View Full Version : Covid-19 in OKC (coronavirus)




jn1780
04-17-2020, 08:26 PM
Immunity cards will just encourage people to get infected on purpose. Especially the more desperate they become. Its silly argument anyway, it would take a long time to build out that infrastructure. Want to know when the lockdowns end? When the unemployment checks start bouncing. You can't print food, doctors, police, etc. Italy and Spain are slowing opening up their economies already. You can't tell they are anywhere close to meeting the criteria. Their starting to get desperate.

mugofbeer
04-17-2020, 10:11 PM
What about people who do not have pockets. Maybe an armband or lanyard?

They're going to take our precious bodily fluids! :tongue:

Teo9969
04-17-2020, 10:30 PM
Here is the problem... It will become political and half of the customers will be offended either way. The businesses are in a catch 2020.

I'd prefer to stay away from catching and 2020, thank you kindly.

PhiAlpha
04-17-2020, 10:44 PM
Immunity cards will just encourage people to get infected on purpose. Especially the more desperate they become. Its silly argument anyway, it would take a long time to build out that infrastructure. Want to know when the lockdowns end? When the unemployment checks start bouncing. You can't print food, doctors, police, etc. Italy and Spain are slowing opening up their economies already. You can't tell they are anywhere close to meeting the criteria. Their starting to get desperate.

Yeah...people will start rioting if we get to that point. The protests are already starting and its only going to get worse the longer we go without a definitive timeline and the more desperate people get.

mugofbeer
04-17-2020, 10:59 PM
Immunity cards will just encourage people to get infected on purpose. Especially the more desperate they become. Its silly argument anyway, it would take a long time to build out that infrastructure. Want to know when the lockdowns end? When the unemployment checks start bouncing. You can't print food, doctors, police, etc. Italy and Spain are slowing opening up their economies already. You can't tell they are anywhere close to meeting the criteria. Their starting to get desperate.

Hey, if treatments are out there to keep the patient from dying, it may be better to go ahead and get it. Its like chicken pox, measles and mumps when l was a kid - one of my siblings got it so my Mom had her infect the rest of us so we'd all be sick at once.

SSEiYah
04-17-2020, 11:33 PM
Mathis brothers parking lot looked fairly packed this afternoon.

I went to Home Depot/Crest/Homeland today. Far NW locations near Rockwell Ave. Ballpark, I'd say 1/3 were wearing masks at both grocery stores but only 1/5 of folks at Home Depot. The whole "everyone wear masks" thing is still a ways out.

Granted, if masks were readily available, I think more folks would wear them, but not everyone unless there is a City-wide thing put in place. I managed to get my order of 50 KN95 masks from Alibaba, but I would not expect the same results for everyone. The vendor I bought mine from appears to have been removed from Alibaba. Ordering from Alibaba is still a bit of a pain and not a lot of recourse if stuff gets seized by customs for example.

soonerguru
04-18-2020, 02:53 AM
It seems as if Trump is abdicating the federal government's role in executing significant testing on a national level. Even if states were to relax restrictions, people do not feel safe to go to restaurants, stores, concerts, and other gatherings. As a nation, we have enough nukes to liquefy the planet many times over with a virtually limitless military budget. We put people on the moon. So, why are we being led to believe we cannot mass produce the volume of tests necessary to test our people? The president has the full power of the federal government to ramp up mass production of tests, using the emergency powers granted to him by both houses of Congress. Why is he arguing with governors of states and saying it is their job? Come on! We need tens (or even hundreds) of millions of tests produced and a plan to trace infections. The president has an almost limitless budget to get this done (and states do not)! If we can send everyone a check can we not schedule everyone for a test? We need mass testing. Once we have that, we can trace and isolate those who are infected, clear the virus, and only then will the public feel confident to return to department stores, malls, restaurants, and sporting events. Until that occurs, we will live in a lingering purgatory of inconsistent social distancing policy, rudderless political argument, and the vast majority of folks staying the f at home because they are inherently smart enough to know that they don't want to get sick and die. A politician cannot magically wave a wand and "reopen the economy," because people know better and will not rejoin public gatherings until they believe they are safe.

soonerguru
04-18-2020, 03:47 AM
For multiple tests, who's paying for it? I'm fine with everyone getting tested multiple times voluntarily and I think enough tests should be available so that anyone that wants one/needs one can get it done but I don't think being tested should be required by the government (except maybe for state and government employees). If a company wants to require it before allowing you back to work...go for it. If hospitals and long-term care facilities want to require that you be tested...sure. If/when a vaccine is developed...apply it in the same way that mandatory vaccinations are now...it's required to go to school, etc. Otherwise treat it like the flu shot and highly encourage people to get it...I think most people will happily volunteer to get it after all this.

If you had COVID-19 would you be opposed to being quarantined for 14-21 days? I would assume not. Now, let's suppose you have a job that would not allow you to quarantine ( I know this is not the type of job you would have ). Most Americans would lose their jobs under such circumstances. So, the solution is fairly simple. Just ask everyone to get tested, with some type of fiduciary incentive. If they test positive, the US Government will pay their employer for the amount of time they are quarantined. If they do not have a job, pay them a set amount of $$$. As expensive as this sounds, it is way cheaper than the utterly disastrous rescue/stimulus thing that just happened, which has left many businesses out in the cold and individuals wondering if they are on a government blacklist because they have received nothing and are on the verge of starvation. This is serious talk if you want to "reopen the economy."

soonerguru
04-18-2020, 04:17 AM
Yeah...people will start rioting if we get to that point. The protests are already starting and its only going to get worse the longer we go without a definitive timeline and the more desperate people get.

The "protests" are being funded by partisan political interests and are comparable to the "Tea Party" protests of 2010.

catcherinthewry
04-18-2020, 07:49 AM
The "protests" are being funded by partisan political interests and are comparable to the "Tea Party" protests of 2010.

There's a political thread for this. This thread needs to be based on science and facts.

chuck5815
04-18-2020, 07:50 AM
The "protests" are being funded by partisan political interests and are comparable to the "Tea Party" protests of 2010.

Oh really? And I suppose Vince Foster landed a Black Helicopter during the Penn Square Protest?

dankrutka
04-18-2020, 09:48 AM
I just don't see any situation in which something like that, any kind of tracking app, or system that will be seen as a restriction on freedom or invasion on privacy will ever be widely accepted or adopted here. I sure as hell know I don't want anything like that on my phone and would scream from the rooftops if I wasn't allowed to enter a store or anything else because I HADN'T contracted the virus. F*** anything like that.

I am about the biggest privacy/personal data advocate you’ll find. I’ve been arguing more states following the EU and California’s lead in limiting personal data extraction and tracking. And, still, I believe coronavirus tracing apps have to be part of the solution. It can save lives and businesses. It can also be built with certain limitations... thatzz so what we should fight for.

Jersey Boss
04-18-2020, 10:20 AM
Knowing the stories my mom told me of the sacrafices she and countless others made on the home front during WW2, I shake my head at the indignation some express for any type of inconvenience.

Pete
04-18-2020, 11:19 AM
Updated for Saturday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona041820a.jpg

Bill Robertson
04-18-2020, 12:10 PM
Mathis brothers parking lot looked fairly packed this afternoon.

I went to Home Depot/Crest/Homeland today. Far NW locations near Rockwell Ave. Ballpark, I'd say 1/3 were wearing masks at both grocery stores but only 1/5 of folks at Home Depot. The whole "everyone wear masks" thing is still a ways out.

Granted, if masks were readily available, I think more folks would wear them, but not everyone unless there is a City-wide thing put in place. I managed to get my order of 50 KN95 masks from Alibaba, but I would not expect the same results for everyone. The vendor I bought mine from appears to have been removed from Alibaba. Ordering from Alibaba is still a bit of a pain and not a lot of recourse if stuff gets seized by customs for example.I went to the same Homeland and then the nearby Walmart Neighborhood Market this morning early. At neither were there more than maybe 20% of us wearing masks of any kind. N95 masks may not be readily available but there are tons of make your own videos and such on the internet. I’m a believer that anything beats absolutely nothing. At Homeland a guy came right up to me waving a 4 pack of beer he was amazed to find there and practically yelling at me “You should try this stuff, it’s great”. One note on Walmart. Their paper goods isle was fully stocked. In fact except for cleaning sprays, wipes, etc. the store was pretty much normally stocked up.

kukblue1
04-18-2020, 12:47 PM
These numbers a really a joke. 105 new cases out of how many test? Conditions of those that died?

Bill Robertson
04-18-2020, 02:47 PM
I just read a story on KOCO’s site about pastors being upset about Gov Stitt talking about churches reopening May 3 and that being too soon. If a pastor thinks that’s too soon don’t open. If a member doesn’t feel safe yet don’t go. I’m thinking we’re in for a few weeks/months of a range of everything from protests or worse demanding things open back up to “It’s too soon, you can’t open up yet!”, it’ll be disastrous. It’s going to be interesting.

RustytheBailiff
04-18-2020, 03:45 PM
These numbers a really a joke. 105 new cases out of how many test? Conditions of those that died?

What an insensitive remark. The condition of those that died is that they are no longer breathing.

rezman
04-18-2020, 03:45 PM
I think people might be fine with it if we were guaranteed that the Rockefellian Barcodes would go away at some point. Problem is, you can't give a government (even an alleged democratic one) a fun, new power and expect the government to just give it back once the crisis has passed.

We would be letting the Genie out of the proverbial bottle.

You can also look at it this way. You can’t give up your freedoms and expect the government to give them back to you.

Plutonic Panda
04-18-2020, 03:53 PM
I just read a story on KOCO’s site about pastors being upset about Gov Stitt talking about churches reopening May 3 and that being too soon. If a pastor thinks that’s too soon don’t open. If a member doesn’t feel safe yet don’t go. I’m thinking we’re in for a few weeks/months of a range of everything from protests or worse demanding things open back up to “It’s too soon, you can’t open up yet!”, it’ll be disastrous. It’s going to be interesting.
So don’t go. If the pastors don’t want to perform a service then they don’t have to. At some point we need to start opening the economy back up and soon for those who are done watching the economy sink further and further.

I am seeing story after story about businesses that are on the brink of closing permanently. How many are being over dramatic or could easily reopen varies to the same degree that piece by KOCO selecting only pastors that don’t want to reopen so quick. Anecdotally, I personally know a handful and several of my friends are ready to start preaching in person services again. If you are worried about the virus then stay inside. Why do you have to force everyone to do it with you?

The virus is serious yes and I understand it. Keep concerts, fairs, festivals, etc. closed until 2021. Keep schools closed until the fall. Open everything else back up. This is ridiculous.

HangryHippo
04-18-2020, 04:21 PM
Forgive me, but what the hell do churches have to do with opening the economy back up?

TheTravellers
04-18-2020, 05:33 PM
... If you are worried about the virus then stay inside. Why do you have to force everyone to do it with you? ...

Because of the high contagion factor of this virus.

Plutonic Panda
04-18-2020, 05:41 PM
Because of the high contagion factor of this virus.
I get that but there are other factors like it not affecting 80 percent of people that get it. Those should be included too.

chuck5815
04-18-2020, 06:09 PM
Forgive me, but what the hell do churches have to do with opening the economy back up?

There are a handful of people that make very good Money in the Church Business.

Chaucer didn’t write the Canterbury Tales for no reason.

TheTravellers
04-18-2020, 06:39 PM
Was watching some Warren Zevon videos last night and came across this, great version with Neil Young, thought it was somewhat timely right now...


https://youtu.be/E3MNG11oynA

dankrutka
04-18-2020, 07:08 PM
You can also look at it this way. You can’t give up your freedoms and expect the government to give them back to you.

Yes, you can. This is such a silly argument. The government is not trying to "take our freedoms." They're responding to a pandemic and trying to keep people from dying. There have been, and always will be, necessary trade-offs and limits to freedoms. We all make these trade-offs every. single. day. In this case, exercising "your freedoms" can cause other people to die. We all should seek to preserve important freedoms, but if you don't know the proper times to sacrifice like this pandemic or during WWII then it's more about putting individual selfishness over welfare of others.

Bits_Of_Real_Panther
04-18-2020, 07:24 PM
Some people are demanding 1 marshmallow now. The others are okay with waiting and receiving 2 marshmallows later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

kukblue1
04-18-2020, 07:32 PM
What an insensitive remark. The condition of those that died is that they are no longer breathing.

Meant medical history. Only 8 people under 50 in the state of Oklahoma have died. I'm sure they know their medical history but that could be important on who it is effecting the most. I think the under 40 crowd should be out now and getting things going again. The death rate for under 40 is very very low. Go out use caution unless you have a medical condition that make you vulnerable. What is that medical condition?

brian72
04-18-2020, 07:46 PM
I am about the biggest privacy/personal data advocate you’ll find. I’ve been arguing more states following the EU and California’s lead in limiting personal data extraction and tracking. And, still, I believe coronavirus tracing apps have to be part of the solution. It can save lives and businesses. It can also be built with certain limitations... thatzz so what we should fight for. The problem is who runs the tracking part of it? The WHO? Our Goverment? When this happens the Crap will hit the fan.

rezman
04-18-2020, 08:04 PM
Yes, you can. This is such a silly argument. The government is not trying to "take our freedoms." They're responding to a pandemic and trying to keep people from dying. There have been, and always will be, necessary trade-offs and limits to freedoms. We all make these trade-offs every. single. day. In this case, exercising "your freedoms" can cause other people to die. We all should seek to preserve important freedoms, but if you don't know the proper times to sacrifice like this pandemic or during WWII then it's more about putting individual selfishness over welfare of others.

My statement stands. But I have to agree with you that we ALL have to make certain sacrifices to beat this together. That doesn’t mean we have to give up our freedoms. Just curtail how we do things for a while. My parents were survivors of the Great Depression, and WWII. I heard their stories and saw their frugalness as a result, so yes. What you say is true.

Bits_Of_Real_Panther
04-18-2020, 08:09 PM
Meant medical history. Only 8 people under 50 in the state of Oklahoma have died. I'm sure they know their medical history but that could be important on who it is effecting the most. I think the under 40 crowd should be out now and getting things going again. The death rate for under 40 is very very low. Go out use caution unless you have a medical condition that make you vulnerable. What is that medical condition?

Sounds like you are wanting a breakdown of #s by pre-existing conditions?
https://www.hopkinsguides.com/hopkins/repview?type=479-1130&name=2_538747_Standard

Bill Robertson
04-18-2020, 08:26 PM
The pre-existing condition thing is very difficult. I was an avid bicycle rider/racer from junior high to a few years ago. I've personally known three very healthy, very fit riders that died of coronaries while on leisurely Saturday or Sunday morning breakfast rides. One of which I was right there with him when it happened. None of them had any idea they had any heart issues but post-mortem investigations found issues they didn’t know they had. So I wonder if most or all of the “perfectly healthy” deaths from COVID had some kind of unknown issues.

Bits_Of_Real_Panther
04-18-2020, 08:42 PM
^ Yeah, it makes sense there is a subtlety that exists. There are vulnerable populations of seemingly healthy people who have never been diagnosed with any conditions.

Then a bike ride or Covid-19 comes along...

Canoe
04-18-2020, 08:57 PM
The old post removed by myself because it might be considered political. I have replaced it with the below comment.

Naturally I am against authoritarian policies because I do not have faith that the people using the additional power will do so responsibly.

I believe each person should take responsibility for himself, his family, and his community. He needs good information and from that point he will act in his own interest.

soonerguru
04-18-2020, 09:26 PM
The old post removed by myself because it might be considered political. I have replaced it with the below comment.

Naturally I am against authoritarian policies because I do not have faith that the people using the additional power will do so responsibly.

I believe each person should take responsibility for himself, his family, and his community. He needs good information and from that point he will act in his own interest.

Read up on Typhoid Mary to broaden your perspective a bit.

soonerguru
04-18-2020, 09:27 PM
This happened.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e9b473dc5b6ea335d5c6981?ncid=engmodushpmg00000 003&fbclid=IwAR3wIuiVPhsEIT-pIPiV8ZIhcNLtiXSXlIDWAn0rpGKyzTu94qpgnLyvREw

Bits_Of_Real_Panther
04-18-2020, 09:47 PM
The old post removed by myself because it might be considered political. I have replaced it with the below comment.

Naturally I am against authoritarian policies because I do not have faith that the people using the additional power will do so responsibly.

I believe each person should take responsibility for himself, his family, and his community. He needs good information and from that point he will act in his own interest.

The problem we are having is that when there is a public health crisis, your own interest must take a backseat, at least temporarily, to the interest of your fellow citizens, in a collective sense.

Bill Robertson
04-18-2020, 09:48 PM
I typed this and deleted it a couple of times before I decided to go ahead and post it. I’m not trying to be at all controversial. Just real. I’m asking for input on something I honestly can’t wrap my head around.
I keep hearing/reading testing, testing, testing. Will testing really be a relevant, useful tool unless we can test everyone, and I mean every single person, every couple of days? And compel (fines, jail) those who test positive to isolate until they test negative? Otherwise it seems to me that there is always going to be a possibility of contacting someone who has it. Also contact tracing. I’ve been VERY good about keeping my butt on the couch except for going to work, the grocery only as really necessary, the pharmacy and the gas station. And the only non- work place I actually go inside are the grocery stores. Even at that I couldn’t possibly list everyone I’ve been within 6 feet of in the past 14 days. I can’t help but feel like both testing and contract tracking are just the only lifelines to grab on to with no vaccine in sight. Therefor that’s what gets pushed as the answer.

OKC Guy
04-18-2020, 10:04 PM
I typed this and deleted it a couple of times before I decided to go ahead and post it. I’m not trying to be at all controversial. Just real. I’m asking for input on something I honestly can’t wrap my head around.
I keep hearing/reading testing, testing, testing. Will testing really be a relevant, useful tool unless we can test everyone, and I mean every single person, every couple of days? And compel (fines, jail) those who test positive to isolate until they test negative? Otherwise it seems to me that there is always going to be a possibility of contacting someone who has it. Also contact tracing. I’ve been VERY good about keeping my butt on the couch except for going to work, the grocery only as really necessary, the pharmacy and the gas station. And the only non- work place I actually go inside are the grocery stores. Even at that I couldn’t possibly list everyone I’ve been within 6 feet of in the past 14 days. I can’t help but feel like both testing and contract tracking are just the only lifelines to grab on to with no vaccine in sight. Therefor that’s what gets pushed as the answer.

Even if 340,000,000 Americans could be tested you have to test the whole world or else close all borders and flights and ships forever until its cured. It can never happen thus we need to start opening up the country and keep working on medical potentials.

Bits_Of_Real_Panther
04-18-2020, 10:23 PM
Public health is the most important thing right now.

Economy and right to be an individual is in 2nd place.

brian72
04-18-2020, 10:35 PM
Public health is the most important thing right now.

Economy and right to be an individual is in 2nd place. Good Luck with that.

mugofbeer
04-18-2020, 11:38 PM
Here's my current take. Once some sort of treatment can be developed that keeps people from dying if they get the virus, it seems to me it's inevitable that everyone is going to have to be exposed to it. Get it, develop the antibodies and move on. The key is controlling deaths.

David
04-19-2020, 01:06 AM
"Let everyone get it" has the problem of not knowing the long-term effects.

Take chicken pox as an example. Having it as a child means that later on in life you can develop shingles. I can tell you personal experience that that is not fun, and I was a young adult when I got to have that fun. For someone 60 or 70+ shingles can have a much more drastic health impact. This is one of the reasons why we're now vaccinating for chicken pox and not just letting kids have it as before.

What happens 20, 30 years after you have COVID-19? Who knows, but the best way to avoid that is to just not have it in the first place.

chuck5815
04-19-2020, 07:16 AM
"Let everyone get it" has the problem of not knowing the long-term effects.

Take chicken pox as an example. Having it as a child means that later on in life you can develop shingles. I can tell you personal experience that that is not fun, and I was a young adult when I got to have that fun. For someone 60 or 70+ shingles can have a much more drastic health impact. This is one of the reasons why we're now vaccinating for chicken pox and not just letting kids have it as before.

What happens 20, 30 years after you have COVID-19? Who knows, but the best way to avoid that is to just not have it in the first place.

That sounds great in theory, but it’s probably a bit unrealistic at this point, especially since the Learned Doctors are saying most folks will be cool-de-la:

For now, it appears most patients who have had mild symptoms can expect no lasting harm, experts said.
“For the vast majority of people who get the coronavirus, they’re not going to have any long-term consequences for it,” Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security in Baltimore and a spokesman for the Infectious Diseases Society of America, told TODAY.

Mott
04-19-2020, 09:02 AM
Forgive me, but what the hell do churches have to do with opening the economy back up?
Really! I guess the collection plates are empty.

Bill Robertson
04-19-2020, 09:14 AM
Forgive me, but what the hell do churches have to do with opening the economy back up?Directly very, very little to nothing. Indirectly for many of us successfully reopening churches will be a milestone that gives us a feeling of things moving toward an end to this mess. Getting back to church will open the door for many to feel able to shop, eat out, etc. which will re-open the economy.

David
04-19-2020, 09:29 AM
That sounds great in theory, but it’s probably a bit unrealistic at this point, especially since the Learned Doctors are saying most folks will be cool-de-la:

For now, it appears most patients who have had mild symptoms can expect no lasting harm, experts said.
“For the vast majority of people who get the coronavirus, they’re not going to have any long-term consequences for it,” Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security in Baltimore and a spokesman for the Infectious Diseases Society of America, told TODAY.

Sure, but just remember that that is a prediction based on at best data from other corona viruses but not this one in particular. We have no data for COVID-19 20 years on because of course we don't, and we won't know for actual certain until we get there.

Doctors lie all the time when they think it is in the interest of their patients or the public. Remember all the statements about how nobody but medical personnel needed to be wearing masks, right up until they did a 180 and everyone should be wearing them?

jonny d
04-19-2020, 09:41 AM
Sure, but just remember that that is a prediction based on at best data from other corona viruses but not this one in particular. We have no data for COVID-19 20 years on because of course we don't, and we won't know for actual certain until we get there.

Doctors lie all the time when they think it is in the interest of their patients or the public. Remember all the statements about how nobody but medical personnel needed to be wearing masks, right up until they did a 180 and everyone should be wearing them?

You use such harsh, negative language here, when just above, you talk about them having no data to work with. Which is it?

Edmond Hausfrau
04-19-2020, 09:48 AM
Some people are demanding 1 marshmallow now. The others are okay with waiting and receiving 2 marshmallows later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment

Ah, the ole marshmallow test. A favorite from the 1970s.
Of course , much like BF Skinner, the results were not purely behavioral. Factors like cognitive ability, socioeconomic status are also in play. Just as they are today. People in lower SES may not be able to afford to be "safer at home."
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/new-research-marshmallow-test-suggests-delayed-gratification-doesnt-equal-success-180969234/

David
04-19-2020, 10:35 AM
You use such harsh, negative language here, when just above, you talk about them having no data to work with. Which is it?

If they are making definitive predictions about long-term health impacts when we have no long-term data for them to base it off it, it's a mistruth at best. Maybe they'll be right, but they cannot know for certain at this time.

And my lie judgement was about the masks which is why it was in that paragraph, not the long-term impacts of the virus which I covered in the first paragraph. What other conclusion can be made about the flip-flop on whether masks should be worn by the general public? Either they were lying then or they are lying now.

HangryHippo
04-19-2020, 10:59 AM
Really! I guess the collection plates are empty.
You’re right! Should help with the taxes they pay.

OKC Talker
04-19-2020, 11:26 AM
Here's my current take. Once some sort of treatment can be developed that keeps people from dying if they get the virus, it seems to me it's inevitable that everyone is going to have to be exposed to it. Get it, develop the antibodies and move on. The key is controlling deaths.

It's impossible to know for sure because of the lack of testing, but current estimates are that 748k of the 328 million people in the United States have been infected with Covid-19, 66k have been hospitalized, and 13k have died. (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html#hospitalizations)

That means that the infection of 0.2% of the population has caused all this chaos and assuming we're really at the peak this will likely double in the next month. If we go with your "everyone is going to have to be exposed to it. Get it, develop the antibodies and move on." instead of the infection of 0.4% of the US population, those numbers will be closer to the worst case scenarios before the "flatten the curve" movement and all the lockdowns happened. Assuming that even 10% of the US population gets infected, people could literally be dying outside of hospitals waiting for a bed, somone will have to choose who gets life saving ventilators or miracle treatments that are still in testing, and the economy will completely crash. I'll let you crunch the numbers on how many people will be hospitalized and how many deaths that will mean if we completely "reopen the economy" with no restrictions and get 100% of the US population exposed, but I guarantee you it would be ugly.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/upshot/hospital-bed-shortages-coronavirus.html

PhiAlpha
04-19-2020, 12:05 PM
These numbers a really a joke. 105 new cases out of how many test? Conditions of those that died?

hospitalizations and deaths are the only stats that really matter

PhiAlpha
04-19-2020, 12:15 PM
Yes, you can. This is such a silly argument. The government is not trying to "take our freedoms." They're responding to a pandemic and trying to keep people from dying. There have been, and always will be, necessary trade-offs and limits to freedoms. We all make these trade-offs every. single. day. In this case, exercising "your freedoms" can cause other people to die. We all should seek to preserve important freedoms, but if you don't know the proper times to sacrifice like this pandemic or during WWII then it's more about putting individual selfishness over welfare of others.

Thats one way to look at it, but I don’t think it’s the right one. Though I don’t agree with you very often so that probably shouldn’t be surprising. It isn’t individual selfishness, it’s an unwillingness to give up freedoms because of the slippery slope it creates. I will never agree to anything like what you are suggesting and the massive invasion of privacy that creates...and I say that as a Republican with Republicans in control of most of the government currently. Mandatory tracking of individuals by using their cell phones is just not a box I want opened.

Pete
04-19-2020, 12:18 PM
Updated for Sunday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona041920a.jpg

PhiAlpha
04-19-2020, 12:19 PM
Read up on Typhoid Mary to broaden your perspective a bit.

Yeah using one crazy outlier to advocate for more government control is a bit disturbing.

PhiAlpha
04-19-2020, 12:21 PM
This happened.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e9b473dc5b6ea335d5c6981?ncid=engmodushpmg00000 003&fbclid=IwAR3wIuiVPhsEIT-pIPiV8ZIhcNLtiXSXlIDWAn0rpGKyzTu94qpgnLyvREw

And more things like this will continue to happen and happen more frequently until a timeline is put in place to reopen things. I get that you either have a job that isn’t threatened by this or are fine collecting unemployment for the foreseeable future...but many of us aren’t in that position.

oklip955
04-19-2020, 12:38 PM
I say we need to keep things semi shut down for another month until the numbers come down. I am over 60 with a persissant cough most of the year due to allergies and althma. I cannot take most of the athma meds. I've been told that I am in a moderate risk if I get it. The only real way for me to aviod this is to just stay home. Since I am retired, that is what I am doing. I have been out now once to shop for food since the lockdown. Iwas social distancing long before it. I plan on only going out maybe once a month or so for shopping until this gets much better. Just not worth the risk.

kukblue1
04-19-2020, 05:06 PM
I say we need to keep things semi shut down for another month until the numbers come down. I am over 60 with a persissant cough most of the year due to allergies and althma. I cannot take most of the athma meds. I've been told that I am in a moderate risk if I get it. The only real way for me to aviod this is to just stay home. Since I am retired, that is what I am doing. I have been out now once to shop for food since the lockdown. Iwas social distancing long before it. I plan on only going out maybe once a month or so for shopping until this gets much better. Just not worth the risk.

It's hard though but the over 60 crowd is the ones we really need to protect. It's hard though cause I work 53 other half 64 doesn't work and has COPD. Luckily I work in a office where it's just one of us at a time we just have to make sure we are cleaning after every shift so i feel fairly safe. If were going to open the country back up it needs to start with the under 40/50 healthy crowd and do it slowly. Just look at the deaths. Most are 65 and over. Then there is the 50-64. Under 50 there only been like 5? Way less than the flu.

OKC Talker
04-20-2020, 09:30 AM
Interesting background information:

"The Governor and Oklahoma State Health Department are using modeling data from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) at the University of Washington in Seattle.

The model uses reported deaths from all over the world to project hospital surges.

The IHME model has been widely criticized because it is a statistical model and does not use any information about transmission rates and has no basis in epidemiology.

The model has been criticized by many in the science community due to the volatility in its predictions.

A critique of the model was in the Annals of Internal Medicine published Wednesday, the same day the Governor’s office started widely distributing its model:

One group of international data scientists found the model to be inaccurate in 70% of states in its predictions of death rates, the main metric it uses to model hospital use.

One academic with extensive experience in epidemic modeling criticized Oklahoma’s citation-absent model.

“I think big problems are too much information and a lack of context for any specific result. A model is only as good as its assumptions and data, both of which should be available,” said Dr. Sean Laverty, who holds a doctorate in mathematical biology. He has done research in the mathematics of epidemiology."

https://freepressokc.com/flawed-scientific-model-basis-for-governor-stitts-reopening-plans/