Out of curiosity, what makes Tulsa more appealing than the OKC metro for Musk? It will be great for the state if Tulsa gets this, but I'd prefer it to go in OKC :)

Tulsa has a larger manufacturing sector, and between TCC, Tulsa Tech and TWS there is a very skilled workforce in NE Oklahoma. A lot of it goes back to the oil capitol days when rigs, pipe and other industry components were built in Tulsa. Also the aerospace industry is obviously one of the bigger sectors and in addition to AA there is Spirit, Lufthansa Technik, NORDAM, Triumph and many others.

Not to mention plenty of engineers and mechanics who could lose their jobs. AA hasn’t had any layoffs at the Mx base yet (that we know of) but who knows as the airline industry is ravaged. Per this article AA is still moving forward with a $550M investment in the base. https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-american-airlines-doesnt-waver-in-its-tulsa-plans/article_6c79d255-53fc-59b9-8b46-1a06ff193af0.html

Maintenance is about the only workgroup not being negatively affected by COVID related reductions. Even in storage, airplanes require maintenance and upkeep. All of our (United) airplanes in active storage in Denver (i.e. parked but not inactive) are being completely powered up and engine runs performed every 3-5 days. They aren't being taxied around, so it also requires periodical lifting of the airplane to rotate the tires so they don't form dead spots from sitting stationary too long. Calendar-based maintenance and checks are still being performed as if the airplane is in active service. (i.e. "every 200 flight hours or 30 calendar days, whichever comes first" - type stuff) The goal is to keep a large percentage of the fleet ready to deploy should demand rebound quicker than expected. I haven't heard of any layoffs in TUL at AA, but I am not as familiar with them

I believe the mechanics are the only workgroup allowed overtime at the moment. I imagine AA's base is similarly active.

According to this it's already decided it's Austin: https://electrek.co/2020/05/15/tesla-factory-austin-texas/

-The port gives access to the Mississippi therefore the upper Midwest. Also the east coast via the Gulf.
-Tulsa has a unique culture. It’s this mix of old f you money, a great under-appreciated music scene, architecture, arts, and has a real sense of community fabric.
-Gathering place.
-Scenic

I don’t think it’s OKC vs Tulsa.

It’s more likely Musk thought well obviously Austin is in the mix where else, and Tulsa came up.

I honestly think the bus plant has something to do with this. About 2 weeks ago it came out that the City of Tulsa and Navistar were at an impasse; CoT said Navistar was not holding up its end of the bargain maintaining the facility they lease from the city for $1/year - Navistar saying CoT is being unreasonable with their demands.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/city-of-tulsa-addresses-false-claims-of-eviction-by-company-over-bus-plant

All of sudden Tesla just announces out of the blue that Tulsa is a finalist for the plant “after visiting 2 sites” in Tulsa. This is just purely speculation but the fact that Tesla could move into an existing auto manufacturing facility basically right away in the center of the country next to a rail line, runways and highways (no new infrastructure needed) and within 5 miles of a river port in a metropolitan area of 1M people with a highly skilled manufacturing workforce and potentially getting 1 million square feet of factory for $1/year likely piqued their interest...

I honestly think the bus plant has something to do with this. About 2 weeks ago it came out that the City of Tulsa and Navistar were at an impasse; CoT said Navistar was not holding up its end of the bargain maintaining the facility they lease from the city for $1/year - Navistar saying CoT is being unreasonable with their demands.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/city-of-tulsa-addresses-false-claims-of-eviction-by-company-over-bus-plant

All of sudden Tesla just announces out of the blue that Tulsa is a finalist for the plant “after visiting 2 sites” in Tulsa. This is just purely speculation but the fact that Tesla could move into an existing auto manufacturing facility basically right away in the center of the country next to a rail line, runways and highways (no new infrastructure needed) and within 5 miles of a river port in a metropolitan area of 1M people with a highly skilled manufacturing workforce and potentially getting 1 million square feet of factory for $1/year likely piqued their interest...

Interesting speculation but the Tesla plant in Fremont, CA is 5.3 million square feet.

Interesting speculation but the Tesla plant in Fremont, CA is 5.3 million square feet.

The entire city-owned facility (the former Air Force Plant #3) is 3.8 million square feet; Spirit Aerosystems is the other tenant. The entire site covers 642 acres nearly double the size of the Tesla factory site in Fremont.

I think Tesla wants to build their own plant is my guess.

How would it help the city to replace those manufacturing jobs with Tesla jobs? Surely the goal is to retain the bus jobs and find a new space for Tesla.

Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.

How would it help the city to replace those manufacturing jobs with Tesla jobs? Surely the goal is to retain the bus jobs and find a new space for Tesla.

The status symbol of having Tesla would be a net benefit, but yeah

The status symbol of having Tesla would be a net benefit, but yeah

Agree but if it’s Navistar buses vs Tesla electric trucks I think you know which one the city would want more. The Navistar plant does have 1600 employees so one of the larger manufacturing employers in Tulsa that not many really know about. Odds are if you’ve been in a school bus in the past 20 years it was built in Tulsa.

Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.

The dude is about to launch people into space from the US for the first time in over a decade and is working on missions to Mars. End of the year seems pretty implausible but it certainly wouldn’t be the most ambitious goal he’s shooting for haha.

In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.

In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.

This is not correct. Negotiations are ongoing.

This is not correct. Negotiations are ongoing.

Ummm... an account named "Tulsan" is less than 6 months old and makes their first post ever hoping to convince users that Tulsa has a shot for landing the Tesla factory.

Elon, is this you? If so please pay off my student loans!!

This is not correct. Negotiations are ongoing.

That's great, if true. I'm just saying in my experience, the public reaction of the mayor and the governor indicate negotiations are either not in an advanced stage or they aren't serious.

Obviously, I hope I'm wrong on this.

In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.

I agree. I wanted to believe that we had a chance, but all the rumors point to them having already decided on a piece of land just outside of Hutto, TX (far north end of the Austin metro).

The fact that Tulsa has been included in discussions is a nice ego boost for us though, and hopefully it shows that we have elevated our status enough to be considered for other major businesses looking for new locations as well. Maybe down the road even Tesla will come knocking again for some kind of facility. Apparently they did get shown around to a couple of sites, so they were interested enough to come out and look.

You can be sure by the time anything hits the media, these big deals have long been in progress with local municipalities and states because huge determining factors are public incentives, infrastructure improvements and real estate deals.

I've been following this sort of thing for decades and in all incidences, sites have been placed under contract and deals with the government are 99% done. Then, they use the threat of going elsewhere as a bargaining chip to get what they want where they've already decided they want to be.

For example, this proposed OKC Costo operations center has been in the works for at least a year and they have been negotiating with a specific property owner since the beginning. And when they had already placed the Western/Memorial site under contract, they were telling the city they would go to Edmond if they didn't get specific incentives. Amazon does this better than anyone.


I have no insight into this Tesla project, but you can almost guarantee the big decisions have been made and now they are merely playing cities and states against each other in order to get the best possible deal.

In my experience working with companies similar to Tesla and knowing how we announced expansions to new cities, the site was already decided well in advance before anything--even speculation-- got to the media and negotiations were already well under way with the chosen city's leadership, who were required to stay very tight lipped. Based on how Stitt and Mayor Bynum are reacting to the speculation Tulsa is on the list, this leads me to believe there are no ongoing negotiations and Tulsa is likely out of the running at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if Austin was chosen weeks ago and negotiations are well under way, but Tulsa was reported because it became known that it was at one time under consideration/Telsa was conducting due diligence.

In your experience, do you ever find out why a city in the running was not selected?

In your experience, do you ever find out why a city in the running was not selected?

We would never release anything publicly about why a city wasn’t chosen, but we would call the mayor and let them know at a high level. We would only get into certain specifics if they asked, but for the most part we kept our reasoning to ourselves.

In one example, we were choosing Dallas over Ft. Worth. The decision had been made long before we informed them, but as Pete alluded to, we needed to do a few more negotiations and discussions with Dallas city leaders. Once that was completed, we called Ft. Worth and just explained that we chose Dallas but would love to work with them in the future on something—and that’s it. A couple of the reasons, among many, which we didn’t tell them, was a more educated populous (and thus access to resources we wanted) and Dallas would make a bigger “splash” for the brand. Dallas’s city leaders/governance infrastructure was almost more mature and had been through the types of things we were going to be doing, so we anticipated fewer barriers working with them to get things like permits.

A few years ago, OKC was a finalist for a Macy's distribution center but they had already pretty much decided on Owasso simply due to better public incentives.

I know Tulsa just submitted their final package to Tesla last night so I guess we will know relatively soon.

Tesla has mentioned they want cars rolling off the line by end of the year. I have no idea how that is possible.

I was reading about Space X's "Starlink" last night and they are cranking out six satellites PER DAY. And launching them 60 at a time.

The man knows how to get things done.

Found this by a poster on the Tulsa Now forum:

https://www.austinsaysno.com/

Found this by a poster on the Tulsa Now forum:

https://www.austinsaysno.com/

"“Austin Does SUCK! On Man! Where do I start??!!! I have been here going on 8 years and I have SEEN so many changes. Very pretentious!!! Like a little LA (it has been dubbed.) I am middle aged and this is not for people in my age group. Plus, almost ALL of the Iconic Austin Haunts (that made Austin...Austin) are going away.”

— Kimberly, 10/27/2019

The lack of self awareness by Kimberly here is *chefs kiss*

"“Austin Does SUCK! On Man! Where do I start??!!! I have been here going on 8 years and I have SEEN so many changes. Very pretentious!!! Like a little LA (it has been dubbed.) I am middle aged and this is not for people in my age group. Plus, almost ALL of the Iconic Austin Haunts (that made Austin...Austin) are going away.”

— Kimberly, 10/27/2019

The lack of self awareness by Kimberly here is *chefs kiss*

I think more Kimberlys need to speak up. They have a very valuable POV and it must be heard loud and clear.

So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?

So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?

And they painted the face as well.

So apparently they painted the tesla logo on the Tulsa Driller. A bit ironic, eh?

this is so embarrassing

SpaceX has a facility outside McGregor, TX which is about an hour from Austin. Not sure if that plays any role but likely doesn’t hurt that they already have a presence in Texas. Honestly with Tulsa’s aerospace workforce SpaceX would probably be a better future fit if Tesla indeed sets up shop outside Austin.

this is so embarrassing

The whole situation is embarrassing. I get that both Cities need to diversify economically, but groveling at the feet of folks like Elon Musk just feels disgusting.

Reminds me of the Amazon HQ2 sweepstakes when it all likelihood they had already chosen NYC and Arlington (now just Arlington). Some think this type of recruitment with limited public funds within the same country should end and be replaced more with a national strategy instead of state vs state

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/amazons-hq2-spectacle-should-be-illegal/575539/

Reminds me of the Amazon HQ2 sweepstakes when it all likelihood they had already chosen NYC and Arlington (now just Arlington). Some think this type of recruitment with limited public funds within the same country should end and be replaced more with a national strategy instead of state vs state

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/amazons-hq2-spectacle-should-be-illegal/575539/

Or city by city, which happens just as often.

It allows businesses to hold cities and states hostage. It's pretty messed up and results in trillions in tax dollars being spent to subsidize private industry.

The whole situation is embarrassing. I get that both Cities need to diversify economically, but groveling at the feet of folks like Elon Musk just feels disgusting.

I hope Tulsans have some signs that read, "Come to Tulsa! We think X Æ A-12 is a great name!" lol

ICYMI: X Æ A-12 is the name of Elon's son, but I don't think it was allowed (https://www.cnet.com/news/how-elon-musk-pronounces-x-ae-a-12-his-new-sons-name/).

I kinda like it

I will give this to Tulsan's, there is nothing they think they can't do. Islands in the river. No prob. Olympics. Sure. Amazon HQ2. Why not.

Honestly, I hope for it, I just don't think a company run by this guy is coming to Oklahoma. Perceptions are what they are. the best chance OK has of getting a major national player, is probably already here (a smaller growing company).

The above post may seem harsh. Didn't mean it to be. I think Tulsa is a wonderful place to live and raise a family, and has a ton going for it. I just kind of get a kick out of how "proud" (I guess that's a good description) some people are of it. It's an interesting dynamic. You just don't hear the same moon shot type ideas from our friends down the pike. Again, neither stance is good or bad in my opinion, just an interesting observation. I sure as heck don't want to start an OKC vs Tulsa thread.

^^^ I salute tulsa for that. Tulsa packs it punch against other cities it’s tier. The same can’t be said for OKC even though OKC is clearly the most dominant and sought after metro in the state. The two cities should be closer and the two mayors have agreed on that from what I’ve seen.

I hope, Enid, Elk City, Stillwater, Lawton,, and Ardmore play a bigger picture in growth soon.

In some article I read, it said that Tesla had notified Nashville that it was no longer consideration. So nice to know that Tesla thinks Oklahoma would be a better for them than Tennessee.

There’s literally no downside for okc if Tesla goes to Tulsa.

^^^Actually there should be upside

There’s literally no downside for okc if Tesla goes to Tulsa.

How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...

How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...

You can almost be guaranteed that Tesla will get tons of public incentives that would result in them not paying property tax.

You can almost be guaranteed that Tesla will get tons of public incentives that would result in them not paying property tax.

And I am sure the city of Tulsa will work with the state to benefit greater than the rest of the state for having Tesla there.

How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...

How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?

How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?

I was merely adding how Tulsa could get ahead of OKC through this.

I was merely adding how Tulsa could get ahead of OKC through this.

Telsa will be a great addition to Tulsa and the State. It's not going to put Tulsa ahead of OKC. Tulsa's population could use the extras boost; right now OKC is the center of the state's growth. OKC has 400,000 more in the metro and 250,000 more people in the urban area.

As to its impact on OKC, I just don't see what you're seeing other than we've lured something big to our area. Hope you get Telsa, because it's no fund being a bridesmaid who lost her virginity to Telsa and didn't get anything for it.

If a city is going to be a whore, at least get paid for being laid. :D

How would Tulsa’s schools getting more money from a new revenue source have any effect whatsoever on OKC’s schools?

It's actually the inverse, if Tulsa Schools got more money from property taxes from Tesla, due to state funding balancing it would lower the amount going to Tulsa schools from the state and freeing state allocated money for other districts.

How do schools get their funding? Isn't it somewhat based off where property tax dollars go? If so, the Tulsa schools will get a huge boon from this, hurting OKC schools even more. There is one. OKC has no projects or prospects like this in the pike to help balance out something like this...

It used to work that way. Can't remember when it changed. But now the state has a "forumula" per student. So all school funding goes to the state, and then is distributed to the districts based on ADA (average daily attendance). Economic development helps all schools. Obviously economic development helps other things too, and more localized.

It used to work that way. Can't remember when it changed. But now the state has a "forumula" per student. So all school funding goes to the state, and then is distributed to the districts based on ADA (average daily attendance). Economic development helps all schools. Obviously economic development helps other things too, and more localized.

No, wrong.

Property taxes are held in the district. The state formula is only used for state funding that goes on top of property taxes. Not all districts even get state funding if they have enough property taxes.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/columnists/an-oklahoma-school-district-gets-30-922-45-per-student-wayne-greene-does-the-math/article_a820323e-d1a0-51dd-9e24-3f3b346bd83e.html

Everyone realizes a city being better than another city is 1000% subjective right?

Like based on sports alone OKC >>>> Tulsa.

It’s purely subjective and based on what matters to you.

Everyone realizes a city being better than another city is 1000% subjective right?

Like based on sports alone OKC >>>> Tulsa.

It’s purely subjective and based on what matters to you.

Exactly. There are many different metrics one could compare. Tulsa is better than OKC in a lot of ways, and OKC is better than Tulsa in a lot of ways. It's silly to be in a pissing match all the time. A rising tide lifts all boats. Tulsa growth won't stunt OKC's growth. Imagine if Oklahoma had two OKCs instead of one.

I don't see how Tulsa getting a Tesla factory could be bad for OKC. If they don't get it then it will go to Austin (most likely to happen). If they do get Oklahoma is known for a Tesla Factory as well as The Thunder, Bombings, and Football. Why does it matter to OKC if Tulsa prospers we should be happy for them. Hell it would be great if Tesla sponsored the Thunder and MLS Team moved to Tulsa and was sponsored by Tesla. It's more money for the state and more jobs.

Tesla builds in OKC or Tulsa, Tesla sponsors Thunder for the electric/lightning theme. The oil and gas industry here rebranded as being "energy" for the last decade. So why not?

Oil, Gas, Wind, Electric.

The energy capital of the country. Oklahoma.

No, wrong.

Property taxes are held in the district. The state formula is only used for state funding that goes on top of property taxes. Not all districts even get state funding if they have enough property taxes.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/columnists/an-oklahoma-school-district-gets-30-922-45-per-student-wayne-greene-does-the-math/article_a820323e-d1a0-51dd-9e24-3f3b346bd83e.html

My mistake, you are correct. But even in Tulsa county, these funds only amount to about 25% of the district's budget. The state will use funds to "equalize" the districts. 37% of TPS budget came from the state. If property taxes went up, the state would just cut it's funding amounts to the district (assuming all other factors were held constant...which is never reality).

Now, I grew up near Frontier School District, in which the Sooner Power Plant was located. They are a tiny school, one of the last to still have dirt floors (allegedly) and then went to first class facilities almost overnight, entirely due to that plant. Things changed in the 90s. That plant is still there, but I presume that the district/county/whatever must send "excess" funds to the state, because their budget was cut dramatically upon passage of HB 1005. Is that how this works? Districts with excess budgets essentially send their tax dollars to other districts?

Things changed in the 90s. That plant is still there, but I presume that the district/county/whatever must send "excess" funds to the state, because their budget was cut dramatically upon passage of HB 1005. Is that how this works? Districts with excess budgets essentially send their tax dollars to other districts?

Read the article, no, that's not how it works.

Tesla’s Terafactory location now appears with a Texas address in the company’s in-car navigation, fueling deeper speculation that the future location for its next US manufacturing plant will be near the city of Austin.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-terafactory-texas-gps-navigation/

Read the article, no, that's not how it works.

I read the editorial you linked to. I understand it to say only 14,000 students in the state of Oklahoma were outside of the equalization model in 2019? I don't see how a Tesla plant in Tulsa will disrupt the statewide student funding formula in any way.

Tulsa IMO has a very good chance of securing the Telsa Plant.

If Telsa were going to Texas, you bet they would have already selected Austin. Texas isn't going to give any more incentives to lure Telsa and they know it. They are playing this game to see what they can get from Oklahoma. They know Oklahoma's track record on tax incentives thru the old Oklahoma City GM plant debacle.

If we were to get this plant; it will be great for all of Oklahoma particularly the Tulsa, Muskogee and Bartlesville (Northeast Quadrant) would reap the benefits of employment and support from this huge mega plant.


https://www.joc.com/sites/default/files/field_feature_image/catoosa.jpg

Let's not forget; Tulsa is on a barge canal transportation system Ports of Catoosa/Muskogee, an extra alternative that Austin doesn't have.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cviDZB_0--E/hqdefault.jpg

https://twitter.com/i/topics/news/e1954211587?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email


Telsa in Tulsa has a nice ring to it.