Getting very close to being finished:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/commonplace032820a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/commonplace032820b.jpg


https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5d3b817f3f74500001722032/1564769077645-RW1YZRWE7AUUAE8AZO6D/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kKNxiT-ZUbG07ZB61a4iwNcUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJo qy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2dmiP9aQqRkYhbsFYcKXeToi MsL_P-h3_hYeOnLn3aNEq3WUfc_ZsVm9Mi1E6FasEnQ/Common+Market+View+2_final.jpg?format=1500w

https://www.marketatcommonplace.com/

Hard to tell from the pics...how large is this?

about the size of Gogi next door since they split the previously larger space in half, right?

Sincerely Coffee Roasters is doing a pop-up coffee shop in this space this summer.

Opens today.

Not sure what this means for the opening of the market, but that seems to be delayed indefinitely.

I believe the coffee shop pop up is in the Kitchen space, not here.

I believe the coffee shop pop up is in the Kitchen space, not here.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

The Market space is still empty.

https://twitter.com/winerev/status/1289986800367226880

August 10th

https://twitter.com/midtown_okc/status/1296562406907404288

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/market082520b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/market082520a.jpg

I think this has the ability to be more successful than Native Roots. Especially if they carry regular items and aren't super expensive.

Soooo... NOT successful.

I went in on Sunday to get a loaf of bread and... there was none.

Because, it had been retooled to only carry wine/cheese type of stuff. I asked and they said they were in the process of transitioning away from being grocery...

I wish they'd put an Urban Target downtown. I know I'm dreaming.

Definitely too bad that the grocery side of things doesn't seem to have worked out. But on the plus side, their wine selection is very solid and I'm sure will only continue to get better as it expands.

There just isn't enough of a market for a downtown grocery store.

Native Roots was highly subsidized by the landlord and I suspect this place is too... And they still couldn't make it work on a small scale.


A CVS or Walgreens would be a good intermediate step but CVS was serious about the Century Center but pulled out due to the lack of population in a 1- and 3-mile radius.

The saga of the downtown grocery store continues. I agree that the demand is just not there, but I don't know how to generate it. The secret has to be some combination of a convenient, reasonably-priced grocery store for staples combined with something that makes it special or a destination. The destination part is the key, because in OKC, 99% of even Downtown residents own a car. So if you aren't a destination, why would you walk or bike to Market at Commonplace when you could just drive to Homeland, or for that matter, Walmart or Target? Native Roots gave it a shot with the soups and sandwiches at their deli but it still didn't work. I gave them several months of loyal shopping but the frequent changes to their selection and just general quality were big problems. Market at Commonplace tried a different tack with fancy cheeses and wine but that clearly wasn't enough, either, at least not in its current form.

So the cycle continues - operators and landlords give it a good-faith effort but it's not enough. And then people say Downtown/Midtown aren't full service neighborhoods because they are missing these kind of services. I think we will eventually hit a tipping point where the demand for a downtown grocer will be there, but I would argue that it will not be solely because of rooftops, but instead will be because of a more holistic reimagining of what an urban neighborhood is (at least in Oklahoma), which means.... transit options! Healthy street life! Etc, etc.

^

And the most important thing about people living in or near downtown is they are in their cars pretty much every day anyway for work or meetings or errands.

So it's easier just to stop at a store while you are out then walk half a mile (or more) and having to haul back all your purchases.

If you live in SoSA (as I did for a year) you have to really want to walk to go to most anywhere downtown. And I did walk a ton because I really like doing it, but my neighbors would still get in their car to go to the heart of the CBD, let alone Deep Deuce, Bricktown, etc. And I ended up using my car far more than I wanted to, just out of necessity.


It's probably time to release the fantasy there is going to be a busy grocery store downtown any time soon. We'll continue to see one or two pop up as amenities in big complexes (like the Edge or Level) but the margins are already incredibly low in that business and there is a buttload of competition all over town.

We are a very, very long way from even a good percentage of people living downtown that aren't in their car on a frequent basis, and until that changes those people will just stop at one of the multitude of stores only minutes away.

I know Pete posted a thread on this future development, The NOVA project, but since we're on the topic of downtown grocery options thought I'd mention it again.
https://youtu.be/Ug0FFpt0O9o

Also, Homeland renovating had to play a role in this a bit too, don't y'all think? It's actually a pleasant store to stop into, even if prices can be high for some items... Most everyone that can access the Market can make it the few extra blocks to Homeland via their cars or bikes.

Yes probably but the renovation was done a couple years ago at this point, why try to open a market so close now?

Downtown can [barely] support a liquor store. I think the only one left is whatever is underneath Aviare (or whatever name they're on) in the Arts District.

Definitely not advocating for them to move, and I assume they're quite happy where they are, but an Urban Agrarian-like store Downtown is an interesting thought experiment. They do have at least some of the stuff you really need but their bread and butter are products that you generally can't get anywhere else, so the risk of losing business to Homeland and the other players would be reduced. Plus I know they've invested a lot and put a lot of thought into delivery and other service add-ons. Maybe in the right space in Downtown something like that could work.

George’s on western and main seems to be doing well. Good marketing a great product selection seem to be working well for them.

Welp, it appears that switching to wine-only wasn't enough to save the market. Announced they were closing over the weekend and sold off their inventory at 40% off. Too bad...

Welp, it appears that switching to wine-only wasn't enough to save the market. Announced they were closing over the weekend and sold off their inventory at 40% off. Too bad...

Holy cow.

There was a big investment made in that space.

From their Instagram page, posted yesterday early afternoon:


It is with a heavy heart that we have decided to close the Market. This was an undoubtedly challenging year for small businesses like ours, but we are forever grateful for the opportunity to curate our selection of authentic wines, artisanal cheeses and more for you.

We are so proud of the efforts of our dedicated team and the relationships we have created this last year. We could not have done it without your continued, enthusiastic support.

We hope you stop by today and bid your farewells. We’ll be enjoying refreshments while you shop at 40% off EVERYTHING!

Total bummer

I keep saying our downtown area is nowhere near ready for a grocer. The only way they have survived at all is through heavy subsidies.

If Braum's wasn't so close on Classen, that would be our best bet.

As it is, landing CVS or Walgreens would be a big step forward but the demographics can't justify a drugstore.


It's really a non-issue anyway; there are plenty of good stores nearby and a ton of ways to have groceries delivered.

perhaps this is a naive thought, but if downtown queues up enough "eventual" housing to support a grocery store (projects having gone through real steps and actually likely to happen), isn't this where TIF money would actually be a perfect fit?

You'd end up with something that:
1. doesn't need to be immediately profitable
2. serves a purpose for current residents - even if they don't utilize it very well in the short term
3. might encourage additional development with the idea that there is a draw to living very close to a grocery store

Not saying we are even to that point yet... but the city's done its share of "build it and they will come" projects downtown and I feel this would be at least as worthy as the rest

^

Just so you know, Native Roots was heavily subsidized by their landlord and they still couldn't make it. I suspect the same was true with Commonplace.


When we talk about downtown population, it is still scattered over a very wide area. Not many people are going to walk a quarter-mile or more each way and lug their purchases back in all types of weather when they are in their cars every day anyway and can easily stop at a multitude of places.

We probably need to just give up on this idea; it's likely not going to happen at least on a sustainable basis and it's not really that big of a deal.

DT OKC is not an urban space by any measure. OKC is way too spread out, disjointed. Cities (Milwaukee,Louisville,Raleigh, Richmond)of similar population have DT CVS stores, grocers etc because they did not destroy all its building via a doomed plan and because their city size is normal not 600 + sq miles. Don't see OKC reaching density that brings about walking to and fro, significant use of mass transit etc. I have little hope that many of the significant proposed DT area projects will be built outside MAPS 4 maybe.

^

Mr. Sunshine.

There will be plenty more projects built downtown in the coming years but my opinion is the need for a grocery store -- regardless of the density -- is an old idea that has passed.

I talked to the manager and it seemed they might be transitioning to a wine bar, with bottles and cheese to go, that would have been a nice addition to midtown.

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetCaseInformation.aspx?db=oklahoma&number=CJ-2021-3622&cmid=4005281

Looks like the owners of this place are $26,000 late on rent....