The Death rate for over 65 is 80%. How do we protect our older generation? Let's give these people an extra $600 a week in their Social Security instead of giving it to the healthy 30 year old that should be out working. JMOI couldn’t agree more that the older you are the more careful you need to be about avoiding this virus. But in the interest of accuracy the 65+ data in Oklahoma is 234 deaths and 1412 cases. That’s 17%.

As far as food shopping, I did not have issues with Sprouts or Aldi's. It was Lowe's and Target for non food items. I needed light bulbs. I have light fixtures that have light 6 or 8 bulbs in them. They seem to want to go out all around the same time. I am worried about crowds in Costco. I might try them next time. I am a member at Costco and Sam's club. I really don't want to drive that far to Whole Foods but I might. Its usually in the rotation every few months and I do like their bakery.

If I am not mistaken Costco is limiting how many are in the store at a time. As for things like light bulbs, Amazon.com is an alternative.

Tough deal though is you can't really get things like paper towels from Amazon.

I literally use my own name and have posted here for a decade!

I for one have always appreciated your intelligent posts here.

Maybe it is the pessimist in me, but I don't understand how you could objectively say things are looking better. We have eleven new deaths reported in the last 24 hours. Yes I understand these deaths occured a few days ago, but it stands to reason that there will be deaths today, tomorrow, and the next day that are reported in the days following after.

I have complete faith that things will get better eventually. Every other country as far as I know has not seen a second wave like we thought.

I think things are steady at best. We are not out of the woods.

The Death rate for over 65 is 80%. How do we protect our older generation? Let's give these people an extra $600 a week in their Social Security instead of giving it to the healthy 30 year old that should be out working. JMO

Since when?

I for one have always appreciated your intelligent posts here.

And whether you agree or disagree, people should be treated respectfully.

We very rarely ban people but I'm going to start revoking posting privileges of those who can't debate without getting personal and sh*tty.

We are way better here than almost anywhere on the Internet when it comes to tone, but that has been slipping lately and I won't have it.

Maybe it is the pessimist in me, but I don't understand how you could objectively say things are looking better. We have eleven new deaths reported in the last 24 hours. Yes I understand these deaths occured a few days ago, but it stands to reason that there will be deaths today, tomorrow, and the next day that are reported in the days following after.

I have complete faith that things will get better eventually. Every other country as far as I know has not seen a second wave like we thought.

I think things are steady at best. We are not out of the woods.
Where are you getting 11. The OKDOH site says 5. If there’s other data out there I want to know where to look.
As fas as being better the daily numbers are better than they were a month ago. They just are. And as long as they are I’m going to stay positive. I’m a glass half full kind of guy. I always try to be positive.

Reading this makes me truly sad -- and angry. I'm sorry this happened. May I recommend Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, and Costco? I know they may or may not be your preferred shopping locales, but it seems as if they are taking this very seriously. Sadly, our own Oklahoma-owned businesses are hit or miss at best....

Homeland on 18th/Classen is taking it very seriously, moreso than the one at Britton/May, but yeah, other OK-owned grocery stores aren't doing that great at it. As far as the mask-wearing - do these same people b*tch and moan every time they get in a car and have to put on a seat belt? Or do they not wear them because "Freedumb"?

Since when?

I read it wrong. Total death by age group it's 80%. 80% of the deaths are from over 65.

Homeland on 18th/Classen is taking it very seriously, moreso than the one at Britton/May, but yeah, other OK-owned grocery stores aren't doing that great at it. As far as the mask-wearing - do these same people b*tch and moan every time they get in a car and have to put on a seat belt? Or do they not wear them because "Freedumb"?

Not exactly a great comparison. Physics doesn’t care whether the passengers in a car are young or old, have pre-existing conditions or are in perfect health, etc. The Virus very clearly does.

Plus, there’s growing evidence that Herd Immunity actually works. It won’t be the worst thing if younger people pick up some antibodies.

https://www.thenational.ae/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-s-controversial-herd-immunity-strategy-seems-to-be-paying-off-1.1022466

I feel embarrassed to say I thought your name was Dank Rutka... Some sort of play on the cannabis industry here in OK. :D

haha. I like it!


I for one have always appreciated your intelligent posts here.

Appreciate the kind words. It's hard to have good conversations on Internet forums, but I try and I know others do to here. I certainly have posts I regret like most people, but I've long appreciated the OKCTalk community and everything Pete does enough to keep posting after moving away a decade ago.

Not exactly a great comparison. Physics doesn’t care whether the passengers in a car are young or old, have pre-existing conditions or are in perfect health, etc. The Virus very clearly does.

Plus, there’s growing evidence that Herd Immunity actually works. It won’t be the worst thing if younger people pick up some antibodies.

Seat belt laws may not be a good personal health analogy to mask wearing because not wearing a seatbelt only hurts yourself. Not wearing a mask hurts other people. It's more of a public safety or public health issue. Protesting wearing a mask is more akin to protesting drunk driving laws. Just like drunk drivers, people who don't wear masks are putting other people's health at risk.

The herd immunity argument is so oversimplified and misunderstood as a policy option. We have under 1% of people infected currently. If you're arguing for herd immunity then you're arguing for 70-80 times the sickness, morbidity, and deaths as we have now. There's a reason no health experts are advocating for it. It's the worst possible option and doing it as a policy option might be the most harmful option for the economy too. Even if we wanted it, it would still take a long time to get to herd immunity. We might be able to get a vaccine within that same amount of time AND save lives by not pursuing it. It's really just a policy of impatience.

https://kfor.com/news/lucky-star-casino-employee-tests-positive-for-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR0W2Z797F1-gg2u2ws7ti5Zeb4WE1R5BIrNKdH41JsMNy5lCbZjq002mRs Goes back to keeping the older population safe. I can't see how a casino could ever be safe with all the smoking and the age of the clients they get

https://kfor.com/news/lucky-star-casino-employee-tests-positive-for-covid-19/?fbclid=IwAR0W2Z797F1-gg2u2ws7ti5Zeb4WE1R5BIrNKdH41JsMNy5lCbZjq002mRs Goes back to keeping the older population safe. I can't see how a casino could ever be safe with all the smoking and the age of the clients they get
Any casino would be just about the last place on earth that I would even think of going to right now.

Any casino would be just about the last place on earth that I would even think of going to right now.

I was just going to edit my post and say I guess if you go there that is on you but off all the places that i will not be going too anytime soon it's the casino.

Oh and I have been watching news 4 all night and not a word. Advertisement money I would guess.

Pretty smart move, but kind of sad that it had to be done.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/coronavirus-julia-roberts-celebrities-passthemic-fauci-experts_n_5ec56fcbc5b689d9f14be4c9

I read it wrong. Total death by age group it's 80%. 80% of the deaths are from over 65.

In my opinion, if there has to be a spike, I hope it won't be in deaths from plenty of health impaired older people staying at home as well as enough social distancing and mask wearing to be effective. I'm motivated to wear a mask from having no idea if the virus would be mild or quite severe from it hitting me. I hope masks work better than nothing. If not, people may have to wear eye protection more commonly than now. The people who know or suspect they're positive shouldn't be out and if they must, it's even more important they wear masks.

The virus has hit some people in good health so hard they had to be hospitalized. Maybe some healthy people who won't wear a mask don't know that.

Whenever a vaccine is actually available, there still may not be enough people in Oklahoma who go out and get it so that we have "herd immunity" for those who don't...

"A quarter of Americans have little or no interest in taking a coronavirus vaccine, a Reuters/Ipsos poll published on Thursday found, with some voicing concern that the record pace at which vaccine candidates are being developed could compromise safety."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-poll-exclu/exclusive-a-quarter-of-americans-are-hesitant-about-a-coronavirus-vaccine-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN22X19G

Seat belt laws may not be a good personal health analogy to mask wearing because not wearing a seatbelt only hurts yourself. Not wearing a mask hurts other people. It's more of a public safety or public health issue. Protesting wearing a mask is more akin to protesting drunk driving laws. Just like drunk drivers, people who don't wear masks are putting other people's health at risk.

The herd immunity argument is so oversimplified and misunderstood as a policy option. We have under 1% of people infected currently. If you're arguing for herd immunity then you're arguing for 70-80 times the sickness, morbidity, and deaths as we have now. There's a reason no health experts are advocating for it. It's the worst possible option and doing it as a policy option might be the most harmful option for the economy too. Even if we wanted it, it would still take a long time to get to herd immunity. We might be able to get a vaccine within that same amount of time AND save lives by not pursuing it. It's really just a policy of impatience.

I think that's a bit of oversimplification yourself. Not wearing a seatbelt most certainly does in many instances hurt others. From the fact it contributes to the driver's inability to maintain control to passengers being thrown about and into other occupants. And while it doesn't necessarily hurt other's it certainly impacts them. First responders are called and put at unnecessary risk, resources are called upon at the scene and hospital, there are real costs associated, and an impact to family and friends.

But I get where you were going. I don't however agree that not wearing a mask is in general hurting others. Especially when the masks currently being worn are sadly inadequate. I say in general because I do think masks in high risk environments are a good thing. Places like nursing homes, people who work in close quarters with one another for long periods of time and things like that. Not running to the grocery store. I think prolonged dining is a risk, but I don't see how a mask can be worn in those situations. This why I prefer to eat outside on patios at the present time.

^

The question becomes, do we just continue down this dangerous Greed is Good path or will this be a pivot point where we take stock of what is important and realize we don't need a new car every few years or some huge home even though families are much smaller than when the average home size was about 1/3rd what it is now? Or faced with an actual trial run, do we merely decide we'll continue to roll the dice because we want immediate gratification?

I think these are the most interesting questions coming from this entire situation.

That will be very tough, and could would require a total paradigm shift - because unfortunately, we've been trained over the last half century to believe that that what we spend out money on is what gives us identity and self worth. To take away someone's ability to replace their car or their clothes or their iphone every year, is to take away someone's perceived individuality.

I don't think anything is going to change, other than more polarization. People are extremely plugged into the news and media they consume and it shapes their worldview to a huge degree. You can see it in the response to the pandemic, the protests some areas are having, the pushback against masks.

Where are you getting 11. The OKDOH site says 5. If there’s other data out there I want to know where to look.
As fas as being better the daily numbers are better than they were a month ago. They just are. And as long as they are I’m going to stay positive. I’m a glass half full kind of guy. I always try to be positive.

Eleven the past two days. Five yesterday and six reported the day before.

Updated for Thursday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona052120a.jpg

AND another five reported dead just now since the report yesterday. I refuse to believe the numbers are dropping because it is simply not true. The numbers are all a day or two behind.

AND another five reported dead just now since the report yesterday. I refuse to believe the numbers are dropping because it is simply not true. The numbers are all a day or two behind.

I agree I don't think the numbers are changing all that much however we're not really seen a huge jump from when we opened things up on May 1st which is a good thing how many of the new cases are also from the correctional facility in Comanche County

A day behind

https://i.imgur.com/NU5mqLH.jpg

https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en

The numbers do run behind. That’s why I look at trends. And I have to be positive until there’s data to justify to me to be negative.
April 1st to 21st, 164 deaths, 369 hospitalized, 5 days of double digit deaths.
May 1st to 21st, 74 deaths, 186 hospitalizations, 0 days of double digit deaths.
May’s numbers are lower than April’s and I’m going to feel good about that.
I’m not saying I think it’s going away anytime soon or that I’m taking it lightly. We’re going to be getting hospitalizations and deaths for the foreseeable future. And I’m going to continue only going to work and the grocery store wearing a mask and going through soap and sanitizer like crazy for the foreseeable future.

Updated for Thursday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona052120a.jpg

From 100 to 200 deaths it took 2 weeks. From 200 to 300 deathd it took 3 weeks. From 300 to 400 deaths I hope it takes 4+ weeks.

The numbers do run behind. That’s why I look at trends. And I have to be positive until there’s data to justify to me to be negative.
April 1st to 21st, 164 deaths, 369 hospitalized, 5 days of double digit deaths.
May 1st to 21st, 74 deaths, 186 hospitalizations, 0 days of double digit deaths.
May’s numbers are lower than April’s and I’m going to feel good about that.
I’m not saying I think it’s going away anytime soon or that I’m taking it lightly. We’re going to be getting hospitalizations and deaths for the foreseeable future. And I’m going to continue only going to work and the grocery store wearing a mask and going through soap and sanitizer like crazy for the foreseeable future.

This was a refreshing perspective.

Thank you.

So far we've been pretty lucky that the weather has been pretty great during the pandemic, but it occurred to me yesterday as it gets hotter that people are starting to get more frustrated by having to stand outside in line when it gets warmer. A small price to pay in the greater scheme of things though.

So far we've been pretty lucky that the weather has been pretty great during the pandemic, but it occurred to me yesterday as it gets hotter that people are starting to get more frustrated by having to stand outside in line when it gets warmer. A small price to pay in the greater scheme of things though.Hadn’t thought of that. I’ve been going shopping right at opening time. Stores aren’t as busy then so I can be as distant as possible. Hope it stays that way.

https://i.ibb.co/3mGC17c/Capture.png

The date of first symptoms is what concerns me the most right now. 240 cases reporting that May 12th was the first day they experienced symptoms, and by far the most of any day since this began. Seeing as things began re-opening on May 1st, that puts it right in sweet spot of the incubation period.

Unfortunately, there's no breakdown of location on those dates, so it's possible a good chunk could be from the panhandle. But that May 11th-15th period is not what I would have liked to see. Even more so, multiple deaths reported the 15th as the date of symptom on-set, and one on the 17th.

KFOR says hospitals have seen a 25% increase in coronavirus patients.

I hope masks work better than nothing. If not, people may have to wear eye protection more commonly than now. The people who know or suspect they're positive shouldn't be out and if they must, it's even more important they wear masks.

The virus has hit some people in good health so hard they had to be hospitalized. Maybe some healthy people who won't wear a mask don't know that.

There has always been strong evidence that mask wearing reduces spread, but there's increasingly more evidence.

Surgical masks can reduce coronavirus spread by 75 percent: researchers (https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/498458-surgical-masks-can-reduce-coronavirus-spread-by-75-percent-researchers)

And here's the pre-print study I've shared numerous times: Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review (https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1)

And anyone who thinks young, healthy people are immune are mistaken. They have a better chance, but they can also end up hospitalized or die too.

I really don't understand the level of stubbornness and lack of consideration involved with not wearing a mask. I see it a lot with men more so than women for some reason. It sets a poor example that neither the governor nor the president will wear one.

The studies on masks are clear. If 80% of people wore masks in public spaces like grocery stores, we would snuff this virus out very quickly and "get back to normal." Putting a piece of cloth over your nose and mouth seems like a very small price to pay for "freedom."

KFOR says hospitals have seen a 25% increase in coronavirus patients.

that's pretty concerning... according to the executive summary, there were 63 confirmed positives hospitalized on 5/18 which jumped to 90 hospitalized on 5/20. however, we are still down from the 123 hospitalized on 4/30 and the average of 112 for the 7 reports on and following 4/30.

that's pretty concerning... according to the executive summary, there were 63 confirmed positives hospitalized on 5/18 which jumped to 90 hospitalized on 5/20. however, we are still down from the 123 hospitalized on 4/30 and the average of 112 for the 7 reports on and following 4/30.

Was that primarily due to the spike from the meat processing plant in Guymon?

Was that primarily due to the spike from the meat processing plant in Guymon?

it's possible... unfortunately (as discussed previously) the reports don't contain geographic data on hospitalizations.

I really don't understand the level of stubbornness and lack of consideration involved with not wearing a mask. I see it a lot with men more so than women for some reason. It sets a poor example that neither the governor nor the president will wear one.

From an Oklahoman article yesterday:
Gov. Kevin Stitt on Wednesday said he’s going to let Oklahomans decide whether they should wear a face mask in public during the COVID-19 pandemic. “To me, that’s a personal preference,” he said.
“If you feel safer in a mask, then we definitely encourage you to do that. If you can remain social(ly) distance(d), we don’t think you necessarily need to have a mask, but that’s a personal preference.”
https://oklahoman.com/article/5662816/stitt-wearing-a-face-mask-a-personal-preference

Welp, I'm in the minority in this group obviously, but none of this back and forth has convinced, me, my household or my immediate circle of friends, minus maybe 1-2, to feel the need to wear masks at all times in public. Obviously there are plenty of people that feel the same as I do. Maybe they are not on this thread and maybe they just choose to remain silent so as not to draw some of the quiet frankly totally inappropriate personal comments some of you are making about mine and others personal choice. I'm not looking to argue, but I'm also not going to pretend there are not an awful lot of people that feel the same as I do. And I'm not talking about the virus deniers or those that think everything is back to pre-pandemic conditions.

Welp, I'm in the minority in this group obviously, but none of this back and forth has convinced, me, my household or my immediate circle of friends, minus maybe 1-2, to feel the need to wear masks at all times in public. Obviously there are plenty of people that feel the same as I do. Maybe they are not on this thread and maybe they just choose to remain silent so as not to draw some of the quiet frankly totally inappropriate personal comments some of you are making about mine and others personal choice. I'm not looking to argue, but I'm also not going to pretend there are not an awful lot of people that feel the same as I do. And I'm not talking about the virus deniers or those that think everything is back to pre-pandemic conditions.

Something tells me nothing would ever be able to convince you.

I feel safer when I take LSD; yet I can't This isn't about freedoms, this is about health and other's safety.

Welp, I'm in the minority in this group obviously, but none of this back and forth has convinced, me, my household or my immediate circle of friends, minus maybe 1-2, to feel the need to wear masks at all times in public. Obviously there are plenty of people that feel the same as I do. Maybe they are not on this thread and maybe they just choose to remain silent so as not to draw some of the quiet frankly totally inappropriate personal comments some of you are making about mine and others personal choice. I'm not looking to argue, but I'm also not going to pretend there are not an awful lot of people that feel the same as I do. And I'm not talking about the virus deniers or those that think everything is back to pre-pandemic conditions.

Unfortunately there are quite a few folks who like the idea of telling free Americans what they can and can’t do with their own bodies. It’s a sad situation.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few folks that think freedom means you can do whatever you want.

I posted a while back one day the report showed like 183 in the hospital then the next day it showed like 209 but the other report only showed like 6 new hospitalizations. I'm not understanding the numbers.

There were 42 new hospitalizations on the 5-19 EOR raising the total number of confirmed and investigated hospitalizations to 209. That was not good. And that gets reported on KFOR and maybe others. On the 5-20 EOR the total number of confirmed and investigated hospitalizations dropped by 8 to 201 and no one says a word.

We submitted a large number of samples to the State Public Health Lab on May 12. We received the results today, 9 days later. They also show as having been finalized by the State Lab today. So I would continue to expect a very delayed trend in the reporting.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few folks that think freedom means you can do whatever you want.

Yeah, that’s exactly what it means.

There were 42 new hospitalizations on the 5-19 EOR raising the total number of confirmed and investigated hospitalizations to 209. That was not good. And that gets reported on KFOR and maybe others. On the 5-20 EOR the total number of confirmed and investigated hospitalizations dropped by 8 to 201 and no one says a word.

But the report only shows like 5 new hospitalizations. So how did it jump? Were people already in the hospital?

Welp, I'm in the minority in this group obviously, but none of this back and forth has convinced, me, my household or my immediate circle of friends, minus maybe 1-2, to feel the need to wear masks at all times in public. Obviously there are plenty of people that feel the same as I do. Maybe they are not on this thread and maybe they just choose to remain silent so as not to draw some of the quiet frankly totally inappropriate personal comments some of you are making about mine and others personal choice. I'm not looking to argue, but I'm also not going to pretend there are not an awful lot of people that feel the same as I do. And I'm not talking about the virus deniers or those that think everything is back to pre-pandemic conditions.

I find it very interesting that you, your family and immediate circle of friends choose to disregard the health of other people. I am not in a high risk group and I don't like to wear a mask, but out of respect for other people's health I wear one in public. There have been numerous studies cited here that mask wearing by everyone would cut the transmission rate by 75-80%. I don't mind making a small sacrifice to benefit my fellow Oklahomans.

Unfortunately there are quite a few folks who like the idea of telling free Americans what they can and can’t do with their own bodies. It’s a sad situation.

Was that you I recently saw in a video at a Costco by any chance?

Again, and I can't believe this really has to be said again. Wearing a mask has nothing to do with your own body. It's about respecting the rights of other people and what THEY want their own bodies exposed to.

If you are not wearing a mask in public places you are choosing to place your own personal comfort above the safety of your fellow citizens.

I look at wearing mask as wearing shoes. Your not going to go anywhere without wearing shoes. Why cause it protects your feet. A mask protects your lungs. It's not like you need to wear it very long .

I look at wearing mask as wearing shoes. Your not going to go anywhere without wearing shoes. Why cause it protects your feet. A mask protects your lungs. It's not like you need to wear it very long .

From what I have heard, most masks we can buy as non-medical personnel don't do anything for us (the person wearing it); it is more for those around you, since they are usually better at keeping your breath particles in rather than keeping others particles out).

But the report only shows like 5 new hospitalizations. So how did it jump? Were people already in the hospital?
I don’t know. The front page of the OKDH site often has one number, the EOR has another and if you start digging through the other data on the site you come up with another. For instance on 5-18 to 5-19 the main page showed 5 new hospitalizations but the EOR went from 167 the day before to 209. I just stick to the numbers on the EOR because my understanding is they are “corrected”.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few folks that think freedom means you can do whatever you want.

noun: freedom
the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.

Given the definition above I can see how people may get the impression that freedom means you can do whatever you want. As Adults and Citizens we limit OURSELVES for the good of the community. The GOVERMENT does not limit us. Even if they could limit our freedom by force it would take to.much time and effort to enforce. The individual puts limits on themselves. This is the balance between FREEDOM and living in a Society.

^

Along those lines, I read today that air travel is less than 10% what it was before virus.

And there are virtually no restrictions on domestic air travel, it's all been voluntary.

Well, like I've expressed, and continue to be reminded, this is not a friendly place for people to share and discuss their opinion if it differs from the bully majority on this thread. Well, at least not unless they want to lower themselves to trying to belittle others to make their point seem more valid. I'll just have to take solace in the reality that when I do go out in public, the majority of people, including our own governmental leaders whom we elected, seem to share in my logic, my interpretation of the numbers and my level of concern for the realistic threat of the virus to myself and those around me. To me it's a difference of opinion that I can find scientific validation for just as easily as the other side can to validate their own opinion. But I don't have to call you, directly or indirectly, ignorant or make it seem as if you're callous to the welfare of others simply to express my view.

the majority of people, including our own governmental leaders whom we elected, seem to share in my logic

SOME government leaders that YOU chose to follow.

There are very many who wear masks and have different opinions but you don't agree with their politics so you disregard that.

And of course apolitical scientists who know more about this than anyone are almost unanimous on this issue.

It's fair to challenge those who disregard the advice and clear direction from scientists and merely follow the lead of politicians they agreed with long before this transpired, because that has nothing to do with logic.