I just saw this,

In Palm Beach County, at least 1,360 children age 17 and younger are infected with COVID-19. The percent positivity is a stunning 33.5 percent — that’s up from the last pediatric update a week ago.

The Palm Beach County pediatric percent positivity is higher than neighboring Broward County which reports 32.2 percent, but lower than Miami-Dade which reports 39.7.

First it’s sad. Second it really makes one wonder how many people have it without knowing.

TODAY IS THE DAY: Please call or email your council member to vote yes for the mask ordinance. I read elsewhere that McAtee, for one, is counting emails and phone calls and will vote accordingly.

Importantly, if there are fewer than 7 votes, the ordinance won’t go into effect until August 21! Help!

Definitely call McAtee if you are in his ward but no matter who your council member is, tell them to vote yes. They need to hear from you!

Here is a link to all council members and their contact info:

https://www.okc.gov/government/city-council

Please call your council person and tell them to vote no for the mask ordinance there needs to be public meetings on this issue

Please call your council person and tell them to vote no for the mask ordinance there needs to be public meetings on this issue

Honestly, the less the uninformed public has input on this issue, the better:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaFSH0K4BdQ

Also, time is of the essence here, with more than a thousand Oklahomans catching this thing every day.

Honestly, the less the uninformed public has input on this issue, the better:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaFSH0K4BdQ

Also, time is of the essence here, with more than a thousand Oklahomans catching this thing every day.
This I agree with completely. And the only two alternatives that I can see are let the virus run wild and take our chances or shut everything down for as long as it takes for the numbers to come way down. Neither of those are acceptable when an alternative that can be easily accomplished if everyone just shows a little caring for our fellow man is available.

Please call your council person and tell them to vote no for the mask ordinance there needs to be public meetings on this issue

No, there doesn't. And I emailed Cooper last week with a subject of "Make masks mandatory".

Emailed mine and told him to vote YES!

I still find it strange some people are a hell of a lot more mad and upset over mandatory masks than over the government closing their favorite bars, restaurants and other businesses back when it first happened. It sure all had far greater adverse impact against freedom loving people. You still can't see a movie. Why aren't they protesting in front of movie theaters?

Some people are more afraid of the mask than the virus.

Honestly, the less the uninformed public has input on this issue, the better:

Has anyone ever accused you for begin an elitist IRL? Tell me when is the public informed enough to be heard? Is it when they have the right think? I believe we spoke earlier about how important it is to have the consent of the governed. But I get it, the authorization way of doing things is more efficient. What is the worst that can happen right?

Please call your council person and tell them to vote no for the mask ordinance there needs to be public meetings on this issue

Please call you City Council member and ask them to vote yes. Enough of this foolishness. Wear a DAMN MASK.


MASKS SAVE LIVES - DON"T BE A DOLT -- WEAR ONE

The city council meeting tomorrow where this will be discussed and voted upon IS a public meeting.

Please call your council person and tell them to vote no for the mask ordinance there needs to be public meetings on this issue

But it's been discussed so much that nearly all the 50 largest cities have already seen fit to adopt mandatory mask ordinances.

Has anyone ever accused you for begin an elitist IRL? Tell me when is the public informed enough to be heard? Is it when they have the right think? I believe we spoke earlier about how important it is to have the consent of the governed. But I get it, the authorization way of doing things is more efficient. What is the worst that can happen right?

How about we make people wishing to talk fill out a questionnaire before they're allowed to speak and if they're batsh*t crazy, they don't get to? :Smiley122 And yes, at this point, the "authorization" *temporary* way of doing things is more efficient and called for. States and municipalities have all kinds of power at their disposal during public health emergencies that have been found constitutional.

Has anyone ever accused you for begin an elitist IRL? Tell me when is the public informed enough to be heard? Is it when they have the right think? I believe we spoke earlier about how important it is to have the consent of the governed. But I get it, the authorization way of doing things is more efficient. What is the worst that can happen right?

Nixon opened up trade negiotiations with China when public support was against it. Politicians are welcome to "take the temperature" of the people, but they are supposed to vote based on all of the information they have access to, including information outside the public sphere. It's not majority rule, it's plurality. As PJ O'Rourke once wrote, "If it was majority rule, the Gap would only sell stone-washed jeans."

CDC Stops reporting hospital data

https://www.cdc.gov/nhsn/covid19/report-patient-impact.html

How about we make people wishing to talk fill out a questionnaire before they're allowed to speak and if they're batsh*t crazy, they don't get to? :Smiley122 And yes, at this point, the "authorization" *temporary* way of doing things is more efficient and called for. States and municipalities have all kinds of power at their disposal during public health emergencies that have been found constitutional.

That would eliminate most everyone on this forum, myself included...

The informational meeting the City Council is having this morning is really insightful, and these doctors are not holding back with their recommendations. They have emphasized the unknown long term impacts of this virus, the mortality rate, and the notion that herd immunity via just letting it spread is not a realistic or moral possibility (it would result in ~11,000 deaths in OKC metro alone). If I followed correctly, they are also requesting restrictions on gatherings of more than 25 people and shutting down all bars and restaurants again for up to 4 weeks (unclear on if only indoor or both indoor/outdoor). They are also adamant about mandatory mask usage and are warning of major troubles ahead for our hospitals, particularly once flu season begins (obviously not breaking news here, but still important to emphasize).

CDC Stops reporting hospital data

https://www.cdc.gov/nhsn/covid19/report-patient-impact.html

Gosh, I'm shocked. Only took two days, I am shocked at that, thought it might be a week or so before that started happening. So I'm guessing that info just transitioned somewhere over to the HHS website and is available to the public over there?

628 new cases today.

6 more people have died.

Has anyone ever accused you for begin an elitist IRL? Tell me when is the public informed enough to be heard? Is it when they have the right think? I believe we spoke earlier about how important it is to have the consent of the governed. But I get it, the authorization way of doing things is more efficient. What is the worst that can happen right?

Consent of the governed absolutely is important. However that consent is derived through the ballot box. Every member of the Council is up for election, so if the public does not like their decisions they have recourse through exercising their freedom to vote. That is essential in a democracy. However, we also elect leaders to respond to complex, time-sensitive issues like this on our behalf. In most cases public input is good. However in this case, with cases rising daily and time being of the essence, delaying the vote for even one day ensures that more Oklahomans get sick, hospitalized, and ultimately die. Also the science on masks is as close to unanimous as you would find in a scientific community. Unless the public has a cache of peer reviewed studies done and that somehow refute what’s already out there, there really is not much else to discuss here.

Emailed mine and told him to vote YES!
So did I

Consent of the governed absolutely is important. However that consent is derived through the ballot box.

this is what has gotten me here lately... people have confused democratic freedom with anarchy... thinking that they can literally do whatever they want, because the government for some reason can't provide protection for the population. it's like the Supreme Court hasn't already ruled on this (Jacobson v Massachusetts). anyways, i'm hopeful that more cities will pass mandates. and i'm liking what i'm seeing from businesses as well. Walmart already is requiring, and i heard Target is going to now aswell? that's great!

Florida with another 14,000 new cases today.

156 more people have died just in that state.

The U.S. has now had more than 140,000 Covid-19 deaths.

Here are the exceptions to the Tulsa mask order just signed into effect.

Not they do not except churches:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/tulsamask.jpg

Gosh, I'm shocked. Only took two days, I am shocked at that, thought it might be a week or so before that started happening. So I'm guessing that info just transitioned somewhere over to the HHS website and is available to the public over there?

They should have absolutely had the new systems in place BEFORE taking down the old access points. This is typical bungling (although I wouldn't limit it just to the current admin, when it involves government systems - I've got some stories I could share as I'm sure you could to - it definitely is MORE typical currently). I may be naively hopeful, but I still am anticipating all the data being transitioned and being available in some form or another on the HHS site. I imagine it may not have the same boards or charts that the CDC site has, so people may have to adjust. What I don't understand is that if the CDC is still getting access to the data why they wouldn't continue to keep these boards current regardless.

So, I have been watching this Health Department/OKC Council meeting off and on over the past 3 hours or so.

One of the recommendations from the Country Health Department was to intermittently close bars and restaurants. There was some discussion about this, the question being that it would be very patchwork since someone could drive to Edmond or Bethany and eat inside but can't in OKC. So I am going to be curious if that is going to be voted on tomorrow.

However, the mask ordinance has had some interesting discussion, lots more council-members for it, then against it. I think.

So, I have been watching this Health Department/OKC Council meeting off and on over the past 3 hours or so.

One of the recommendations from the Country Health Department was to intermittently close bars and restaurants. There was some discussion about this, the question being that it would be very patchwork since someone could drive to Edmond or Bethany and eat inside but can't in OKC. So I am going to be curious if that is going to be voted on tomorrow.

However, the mask ordinance has had some interesting discussion, lots more people for it, than against it. I think.

I've never agreed with this logic. I don't think MORE people will eat out in certain areas to offset the areas where less folks are. If you have 100 restaurants across the metro and 70 of them are covered by a mandate to close, there's still going to be a SIGNIFICANT reduction in transmission and exposure. Fine, we may not see a full 70% drop (although I'd argue that the action of closing the businesses will work as a deterrent for many people going out), it would still be a fairly large drop. Any reduction is certainly better than nothing.

Also, considering that the restaurant and bar industry is our (I think) second largest employer sector in the the state, it's a lot of employees getting a little more protection if their employer is forced to close.

If this passes in Okc, I wonder if some of the other cities such as Edmond, Midwest City etc will follow.

... the question being that it would be very patchwork since someone could drive to Edmond or Bethany and eat inside but can't in OKC. ...

That has been something that seems to have been overlooked - OKC can do all it wants, but if Yukon, Shawnee, Moore, Del City, MWC, Bethany, Edmond, The Village, Nichols Hills, Arcadia, Piedmont, Luther, Forest Park, Spencer, Nicoma Park, Norman, et al don't do their part, a mask mandate isn't going to be nearly as effective. "1492 in Automobile Alley requires masks, let's go to the one in Casady Square, they're in The Village, which doesn't". This is why we need some kind of state-level mandate, for maybe counties over a certain number of cases.

Emailed mine and told him to vote YES!

Thank you!

So did I

Thank you!

That has been something that seems to have been overlooked - OKC can do all it wants, but if Yukon, Shawnee, Moore, Del City, MWC, Bethany, Edmond, The Village, Nichols Hills, Arcadia, Piedmont, Luther, Forest Park, Spencer, Nicoma Park, Norman, et al don't do their part, a mask mandate isn't going to be nearly as effective. "1492 in Automobile Alley requires masks, let's go to the one in Casady Square, they're in The Village, which doesn't". This is why we need some kind of state-level mandate, for maybe counties over a certain number of cases.

First things first. OKC needs to pass its own and then we can lobby the burbs.

Thank you!

I emailed them all -- they don't know where I live or if they represent me or not.


WEAR MASKS SAVE LIVES

That has been something that seems to have been overlooked - OKC can do all it wants, but if Yukon, Shawnee, Moore, Del City, MWC, Bethany, Edmond, The Village, Nichols Hills, Arcadia, Piedmont, Luther, Forest Park, Spencer, Nicoma Park, Norman, et al don't do their part, a mask mandate isn't going to be nearly as effective. "1492 in Automobile Alley requires masks, let's go to the one in Casady Square, they're in The Village, which doesn't". This is why we need some kind of state-level mandate, for maybe counties over a certain number of cases.

That's why we needed a nationwide mask mandate months ago -- but we didn't so here we are....



WEAR MASKS SAVE LIVES

Would intermittently closing bars and restaurants be better than limiting capacity all the time. I would feel more comfortable going to eat with 30% capacity than on some given night and the place be full.

That has been something that seems to have been overlooked - OKC can do all it wants, but if Yukon, Shawnee, Moore, Del City, MWC, Bethany, Edmond, The Village, Nichols Hills, Arcadia, Piedmont, Luther, Forest Park, Spencer, Nicoma Park, Norman, et al don't do their part, a mask mandate isn't going to be nearly as effective. "1492 in Automobile Alley requires masks, let's go to the one in Casady Square, they're in The Village, which doesn't". This is why we need some kind of state-level mandate, for maybe counties over a certain number of cases.

Don't include Norman in that list of do nothing suburbs. We lead, not follow.

Would intermittently closing bars and restaurants be better than limiting capacity all the time. I would feel more comfortable going to eat with 30% capacity than on some given night and the place be full.

Limiting capacity all the time would be the more responsible move, IMO.

This is an interesting read on the history of anti-maskers (I'm especially amused by the used of "sanitary spartacans").

https://untappedcities.com/2020/07/15/the-anti-mask-league-of-1919-the-cultural-battle-of-an-enduring-pandemic/?fbclid=IwAR2p1SSANpeT0RtdP5rMtN10OxH2rJac3yY3E_Qw ficbO7-k9zElFApZT8U

Don't include Norman in that list of do nothing suburbs. We lead, not follow.

I know, they've already been better than every city in the state, had to put them in for completeness' sake. :)

What I think might happen, and this is going off of previous precedent through all of these previous actions.

I think you'll see OKC follow Tulsa in doing a mask ordinance.

I do not know if they will do the closing of restaurants, capping public indoor occupancy at 25 people.

I am probably wrong, but the biggest discussion that is happening is around those two recommendations specifically.

That has been something that seems to have been overlooked - OKC can do all it wants, but if Yukon, Shawnee, Moore, Del City, MWC, Bethany, Edmond, The Village, Nichols Hills, Arcadia, Piedmont, Luther, Forest Park, Spencer, Nicoma Park, Norman, et al don't do their part, a mask mandate isn't going to be nearly as effective. "1492 in Automobile Alley requires masks, let's go to the one in Casady Square, they're in The Village, which doesn't". This is why we need some kind of state-level mandate, for maybe counties over a certain number of cases.At least limiting the restaurants on NW Exp, I240, Memorial, Bricktown and Deep Duece would affect a lot of restaurant seating. And in March it seemed that Yukon followed pretty closely to OKC. And I could be wrong but I think MWC did too. That would be a lot more restaurant seating being limited.

Limiting capacity all the time would be the more responsible move, IMO.

Based on everything I've read about indoor vs. outdoor transmission, the best move is really to shut down all indoor dining and focus on expanding outdoor dining as much as possible. Let restaurants set up extra tables in their parking lots, maybe close down some streets with a high concentration of restaurants (thinking that 16th Street in the Plaza would be a perfect example of this).

This is an interesting read on the history of anti-maskers (I'm especially amused by the used of "sanitary spartacans").

https://untappedcities.com/2020/07/15/the-anti-mask-league-of-1919-the-cultural-battle-of-an-enduring-pandemic/?fbclid=IwAR2p1SSANpeT0RtdP5rMtN10OxH2rJac3yY3E_Qw ficbO7-k9zElFApZT8U

And sadly, history repeats itself. Found this line interesting, wonder why OKC was among those mentioned (were there few enough cities implementing an ordinance that OKC got on it, did OKC's stand out in some way from the others, ...?) - "Similar mask ordinances were created throughout the country, including Washington D.C., Phoenix, and Oklahoma City."

Based on everything I've read about indoor vs. outdoor transmission, the best move is really to shut down all indoor dining and focus on expanding outdoor dining as much as possible. Let restaurants set up extra tables in their parking lots, maybe close down some streets with a high concentration of restaurants (thinking that 16th Street in the Plaza would be a perfect example of this).

Absolutely that would be the best idea, but there are tons of people that will not eat outside in July/August in OKC (me included).

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

I've only dined out 3 times in the last several months, all at very popular places, and none were more than half full at peak times.

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

yep. we've been back in the office since the first of may. there's a certain place on 23rd that we've eaten lunch at a few times since everything has started to reopen and they have gradually gotten busier. we ate there for lunch last week and noted the crowd and that pretty much all of the distancing precautions had been removed. almost every table was occupied and none of the tables were closed to facilitate distanced seating. they have also returned to using traditional plates instead of serving everything out of closed to-go containers. employees were wearing masks, though.

yep. we've been back in the office since the first of may. there's a certain place on 23rd that we've eaten lunch at a few times since everything has started to reopen and they have gradually gotten busier. we ate there for lunch last week and noted the crowd and that pretty much all of the distancing precautions had been removed. almost every table was occupied and none of the tables were closed to facilitate distanced seating. they have also returned to using traditional plates instead of serving everything out of closed to-go containers. employees were wearing masks, though.

You stayed and ate that time? Are you going to go back and eat there again if their environment stays the same?

We haven't eaten indoors at a restaurant at all in months, we just get takeout via drive-through and curbside (and go inside to get takeout if absolutely necessary, but most places we've patronized are doing curbside). Missing Jimmy's omelettes, but there's no way their hash browns would be in decent shape by the time we got them home...

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

I've only dined out 3 times in the last several months, all at very popular places, and none were more than half full at peak times.
I haven’t eaten but I’ve been in BWW on NW Exp to the pick up counter one Saturday night and Clark Crew on another Saturday night. Both were pretty full. At least well over 50%. And one of my favorite hang outs, don’t judge, is Twin Peaks. They have been almost normally busy. No way I’m going to be around that many people until this crap is over.

This is most assuredly faked but I like it anyway.
16257

You stayed and ate that time? Are you going to go back and eat there again if their environment stays the same?

we did stay, but i'll probably think twice before returning until the epidemic returns to safer levels.

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

I've only dined out 3 times in the last several months, all at very popular places, and none were more than half full at peak times.

I have not dined out or had takeout since March 13, but I want to relate a story a friend told me. She and her husband had not dined in a restaurant until last week. She was craving one of the salads at Redrock Canyon in Norman.

They looked and it was basically empty when they were seated. Shortly thereafter, another party arrived and the hostess seated the other party right next to them in an empty restaurant! So they politely asked their server if they could move a few tables down.

Nobody else showed up until they were awaiting their check but then the hostess seated a newly arriving party at the adjacent booth right behind them!

If that’s how a Hal Smith joint rolls there is no hope for dine-in restaurant safety. I cannot get over how freaking oblivious people are to the world around them.

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

I've only dined out 3 times in the last several months, all at very popular places, and none were more than half full at peak times.

Go to a busy Braums during lunch you will see people on top of one another. Also take it from someone that has worked in food service for over 25 years they not very clean to begin with. You also have to think about other things also. Your putting silverware in your mouth then that gets on the plates the plates gets touched by the hands of the server. Even with a straw your mouth is coming in close contact with the cup. Your touching the table with your hands that depending on what you were eating were close or in your mouth. Nope too many germs going around that table would have to be scrubbed down to make sure it was 100 percent clean and if you think that is happening it's not. People talking. Even if it's just a few people in the restaurant I really can see how it can spread in that setting. I know I know you can get it at Walmart or a Target but you not doing a lot with your mouth other than talking. Easier to wear a mask it's impossible when eating.

I've never agreed with this logic. I don't think MORE people will eat out in certain areas to offset the areas where less folks are. If you have 100 restaurants across the metro and 70 of them are covered by a mandate to close, there's still going to be a SIGNIFICANT reduction in transmission and exposure. Fine, we may not see a full 70% drop (although I'd argue that the action of closing the businesses will work as a deterrent for many people going out), it would still be a fairly large drop. Any reduction is certainly better than nothing.

Also, considering that the restaurant and bar industry is our (I think) second largest employer sector in the the state, it's a lot of employees getting a little more protection if their employer is forced to close.

i think what you saw previously is that the bars and restaurants that didn't close became packed ..

Has anyone been to a busy restaurant in the last few weeks?

I've only dined out 3 times in the last several months, all at very popular places, and none were more than half full at peak times.

yes lots of the places we have been to in the last month have been very full ..

Also, didn’t look inside but every time I go by BJs on Memorial or the Chili’s on Rockwell the parking lots are full. Must be pretty full inside with that many cars.

FYI:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hospitals071520a.jpg

I've been looking at that number for a while and it keeps getting smaller. Is this not a concern? Haven't seen many people talking about it.

Why has our new color-coded county "alert system" not been updated in over a week? What use is that?

Edit: Apparently it is going to be updated at 11AM every Friday. I guess they didn't update it the first week since it had just been released. Gonna be a lot more orange and red...

Arkansas is requiring masks statewide starting Monday

Based on everything I've read about indoor vs. outdoor transmission, the best move is really to shut down all indoor dining and focus on expanding outdoor dining as much as possible. Let restaurants set up extra tables in their parking lots, maybe close down some streets with a high concentration of restaurants (thinking that 16th Street in the Plaza would be a perfect example of this).

I would support doing this on 16th

Absolutely that would be the best idea, but there are tons of people that will not eat outside in July/August in OKC (me included).

String some lights across 16th and eat dinner with your date at 900 pm. I believe eating later is common in other parts of the world.