The article she linked says exactly that, per OKCPD.Okay and that makes it even funnier.

Do you know that the person who sat at the table prior to you wasn’t infected? Do you know how the table was cleaned between guests? How many surfaces did you touch? Is each surface being sanitized between each contact? Did you open the door with your hands? Was it cleaned with sanitizer before you touched it and between each guest. COVID-19 can live on stainless steel for 4-6 days. Curbside pickup or drive through are far safer, but not completely safe. Luckily, heat and stomach acid seem to destroy the virus so prepared hot food shouldn’t contain the virus, but the packaging could. Cardboard seems to be a worse surface on which virus can thrive, by quite a bit over stainless steel and plastic, interestingly.
From what I’ve read, all an infected person has to do to infect someone is merely breath and the virus is airborne infecting those up to 5+ feet away. It also can linger in the air for hours and live on surfaces for days. With proper cleaning of tables I fail to see how allowing dine in would be any worse then what we are currently doing.

^

betts is an MD; her husband too.

I think she knows what she is talking about.

There are surely avenues of infection open, but the idea, as I understand it is to limit those avenues. Sure, some people will still probably get it from carryout or a grocery store or whatever, but it will be less people infected than if people were getting infected by those avenues and also by crowding around in a dining area or bar or movie theatre, etc.

Less people infected means less avenues of infection while means less people infected, etc. This is my understanding, but I'm not an epidemiologist or other health professional.

EDIT: Well apparently betts doesn't need my layman help.

^

betts is an MD; her husband too.

I think she knows what she is talking about.Okay so I’ll just forget all of the articles I’ve read published by doctors too about a virus we know little about.

But by all means she is welcome to correct me if I’m wrong about what I said and I never stated it as fact. Just my perspective so if it’s wrong please point out what about is wrong. I don’t blindly accept what I’m told regardless of someone’s profession.

From what I’ve read, all an infected person has to do to infect someone is merely breath and the virus is airborne infecting those up to 5+ feet away. It also can linger in the air for hours and live on surfaces for days. With proper cleaning of tables I fail to see how allowing dine in would be any worse then what we are currently doing.

just on the news it can live 3 hours in the air. Plus your putting you credit card in the card reader or touching the key pad which isn't being cleaned. Money which isn't being cleaned. Your going to get a lid from the drink station which isn't being cleaned. Your touching the door handle to get in some places which isn't being cleaned. So yeah once you sit foot into a place the chances of you getting it goes up and up and up. Not being able to sit at a table is only one less things out of many that you just came in contact with. I guess what i'm saying is STAY HOME IF POSSIBLE

Call 911 if you see a business open for inside business other than carry out.

It is one thing to ask for people to contact the police, but there are non emergency lines that seem more appropriate for this.

It is one thing to ask for people to contact the police, but there are non emergency lines that seem more appropriate for this.

From okc.gov...

"A violation of the proclamation’s terms would be a class “b” misdemeanor under City Code, punishable by up to 6 months in jail and a fine of up to $750."

I'd listen to the doctor folks.

From what I’ve read, all an infected person has to do to infect someone is merely breath and the virus is airborne infecting those up to 5+ feet away. It also can linger in the air for hours and live on surfaces for days. With proper cleaning of tables I fail to see how allowing dine in would be any worse then what we are currently doing.

So are the tables being properly cleaned? If you watch them clean your table and the chairs with a solution containing at least 60% alcohol, as well as the doors, between each customer and you sit 6 feet away, you may be right. But I don’t feel comfortable that would happen 100%. And don’t get me started on public restrooms. Regardless, I respect Mayor Holt greatly and know he has everyone’s best interests in mind, so I wouldn’t consider disobeying his edict.

And I would definitely stop using cash. Your card in a card reader is far safer. Tap cards are even better.

Btw, while I am a doctor, my sister-in-law is an adult infectious disease specialist who trained under Dr. Fauci. We had a long conversation last night, and I’m simply repeating things she told me.

And I would definitely stop using cash. Your card in a card reader is far safer. Tap cards are even better.

It has always been recommended good hygiene to wash your hands after handling currency. Same applies today. I personally have seen no need to "definitely stop using cash."

^

betts is an MD; her husband too.

I think she knows what she is talking about.


I had a very well respected Oncologist at Stephens Cancer Center tell me my cancer had metastasized from my head and neck to my heart and lungs and there was very little else that could be done for me. For 15 days I went forward thinking my time was up. Met with a thoracic surgeon to see about radical surgery and he examined me and laughed and said "You're fine." months of followup later - the 2nd doctor was right and he wasn't even a cancer doc and the cancer doc was dead wrong (pardon the pun). So, professions and labels don't always equate to the best information by themselves. Plenty of doctors out there convincing soccer moms on Facebook not to vaccinate their kids.

All of that to say, if I worried intensely about every surface I came into contact with, I'd never leave my home. Which sounds like what this doc would prefer. That's great, but I'm gonna disrupt my life as little as possible while taking great care not to come into contact with high risk individuals. But that's just me.

It is one thing to ask for people to contact the police, but there are non emergency lines that seem more appropriate for this.

The article she quoted was about the police saying to call 911 to report.

So are the tables being properly cleaned? If you watch them clean your table and the chairs with a solution containing at least 60% alcohol, as well as the doors, between each customer and you sit 6 feet away, you may be right. But I don’t feel comfortable that would happen 100%. And don’t get me started on public restrooms. Regardless, I respect Mayor Holt greatly and know he has everyone’s best interests in mind, so I wouldn’t consider disobeying his edict.
Ah well I didn’t realize you were a doctor and I do have the uttermost respect for that so I apologize for the condescending remarks I made. However the statement of call the cops on a business for letting patrons sit down did make me chuckle.

But I am being serious about my questions and not saying it in snark. So your opinion is that it is safer to ban sit down dining and letting people order to go? Why is that? The chance of spread really is that much higher?

From what I’ve read, all an infected person has to do to infect someone is merely breath and the virus is airborne infecting those up to 5+ feet away. It also can linger in the air for hours and live on surfaces for days. With proper cleaning of tables I fail to see how allowing dine in would be any worse then what we are currently doing.

The answer is within your own post. lol.

"...all an infected person has to do to infect someone is merely breath and the virus is airborne infecting those up to 5+ feet away. It also can linger in the air for hours and live on surfaces for days" = DON'T SIT AT TABLES AND DON'T SIT IN RESTAURANTS. It is safer to close them. I have been ordering to go and ordering in and I have yet to be within 10 feet of anyone except the one person who handed me my food. I then immediately washed my hands. That is dramatically more likely to curb spread than sitting in a restaurant where you're inevitably going to be close to people, touching the same things, and breathing the same air for longer periods of time.

But what I’m asking is if that’s all it takes then what is the difference between ordering to go and sitting down? If distance is the issue then shut down some tables and keep a smaller number of them open for use...?

COVID-19 Cases by County
County COVID-19 Cases by County*
Canadian 2
Cleveland 8
Custer 1
Grady 1
Jackson 1
Kay 2
Logan 1
McClain 1
Oklahoma 18
Pawnee 1
Payne 1
Stephens 1
Tulsa 5
Washington 1
Total 44

I firmly believe a good portion of all of this "advice" "mandates" "orders" etc. is simply to make the public feel like something is being done and they can do something. As opposed to "A lot of us may die, but there is very little we can actually do about it."

I firmly believe a good portion of all of this "advice" "mandates" "orders" etc. is simply to make the public feel like something is being done and they can do something. As opposed to "A lot of us may die, but there is very little we can actually do about it."
I agree there is a lot of that. I went into an eatery this morning in WeHo and you had to wash your hands before you could walk around and shop for food. While I can see the mentality behind I just fail to understand how that would prevent anyone from getting sick if I had the virus.

Now I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t wash your hands obviously.

With Charleston's doing such a thriving business, I was surprised when I called to see about togo orders and was told "All Hal Smith restaurants are closed." That's a lot of people not working.

I agree there is a lot of that. I went into an eatery this morning in WeHo and you had to wash your hands before you could walk around and shop for food. While I can see the mentality behind I just fail to understand how that would prevent anyone from getting sick if I had the virus.

Now I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t wash your hands obviously.

So, let's say you sneezed on your steering wheel on your way over, then you touched the wheel. If you then went in and touched items in the store, or the basket, or the credit card reader and pin pad, etc., etc., etc. then you could spread it that way to the next to touch any of those items. They now believe that the virus can live up to 3 DAYS or more on plastic, stainless steel, and other hard surfaces, and hours on boxes, etc. If you sterilize BEFORE going in and touching, then it greatly reduces the odds of spread. If you cough or sneeze while there, all bets are off.

So, let's say you sneezed on your steering wheel on your way over, then you touched the wheel. If you then went in and touched items in the store, or the basket, or the credit card reader and pin pad, etc., etc., etc. then you could spread it that way to the next to touch any of those items. They now believe that the virus can live up to 3 DAYS or more on plastic, stainless steel, and other hard surfaces, and hours on boxes, etc. If you sterilize BEFORE going in and touching, then it greatly reduces the odds of spread. If you cough or sneeze while there, all bets are off.

I’d imagine that if your actively shedding the virus then the pre-shopping hand wash is a bandaid at best. It’s another ‘feel good’ measure. I can touch the infected shopping cart all I want as long as I wash my hands before touching a mucous membrane or non-intact skin. Of course none of that addresses those billions of droplets in the air. ZERO. I bet we are going to find that touch transfer is fairly insignificant compared to simply inhaling it.

Here, I think, a good video summarizing the whole ordeal:
The Coronavirus Explained & What You Should Do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY)

Of course, as we've already seen in this thread, we're going to selectively trust and follow the advice of only the people or sources we choose and most often those sources are going to be the ones that best align with our pre-conceived or desired worldview. We will dismiss sources that don't align with us.

I'd say that hindsight will reveal the truth, but in all honesty if we come out of this relatively unscathed the predominant thought will surely be "we way over-reacted" regardless of what measures were or were not taken. Conversely, if this all goes (further) to hell in a handbasket the response will almost certainly be "there was nothing we could have done to prevent this", again regardless of what measures we did or didn't take.

Anyway, I like the video though.

We went out for the first time in four days yesterday, and the only stop was to get gas for our van. I picked up the handle using a Clorox wipes, pressed the keypad buttons with a Clorox wipe, and inserted/removed my card holding a Clorox wipe. I then wiped down the card with another Clorox wipe.

I then wiped down my door handle, steering wheel, gear shift, turn signal, and armrest, then threw the wipe away before I got back in the car. I don't think I touched anything with bare fingers/hands.

Drove around a bit just to get out of the house, and noticed the TriCity WalMart parking lot was essentially business as usual and not exceptionally full. It was weird seeing most restaurants closed other than drive-thrus.

So many don’t want to believe or simply don’t understand how or financial system works. If we as a county do what we are currently doing for 30 more days we will be I. A Great Depression type environment. Do it for 60 more days. And our way of life might be over for ever.

OK Dept. of Health just updated statistics:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona031920a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona031920b.jpg

We went out for the first time in four days yesterday, and the only stop was to get gas for our van. I picked up the handle using a Clorox wipes, pressed the keypad buttons with a Clorox wipe, and inserted/removed my card holding a Clorox wipe. I then wiped down the card with another Clorox wipe.

I then wiped down my door handle, steering wheel, gear shift, turn signal, and armrest, then threw the wipe away before I got back in the car. I don't think I touched anything with bare fingers/hands.

Drove around a bit just to get out of the house, and noticed the TriCity WalMart parking lot was essentially business as usual and not exceptionally full. It was weird seeing most restaurants closed other than drive-thrus.
When going to the store or wherever you should wear latex type disposable gloves. After exiting wherever then either throw gloves away and use the 60%+ sanitizer on them and reuse.

Here, I think, a good video summarizing the whole ordeal:
The Coronavirus Explained & What You Should Do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtN-goy9VOY)

Of course, as we've already seen in this thread, we're going to selectively trust and follow the advice of only the people or sources we choose and most often those sources are going to be the ones that best align with our pre-conceived or desired worldview. We will dismiss sources that don't align with us.

I'd say that hindsight will reveal the truth, but in all honesty if we come out of this relatively unscathed the predominant thought will surely be "we way over-reacted" regardless of what measures were or were not taken. Conversely, if this all goes (further) to hell in a handbasket the response will almost certainly be "there was nothing we could have done to prevent this", again regardless of what measures we did or didn't take.

Anyway, I like the video though.

One of the only people on this entire site speaking and truth.

@betts, I tried to send you a DM but your box is full.

When going to the store or wherever you should wear latex type disposable gloves. After exiting wherever then either throw gloves away and use the 60%+ sanitizer on them and reuse.

Please do not wear latex gloves unless you have specifically been directed to do so by your health care provider. Instead, wipe surfaces well and follow the handwashing guidelines.
Gloves are needed in the supply chain for healthcare workers. The general public does not need gloves.

Please do not wear latex gloves unless you have specifically been directed to do so by your health care provider. Instead, wipe surfaces well and follow the handwashing guidelines.
Gloves are needed in the supply chain for healthcare workers. The general public does not need gloves.

The healthcare workers are not getting gloves from the same places the general public does. This is a supply chain issue that starts and ends with the manufacturers/distributors. Mercy hospital doesn't run to Walmart to buy gloves or masks.

OK Dept. of Health just updated statistics:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona031920a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona031920b.jpg

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are way more than 18 people in Oklahoma that are sick with this virus. I went to go help them at Braums today the are desperate for help cause they are so busy. I had to go kick people out of the store. We had more than 10 people in line. It 's not grocery that's busy it's the fountain. Sales at the store i went to today is up $100 for lunch hour. It's crazy how many people are still going out and about IMO.

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are way more than 18 people in Oklahoma that are sick with this virus. I went to go help them at Braums today the are desperate for help cause they are so busy. I had to go kick people out of the store. We had more than 10 people in line. It 's not grocery that's busy it's the fountain. Sales at the store i went to today is up $100 for lunch hour. It's crazy how many people are still going out and about IMO.

The chart says there are 44 in Oklahoma - The 18 is Oklahoma *County*

The healthcare workers are not getting gloves from the same places the general public does. This is a supply chain issue that starts and ends with the manufacturers/distributors. Mercy hospital doesn't run to Walmart to buy gloves or masks.

From the WHO directive on glove use,
"The use of gloves when not indicated represents a waste
of resources and does not contribute to a reduction of
cross-transmission.
• It may also result in missed opportunities for hand hygiene."

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1240689514441400320?s=20

So many don’t want to believe or simply don’t understand how or financial system works. If we as a county do what we are currently doing for 30 more days we will be I. A Great Depression type environment. Do it for 60 more days. And our way of life might be over for ever.

So 11 million dead is a worthwhile price to pay to save the economy while we wait 18 months for (hopefully) a vaccine? You might feel that way until the victims are people you love. I don’t see any easy answers here.

We are slowly bleeding. Until we have a complete shut down of everything like Christmas day this is just going to keep going and going and going. Not that a complete shut down might total stop it but it will give us time to see if these new drug work and get more test ready.

Mercy hospital doesn't run to Walmart to buy gloves or masks.

True. Instead they are asking physicians to buy their own at Home Depot or Harbor Freight and be reimbursed later.

https://twitter.com/SolNataMD/status/1240738322244231168?s=20

The chart says there are 44 in Oklahoma - The 18 is Oklahoma *County*

kukblue1's point still stands, there are way more than 44 people in OK that have it, we haven't tested nearly enough people. Oh, and related to that, OK is one of the seven states Rachel Maddow called out for not doing enough, haven't watched the clip yet, just read a short story about it.

True. Instead they are asking physicians to buy their own at Home Depot or Harbor Freight and be reimbursed later.

https://twitter.com/SolNataMD/status/1240738322244231168?s=20

There can be many reasons.

First off this is in Florida.

Second its not uncommon for companies in shortages or crisis to use direct buying by employee due to not having credit accounts set up. You don’t just ask them to trust you we’ll pay you later. So the shortcut is direct buying.

Third, its likely their purchasing folks are overwhelmed with replenishing every supply in that hospital and anything that can be done like this helps. Due to public run on everything it means much more time devoted to just basics.

I could not imagine being in a purchasing position right now it must be madness 24/7 trying to get everything to run a hospital. Wipes are hard to get for anyone regardless public or private as an example.

kukblue1's point still stands, there are way more than 44 people in OK that have it, we haven't tested nearly enough people. Oh, and related to that, OK is one of the seven states Rachel Maddow called out for not doing enough, haven't watched the clip yet, just read a short story about it.

Saw this article (https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/as-pandemic-spreads-life-continues-as-normal-in-many-rural-communities/) this morning, which does not exactly make me optimistic for how things are going to unfold in Oklahoma.

From the WHO directive on glove use,
"The use of gloves when not indicated represents a waste
of resources and does not contribute to a reduction of
cross-transmission.
• It may also result in missed opportunities for hand hygiene."

I'm not advocating the use of gloves by civilians. I think it's ridiculous. Unless you have severely chapped hands or unintact skin, I don't see the purpose as a civilian. If it gets on your glove and you touch a mucous membrane, etc. you face infection. Otherwise, the virus simply being on your hand is not an extreme risk. Just be mindful what you touch and wash your hands often.

Saw this article (https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/as-pandemic-spreads-life-continues-as-normal-in-many-rural-communities/) this morning, which does not exactly make me optimistic for how things are going to unfold in Oklahoma.

Thanks. Far too many people going out and about IMO. Glad to see places starting to close. Kohl's, TJ maxx, Marshalls. In Michigan and Indiana even Dentist offices have closed. Factories are closing up there. Seems like to me people in Oklahoma are taking a ho hum approach to all this.

Does anyone know, are restaurants in cities such as Moore, Edmond, Yukon, Midwest City, and Del City also just doing takeout/delivery, or are their dining areas still open?

Thanks. Far too many people going out and about IMO. Glad to see places starting to close. Kohl's, TJ maxx, Marshalls. In Michigan and Indiana even Dentist offices have closed. Factories are closing up there. Seems like to me people in Oklahoma are taking a ho hum approach to all this.
Many Oklahomans, while very nice, aren't exactly the brightest people...

Does anyone know, are restaurants in cities such as Moore, Edmond, Yukon, Midwest City, and Del City also just doing takeout/delivery, or are their dining areas still open?

I think MWC and Del City are the only ones with dining rooms still open.

Thanks. Far too many people going out and about IMO. Glad to see places starting to close. Kohl's, TJ maxx, Marshalls. In Michigan and Indiana even Dentist offices have closed. Factories are closing up there. Seems like to me people in Oklahoma are taking a ho hum approach to all this.

The ODA has shut down dentist offices 2 days ago.

I think MWC and Del City are the only ones with dining rooms still open.

Thanks for the info.

The ODA has shut down dentist offices 2 days ago.

HUH Dental Depot in Yukon has been open my friend went yesterday and today.

My Dentist friend in MI can open for emergency procedures.

I think MWC and Del City are the only ones with dining rooms still open.

The Midwest City Council has scheduled an emergency meeting tomorrow, March 20 at 7 a.m. The council will consider an emergency ordinance that would limit hours and procedures for restaurants and bars.
The proposed ordinance includes:
- All bars and similar venues that do not serve food must be closed from noon March 20 until April 12.
- All bars and similar venues with on premise food may serve take-out or delivery food, or pre-packaged alcohol (permitted under state law). They must otherwise be closed to the public from noon March 20 until April 12.
-Restaurants with dine-in service can only serve customers at every other table in the dining area. Signs stating “CLOSED FOR SERVICE” must be placed on the other tables, clearly indicating which are for dine in use.
- All tables used for service must be at least 6 feet apart.
- All tables used for service should have “sufficient space” for the party being seated to distance themselves while being served.
- Each table may have up to 6 seated customers.
- Restaurant owners or operators could face a fine of up to $200 and revocation/suspension of their municipal permit for up to 1 year for violation of the ordinance. Any patrons or staff present may also be cited for up to $200.

The Midwest City Council has scheduled an emergency meeting tomorrow, March 20 at 7 a.m. The council will consider an emergency ordinance that would limit hours and procedures for restaurants and bars.
The proposed ordinance includes:
- All bars and similar venues that do not serve food must be closed from noon March 20 until April 12.
- All bars and similar venues with on premise food may serve take-out or delivery food, or pre-packaged alcohol (permitted under state law). They must otherwise be closed to the public from noon March 20 until April 12.
-Restaurants with dine-in service can only serve customers at every other table in the dining area. Signs stating “CLOSED FOR SERVICE” must be placed on the other tables, clearly indicating which are for dine in use.
- All tables used for service must be at least 6 feet apart.
- All tables used for service should have “sufficient space” for the party being seated to distance themselves while being served.
- Each table may have up to 6 seated customers.
- Restaurant owners or operators could face a fine of up to $200 and revocation/suspension of their municipal permit for up to 1 year for violation of the ordinance. Any patrons or staff present may also be cited for up to $200.

WOW WOW WOW. Moved here 8 years ago didn't realize how Dumb this state was until now. At someone point we are going to get to the point where everything will have to close. So why not just do it now and hope 2 weeks things are better and have more test. The longer we wait to close everything the long we will have to be closed. Would you rather be closed for 2 weeks or 1-2 months.

WOW WOW WOW. Moved here 8 years ago didn't realize how Dumb this state was until now. At someone point we are going to get to the point where everything will have to close. So why not just do it now and hope 2 weeks things are better and have more test. The longer we wait to close everything the long we will have to be closed. Would you rather be closed for 2 weeks or 1-2 months.

I don’t appreciate you calling the whole state dumb thats a bogus gaslighting label would hope you reconsider use of words

I don’t appreciate you calling the whole state dumb thats a bogus gaslighting label would hope you reconsider use of words

Would soft be a better word. I mean after all we are so soft when it comes to other parts of your lives any more. People don't like hearing the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is we need to close everything. Our state thinks well if we don't test anyone then we will have very low numbers and that is a soft way to be approaching all this

Would soft be a better word. I mean after all we are so soft when it comes to other parts of your lives any more. People don't like hearing the cold hard truth. The cold hard truth is we need to close everything. Our state thinks well if we don't test anyone then we will have very low numbers and that is a soft way to be approaching all this

Regardless all that, you labeled a whole state dumb. Not cool

I don’t appreciate you calling the whole state dumb thats a bogus gaslighting label would hope you reconsider use of words

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational _attainment

34th in high school degrees, 44th in bachelor's and advanced degrees, seems fairly accurate to me (at least going by education levels).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational _attainment

34th in high school degrees, 44th in bachelor's and advanced degrees, seems fairly accurate to me (at least going by education levels).

Just stop!

The topic he was talking about was MWC and a few other cities. He took what they are doing and made that apply to the whole state and called all Okies dumb. Your post is not relevant to his so why add to it? His application of dumb is different than your google search of education levels jfc dude just stop!

My point stands he called every Okie dumb for no reason!

But what I’m asking is if that’s all it takes then what is the difference between ordering to go and sitting down? If distance is the issue then shut down some tables and keep a smaller number of them open for use...?

DISTANCE IS THE DIFFERENCE! DISTANCE. How is this so hard to understand? I have been carrying out/ordering out for days and haven't even come within 10 feet of a person in the last 5 days besides my wife. We don't even do a hand off. I ask them to set it down and then I come and pick it up. In a restaurant I would always be close to people in a closed environment. It's not comparable.

So many don’t want to believe or simply don’t understand how or financial system works. If we as a county do what we are currently doing for 30 more days we will be I. A Great Depression type environment. Do it for 60 more days. And our way of life might be over for ever.

I agree that this is a serious concern. However, there's some hypocrisy since I can insert "health/medical" for "economic/financial" and this statement applies to your comments.