Why haven't we heard more about Oklahoma's incentives package?

Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made. Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public. They often are even handled under code names.

Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.

Typically, all this is done behind closed doors and the public doesn't hear until final announcements decisions been made. Economic development deals are often called off if incentive details go public. They often are even handled under code names.

And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.

Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.

And we almost never know unless we 'win' and then the arrangement has to be approved by public bodies.

Most incentive packages are negotiated and offered without citizens ever knowing the details.

If you don't have a compliant majority of voters, the deal blows up in the face of those putting the deal together. Amazon and NYC found this out the hard way. I'm guessing the political culture of Austin calls for more openness and less surprises.

Austin is being very open with theirs. I wonder if Oklahoma and Tulsa are being quiet because it doesn't really compare? Either way, Austin schools just agreed to the property tax issue, so that is possibly the final nail in the Tesla to Tulsa coffin, unfortunately.

Travis County still has to approve it this week. I think Tesla will announce after that. My prediction is the truck factory goes to Austin and either battery and/or semi factory goes to Tulsa. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Tesla HQ eventually relocate to Austin.

I can’t figure out why we’re still speculating as if Tulsa is in the running for this. I realize Musk visited with the governor on a proposed site, but that was obviously for PR reasons. The Austin location was decided a while ago and the signs are all there: the various jurisdictions in Austin (e.g., school districts, counties, etc.) are going through the final motions of arranging the incentives because they had already been negotiated; Tesla has purchased a site and begun basic prep work; local politicians in Austin are feeling more comfortable letting out the word as they prep for the inevitable backlash from certain constituencies who oppose the move.

Tulsa simply isn’t getting the site. I think GoPokes had it right that Tulsa will be the front runner for a separate site to be announced in a few years.

Tesla has not purchased land in Austin. While Austin is likely the frontrunner, Elon and his team have and are still legitimately considering Tulsa. I have a couple reliable sources telling me Tesla officials have been working through logistics with Tulsa officials, timeliness, etc. on a daily basis. Also, things like incentive deals are kept under secrecy until an announcement has been made. Thags how major companies loke Tesla like to operate.

So Tulsa is still very much in the running. Tesla is going to wait until Travis County approves everything else then make their decision based on all the information.

My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes. Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.

My guess is that the recent McGirt Supreme Court decision probably sinks Tulsa’s hopes. Nobody has any idea how that is going to play out yet.

Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.

Why would that affect this decision, in any way? I understood that to mean that the sole thing that changed was that crimes in those areas are now federal, not state. But I might be wrong. But it should have zero affect on this.
It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.

Meh. I don't think it will go that far, but who knows.

May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched. And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since. Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't. We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.

May not, but this ruling was already a surprise to the entrenched. And all it is saying is that legal agreements should be upheld, regardless of how long ago they were made or what has happened since. Either we believe in the ideals of a nation ruled by laws or we don't. We don't make America great by ignoring its espoused principals or turning our backs on the wronged.

lets also not forget what this might mean... there is a good chance that if it is creek nation land, they might actually be able to offer even greater incentives. Several of the smaller Co-Ops around the state that are on tribal lands were able to see significant tax benefits at the federal level based upon an agreement to always employ a certain number of the tribe at any given time. There is a chance that now incentives could be offered that were never possible before and could be the thing that throws it over the to Tulsa having the better proposal.

SCOTUS decision isn't a factor from what I'm told.

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

I don't know if what you say is based on what the OU Law Prof., who is apparently an authority on these matters, was quoted as saying. He pretty much said the same thing.

It’s also been reported that the tribes have been working collectively on plans that address these issues and are working to get the framework submitted for negotiation and approval.

It appears the ruling is about jurisdictional issues. This one just happened to be about jurisdiction regarding criminal proceedings. The ruling opens the door for all kinds of jurisdictional conflicts like taxation, codes, water rights, deeds, etc. There is no telling where this goes. It seems like SCOTUS said the reservation is still in existence as it was before statehood. Ramifications are huge. So, yes it appears it can affect corporations and economic development greatly.

I will agree with you on everything other than deeds and private land ownership, which this decision will not in any way affect.

I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes. I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it. My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.

Travis County voted to give Tesla $14.7 million in tax breaks.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/14/texas-county-approves-tax-breaks-for-a-new-tesla-factory-near-austin.html

I would think Tesla to be in Tulsa would want a deal where no Oklahoma income taxes would have to be paid for a good while, since Texas does not have income taxes. I suppose a deal like that wouldn't require the state legislature to meet to approve of it. My guess Tesla would also want out of property taxes.

Texas doesn't have an income tax but does have a gross receipts tax. I haven't looked to see how this works exactly or if Travis County can give a break on this. Texas property taxes are far higher than thosevin OK so l imagine this is where the bulk of the incentives would come from.

Since OKs rate isn't as high as TX, it wouldn't have to be as large an incentive to get the same thing.

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/3144444/mg-plans-downshiftbrspan-classhl2automakers-consolidations-puts-ardmore-deal-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/3144444/mg-plans-downshiftbrspan-classhl2automakers-consolidations-puts-ardmore-deal-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

Navistar IC Tulsa?

Navistar IC Tulsa?

I was thinking along the lines of GM in OKC and Ford Glass/Zeledyne in Broken Arrow.

Speaking of tribal land, remember when MG was going to build a car factory on Chickasaw land in Ardmore? And the office/engineering jobs were going to be in OKC and Norman?

https://oklahoman.com/article/3144444/mg-plans-downshiftbrspan-classhl2automakers-consolidations-puts-ardmore-deal-on-holdspan

Oklahoma doesn't have a good history with auto plants.

Sometimes things happen for a reason. Just like how OKC is far better off investing in MAPS rather than giving huge amounts to United Airlines or Micron Technology. Looking back it might have been a good thing to have not built an auto plant in pre-mortgage bust 2007, especially a Chinese company. Just like United's maintenane plant and Micron's chip plant in Utah, that auto plant may have shut down no sooner than it opened.

Confirmed for Austin today in their ER call.

Confirmed for Austin today in their ER call.

As expected. Tulsa well-positioned for future Tesla expansion in the central U.S.

Obviously just used Tulsa for leverage, but still cool they were a part of it

For all those California haters, they will continue to grow on the west coast as well:


Tesla announces it'll be building its next Gigafactory in Texas, outside Austin. They'll build the Cybertruck at the plant. "We'll continue to grow in California," Elon Musk says. "This is a nice split between Texas and California."

https://twitter.com/MikeCollierWX/status/1286052719380385792

16274

At least Tulsa tried. All you can ask.

As I've said, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.


At the same time, I immediately thought of this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ntb3hbX6_0

This is all I can think of...(sorry... I have young kids):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVBG9tdlyRo

Just say thank you very much to the Tulsa team, the economic development team and the governor," Musk said. "I was super impressed, the whole team was super impressed, and we'll for sure strongly consider Tulsa for future expansions ... down the road."


Well at least he gave a shoutout.

From everything i heard...Tulsa went from a complete after thought to legitimately being considered. Obviously we were used for leverage but that wasn’t their only reason for putting Tulsa in the mix, it was a legit contender from what my contacts have said. Just sounds like we were too late to the game and had way too much ground to make up but it was a good shot nonetheless.

On a positive note, it sounds like Tulsa, OKC, and the state in general got some great publicity out of it. I can’t remember if it was Pete or someone else who posted it but I thought I remembered hearing/seeing that inquires to relocate or open offices in OK shot up over the last few months with Tesla’s interest thought to be one of the primary drivers. Nothing but good can come out of that. Maybe Tesla will end you throwing us a bone down the road.

I think another key positive in all of this is that it substantiates the reach of the "Texas Triangle". It probably is still 10-20 years away, but at some point, the huge Dallas gains are going to push up into OKC in a big way, the same way that Southern CA pushes out to Phoenix and Las Vegas. If Tulsa and OKC can find enough diverse strengths and the strengthen the connection, it would be big for OK. That was the biggest reason I wanted Tulsa to land the factor. A Tesla factory in Tulsa and Paycom in OKC goes a long way to show that Oklahoma can be more than just the O&G sector.

It was Mike Tyson vs. a featherweight. Austin is a powerhouse, and Tulsa never truly stood a chance. Bully on them for trying, but they were never truly in the race.

Getting mentioned constantly in the news with the hottest name in Silicon Valley is nothing but good. Worse case scenario is nothing changes obviously. But this in no way hurts the area.

The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.

Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is. And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.


Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.

Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.

The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.

Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is. And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.


Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.

Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.

+1000

The entire reason that Austin is booming and considered a hotspot for young people and highly-paid jobs is because of its immediate proximity to a great university.

Same exact reason Silicon Valley evolved where it is. And same thing for the Tech Triangle in North Carolina, Amazon in Seattle, etc.


Until Oklahoma makes legitimate investment in education, we are going to continue to finish behind these other job magnets and get call and distribution centers instead of headquarters and sophisticated manufacturing.

Tinker, fortunately, has been a great asset and just about the lone exception in the state.

Agree, with adequate funding OU has the potential to be more of an major economic driver for the OKC metro (and entire state). Building up the research park in Norman and continuing to build up OU Medical Center are critical. And in Tulsa building up the respective OU and OSU campuses should be a higher priority, along with building up OSUHSC and Medical Center in downtown Tulsa. The concentration of public higher education dollars should be in Norman, OKC, Stillwater and Tulsa/

Agree, with adequate funding OU has the potential to be more of an major economic driver for the OKC metro (and entire state). Building up the research park in Norman and continuing to build up OU Medical Center are critical. And in Tulsa building up the respective OU and OSU campuses should be a higher priority, along with building up OSUHSC and Medical Center in downtown Tulsa. The concentration of public higher education dollars should be in Norman, OKC, Stillwater and Tulsa/

Agree 100% with this concept...

The greatest challenge will be to replace the Agriculture tech mentally that has dominated Oklahoma for decades. The technology has been there for years; problem with Oklahoma is transformation of that IT into the 21st Century cyber world where your results and outcomes are aligned with the latest cyber adaptations.

'The Oklahomans (OPUBCO)' purchase of the last color printing presses that were outdated on the date of installation is an example. Now the Tulsa World prints OKC's daily newspaper.

We are having some serious concerns at the OUHSC complex with cyber upgrades; we can't function with yesterday's technology in today's cyber environment. There needs to be a serious audit at the OUHSC with anything involving future equipment purchases. Let's not allow Oklahoma to be 'suckered' into purchasing equipment that presents a coordination challenge with the rest of upgraded Health Science Center networks throughout the country.

Tulsa was very seriously considered, they got to the race on Thursday when the start was Tuesday. This was communicated to them all along, and I tried (hopefully well) to make that clear here. Which is why you never heard about what Tulsa offered incentive wise. I was told by friends that Stitt told Musk, let us know you’re coming to Tulsa and whatever Austin offers we’ll double it. It’s just details. There’s no reason to go there yet though, we need to sell you in Tulsa first.

There were a lot of very real signs that Musk took it seriously. If he just used Tulsa as leverage, there’s no reason to come visit and sit down. The threat of considering another town would be enough. And yes they will eventually wind down California, shift the production line to Nevada and move the HQ to Austin. Austin is where Musk wants to live. That’s ultimately why Austin won. Tulsa will be the frontrunner for the next battery factory or production plant.

Also fun fact, the internal survey of Tesla employees they cities schools as a reason they’d be open to moving Oklahoma. (Owasso, broken arrow, Jenks, union, and ex-urban) So the narrative that Oklahoma is terrible at everything is exaggerated, plenty of worse places.

Also fun fact, the internal survey of Tesla employees they cities schools as a reason they’d be open to moving Oklahoma. (Owasso, broken arrow, Jenks, union, and ex-urban).

Source?

Like the public schools in the Tulsa area are better than those in Austin?


And the comments were not about the suburban, independent school districts.

It was about the complete absence of a top-tier university in this state; the very thing all these great job centers are built around.


Empirically, Oklahoma ranks very near the bottom in virtually every education metric.

Hopefully Oklahoma City get jobs from Tesla over Tulsa.

Sounds like they will also be building the Semi in Austin.

They figure the sales from the Semi will be very low, so might as well produce all trucks in the same location.

nvm

Source?

Like the public schools in the Tulsa area are better than those in Austin?


And the comments were not about the suburban, independent school districts.

It was about the complete absence of a top-tier university in this state; the very thing all these great job centers are built around.


Empirically, Oklahoma ranks very near the bottom in virtually every education metric.

No no. Mis-phrased on my part.

Tesla ran an internal poll in California to gauge what their employees thought of Tulsa and Austin. Austin scores better in every metric, but Tulsa far exceeded internal expectations, including schools. This slowed the process down even more.

Agreed on universities. It was made clear to Stitt and Tulsa leaders we must improve in higher ed. But for public k-12 schools it became eh they suck everywhere with good in suburban and ex-urb. (Claremore, glenpool etc)

Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.

Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.

Curious why does it matter that the med school is in OKC, the campuses are only 20 miles apart.

I know AAU was always one of Boren’s goals, maybe Harroz can lead the charge but can only do so much without adequate state funding to supplement private donors.

Agreed on universities. It was made clear to Stitt and Tulsa leaders we must improve in higher ed. But for public k-12 schools it became eh they suck everywhere with good in suburban and ex-urb. (Claremore, glenpool etc)

Ou needs to find a way to become an AAU university. They would be if not for the medical school being in OKC. But perception is reality and AAU matters.

Perception is self-fulfilling. Sorry, I try not to add education talk in these threads, but the ways people talk about "good" (suburban) and "bad" (urban) schools is so problematic. Schools grades are largely just representations of parental income and they include almost nothing related to educational quality. These ratings get spouted about like gospel and they've led to re-segregation of American schools and continued White flight and anti-Black and Brown racism. There's a ton of literature on all this. Here's a good podcast if you'd like to learn more: https://haveyouheardblog.com/the-mismeasure-of-schools-data-real-estate-and-segregation/

The quality of K-12 education has nothing to do with corporations moving to a location. It has to do with incentives, cost of living, and location. People will move for jobs, thats a given.

The quality of K-12 education has nothing to do with corporations moving to a location. It has to do with incentives, cost of living, and location. People will move for jobs, thats a given.

I would add that there isn't a huge difference between cities in terms of upper-middle-class independent school districts anyway.

Curious why does it matter that the med school is in OKC, the campuses are only 20 miles apart.

I know AAU was always one of Boren’s goals, maybe Harroz can lead the charge but can only do so much without adequate state funding to supplement private donors.

Medical schools MUST be on flagship campus to be considered for AAU. Period. I think Nebraska got kicked out of AAU for building a new one off campus or something similar.

I don’t think that’s the case. Nebraska’s was off their campus when they were invited, no? I’ll have to look it up to confirm.

Medical schools MUST be on flagship campus to be considered for AAU. Period. I think Nebraska got kicked out of AAU for building a new one off campus or something similar.

KU is AAU, main campus is in Lawrence, KUMC is in KCK.

I don’t think that’s the case. Nebraska’s was off their campus when they were invited, no? I’ll have to look it up to confirm.

It’s why Nebraska got kicked out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

It’s why Nebraska got kicked out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities
A separate medical campus was apparently part of it, but several articles also cite that research funding from the USDA wasn’t counted. But as Swake said, Kansas and Missouri don’t have on-campus medical schools and they’re both AAU.

It’s why Nebraska got kicked out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_Universities

Colorado - Main Campus in Boulder, medical school in Aurora
Northwestern - Main campus in Evanston, medical school in Chicago
Penn State - Main campus in State College, medical school in Hershey
Indiana - Main campus in Bloomington, medical school in Indianapolis

Colorado - Main Campus in Boulder, medical school in Aurora
Northwestern - Main campus in Evanston, medical school in Chicago
Penn State - Main campus in State College, medical school in Hershey
Indiana - Main campus in Bloomington, medical school in Indianapolis

Exactly, that obviously doesn’t matter. I believe OU’s exclusion is tied to research funding. Former President Gallogly mentioned increasing research funding as a way for OU to get invited to join the AAU.


“We need to double the amount of research that we’re doing today,” Gallogly said in a press conference Aug. 16. “That’s incredibly important because at this point in time, that’s about the only thing that keeps us from being an AAU-type institution.”

Gallogly said this initiative is part of his strategy to promote the graduate student experience at OU and better serve faculty members who conduct research. However, OU falls well behind the pack of AAU schools when it comes to funding for research.

According to the AAU website, the University of Kansas, Iowa State and University of Texas at Austin are the only schools in the Big 12 Conference in the AAU.

http://www.oudaily.com/news/ou-president-james-gallogly-aims-to-double-amount-of-research-revitalize-graduate-programs/article_7a352d7e-a948-11e8-a298-1f098c7336d6.html