This is so different comparing states. Wow:

Population:

Florida: 21,500,000
New York: 19,500,000

Coronavirus cases:

FL: 38,828
NY: 337,421

Coronavirus deaths:

FL: 1,600
NY: 26,365

probably due primarily to this:

average population density for each state:
florida state: 353 people/sq. mile
new york state: 421 people/sq. mile

population density for each state's largest city (by population):
miami: 12,139 people/sq. mile
new york city: 26,403 people/sq. mile

It's hard to imagine there will be sports with fans this year. First, I cannot imagine high schools taking even the legal risk of holding events where people could get sick and some die. There's a lot of older people and unhealthy people involved in high school sports. Schools tend to be very careful. The NBA won't likely even start next season until Christmas or January and they are also being very careful... I don't expect them to have regular games until there's a vaccine. We'll see how things go, but I don't expect spectator sports with spectators until 2021 at the earliest.

Due to its inability to attract business and industry, Stillwater relies on game days for a significant part of its economy, so I don't see Stillwater major attempt to lead the way in trying to stop OSU from allowing fans in for games.

Maybe an effective drug can be found to greatly reduce deaths from COVID-19 ahead of a vaccine. It will be interesting how things next year turn out.

probably due primarily to this:

average population density for each state:
florida state: 353 people/sq. mile
new york state: 421 people/sq. mile

population density for each state's largest city (by population):
miami: 12,139 people/sq. mile
new york city: 26,403 people/sq. mile

Oh I agree plus NYC has subways they never shut down.

But Florida has a huge elderly population and thats been the target of most deaths. Rare to see such a disparity in stats like this.

Will be a good many studies done about this in the years ahead

probably due primarily to this:

average population density for each state:
florida state: 353 people/sq. mile
new york state: 421 people/sq. mile

population density for each state's largest city (by population):
miami: 12,139 people/sq. mile
new york city: 26,403 people/sq. mile

Maybe the many more deaths in NYC are due to people getting exposed to greater amounts of virus at a time, in other words, easier to be around more than one or two persons who are contagious.

it would shock me if there are not fans in the stands at OU football games this fall ..

I won't be shocked if they're there wearing masks. Probably some business is looking forward to selling a bunch of them with OU or Boomer Sooner stamped on them.

probably due primarily to this:

average population density for each state:
florida state: 353 people/sq. mile
new york state: 421 people/sq. mile

population density for each state's largest city (by population):
miami: 12,139 people/sq. mile
new york city: 26,403 people/sq. mile

I think NYC's reliance on mass transit played a big part in it as well. There was probably a lot of transmission on the subways before people realized how serious it was.

I won't be shocked if they're there wearing masks. Probably some business is looking forward to selling a bunch of them with OU or Boomer Sooner stamped on them.


I would probably go to OU games if masks are required for everyone. Otherwise, unless things improve drastically, I'll be staying home.

New York has also tested over 1 million. Florida is still at 500k.

I would probably go to OU games if masks are required for everyone. Otherwise, unless things improve drastically, I'll be staying home.

I can't imagine they will have in person games at OU. They already have all classes reduced by 50% to increase social distance. All classes over 50 people are going to be online basically. If they are going to be that stringent on classes I can't imagine they are just going to let 80k+ people go to a game.

I have to wonder where the "NYC has subways they never shut down" wording is coming from, I've seen that in multiple places on social media and forums just in the last couple of days.

I can't imagine they will have in person games at OU. They already have all classes reduced by 50% to increase social distance. All classes over 50 people are going to be online basically. If they are going to be that stringent on classes I can't imagine they are just going to let 80k+ people go to a game.

I'm not counting on OU having football in the fall, let alone allowing fans in the stands. I'm just saying the only way I would go is if they require everyone to wear a mask.

As for classes, they should definitely make all students wear masks in the Fall regardless of class size.

I just don't see all sports completely shut down until next year. Different form, controlled environments, absolutely. None at all? No way.

Think of the legal liability. It would be off the charts. Also, how would they decide who gets tickets if there are even fans present?

There are people out there who seem to believe that "everything will be OK after August." There is no evidence to support that, unfortunately. My boss believes we will still have college football, it will just start in October instead of September. Again, not sure what that additional month would do but I think it's totally normal to suffer from wishful thinking.

OU has said they will return to in-person classes, but they closed down after 1 staff member was diagnosed. Do you believe they will risk their faculty, staff, and students if the threat still exists for widespread transmission?

Sad to say, but I am prepared to tell the athletic office that we will not be renewing our tickets this season. Without going into great detail, the combination of factors present among our family makes reckless behavior, well, reckless.

My employer had significant layoffs yesterday, as well. And while I survived that round, I'm not sure that will be the case by the end of summer, making football tickets a luxury purchase anyway.

Dave you are easily one of the smartest people on this forum, so your words are imminently respected, but I can't help but think you are engaged in some wishful thinking on this matter.

Updated for Friday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona050820a.jpg

I can't imagine they will have in person games at OU. They already have all classes reduced by 50% to increase social distance. All classes over 50 people are going to be online basically. If they are going to be that stringent on classes I can't imagine they are just going to let 80k+ people go to a game.

I think they will definitely have crowds at games this season at OU if they have classes on campus in the fall...which if it goes according to the current plan, they will. The question will be whether they let 20, 40, 60 or 80k into the stadium. And if the attendance is reduced, who gets in? They could use some kind of lottery among season ticket holders and students with those who don’t get selected being refunded for the game they couldn’t attend and allowing people who are selected to opt out if they don’t want to go. It wouldn’t make everyone happy but would be about the fairest way to do it. Suites and loge boxes would probably be okay since they already achieve some level of social distancing anyway...and it would make sure the university got the massive chunk of revenue from those season ticket holders. Additionally they could offer season refunds without the penalty of losing their season tickets for season ticket holders who don’t feel safe gong to games this season.

I have to wonder where the "NYC has subways they never shut down" wording is coming from, I've seen that in multiple places on social media and forums just in the last couple of days.

Did they ever shut the subways down? If they didn’t shut them down or reduce their capacity until late in the game, wouldn’t that have increased the viral transmission?

They only shut them down completely this week for a "deep cleaning." Apparently the first time in 115 years the system was shut down completely. Not even for 9-11.

I would probably go to OU games if masks are required for everyone. Otherwise, unless things improve drastically, I'll be staying home.

As I was thinking out loud about getting rid of tickets to an outdoor music event because just too many people shoulder to shoulder, common bathrooms and all that. It was mentioned by a friend how much yelling goes on...by the people behind you, aspirating all sorts of moisture in your direction and the environment around you. Which reminded me of all the loud screaming and especially loud screaming drunks I've been around at similar events, both sports and music. Will they keep their masks on for that? I'm not going to go and find out.

Hard pass for the foreseeable future.

Regardless of how many fans they allow and when they allow it, I've said before that sports and movies are likely to be impacted for years to come.

Both were already trending downwards because everything can be viewed at home now and huge, gorgeous TV's are cheap.

Stadiums and theaters have been adding better food, alcohol and other amenities in an attempt to slow the downward attendance momentum, but this virus is an entirely new thing that is going to keep people away and once you lose people, it's very hard to get them back.

I love going to games but I will absolutely be going to less in the next couple of years.

For colleges, this is a big problem because it's not just a sports owner that is affected, but entire universities will take a big financial hit and that will have a big impact in many ways that touches lots of people, maybe for a decade or more.

Regardless of how many fans they allow and when they allow it, I've said before that sports and movies are likely to be impacted for years to come.

Both were already trending downwards because everything can be viewed at home now and huge, gorgeous TV's are cheap.

Stadiums and theaters have been adding better food, alcohol and other amenities in an attempt to slow the downward attendance momentum, but this is an entirely new thing that is going to keep people away and once you lose people, it's very hard to get them back.

I love going to games but I will absolutely be going to less in the next couple of years.

Hard for me to consider paying $10 for a jug of popcorn, $8.00 for a soda, $9 for a single hot dog any type of "amenity". I can kind of get behind it at the movies, because tickets can be found relatively cheap. But when you're dropping $180 for a single, 3 hour event ticket, it's so annoying to eat crappy food and drink blah drinks at a 250% premium.

I had not been to the theater but maybe once in the last 5 years until the holidays when we went a few times and enjoyed it. <sigh> Guess that's over with for awhile.

Question: once a vaccine becomes widely available, will things go back to 2019, when we know the flu exists, but no one gives a crap about it? Or will people still live in fear of it even then, and fear every hand they shake has some new virus? Or will there be a happy medium? Just curious, since from my Facebook feed, there are only those on either side.

Question: once a vaccine becomes widely available, will things go back to 2019, when we know the flu exists, but no one gives a crap about it? Or will people still live in fear of it even then, and fear every hand they shake has some new virus? Or will there be a happy medium? Just curious, since from my Facebook feed, there are only those on either side.

I would hope it would be back to normal but instead we fund agencies with more money to combat and identify ways to stop pandemics from happening in the future. As with all things it will be like that for a few years then those things will be rolled back to save some money and we end up in this again sometime in the future!

I had all but quit going to the movies long before Covid-19 because of ****head behavior from other patrons at the theatres (bringing dinners in, vaping, cell phone use, etc.).

I would hope it would be back to normal but instead we fund agencies with more money to combat and identify ways to stop pandemics from happening in the future. As with all things it will be like that for a few years then those things will be rolled back to save some money and we end up in this again sometime in the future!

The ironic thing is, if China were not so arrogant, and having to put up a perfect, peachy touristy front, and acknowledged this from the beginning, 7-8 months ago, we would not be in this mess. Hopefully countries will be more forthright with their issues, and the WHO won't help them hide those issues for 3 months. No one is perfect, I know, but some of the gaffes in this are totally preventable.

I apologize for any veiled politics, and feel free to move to an appropriate thread!

Regardless of how many fans they allow and when they allow it, I've said before that sports and movies are likely to be impacted for years to come.

Both were already trending downwards because everything can be viewed at home now and huge, gorgeous TV's are cheap.

Stadiums and theaters have been adding better food, alcohol and other amenities in an attempt to slow the downward attendance momentum, but this virus is an entirely new thing that is going to keep people away and once you lose people, it's very hard to get them back.

I love going to games but I will absolutely be going to less in the next couple of years.

For colleges, this is a big problem because it's not just a sports owner that is affected, but entire universities will take a big financial hit and that will have a big impact in many ways that touches lots of people, maybe for a decade or more.

Sadly I agree.

Did they ever shut the subways down? If they didn’t shut them down or reduce their capacity until late in the game, wouldn’t that have increased the viral transmission?

I didn't ask "Is this true", I was wondering where the talking point came from. When you see a phrase like that spring up in multiple, unconnected places all at the same time it makes a person wonder.

I didn't ask "Is this true", I was wondering where the talking point came from. When you see a phrase like that spring up in multiple , unconnected places all at the same time it makes a person wonder.

Probably because they just shut it down for the first time ever so they can clean. Seeing that news made a lot of people go "they haven't been shutting it down for cleaning already?" maybe?

would be suprised if OU went to Army and played that game. Guessing they will reschedule in a couple of years.
Game is supposed to be played on Sept 26th.

Updated for Friday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona050820a.jpg

Numbers seem steady. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing. I guess good cause we are doing more testing and it's now super wide spread. Bad cause they still not really going down even after all this time of social distancing?

How much more testing? At least one hospital in town is having issues obtaining supplies and their testing numbers have declined.

I had all but quit going to the movies long before Covid-19 because of ****head behavior from other patrons at the theatres (bringing dinners in, vaping, cell phone use, etc.).

I avoid going during peak times, such as on weekends.

Think of the legal liability. It would be off the charts. Also, how would they decide who gets tickets if there are even fans present?



Require ticket buyers to sign a statement that says they won't sue from being sick.

Probably because they just shut it down for the first time ever so they can clean. Seeing that news made a lot of people go "they haven't been shutting it down for cleaning already?" maybe?

I think it's like Denny's (or The Kettle, I believe, in Edmond, where they had to close for a remodel, but couldn't find the keys since they had been open 24x7 for years) where they never close, but close off rotating sections so each can be deep cleaned. I'm sure they've closed parts of it at various times over the years, but never completely closed the entire system at once.

I'm wondering where to buy some things that Homeland (18th/Classen) or Sprouts (63rd/May) doesn't have, and we don't shop at Walmart, Target, or Crest and don't order online from Walmart or Amazon (yeah, I know - gasp, shock, how does one even live like that :)). Looking for paper towels, napkins, disinfectant wipes, flushable wipes, Kleenex, dishwasher detergent, Jet-Dry. And strangely enough, neither Sprouts nor Homeland had a boneless pork butt (have a good carnitas recipe we want to try). Homeland's meat guy said he'd have to cut some, and came out with a pork shoulder instead of a butt, which is why I called him a meat guy and not a butcher. :(

^

Have you tried Aldi?

^

Have you tried Aldi?

Thank you, never really shopped there, and even though it's right up the street, didn't think of it, will give them a try. :redface:

Thank you, never really shopped there, and even though it's right up the street, didn't think of it, will give them a try. :redface:

It's unusual and it took me a while to understand and appreciate it.

If you don't care for it after a visit or two, I would encourage you to keep going. There are good reasons for their massive success, they just might not be obvious when taken by how different it is.

What about Eley's? They have a really good butcher.
I'd second Aldi, too, for lots of things.

What about Eley's? They have a really good butcher.
I'd second Aldi, too, for lots of things.

Eh, last time we went to Eley's, it was crowded, people literally rubbing against each other as they went by, too social-distancing-noncompliant for us. That might apply to Aldi too, not sure what their procedures are, but if they're safe enough, we'll give them a shot, thx.

It's unusual and it took me a while to understand and appreciate it.

If you don't care for it after a visit or two, I would encourage you to keep going. There are good reasons for their massive success, they just might not be obvious when taken by how different it is.
There is an excellent podcast somewhere about Trader Joe's explaining that one of the brother's owns Aldi's. They are Germans and they are fascinating. I had never tried Aldi but between that podcast and 2 Instacart orders from them, I am a fan.

So between the 1st and the 7th we had 712 new cases which was a 18% increase from the week before and things only partially opened on the 24th. Be interested to see the numbers on the 14.

So between the 1st and the 7th we had 712 new cases which was a 18% increase from the week before and things only partially opened on the 24th. Be interested to see the numbers on the 14.

I'd be willing to be that's a smaller increase than the increase in testing over the same time period. That's why I focus more on the hospitalizations and deaths numbers.

I'd be willing to be that's a smaller increase than the increase in testing over the same time period. That's why I focus more on the hospitalizations and deaths numbers.

Do they listed the number of test being processed? Do they have the capacity now to process more of the test or are they testing more but still can only run 2,000 thru the machine in a day?

Do they listed the number of test being processed? Do they have the capacity now to process more of the test or are they testing more but still can only run 2,000 thru the machine in a day?They do list the number of results reported each day. For instance on the April 8 report there were 2148 test results reported with 96 being positive. On 5-8 there were 4845 tests reported with 121 being positive. So 2697 more tests with only 25 more positives.
I just did two five day periods. April 6-10, 10,372 tests, 607 positive. May 1-7 (5days, May 2-3 don’t have a report) 19,146 tests, 658 positives. 8,774 more tests with only 51 more positives.

Updated for Saturday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona050920a.jpg

In S. Korea, it took just one contagious person to force a back peddle. The lesson to be learned is that Oklahomans better keep practicing social distancing in coming months and avoid gatherings not doing it.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/south-korea-backtracks-on-reopening-after-covid-19-cases-jump/ar-BB13PJY0?li=AAggFp5#image=BBZaM5o|4

It's time for Herd immunity. Enough said.

It's time for Herd immunity. Enough said.

I wasn't with you until you said "Enough said", then I was convinced. Thank you, brian72.

In S. Korea, it took just one contagious person to force a back peddle. The lesson to be learned is that Oklahomans better keep practicing social distancing in coming months and avoid gatherings not doing it.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/south-korea-backtracks-on-reopening-after-covid-19-cases-jump/ar-BB13PJY0?li=AAggFp5#image=BBZaM5o|4

I would take a lot more in American than something like this for another shut down. Unfortunately I would think it would start taking our hospitals to fill up before we come close to another shut down.

I wasn't with you until you said "Enough said", then I was convinced. Thank you, brian72.

:yeahthat:

Now, that said, you could end up being 100% right, but I just can't see the presence of a confirmed vaccine being the one and only litmus test for sports returning in some form.

It'll certainly be interesting and I admit that I could be wrong that sports will have no fans this year. There's a lot of complex factors, but there are a few primary reasons for my pessimism.

First, states and universities will have uneven policies. Some universities may cancel football all together while others will want to move forward with fans. What happens when a university says they'll have fans and the opposing university/state says they won't let their players play in front of fans.

Second, schools and universities are risk averse. What happens when a player, coach, or fan dies from contact at one of these sporting events. It seems like even a single case nationwide will send alarms to everyone else. Maybe I'm wrong, but most schools and universities do not want preventable deaths attributed to them.

Third, there's no way to isolate high school or college players and personnel. If the NBA comes back, they're going to do so in a bubble of limited contact and testing with millions of dollars and workers to make it happen... and they still don't know if they can pull it off. How will schools or universities achieve anything similar.

I'd love to see schools and universities figure this out in a way that's safe. We'll see...

It's time for Herd immunity. Enough said.

Step up. Have you purposely caught COVID-19 yet? Until then you're not walking the walk. Enough said.

P.S. I do not think you should purposely contract COVID-19. I think that's actually very dangerous to your health.

Question: once a vaccine becomes widely available, will things go back to 2019, when we know the flu exists, but no one gives a crap about it? Or will people still live in fear of it even then, and fear every hand they shake has some new virus? Or will there be a happy medium? Just curious, since from my Facebook feed, there are only those on either side.

You can get a flu shot. Why do you continue to parrot this completely debunked comparison?

You can get a flu shot. Why do you continue to parrot this completely debunked comparison?

The flu shot is a hit or miss. They have to make it so far in advance and “guess” which of the 100 strains to make and only make 2 or 3 strains per year. Its very low percent in hitting it right.

Take the flu reference out of the question of jdizzle’s and I think it’s a very good question.
I think there will be many different levels of behavior after a vaccine is found. From some never going back to the normal that they went by pre COVID. Some will take some varying amount of time to reach some varying level of pre COVID normal and some picking up normal like it never happened at all.

The flu shot is a hit or miss. They have to make it so far in advance and “guess” which of the 100 strains to make and only make 2 or 3 strains per year. Its very low percent in hitting it right.

It's true it can vary, but in most years the CDC estimates through vaccine the disease is reduced by 40-60% in the entire U.S. general population, and that's with only about 30% of adults getting the shot.

I get a jab every year and haven't had the flu in over 3 decades and when I did get it, I was not in a regular habit of being vaccinated. Yes, people still come down it with but when was the last time you worked somewhere when there was a big outbreak?

Flu shots aren't perfect but like most vaccines, they work. Using "low percentage" to describe any part of the flu vaccination process is just plain false.

It's time for Herd immunity. Enough said.

To most this has come to mean, "Everyone else can be careful and take all the precautions outlined by hard science including getting vaccinated, and I'll do nothing but hopefully benefit."

To most this has come to mean, "Everyone else can be careful and take all the precautions outlined by hard science including getting vaccinated, and I'll do nothing but hopefully benefit."

Yep.

It's true it can vary, but in most years the CDC estimates through vaccine the disease is reduced by 40-60% in the entire U.S. general population, and that's with only about 30% of adults getting the shot.

I get a jab every year and haven't had the flu in over 3 decades and when I did get it, I was not in a regular habit of being vaccinated. Yes, people still come down it with but when was the last time you worked somewhere when there was a big outbreak?

Flu shots aren't perfect but like most vaccines, they work. Using "low percentage" to describe any part of the flu vaccination process is just plain false.

Flu shots do work, and thank you for getting yours. I worked a flu outbreak in Washington state last year and it wasn't fun.
Pediatricians are starting to report drop offs on kids who are due for regular immunization schedule. I'm not sure what our baseline rate is for kids in OKC, but it bears watching. The last thing we need is a measles outbreak like California saw last year.

Numbers updated for Monday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona051120a.jpg