of the OK schools can do that, and that is not even counting state appropriations. Yes, OK needs to invest more in higher ed, but lets not make it seem like the state of TX is infinitely better.

Austin is not conservative, but the state is HIGHLY conservative.

Tulsa simply doesn't have the talent pool that Austin has.

Tulsa and the state as a whole should take Musk's comments as motivation to implement better policies to try and remedy that, instead of, "Hey, they thought about coming here! I think we're doing a good job!"

If a company considers moving to your state/city as an "uphill battle," then that's not a good sign. That's why few large companies outside of call centers have set up shop in Tulsa.

Tulsa simply doesn't have the talent pool that Austin has.

Tulsa and the state as a whole should take Musk's comments as motivation to implement better policies to try and remedy that, instead of, "Hey, they thought about coming here! I think we're doing a good job!"

If a company considers moving to your state/city as an "uphill battle," then that's not a good sign. That's why few large companies outside of call centers have set up shop in Tulsa.

But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.

But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.

Exactly. State and city leaders should ask themselves why that was the case.

Texas is almost, if not more, conservative. Austin just happens to have a massive university that overrates itself, and is inflated by its size and mass.

As I said before, OKC vs. Austin is much more of a fair fight than Tulsa vs. Austin.

But TX legislators focus on the same stuff, they just have more money and people to play with. Your argument is invalid when it comes to Texas.

One thing I notice about some posters, no matter what deficiencies are accurately expressed about Oklahoma relative to growth and prosperity someone will inevitably find an “excuse” for why Oklahoma loses. We don’t have mountains, ocean or something else. Accepting second place is viewed as good. People on this board stated coming in second isn’t so bad. Has nothing to do with conservatism but excellence in education, infrastructure, business acumen. No one seems to want to account and “focus “ attention on the shortcomings addressing “why” Tulsa has to take out an ad asking people “if” they could relocate. Maybe it’s the high crime rate for some city it’s size, poor roads, or any number of other deficiencies. Growth in Tulsa has been stagnant for decades.
OKC couldnÂ’t compete with Austin either. Afraid Oklahoma may never change, mediocrity is too ingrained.

I think the Governor and Tulsa did that together, and OKC did not even want to try, since they knew it was a waste of taxpayer money. Tulsa won't get as much out of this as people thought.

And again, money allows for a lot of things. UT can piss money down the drain, and still have plenty to use. None of the OK schools can do that, and that is not even counting state appropriations. Yes, OK needs to invest more in higher ed, but lets not make it seem like the state of TX is infinitely better.

Austin is not conservative, but the state is HIGHLY conservative.

Nope. Right now Cornyn and Trump trail their opponents. Cruz was in the fight of his life two years ago. Statewide, Texas voters are not as conservative as their Oklahoma counterpoints are.

One thing I notice about some posters, no matter what deficiencies are accurately expressed about Oklahoma relative to growth and prosperity someone will inevitably find an “excuse” for why Oklahoma loses. We don’t have mountains, ocean or something else. Accepting second place is viewed as good. People on this board stated coming in second isn’t so bad. Has nothing to do with conservatism but excellence in education, infrastructure, business acumen. No one seems to want to account and “focus “ attention on the shortcomings addressing “why” Tulsa has to take out an ad asking people “if” they could relocate. Maybe it’s the high crime rate for some city it’s size, poor roads, or any number of other deficiencies. Growth in Tulsa has been stagnant for decades.
OKC couldnÂ’t compete with Austin either. Afraid Oklahoma may never change, mediocrity is too ingrained.

Don't patronize me. I want change. But people saying Texas is this liberal bastion are just wrong. I know OK has deficiencies, and is not wanting to fix them.

Don't patronize me. I want change. But people saying Texas is this liberal bastion are just wrong. I know OK has deficiencies, and is not wanting to fix them.

C'mon quit with the hyperbole.

C'mon quit with the hyperbole.

OKC voted out Russell. They did not vote in favor of Stitt. OKC is not at all like the rest of the state. OKC is an exception, which is why I truly think OKC would have been given a fair shake vs. Austin. OKC is near OU and close to OSU, as well as UCO. OKCU and Oklahoma Christian University also have solid schools, as well.

Yes, Texas has benefits that OK will never have. But saying that because the whole state is conservative does not mean OKC is. Same with you and Austin. A large, large majority of legislators in TX are still GOP.

Sorry for going political, but it was introduced by others. And I am not saying that OK is doing well, either. They are held back by 23rd St. and OKC is held back more than any other city in America, I would argue because of it.

The biggest reason you only see slow, incremental change in OKC or anywhere in the state is because we don't have many people moving here from other places.

This is a force that completely builds on itself and for a city and state our size, we have very little of it.

This is, again, another huge benefit of having a great university. OU gets a lot of kids from the Dallas area and that's about it. When I lived in California and took classes at Pepperdine, UCLA and USC, the people were literally from all over the globe; it was amazing and fascinating and motivating and I loved it. In fact, the really great students in California high schools tended to go to Ivy League schools. East Coast and Midwestern kids came in droves to Stanford, Berkeley and the rest.

So, you get this massive influence from all over and because the job markets are so good, a lot of them stay. And so it goes, year after year.

You get that same thing in Austin and Boston and the NC Tech Triangle.


We are doing way better than we did and more than anyone I appreciate that, but it's all from a very low basis.

To make a big leap, you need a lot of outside people and ideas and then the money that flows from all that.

And, I'll say this again, the best way to make that happen is to have at least one great university and Oklahoma has exactly zero that are anywhere close to that standard.

the biggest reason you only see slow, incremental change in okc or anywhere in the state is because we don't have many people moving here from other places.

this is a force that completely builds on itself and for a city and state our size, we have very little of it.

This is, again, another huge benefit of having a great university. Ou gets a lot of kids from the dallas area and that's about it. When i lived in california and took classes at pepperdine, ucla and usc, the people were literally from all over the globe; it was amazing and fascinating and motivating and i loved it. In fact, the really great students in california high schools tended to go to ivy league schools. East coast and midwestern kids came in droves to stanford, berkeley and the rest.

So, you get this massive influence from all over and because the job markets are so good, a lot of them stay. And so it goes, year after year.

You get that same thing in austin and boston and the nc tech triangle.


We are doing way better than we did and more than anyone i appreciate that, but it's all from a very low basis.

to make a big leap, you need a lot of outside people and ideas and then the money that flows from all that.

and, i'll say this again, the best way to make that happen is to have at least one great university and oklahoma has exactly zero that are anywhere close to that standard.



+1

Imagine a cold winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.

You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.

Imagine a cold winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.

You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.

Except OKC is double the square miles. We might actually be able to fit all that! :)

Imagine a cold winter day in OKC being around 40 degrees. Imagine OU and the capitol buildings all being downtown. Imagine the Oklahoma River being an actual flowing, recreational river.

You just imagined a discounted Austin, TX.

I've mentioned this before but OKC not putting the capitol grounds downtown is one of the all time mistakes made by this city. The rest are hypothetical scenarios but your'e absolutely correct. Imagine how far along the city would be if you combined the OU and OSU campuses and put them in downtown OKC. That would be comparable with what Austin has with its UT student population. Just an unreal advantage.

But they never even were serious about Tulsa. They barely visited, and that was after they had made up their minds.

How do you know that? They scouted dozens of locations and narrowed them down to Austin, Tulsa and Nashville. Austin and Tulsa were the two finalists. Texas was a finalist for Gigafactory 1 that ultimately went to Reno so Tesla was more familiar with them than they were Tulsa or Nashville.

I've mentioned this before but OKC not putting the capitol grounds downtown is one of the all time mistakes made by this city. The rest are hypothetical scenarios but your'e absolutely correct. Imagine how far along the city would be if you combined the OU and OSU campuses and put them in downtown OKC. That would be comparable with what Austin has with its UT student population. Just an unreal advantage.

Thinking about most of the states I'm familiar with, Texas is the exception to the rule of the flagship University not being in the state capital. Ohio State is another.

Thinking about most of the states I'm familiar with, Texas is the exception to the rule of the flagship University not being in the state capital. Ohio State is another.

Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.

Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.

Washington, Georgia too.

Florida, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Utah, New Mexico, New York, Hawaii, Louisiana also have flagship universities in the capital. Most are like OKC with the college being in a suburb or nearby town.

University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.

Washington, Georgia too.

University of Georgia-Athens. Capital Atlanta

University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.

New Mexico’s flagship is in Albuquerque.

University of Florida- Gainsville. Capital Tallahassee.
NY has no flagship . SUNY Buffalo is unofficial flagship. Capital is Albany.

SUNY has a flagship in Albany. FSU is in Tallahassee.

New Mexico’s flagship is in Albuquerque.

My mistake, I always thing ABQ is the capital.

University of Georgia-Athens. Capital Atlanta

Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.

Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.

1flagship per state, which I define as "The University of..."

SUNY has a flagship in Albany. FSU is in Tallahassee.

SUNY Buffalo has more endowments,more funding and students. SUNY Albany is not Buffalo. That's why Tesla and Panasonic solar cell facilities are there.
Just like I don't consider OSU(Oklahoma)the flagship, neither do I consider FSU to be THE flagship in Florida.

1flagship per state, which I define as "The University of..."

Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma. TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132. OSU is way behind at #192.

Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma. TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132. OSU is way behind at #192.

TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private. But yes, OSU needs to step their game up.

TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private.

More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small. Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okuniversities.jpg

That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.

That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.

It's down everywhere, pretty much. Not just Oklahoma, either.

I could swear UCO had ~25K when I attended in the 90s

That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.

Yeah I’m forgetting where I read about it but several articles have been written over the last few years about declining attendance issues at small schools around the country. I want to say that several people have predicted that something like 30% of small-midsized schools are at risk of closing over the next 20 years (I didn’t look it up so the numbers could be completely off but the point was that a significant number of colleges face a very uncertain not to distance future). I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Covid is going to compound and hasten funding/attendance issues for those those schools.

More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small. Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okuniversities.jpg

Where did you find this chart, Pete?

Where did you find this chart, Pete?

https://www.stateuniversity.com/rank_by_state/tot_enroll_rank/OK.html

https://www.stateuniversity.com/rank_by_state/tot_enroll_rank/OK.html

Thank you

TU can't really be in this conversation, since they are private. But yes, OSU needs to step their game up.

Yet more rich people need to stand up to fund more new academic buildings at OSU. The new McKnight Center was a big step up for attracting top grade performance arts, but it's not rocket science.

That chart really makes it look like college enrollment is down from 2015 to 2020. Not good for a lot of the smaller schools.

At least OU-Norman fans can take great heart that OSU-Stillwater is no longer threatening to out enroll it. I would venture to guess that agriculture classes are down at OSU, reflecting the decline of rural Oklahoma.

A great college town should be able to attract major industries. Stillwater hasn't been able to do that, aside from Asco Aerospace.

At least OU-Norman fans can take great heart that OSU-Stillwater is no longer threatening to out enroll it. I would venture to guess that agriculture classes are down at OSU, reflecting the decline of rural Oklahoma.

A great college town should be able to attract major industries. Stillwater hasn't been able to do that, aside from Asco.

Which is why OSU should focus more on growing its urban campus in Tulsa along with research facilities and health sciences programs at OSUHSC. Tulsa is a key part of elevating OSU.

Correct OU is the flagship university in Oklahoma. TU is the highest ranked university in the state at #121 (per US News & World Report) though OU is not far behind at #132. OSU is way behind at #192.

I've said this a lot of time on this board, but using these rankings like this (e.g., this program is #121 and this one is #192) is silly. It's amazing how if you give people a number, they just believe it. The criteria for these rankings are have little do with educational quality.

(if you're wondering how I know, I run a program that ranks in the top 15 in the country (https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/education/online-curriculum-instruction-rankings)... the methodology is neither valid nor reliable.)

Nothing in Olympia I can think of, but Georgia Tech certainly is a Flagship University.

Working with my kid's schooling didn't rub off. I forgot Olympia's the capitol, not Seattle.

More than private (almost all the Ivy League schools, Duke, Stanford, etc. are not public) is that Tulsa U. is quite small. Not much bigger than Oral Roberts or OCU.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/okuniversities.jpg

TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

I would think OCU is pretty safe given its niche in Oklahoma higher education. Not a school with massive donors, but it is visible nationally in the Performing Arts community - I suppose it could become a Conservatory for Performing Arts?

I would think OCU is pretty safe given its niche in Oklahoma higher education. Not a school with massive donors, but it is visible nationally in the Performing Arts community - I suppose it could become a Conservatory for Performing Arts?

Exactly. It's pretty well regarded in the PA, it'll be fine. You'd be surprised how many kids come from all over for the PA program.

While the endowment and enrollment are lower so is their operating expenses.

TU is a completely different school than ORU or OCU.

Endowments:
ORU $37.8 Million
OCU $95 Million
TU $1.114 Billion

ORU and OCU are the kinds of schools that may well not survive Covid.

TU is also well-known for its engineering programs, unfortunately it is just not a very large school. If it could be closer to size to Vanderbilt or TCU it would have a much larger impact as an economic driver in Tulsa

TU is also well-known for its engineering programs, unfortunately it is just not a very large school. If it could be closer to size to Vanderbilt or TCU it would have a much larger impact as an economic driver in Tulsa

TU has also taken some hits in recent years.
https://tucollegian.org/pprc-announces-sweeping-department-cuts/

TU has also taken some hits in recent years.
https://tucollegian.org/pprc-announces-sweeping-department-cuts/

TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.

TU's education program also lost accreditation, which is really bad. Basically, all their education students had to transfer. It's the only school I've ever heard of that happening too.

For education, or in general? I thought ORU lost accreditation in some programs.