It suggests to me shelter in place isn't working out very well. For the gradual reopening a lot more people had better wear masks combined with social distancing. I will practice what I preach. People in less than good health better not chance it at all by going to stores. I don't see how anyone who has been very sick and suffering before from the flu or strep throat would want to take a chance without a mask. Strep throat is easily treated with antibiotics, but not COVID-19.

If your city is handing out free masks and you need one, take advantage of it. They will quite likely be much better that the crude sew free ones you can make with a handkerchief or old T-shirt. I don't want the transition to normalcy to fail and have to return to the Twilight Zone.

Seen a youtube with people making masks using Merv 13 air cond. filters. They say the Merv 13 would be similar to the N95 masks.

That's very helpful. Could you do one showing hospitalizations?
Actually I have new, hospitalizations and deaths all in the 5 day average format. They’re on my work computer so I’ll post the other two tomorrow.

Seen a youtube with people making masks using Merv 13 air cond. filters. They say the Merv 13 would be similar to the N95 masks.
We looked into changing to HEPA filters in our HVAC system in the office N95 equivalent would be MERV 17 by our research.

If you’re obese (which is the most common factor), elderly, or have other underlying health issues stay home.
Ok, jerk (just kidding) I'm 60 pounds over weight, 76 years old, and I have C. O. P. D., so I might as well just throw in the towel! But you are right, I don't go anywhere other than jumping on my mobility scooter and go outside to enjoy the fresh air. I'm going to be more careful now that the rules are easing up. I agree with the opening of the businesses but that means that there is a possibility that I will be exposed to more potential sick folks than I was over the last month.
C. T.

Actually I have new, hospitalizations and deaths all in the 5 day average format. They’re on my work computer so I’ll post the other two tomorrow.

Thanks.

I'm glad to hear about Urban Agrarian service. Is their inventory on their website? I know they try to keep stuff fresh and organic so I imagine the stock turns over fast.

Their website gives an overview of the products they carry, and it is significant. They have added things that aren't local, but perhaps regional, like citrus and avocados, for example. They work with a fisherman in Alaska who catches cod and rock fish wild and ships it frozen. That's kind of a Whole Foods price point but if you're craving fish it's a great option.

They don't allow you to come inside, so I just call them and start asking for stuff. They make recommendations. Then they assemble your order for you. They were busy Saturday so they needed an hour to put everything together.

The first week I ordered I asked about beef. That was on a Wednesday. They said they were sold out but would be getting a side of beef in Friday. So I got two fresh, not frozen, strip steaks and some of the best ground beef I have ever eaten, also fresh, from a small rancher near Enid.

We ended up buying like three pounds of the ground beef, by that time frozen, a couple of days later, and have since thawed a pound for some of the best chili ever. Sorry if this is making you hungry!

The chicken they had was only in the boneless, skinless variety . We actually went over to the old farmer's market and picked up some chicken from a local farm. It was not crowded at all and the vendors were spaced out from one another and wearing masks and paying attention to sanitation.

I really don't miss going to the supermarket at all. So yeah, the Urban Agrarian thing is keeping me sane. They are curating some great food from all around Oklahoma and they are moving a lot of food. They are open 7 days a week. They did tell me this has been good for their business.

NOTE: I'm talking about the one in Downtown OKC. They offer food from their Edmond location, too, but I haven't been there.

No it’s a way to rationalize not guaranteeing the start of a second Great Depression by keeping stay at home orders in effect for another year while we wait for a vaccine.

Responding to your own strawman (no one has suggested year-long stay at home policies) proves my point. I’m not dismissing different policies and approaches (see Sweden’s approach below), but so many people calling for re-opening the economy are making disingenuous arguments.

Sweden’s model is interesting, but has also resulted in large numbers of elderly deaths: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

So places that can open are required that everyone needs to wear a mask. What about the places that are currently open aka Braums and others that are not requiring employess wear mask? Or is that going to change May 1st?

Any food prep business where masks aren't required by their owners - especially one like Braum`s won't get my business right now..... law or not.

Stitt is being audited for his Covid-19 spending
https://oklahoman.com/article/5661180/coronavirus-in-oklahoma-attorney-general-asks-for-audit-of-health-department


The Oklahoman reported Tuesday that health officials had been moving forward with a $9.5 million purchase of N95 masks and other equipment from a new company even after being told the FBI was investigating it. A special agent with the FBI told DeMarco the company was being investigated for possible fraudulent activity involving Chinese ventilators, according to information obtained by The Oklahoman.

Health officials canceled that deal Monday at the last minute.

The Oklahoman reported April 20 that health officials were ordering more than $9 million in masks from a Tulsa company that at the time had been in existence for less than a month. A partner in that company also owned a Tulsa piano bar.

The Oklahoman also reported April 20 that the state secretary of health, Jerome Loughridge, had authorized prepayment on some supplies costing millions of dollars.

Deliveries of certain supplies, particularly of N95 masks from China, have been slow to arrive or have not arrived at all, officials have acknowledged. The Health Department on Tuesday evening reported having approximately 130,000 N95 masks on hand.

The Associated Press reported this week that Oklahoma spent $2 million to buy the malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine, to treat patients with the coronavirus despite warnings from doctors that more research was needed. Stitt said Tuesday, "I was being proactive to try and protect Oklahomans."

Stitt is being audited for his Covid-19 spending
https://oklahoman.com/article/5661180/coronavirus-in-oklahoma-attorney-general-asks-for-audit-of-health-department

It does follow this path of the current administration it seems.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/g6lvi3/obama_still_no_coherent_national_coronavirus_plan/foapyuv/


It's more than that. The Federal Government under Trump thinks they have no duty to help states at all, that they should in fact actively compete against them to funnel money to an even more elite group than the 1%.

The following is not my work. Here's the scam as it exists:

Hospitals say feds are seizing masks and other coronavirus supplies without a word. (1) This is in addition to the Fed stealing supplies from shipments from states, and acts of piracy abroad. (2)

Here's how what they're doing works:
1.) Eliminate oversight of the spending of nearly a trillion dollars of tax dollars. (3)

2.) Acquire the authority to command which businesses get which contracts. (4)

3.) Have trusted people stand up companies through which the money can be funneled (3 week old company, founded through a loan approved via the Coronavirus Stimulus bill, is now the center of medical supply distribution): (5) “I don’t want to overstate, but we probably represent the largest global supply chain for Covid-19 supplies right now,” he said. “We are getting ready to fill 100 million-unit mask orders.” (16)

4.) Have the federal government sell, at a reduced price, its strategic stockpile to the new companies, run by your buddies. (6) (15)

5.) Have the states bid on the supplies, driving up the price. (7)

6.) Have the federal government spend taxpayer dollars to ship supplies purchased from China to these brand new private companies. (8)

7.) Eliminate the competition. Attack any company that doesn’t play ball. (9) ----- States are having to smuggle in supplies aboard sports teams jets, and escort them with state police (10). Is it really to this point that we're going to have to have states deploy the national guard to protect their shipments and supplies and treat the federal government like the enemy? This is no different from the Somalian government stealing food sent by the United Nations and cartels selling it illegally. (11) Except in this situation FEMA is the cartels and the banana republic is the United States.

Also regarding Trump removing the watchdog overseeing the $2 trillion coronavirus bill? In 1998 the Supreme Court ruled line item vetos are unconstitutional. (12) His excuse? The Take Care Clause. And the Take Care Clause just says the President can't make his underlings do stuff that's against the law. It underscores that the executive is under a duty to faithfully execute the laws of Congress and not disregard them. (13) If you don't know what that's about, Trump wrote a line item veto into the stimulus bill that he was going to ignore the oversight provisions in the bill and do it himself. (14)

Stitt is being audited for his Covid-19 spending
https://oklahoman.com/article/5661180/coronavirus-in-oklahoma-attorney-general-asks-for-audit-of-health-department

I thought it was more interesting from the perspective of fiscal responsibility and the "inside baseball" of what the state is doing to secure medical supplies. This may be too political though so feel free to delete the posts Pete.

That's very helpful. Could you do one showing hospitalizations?
Here’s the other two graphs.
1601716018

Thanks, Bill

Sweden’s model is interesting, but has also resulted in large numbers of elderly deaths: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html

Failure to do a good enough job protecting older people, especially past age 70, is the only major weakness of the Swedish policy. Stats show Oklahoma isn't do a very good job of it, either.

Numbers just updated for Wednesday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona042920a.jpg

Failure to do a good enough job protecting older people, especially past age 70, is the only major weakness of the Swedish policy. Stats show Oklahoma isn't do a very good job of it, either.

It's also worth pointing out that despite keeping things open, Sweden's economy has contracted as much as the U.S. And unfortunately, even if the U.S. wanted to, it couldn't mimic Sweden as their country trusts and relies on health experts, not politicians, to lead in the crisis. For example, the U.S. and Oklahoma have politicians who spread medical misinformation and then waste $2 million of taxpayer's money on drugs that medical experts said were unproven. So, it's unlikely the U.S. could follow Sweden's model.

I imagine Sweden's general population is much healthier than America's as well. Obesity is by far one of the biggest risks to Covid complications so it's hard to imagine we'd have as much success.

Failure to do a good enough job protecting older people, especially past age 70, is the only major weakness of the Swedish policy. Stats show Oklahoma isn't do a very good job of it, either.

Sweden is also one of the most educated places on earth. It is not teeming with Covidiots. The people there are actually following the government guidance. So, yeah, while their policy has not led to catastrophe, their citizens honor and respect what is asked of them, too, which is why they haven't had to result to broad mandates.

It will be interesting to see what Oklahomans start doing Friday given the way many of them have behaved when they were supposedly under government order to restrict their activities to essential ones.

Numbers just updated for Wednesday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona042920a.jpg


Pete, do you know why there is a lag in reporting deaths? No conspiracy here at all I'm sure, I'm just wondering why they wait to report deaths that occurred a week ago.

Pete, do you know why there is a lag in reporting deaths? No conspiracy here at all I'm sure, I'm just wondering why they wait to report deaths that occurred a week ago.

Doesn't it take a bit to determine true cause of death? I mean, just because someone has Covid-19, it doesn't mean that is what killed them. Unless we are just saying anyone who has it and dies, dies due to Covid-19, regardless.

Pete, do you know why there is a lag in reporting deaths? No conspiracy here at all I'm sure, I'm just wondering why they wait to report deaths that occurred a week ago.
This was on KFOR.com yesterday along with the daily stat reporting:

“Authorities say all of the patients died between April 22 and April 26.

Officials with the Oklahoma State Department of Health tell KFOR that experts must gather several pieces of information in order to classify a death as related to COVID-19.

“We can have a death reported to us, but with missing information that we have to gather or the reporting entity can have a delay in reporting the info to OSDH as well. All that is to say, no one is artificially inflating or deflating any numbers, it is there are quite a few “boxes” to check before we can officially report a death attributed to Covid-19 and that process along with delays in reporting can mean that it’s not possible to officially report a death within 24 hours of that death occurring, although every effort is made to do so,” Shelley Zumwalt, with OMES and working on behalf of the Oklahoma State Department of Health, said in an email.”

Those many “boxes to check” might help explain how death numbers and their causes don’t seem to add up. Not necessarily nefarious, just incomplete and/or inaccurate.

U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Is Far Higher Than Reported, C.D.C. Data Suggests

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

Any food prep business where masks aren't required by their owners - especially one like Braum`s won't get my business right now..... law or not.

I haven't been out too much. I know chick-fil-a is wearing mask and Mcdonald's What are business that are not? Maybe this could be it's own tread?

Just got an email from Costco and it sounds like they will require all customers and employees to wear masks for the foreseeable future.

Just got an email from Costco and it sounds like they will require all customers and employees to wear masks for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully this is the way most businesses go. This is even more about protecting the employees than it is about the customers.

Went to the Costco webpage to get the specifics:


Face Mask Requirements
To protect our members and employees, effective May 4, all Costco members and guests must wear a mask or face covering that covers the mouth and nose at all times while at Costco. This requirement does not apply to children under the age of 2 or to individuals who are unable to wear a mask or face covering due to a medical condition.

The use of a mask or face covering should not be seen as a substitute for social distancing. Please continue to observe rules regarding appropriate distancing while on Costco premises. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

Hopefully this is the way most businesses go. This is even more about protecting the employees than it is about the customers.

Will they provide masks at entrance?

Will they provide masks at entrance?

They didn't say so, so I assume the answer is no.

Our Bank is reopening our lobby next week, and we are required to wear masks anytime we're outside of our personal offices, including interacting with customers. We've ordered masks for all employees and are encouraging clients to wear their own or use what we have. It sounds like this will be the new normal for the foreseeable future.

Just got an email from Costco and it sounds like they will require all customers and employees to wear masks for the foreseeable future.

Mike Pence will have to go to Sam's I guess...

Went to the Costco webpage to get the specifics:

This is a good rule. I still can't believe how few people are wearing masks in public.

Press release:

*************

New proclamation issued in Oklahoma City’s COVID-19 response; addresses distancing, sanitizing requirements for new phase beginning May 1
04/29/2020

Mayor David Holt signed a new emergency proclamation for Oklahoma City’s COVID-19 response that includes required conditions on high-risk activities that are intended to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

This proclamation follows Mayor Holt’s announcement last Friday that he will largely align this new phase of Oklahoma City’s COVID-19 response with the State of Oklahoma’s OURS Plan.

The proclamation takes effect May 1. Its provisions will be re-evaluated no later than May 15. White House and State of Oklahoma guidelines require this phase to last at least two weeks. Based on public health data, it could potentially enter another phase at the conclusion of that two-week period.

“If we are to move into a new phase of our pandemic response, we should resolve to do so with conditions in place that limit the spread of this virus,” said Mayor Holt. “These social distancing and sanitizing protocols for the highest-risk activities have been vetted by our local public health officials and they represent common sense. There are many other best practices in state and national guidelines that we also encourage businesses to adopt, but the ones in the proclamations are not suggestions, they are requirements. Meanwhile, we continue to urge all residents to social distance, wash hands and wear masks in public to protect yourself and others.”

Visit covid19.okc.gov for the latest local COVID-19 news, guidance and City services updates.


General information
All social gatherings of more than 10 people are still prohibited, in keeping with White House guidelines.

A social gathering is defined as people coming together for socialization at a central point with specific people who don’t live in their household. The definition of a gathering does not include people in a location independently performing work as part of employment, people independently or in groups of 10 or fewer patronizing a business or open facility, or performing disaster relief work.

City-owned and publicly accessible playgrounds, basketball courts and outdoor exercise stations are still closed. People using other City-owned sports fields and courts must stay at least 6 feet away from people outside their household.

Mayor Holt and public health officials strongly encourage everyone to stay home when they can, and encourage employers to continue teleworking where possible. Without a vaccine or proven treatment, COVID-19 still presents a danger to our community. Residents are asked to wash your hands often, keep your distance, and wear a cloth face covering when in public, like when shopping for groceries and engaging in other critical errands. Click here for a guide on how to make a mask at home.

Most businesses, including places of worship, may open their doors on May 1, if they choose. Certain high-risk activities must adopt social distancing and sanitizing requirements.

Bars without on-premises food service, night clubs, hookah bars, cigar bars, vaping lounges and the Remington Park gaming area will remain closed to the public.



Food service
Restaurants, bars with on-premises food service, breweries, wineries, taverns, shopping mall food courts, food halls, cafeterias and similar food service establishments are required to maintain at least the following standards to limit the spread of the virus:

Employees’ temperatures should be checked each day either by the employee or their employer. Employees with a fever of 100.4 degrees or should not be at the facility.
Servers and staff interacting with customers must wear a face mask or covering.
Tables for seating must be at least 6 feet apart.
Menus must be single-use or capable of being sanitized with antimicrobial disinfectants after each use.
Condiment bottles must be sanitized after each table change, or served in a single-use packet, disposable container or washable dish.
Service at buffets and salad bars must be provided by an employee only.
Tables, chairs and objects needed to complete a purchase must be sanitized with antimicrobial disinfectants after each use.
No parties of 10 or more are allowed at one table in the dining area, unless they are household family members.



Personal care services
Hair and nail salons, barber shops, cosmetology facilities, esthetician facilities, laser hair removal facilities, spas, massage facilities, tattoo parlors and piercing facilities must follow U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) sanitizing protocols and comply with at least the following standards:

Customers may be seen by appointment only.
Employees’ temperatures should be checked each day either by the employee or their employer. Employees with a fever of 100.4 degrees or should not be at the facility.
Employees must use face masks or coverings.
Disposable face masks must be offered to all customers who don’t have their own mask.
All chairs and tools must be sanitized using antimicrobial disinfectants between customers.
While receiving services, customers must remain at least 6 feet away from other customers.


Gyms and other athletic facilities
All athletic gyms, recreation centers, exercise facilities, indoor sports facilities, indoor climbing facilities, bowling alleys, skating rinks, trampoline parks and similar facilities must maintain strict social distancing, CDC sanitizing protocols and maintain these standards:

Employees’ temperatures should be checked each day either by the employee or their employer. Employees with a fever of 100.4 degrees or should not be at the facility.
Employees that have contact with the public must wear face masks or coverings.
Doorknobs, gates, counters and other high-touch surfaces should be regularly cleaned and sanitized with antimicrobial disinfectants.
Locker rooms and bathrooms, particularly high-touch surfaces, must be cleaned and sanitized regularly and have hand-washing supplies.
Hand-washing or hand sanitizing supplies must be available for employees and customers.
Rental and shared equipment must be cleaned and sanitized by the customer or an employee between each use using antimicrobial disinfectants.


Entertainment and places of worship
Movie and live theaters, concert halls, bingo halls, sporting venues, amusement parks, places of worship and other businesses where people gather for presentation or entertainment must maintain strict social distancing, CDC sanitizing protocols and comply with at least the following standards:

Employees’ temperatures should be checked each day either by the employee or their employer. Employees with a fever of 100.4 degrees or should not be at the facility.
Offer seating in a staggered manner with at least two seats between customer groups in the same row. Every other row must be closed.
Customer groups must be limited to no more than 10 people, unless they’re household family members.
All food service must comply with the requirements for food service, which are listed above.

Mike Pence will have to go to Sam's I guess...

My rule moving forward will be to not frequent a place if they require face masks. I also will not allow contact tracing on my phone. I’m good with just staying home.

My rule moving forward will be to not frequent a place if they require face masks. I also will not allow contact tracing on my phone. I’m good with just staying home.

May I ask why you won't go someplace if they require face coverings?

This is a good rule. I still can't believe how few people are wearing masks in public.

I'm most surprised some of the older people aren't wearing masks.

I'm most surprised some of the older people aren't wearing masks.
The reason to wear a mask is to prevent YOU from spreading a virus. It's why we put masks on suspected TB patients, to protect others.
Not wearing a mask essentially says "I don't care about anybody else on the planet".

May I ask why you won't go someplace if they require face coverings?

Because I find them a hassle to deal with. If it is not safe enough to go places without them, then I will just stay home.

Because I find them a hassle to deal with. If it is not safe enough to go places without them, then I will just stay home.

Well, staying home is the safest thing you can do so I can’t argue with that. Having said that, we’ve made masks and, like most things, it’s more a hassle at first. You get used to it.

Well, staying home is the safest thing you can do so I can’t argue with that. Having said that, we’ve made masks and, like most things, it’s more a hassle at first. You get used to it.

The city of Stillwater was giving away homemade masks outside in front of the police station. They were voluntarily make with sewing machines.

Speaking of masks. So my wife and I have absolutely no sewing skills, but a few folks have made us some cloth masks and dropped them off. However, none of them fit very well. They're way too large for my wife to wear comfortable and too small for my fat head. Anyone seen any good designs that have some adjustability or might be more comfortable they could recommend?

In short, I believe so.

"Why Telling People They Don’t Need Masks Backfired (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html)" by Zeynep Tufekci



She provides a lot more reasons and hyperlinks in the article, but the short answer seems to be, yes. Masks help at least some if you going to be around other people.

Ed Yong argues that it's more complex and sites numerous studies (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/). I've found Tufekci's arguments sound from the beginning.

Finally got time to read some more and here's what I've found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-masks.html - "surgical" below does not mean "homemade"

It is of course true that masks don’t work perfectly, that they don’t replace hand-washing and social distancing, and that they work better if they fit properly. And of course, surgical masks (the disposable type that surgeons wear) don’t filter out small viral particles the way medical-grade respirator masks rated N95 and above do. However, even surgical masks protect a bit more than not wearing masks at all.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0195670113000698 - ditto

Live influenza virus was measurable from the air behind all surgical masks tested. The data indicate that a surgical mask will reduce exposure to aerosolised infectious influenza virus; reductions ranged from 1.1- to 55-fold (average 6-fold), depending on the design of the mask.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/coronavirus-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

A few studies suggest that homemade cloth masks are less effective than proper medical ones, but are still better than nothing. In one experiment, a surgical mask filtered 89 percent of viral particles from volunteers’ coughs, a tea towel blocked 72 percent, and a cotton T-shirt blocked 50 percent.** In general, thicker materials are better than thinner ones, Marr said, and a tight fit across the face is important. If people use makeshift masks, they should thoroughly wash them afterward. And most of all, they should remember that homemade masks are not fully protective. They’re a last-ditch measure to be used in situations when social distancing isn’t possible. “It’s not like ‘I’m wearing [a mask] and now I can talk to everyone,’” Bourouiba said.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/disaster-medicine-and-public-health-preparedness/article/testing-the-efficacy-of-homemade-masks-would-they-protect-in-an-influenza-pandemic/0921A05A69A9419C862FA2F35F819D55

Our findings suggest that a homemade mask should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18612429/

All types of masks reduced aerosol exposure, relatively stable over time, unaffected by duration of wear or type of activity, but with a high degree of individual variation. Personal respirators were more efficient than surgical masks, which were more efficient than home-made masks. Regardless of mask type, children were less well protected. Outward protection (mask wearing by a mechanical head) was less effective than inward protection (mask wearing by healthy volunteers).

https://maskfaq.com/ lists many materials that have been tested.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/best-coronavirus-face-mask-materials-new-study_l_5e99b576c5b6a92100e63129 does the same.

From what I'm getting, homemade masks just don't do much at all, last resort, better than nothing, that sort of thing. Some of the links above list surgical masks, but those aren't the homemade ones that just look like official surgical masks. I still think that we don't know enough to know if homemade masks are truly effective at preventing the spread of this virus. Official surgical masks, yes, to a good degree. N95 masks, absolutely.

My huge problem with homemade-mask-wearers is that they now seem to think they're invulnerable and not subject to social distancing. Most homemade masks don't have a tight enough fit, may not be worn properly, may be adjusted by hand while wearing them (therefore possibly contaminating them), etc. I personally saw idiots wearing thin scarves tied around their heads (of course, it was open from where they tied it downwards, and with no nose wire, it wasn't tight there either) getting up almost next to other people in the grocery store.

TLDR question..., since I have read a number of articles about masks, Don’t all of these approach mask effectiveness from protecting the wearer from outside airborne contamination as opposed to the current purpose stated time and time again, preventing the wearer from contaminating others, particularly with sneezes and coughs? I have to believe coughing and sneezing into just about any material is vastly more effective than blowing germs straight out into air.

TLDR question..., since I have read a number of articles about masks, Don’t all of these approach mask effectiveness from protecting the wearer from outside airborne contamination as opposed to the current purpose stated time and time again, preventing the wearer from contaminating others, particularly with sneezes and coughs? I have to believe coughing and sneezing into just about any material is vastly more effective than blowing germs straight out into air.

A lot of studies consider both - some of the links I posted do tests both ways. And yes, if you sneeze or cough into any material (including your elbow or shoulder if you're not wearing a mask), there will be less aerosol and droplets. If you're not sneezing or coughing and breathing normally, the efficacy of homemade masks seems to be pretty low.

A lot of studies consider both - some of the links I posted do tests both ways. And yes, if you sneeze or cough into any material (including your elbow or shoulder if you're not wearing a mask), there will be less aerosol and droplets. If you're not sneezing or coughing and breathing normally, the efficacy of homemade masks seems to be pretty low.

Long story short, we’re much better off being in public where everyone wears a mask made out of just about anything than otherwise.

Numbers just updated for Thursday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona043020a.jpg

Long story short, we’re much better off being in public where everyone wears a mask made out of just about anything than otherwise.

If people were wearing masks made out of materials that do decent filtering, fit properly, are not adjusted while wearing them, and adhering to social distancing, yes. Otherwise, maybe, maybe not. As I said in my earlier post:

My huge problem with homemade-mask-wearers is that they now seem to think they're invulnerable and not subject to social distancing. Most homemade masks don't have a tight enough fit, may not be worn properly, may be adjusted by hand while wearing them (therefore possibly contaminating them), etc. I personally saw idiots wearing thin scarves tied around their heads (of course, it was open from where they tied it downwards, and with no nose wire, it wasn't tight there either) getting up almost next to other people in the grocery store.

If people were wearing masks made out of materials that do decent filtering, fit properly, are not adjusted while wearing them, and adhering to social distancing, yes. Otherwise, maybe, maybe not. As I said in my earlier post:

My huge problem with homemade-mask-wearers is that they now seem to think they're invulnerable and not subject to social distancing. Most homemade masks don't have a tight enough fit, may not be worn properly, may be adjusted by hand while wearing them (therefore possibly contaminating them), etc. I personally saw idiots wearing thin scarves tied around their heads (of course, it was open from where they tied it downwards, and with no nose wire, it wasn't tight there either) getting up almost next to other people in the grocery store.

Are they idiots because that is all they have? At least they are making an effort and aren't the actual idiots who aren't wearing anything at all.

If people were wearing masks made out of materials that do decent filtering, fit properly, are not adjusted while wearing them, and adhering to social distancing, yes. Otherwise, maybe, maybe not. As I said in my earlier post:

My huge problem with homemade-mask-wearers is that they now seem to think they're invulnerable and not subject to social distancing. Most homemade masks don't have a tight enough fit, may not be worn properly, may be adjusted by hand while wearing them (therefore possibly contaminating them), etc. I personally saw idiots wearing thin scarves tied around their heads (of course, it was open from where they tied it downwards, and with no nose wire, it wasn't tight there either) getting up almost next to other people in the grocery store.

Still better than them doing that without masks of any kind, which they are and will continue to do. Since we’re sharing anecdotes, here’s one. I went to Best Buy parking lot pick up a couple of weeks ago. Checked in on the app. Popped my trunk. Never got out of the car, expect they would put my item in the trunk. I did not have a mask on. A worker came out without a mask, came to my window, which I rolled down. She stepped in way too close to ask my name since their system was down. She told me to pull up to the curb and they would bring it out.

After I moved, still in my car, I put on my mask. They loaded the item and she again came to my window but stood back 15’ the second time because, duh, masks and social distancing.

Another big spike, largest spike in 3 weeks (145), that is not good. Stitt might of jumped the gun, lifting the shelter in place order. More cases will result in more deaths.

Another big spike, largest spike in 3 weeks (145), that is not good. Stitt might of jumped the gun, lifting the shelter in place order. More cases will result in more deaths.

We'll have to see how it holds day to day. Just quickly putting together 7 day totals over the past month I got the following.

4/24 - 4/30
Positive 601 (85 per day)
Hospitalized 93
Deaths 43

4/17 - 4/23
Positive 660 (94 per day)
Hospitalized 94
Deaths 48

4/10 - 4/16
Positive 673 (96 per day)
Hospitalized 113
Deaths 51

4/3 - 4/9
Positive 805 (115 per day)
Hospitalized 158
Deaths 46

My fat fingers could have missed something so I'm sure someone will correct me if my counts are off. Even with expanded testing I'm not seeing any sort of course correction yet. Another week or two we'll have more data to see if it's going to change direction much.

We'll have to see how it holds day to day. Just quickly putting together 7 day totals over the past month I got the following.

4/24 - 4/30
Positive 601 (85 per day)
Hospitalized 93
Deaths 43

4/17 - 4/23
Positive 660 (94 per day)
Hospitalized 94
Deaths 48

4/10 - 4/16
Positive 673 (96 per day)
Hospitalized 113
Deaths 51

4/3 - 4/9
Positive 805 (115 per day)
Hospitalized 158
Deaths 46

My fat fingers could have missed something so I'm sure someone will correct me if my counts are off. Even with expanded testing I'm not seeing any sort of course correction yet. Another week or two we'll have more data to see if it's going to change direction much.
I’m sure it’s somewhere but I can’t find stats for number of tests per day. I’d be curious how many more rests were done during 4/24 to 4/30 than there were on 4/3 to 4/9 or more so for weeks in March. If they’re doing say, 20 percent more testing than a month ago and the average numbers are still going down then somethings going right.

My huge problem with homemade-mask-wearers is that they now seem to think they're invulnerable and not subject to social distancing.

In other words, people should wear masks and continue practice social distancing whenever possible. The latter is not a mask problem, but an education problem. We need more education on proper mask wearing and what mask wearing does/does NOT do.

Another big spike, largest spike in 3 weeks (145), that is not good. Stitt might of jumped the gun, lifting the shelter in place order. More cases will result in more deaths.

Of course, the point experts have been making is that in addition to more suffering and deaths, opening too quickly could backfire and actually cause more economic harm long term. That's the question I've been asking, are you sure opening sooner is good for the economy?

In other words, people should wear masks and continue practice social distancing whenever possible. The latter is not a mask problem, but an education problem. We need more education on proper mask wearing and what mask wearing does/does NOT do.

Yes, absolutely, that was my main point. ALONG WITH doing all the other right things, homemade masks *might* help. But having lived in for over half a century, I don't put much trust in most people getting educated or doing the right thing. :)

Press release:

*************
OKC Golf public courses to open Friday
04/30/2020

The City of Oklahoma City will open OKC Golf’s public golf courses on Friday, May 1, after the “Shelter in Place” emergency order expires.

A new emergency proclamation taking effect Friday includes requirements for high-risk activities that are intended to limit the spread of the coronavirus, but public golf courses are allowed to re-open. They’ve been closed during most of COVID-19 pandemic.

“We have thoroughly disinfected and cleaned our facilities since they were closed in March, particularly golf carts and our more heavily trafficked areas,” said OKC Parks Director Doug Kupper. “We will follow U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines to thoroughly clean and disinfect our facilities daily to protect against transmission of the coronavirus.”

Precautions for sanitizing and physical distancing for golfers will be in place. Soap and water or hand sanitizer will be available at restrooms, restaurants and pro shop counters. Other precautions include:

Tee times will be every 10 minutes. Groups are limited to a maximum of five players, but groups of four or fewer are encouraged.
Holes on practice putting greens will be at least 15 feet apart.
Payments for green fees will take place outdoors in front of the pro shop, by credit or debit card only. No cash.
No more than 9 people, including staff, will be allowed in pro shops or restaurants.
Plexiglass barriers will be placed at cashier stations.
In areas where lines may form, there will be markers six feet apart showing people where to stand.
Golf carts will be disinfected after each use. One rider per cart, unless riders are from the same household.
Only one group at a time is allowed in any teeing area. Players waiting their turn must stay at least 30 feet from the tee box. Continuous putting is encouraged to prevent standing in groups near the hole.
Rakes have been removed.
Water coolers have been removed.
Restaurants are following all requirements of the City’s emergency proclamation.
On-course restrooms will be open and have sanitizer. Restrooms in clubhouses will have a restriction on the number of people allowed inside at one time.


For more information on OKC’s public golf courses, visit okcgolf.com.

Of course, the point experts have been making is that in addition to more suffering and deaths, opening too quickly could backfire and actually cause more economic harm long term. That's the question I've been asking, are you sure opening sooner is good for the economy?

Could, Could, Could....favorite words of the Coronavirus breakfast club. You COULD go outside and not get it all, or COULD get it and it COULD not be too bad. You COULD realize that acting like 90% of the world is supposed to baby the other 10%, whom are so scared, they are buying Depends for themselves. The key word is COULD. Look, you're a smart dude. Life goes on, maybe not for all of us, but life goes on.

Press release:

*************
OKC Golf public courses to open Friday
04/30/2020

The City of Oklahoma City will open OKC Golf’s public golf courses on Friday, May 1, after the “Shelter in Place” emergency order expires.

A new emergency proclamation taking effect Friday includes requirements for high-risk activities that are intended to limit the spread of the coronavirus, but public golf courses are allowed to re-open. They’ve been closed during most of COVID-19 pandemic.

“We have thoroughly disinfected and cleaned our facilities since they were closed in March, particularly golf carts and our more heavily trafficked areas,” said OKC Parks Director Doug Kupper. “We will follow U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidelines to thoroughly clean and disinfect our facilities daily to protect against transmission of the coronavirus.”

Precautions for sanitizing and physical distancing for golfers will be in place. Soap and water or hand sanitizer will be available at restrooms, restaurants and pro shop counters. Other precautions include:

Tee times will be every 10 minutes. Groups are limited to a maximum of five players, but groups of four or fewer are encouraged.
Holes on practice putting greens will be at least 15 feet apart.
Payments for green fees will take place outdoors in front of the pro shop, by credit or debit card only. No cash.
No more than 9 people, including staff, will be allowed in pro shops or restaurants.
Plexiglass barriers will be placed at cashier stations.
In areas where lines may form, there will be markers six feet apart showing people where to stand.
Golf carts will be disinfected after each use. One rider per cart, unless riders are from the same household.
Only one group at a time is allowed in any teeing area. Players waiting their turn must stay at least 30 feet from the tee box. Continuous putting is encouraged to prevent standing in groups near the hole.
Rakes have been removed.
Water coolers have been removed.
Restaurants are following all requirements of the City’s emergency proclamation.
On-course restrooms will be open and have sanitizer. Restrooms in clubhouses will have a restriction on the number of people allowed inside at one time.


For more information on OKC’s public golf courses, visit okcgolf.com.

Anyone know if this includes disc golf?

Could, Could, Could....favorite words of the Coronavirus breakfast club. You COULD go outside and not get it all, or COULD get it and it COULD not be too bad. You COULD realize that acting like 90% of the world is supposed to baby the other 10%, whom are so scared, they are buying Depends for themselves. The key word is COULD. Look, you're a smart dude. Life goes on, maybe not for all of us, but life goes on.

I'm not totally sure what your point is here, but it seems implied you want to open everything up, accept that a ton of people will die, and go the herd immunity strategy. The only way to walk the walk on this stance with integrity is to get COVID-19 on purpose and be part of that plan. That would either end with you most likely having immunity and being able to live your life without harming the health of others, but there's a small chance you could get ill or die. Barring a miracle vaccine, that's the logical conclusion of that view. Yet, I haven't seen anyone step up to the plate. Dan Patrick, for example, talks tough about older people sacrificing their lives, but he hasn't stepped up to the plate to get COVID-19. I'm guessing he's wearing DEPENDS while he talks big.

I'm not totally sure what your point is here, but it seems implied you want to open everything up, accept that a ton of people will die, and go the herd immunity strategy. The only way to walk the walk on this stance with integrity is to get COVID-19 on purpose and be part of that plan. That would either end with you most likely having immunity and being able to live your life without harming the health of others, but there's a small chance you could get ill or die. Barring a miracle vaccine, that's the logical conclusion of that view. Yet, I haven't seen anyone step up to the plate. Dan Patrick, for example, talks tough about older people sacrificing their lives, but he hasn't stepped up to the plate to get COVID-19. I'm guessing he's wearing DEPENDS while he talks big.

I honestly don't think a ton of people will die (or would have died) if they had simply locked down the older populations or those with major pre-existing problems. Just my opinion. Shutting everything down for everybody hindered this economy, and probably is what will lead to a spike, since there was not a gradual increase, as there possibly would have been if everything were normal, for those with normal immune systems.