It's both the Nursing home and the Government's job to protect their patients and citizens respectively.

A quick google search tells me there are approximately ~15,600 longer-term care facilities in the US.
It also tells me the National Guard has about 450,000 people.

It would have been so unbelievably easy to station guards women and men as de facto security and policy enforcers at these facilities to ensure that we knew exactly who was in/out and be able to better manage contact tracing. The policies would basically state that the only people in are those who are caring for these elderly, and that those people would need to undergo vigorous testing and quarantine procedures. Incoming shipments of food/etc would be highly managed.

Strict policing of the most vulnerable population would have allowed the less vulnerable to maintain a more normal day to day existence and build up herd immunity amongst those that were least likely to exhibit symptoms and eventually need to go to the hospital.


As long as it's done fairly without regard to age, race, religion, or wealth:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/opinion/coronavirus-immunity-passports.html

EDIT: Huh, these subjects may spark too many political responses... Excerpt removed. People can click the link if they want to know what I mean by "fairly" and be triggered.

It does sound like the Gilead drug will end up being a big part of the Answer: https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

Very positive news, I'd say.

It does sound like the Gilead drug will end up being a big part of the Answer: https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/

Very positive news, I'd say.

Yes but it's not in a pill form and there for hard to give to everyone. There also might not be very much of it also.

As long as it's done fairly without regard to age, race, religion, or wealth:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/opinion/coronavirus-immunity-passports.html

EDIT: Huh, these subjects may spark too many political responses... Excerpt removed. People can click the link if they want to know what I mean by "fairly" and be triggered.

To be sure, the ship has sailed on this, and the approach we must take today is different than the approach we could have taken if we had just been more strategic from the beginning. Obviously one would hope that ALL long-term care facilities, whether in the poorest areas of Detroit or the richest areas of Orange County would have been under the same "control' of the National Guard.

Future measures as to who is going to have liberty to be out and about have 0% chance of occurring in a fair and just manner because we have centuries of habits exhibiting how difficult doing so is for America. i mean, I hope we take this time to look at our past mistakes and begin the process of reconciliation, but we're more likely to slip into bad habits.

Yes but it's not in a pill form and there for hard to give to everyone. There also might not be very much of it also.

When you say everyone, do you mean all people, or just all those in the hospital? We don't need people with minor symptoms taking these kinds of precautions, just people who are hospitalized and for whom basic precautions does not immediately stabilize/improve their condition.

It's both the Nursing home and the Government's job to protect their patients and citizens respectively.

A quick google search tells me there are approximately ~15,600 longer-term care facilities in the US.
It also tells me the National Guard has about 450,000 people.

It would have been so unbelievably easy to station guards women and men as de facto security and policy enforcers at these facilities to ensure that we knew exactly who was in/out and be able to better manage contact tracing. The policies would basically state that the only people in are those who are caring for these elderly, and that those people would need to undergo vigorous testing and quarantine procedures. Incoming shipments of food/etc would be highly managed.

Strict policing of the most vulnerable population would have allowed the less vulnerable to maintain a more normal day to day existence and build up herd immunity amongst those that were least likely to exhibit symptoms and eventually need to go to the hospital.

Some are doing it right - my uncle lives at Embark in the Village, just in an apartment, not really assisted-living or nursing home, but they've pretty much locked the doors, no visitors, no leaving the grounds for residents, no congregating, meals are brought to their rooms, the staff does grocery shopping for the residents now, etc.

When you say everyone, do you mean all people, or just all those in the hospital? We don't need people with minor symptoms taking these kinds of precautions, just people who are hospitalized and for whom basic precautions does not immediately stabilize/improve their condition.

Anyone that is sick and showing symptoms. We can't give it to people at home if it works well cause it's not in a pill form. Say it does work well but your at home fairly sick. You can't take it you would have to go to the hospital which would flood the hospitals Sooner you can treat people maybe the better the outcome. You don't really want to wait until the get on a ventilator to give it too them if you don't have too if it works well.

KFOR did a story about how you new can track cases by cities but I can't seem to find anything?

Some are doing it right - my uncle lives at Embark in the Village, just in an apartment, not really assisted-living or nursing home, but they've pretty much locked the doors, no visitors, no leaving the grounds for residents, no congregating, meals are brought to their rooms, the staff does grocery shopping for the residents now, etc.
The place my mom is in started screening visitors (taking temperature and asking symptom related questions) the morning after the Thunder game was cancelled. Within a few days after that they closed to all visitors. We can drop stuff off for mom outside the door and it gets sanitized before it goes in. Thats as close as you get to your loved one.

Travellers/Bill,

I'm assuming you all can still contact your family members via telephone/skype etc. Have those facilities had any cases at all?

Travellers/Bill,

I'm assuming you all can still contact your family members via telephone/skype etc. Have those facilities had any cases at all?
In my case my mom is mentally past being able to talk on a phone or even knowing what one is. I guess thats a good thing. At least I hope so. In fact she sleeps probably 20 hours a day. But still......

Travellers/Bill,

I'm assuming you all can still contact your family members via telephone/skype etc. Have those facilities had any cases at all?

Haven't talked to my uncle in a week or so, but last I heard, no. We need to call him in the next few days and I'll ask again and post back if that changes.

In my case my mom is mentally past being able to talk on a phone or even knowing what one is. I guess thats a good thing. At least I hope so. In fact she sleeps probably 20 hours a day. But still......

I can't imagine how hard it is to not be able to spend these moments with her. Hopefully you will be reunited soon!

I can't imagine how hard it is to not be able to spend these moments with her. Hopefully you will be reunited soon!Thanks. It is hard but I have two sisters who it’s really harder on. I pray for them daily. My biggest fear, and I think I’m justified, is that this really goes on for MONTHS and she passes without being able to see her.

Thanks. It is hard but I have two sisters who it’s really harder on. I pray for them daily. My biggest fear, and I think I’m justified, is that this really goes on for MONTHS and she passes without being able to see her.

My mother was in a very similar condition as you describe yours. Send her cards and photographs. Lots of photographs.

I saw a good tip for anyone who has loved ones that are older from Reddit. Buy a cheap 4G tablet and have them on your cell plan for 10 bucks a month so you can video call them. Here is the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LifeProTips/comments/g263iu/lpt_do_you_have_an_older_relative_who_you_want_to/

My mother was in a very similar condition as you describe yours. Send her cards and photographs. Lots of photographs.Good idea

KFOR did a story about how you new can track cases by cities but I can't seem to find anything?

I haven't seen cities. This tracks by counties.
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/0e8ccb659c804924b72ddc862ec0eadf

A bunch of interesting polling data here: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-are-americans-adjusting-to-life-in-a-pandemic/

New scientific study just out that further confirms the need for masks if near people at all: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1

Thanks for this, nice to see a paper that actually has science behind it, rather than articles with a bunch of "may"s, "can"s, "should"s, etc. Looks like there's still some conflicting information between this one and another couple of studies that you posted (I'm still reading those, and will post something about them later), though.

This part is one of the (seeming) contradictions:

"Based on our detailed discussion above, cloth masks have not been shown to increase
the risk of infection in people using them compared to not wearing any mask."

Other studies say that if you wear a mask and adjust it, then yes, your risk does increase. And I believe that pretty much all the studies say that washing hands, sanitizing surfaces, and social distancing still must happen while wearing cloth masks, so there's that caveat too.

I don't think America's going to go in for wholesale "wear a mask every time you leave your house, for the next however long, maybe forever", so we'll see what happens.

Another floating "science experiment" that supports the idea that the total number of cases has been far higher than reported. Which is good because that means mortality rate is lower than the initial 2 to 3 percent estimate. True, this is a ship loaded with young people, but the diamond princess was loaded with older people and those numbers suggest the same thing. There is going to be a bunch of antibody studies coming out here shortly also.

https://news.yahoo.com/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=41035d11 478213ce9f907e5c3a307213bc50a5d5-1587139475-0-AbKZC7eQ6NrkdrC7_e0kKjJ2Qmv38XYF2yjV8hQ7LKbncKHZfl djY1IiYyoZUc82kgo-C1HRjXI6phlnYqoeZWR153RDgVt8TuWpFdZyNtv7m29EfNI2Rz a9Jdy_pOBQ_XRWAe72KCUhqO_fN9SW34nA1NObWIX5fheSs0S7 XAUE9GXfP-kvl56D-30B1j0awH9ktrrZZSASbv2iPW9_EjtSPxFE4_TTykU1IHrB0HW cVU-X6YAkVWBuw6r9jo1JAS91-P5C_tEgLlDaI93yZnvSvhIXc99pqeo60bbRHGbSX616Wa7qn0E HNBE_GrpNA_l65Pen9Vo-Jdu9NPek784
Study out of California from testing in early April, 50-85x more prevalent than the number of confirmed cases.

Good article on the mechanics of COVID-19:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-coronavirus-patients-sicker-others_l_5e8f8333c5b6d641a6bbf629

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=41035d11 478213ce9f907e5c3a307213bc50a5d5-1587139475-0-AbKZC7eQ6NrkdrC7_e0kKjJ2Qmv38XYF2yjV8hQ7LKbncKHZfl djY1IiYyoZUc82kgo-C1HRjXI6phlnYqoeZWR153RDgVt8TuWpFdZyNtv7m29EfNI2Rz a9Jdy_pOBQ_XRWAe72KCUhqO_fN9SW34nA1NObWIX5fheSs0S7 XAUE9GXfP-kvl56D-30B1j0awH9ktrrZZSASbv2iPW9_EjtSPxFE4_TTykU1IHrB0HW cVU-X6YAkVWBuw6r9jo1JAS91-P5C_tEgLlDaI93yZnvSvhIXc99pqeo60bbRHGbSX616Wa7qn0E HNBE_GrpNA_l65Pen9Vo-Jdu9NPek784
Study out of California from testing in early April, 50-85x more prevalent than the number of confirmed cases.

Yep, This virus is definitely unique in that amount of people that it doesn't really affect at all. Should be given a new name: The All or Nothing Virus

It looks like Oklahoma updated the way they are reporting.

https://coronavirus.health.ok.gov/

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/corona041720b.jpg

The place my mom is in started screening visitors (taking temperature and asking symptom related questions) the morning after the Thunder game was cancelled. Within a few days after that they closed to all visitors. We can drop stuff off for mom outside the door and it gets sanitized before it goes in. Thats as close as you get to your loved one.

Taking people's temperature as a screening device is devoid of value. People who are very sick sometimes don't have a fever. People who are asymptomatic "superspreaders" don't have a fever. This is just something people do to try to feel better but provides no meaningful defense against COVID-19 spread.

Another floating "science experiment" that supports the idea that the total number of cases has been far higher than reported. Which is good because that means mortality rate is lower than the initial 2 to 3 percent estimate. True, this is a ship loaded with young people, but the diamond princess was loaded with older people and those numbers suggest the same thing. There is going to be a bunch of antibody studies coming out here shortly also.

https://news.yahoo.com/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

Feel like active military personnel is not the best control group for this kind of thing: Generally young, super healthy, and regulated diets.

Taking people's temperature as a screening device is devoid of value. People who are very sick sometimes don't have a fever. People who are asymptomatic "superspreaders" don't have a fever. This is just something people do to try to feel better but provides no meaningful defense against COVID-19 spread.

I think most people have come around to that. As Bill mentioned, that was an initial precaution they put in place, and have since just shut the place down.

Taking people's temperature as a screening device is devoid of value. People who are very sick sometimes don't have a fever. People who are asymptomatic "superspreaders" don't have a fever. This is just something people do to try to feel better but provides no meaningful defense against COVID-19 spread.
I agree. But I’ve heard of a number of companies taking employees temps on the way in. There was also a governor, I don’t know which state, that said in an interview that part of opening restaurants in his state would probably be taking patrons temps at the door.

Said it long ago, many times since, and will say it again now - testing, testing, testing, testing, testing, and more testing. We need to have hundreds of millions of tests in stock and starting to be used, that's the *only* way we can figure out a way forward. Temps, masks, social distancing, etc., are all kind of part of it, but we *must* increase testing immensely.

Other studies say that if you wear a mask and adjust it, then yes, your risk does increase. And I believe that pretty much all the studies say that washing hands, sanitizing surfaces, and social distancing still must happen while wearing cloth masks, so there's that caveat too.

I don't think America's going to go in for wholesale "wear a mask every time you leave your house, for the next however long, maybe forever", so we'll see what happens.

Yes, we need more education on how to properly wear a mask so people understand that you still need to avoid touching your face and the mask. That can be done though. We've educated on other issues pretty quickly.

I don't wear a mask any time I go outside. I go for walks and runs and don't wear one because I can keep 20-30 feet from people at all times. I wear a mask any time I'm going to come into contact with people and I think that does need to become the norm. It's a way better option than say a 15% increase in transmissions that leads to another shelter-in-place down the road.

Antibody research indicates coronavirus may be far more widespread than known (https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antibody-research-coronavirus-widespread/story?id=70206121&cid=social_twitter_abcn)


“Our findings suggest that there is somewhere between 50- and 80-fold more infections in our county than what’s known by the number of cases than are reported by our department of public health," Dr. Eran Bendavid, the associate professor of medicine at Stanford University who led the study, said in an interview with ABC News' Diane Sawyer.

Heartland hotspots: A sudden rise in coronavirus cases is hitting rural states without stay-at-home orders (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html)

Washington (CNN)The test results came back on Easter Sunday. Tammy had been feeling "kind of crappy" when she went to her doctor in rural southeastern Oklahoma last week. A sign of possible pneumonia prompted her to get a coronavirus test later that day at the McCurtain County Health Department in Idabel.

When it came back positive, Tammy, who spoke on the condition that CNN not use her last name to protect her privacy, had already quarantined herself. Isolated, she decided to write her governor, Kevin Stitt, the first-term Republican and one of just 8 governors in the US to resist issuing a statewide stay-at-home-order. Tammy had voted for Stitt but she didn't agree with his decision.

Her message to him was simple: "Shut this mess down."

Just as cases are starting to plateau in some big cities and along the coasts, the coronavirus is catching fire in rural states across the American heartland, where there has been a small but significant spike this week in cases. Playing out amid these outbreaks is a clash between a frontier culture that values individual freedom and personal responsibility, and the onerous but necessary restrictions to contain a novel biological threat.

The bump in coronavirus cases is most pronounced in states without stay at home orders. Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike.

Heartland hotspots: A sudden rise in coronavirus cases is hitting rural states without stay-at-home orders (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/17/politics/republican-governors-stay-at-home-coronavirus/index.html)

Washington (CNN)The test results came back on Easter Sunday. Tammy had been feeling "kind of crappy" when she went to her doctor in rural southeastern Oklahoma last week. A sign of possible pneumonia prompted her to get a coronavirus test later that day at the McCurtain County Health Department in Idabel.

When it came back positive, Tammy, who spoke on the condition that CNN not use her last name to protect her privacy, had already quarantined herself. Isolated, she decided to write her governor, Kevin Stitt, the first-term Republican and one of just 8 governors in the US to resist issuing a statewide stay-at-home-order. Tammy had voted for Stitt but she didn't agree with his decision.

Her message to him was simple: "Shut this mess down."

Just as cases are starting to plateau in some big cities and along the coasts, the coronavirus is catching fire in rural states across the American heartland, where there has been a small but significant spike this week in cases. Playing out amid these outbreaks is a clash between a frontier culture that values individual freedom and personal responsibility, and the onerous but necessary restrictions to contain a novel biological threat.

The bump in coronavirus cases is most pronounced in states without stay at home orders. Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike.

Meh, I think it is more because OK finally started testing a little more. 53% is reasonable, when we were barely testing at all. Those other states have bigger problems. OK I think is fine. You will obviously have more positives if you test more.

Florida beaches are re-opening today for "essential" fishing, biking, swimming, and etc...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/jacksonville-beaches-reopen-coronavirus-phase-1-restriction

Taking people's temperature as a screening device is devoid of value. People who are very sick sometimes don't have a fever. People who are asymptomatic "superspreaders" don't have a fever. This is just something people do to try to feel better but provides no meaningful defense against COVID-19 spread.

I think that OKC is actually taking people's temperature at the door of City Hall before allowing them into the building

Meh, I think it is more because OK finally started testing a little more. 53% is reasonable, when we were barely testing at all. Those other states have bigger problems. OK I think is fine. You will obviously have more positives if you test more.

I'm sure social distancing helps, but the author of that article left out other states to compare to. Here are the 5 states listed in the article with their 1 Week average rate of growth. Some might say OMG look at South Dakota! But I will point out that around 500 of those 1,311 cases came from 1 meat packing plant. Its hard to social distance at a facility like this.It only takes 1 individual to infect the place. Just like it takes 1 individual to infect a nursing home. The good thing about a Meat plant is that most people can handle it. Good thing too, because shutting down food processing facilities is bad for our long term health.


States with Partial or No Social Distancing Orders
Oklahoma New Cases, 1 Week Average .97X
Arkansas New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.01X
Nebraska New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.03x
Iowa New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.04X
South Dakota New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.17X


States with Full Social Distancing Orders
New Mexico New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.04X
California New Cases, 1 Week Average .98X
North Dakota New Cases, 1 Week Average 1.02X
Oregon New Cases, 1 Week Average .94X
Connecticut, 1 Week Average .99x
Mississippi, 1 Week Average 1.03X
Texas, 1 Week Average .99x
Kansas, 1 Week Average .98X

Said it long ago, many times since, and will say it again now - testing, testing, testing, testing, testing, and more testing. We need to have hundreds of millions of tests in stock and starting to be used, that's the *only* way we can figure out a way forward. Temps, masks, social distancing, etc., are all kind of part of it, but we *must* increase testing immensely.

Agree Agree Agree. I'm for everyone having a card that you must show that you have been tested and have the antibodies in your system. Even check it once a month and get another card. You must show your card to enter a store or business or go back to work. I'm sure people will have fake cards though that's the problem with that i guess.

On another note wow traffic was bad today. People are out spending that money already. Don't be giving it to the big companies support places that have been close for weeks now/ Whataburger on council had about 11 cars in drive last night at 11:30 at night.

Agree Agree Agree. I'm for everyone having a card that you must show that you have been tested and have the antibodies in your system. Even check it once a month and get another card. You must show your card to enter a store or business or go back to work. I'm sure people will have fake cards though that's the problem with that i guess.

On another note wow traffic was bad today. People are out spending that money already. Don't be giving it to the big companies support places that have been close for weeks now/ Whataburger on council had about 11 cars in drive last night at 11:30 at night.

First time I have been out today in two weeks (just took the car for a nice drive) and noticed the traffic was like a normal day. I don't know if people are going back to work or just starting to not stay home!

Agree Agree Agree. I'm for everyone having a card that you must show that you have been tested and have the antibodies in your system. Even check it once a month and get another card. You must show your card to enter a store or business or go back to work. I'm sure people will have fake cards though that's the problem with that i guess.

China is doing this with barcodes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/15/asia/china-coronavirus-qr-code-intl-hnk/index.html

China is doing this with barcodes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/15/asia/china-coronavirus-qr-code-intl-hnk/index.html

That is some serious Rockefeller type ****, and I'm not cool with any part of it.

https://www.okctalk.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by kukblue1https://www.okctalk.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png
(https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?p=1115324#post1115324)Agree Agree Agree. I'm for everyone having a card that you must show that you have been tested and have the antibodies in your system. Even check it once a month and get another card. You must show your card to enter a store or business or go back to work. I'm sure people will have fake cards though that's the problem with that i guess.


China is doing this with barcodes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/15/asia/china-coronavirus-qr-code-intl-hnk/index.html

I just don't see any situation in which something like that, any kind of tracking app, or system that will be seen as a restriction on freedom or invasion on privacy will ever be widely accepted or adopted here. I sure as hell know I don't want anything like that on my phone and would scream from the rooftops if I wasn't allowed to enter a store or anything else because I HADN'T contracted the virus. F*** anything like that.

I just don't see any situation in which something like that, any kind of tracking app, or system that will be seen as a restriction on freedom or invasion on privacy will ever be widely accepted or adopted here. I sure as hell know I don't want anything like that on my phone and would scream from the rooftops if I wasn't allowed to enter a store or anything else because I HADN'T contracted the virus. F*** anything like that.

Are you on board with everybody being tested (possibly multiple times, and possibly for both the virus and antibodies), though?

Agree Agree Agree. I'm for everyone having a card that you must show that you have been tested and have the antibodies in your system. Even check it once a month and get another card. You must show your card to enter a store or business or go back to work. I'm sure people will have fake cards though that's the problem with that i guess.

On another note wow traffic was bad today. People are out spending that money already. Don't be giving it to the big companies support places that have been close for weeks now/ Whataburger on council had about 11 cars in drive last night at 11:30 at night.

What about people who do not have pockets. Maybe an armband or lanyard?

Yes, we need more education on how to properly wear a mask so people understand that you still need to avoid touching your face and the mask. That can be done though. ...

You sure about that, lol?

https://thechive.com/2020/04/16/people-are-complete-fing-idiots-coronavirus-edition-30-photos/

I just don't see any situation in which something like that, any kind of tracking app, or system that will be seen as a restriction on freedom or invasion on privacy will ever be widely accepted or adopted here. I sure as hell know I don't want anything like that on my phone and would scream from the rooftops if I wasn't allowed to enter a store or anything else because I HADN'T contracted the virus. F*** anything like that.

Agreed. I'm actually surprised to see so many Americans advocating for this.

Agreed. I'm actually surprised to see so many Americans advocating for this.

I think people might be fine with it if we were guaranteed that the Rockefellian Barcodes would go away at some point. Problem is, you can't give a government (even an alleged democratic one) a fun, new power and expect the government to just give it back once the crisis has passed.

We would be letting the Genie out of the proverbial bottle.

Mark of the Beast.

You sure about that, lol?

https://thechive.com/2020/04/16/people-are-complete-fing-idiots-coronavirus-edition-30-photos/

Wait... #4. Canadian paper money melts?

Yep. It's made of plastic.

Are you on board with everybody being tested (possibly multiple times, and possibly for both the virus and antibodies), though?

For multiple tests, who's paying for it? I'm fine with everyone getting tested multiple times voluntarily and I think enough tests should be available so that anyone that wants one/needs one can get it done but I don't think being tested should be required by the government (except maybe for state and government employees). If a company wants to require it before allowing you back to work...go for it. If hospitals and long-term care facilities want to require that you be tested...sure. If/when a vaccine is developed...apply it in the same way that mandatory vaccinations are now...it's required to go to school, etc. Otherwise treat it like the flu shot and highly encourage people to get it...I think most people will happily volunteer to get it after all this.

What about people who do not have pockets. Maybe an armband or lanyard?

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Yep. It's made of plastic.

That one was puzzling to me too, didn't have the impetus to google it, thanks!

I think people might be fine with it if we were guaranteed that the Rockefellian Barcodes would go away at some point. Problem is, you can't give a government (even an alleged democratic one) a fun, new power and expect the government to just give it back once the crisis has passed.

We would be letting the Genie out of the proverbial bottle.

It would have to be on a government issued device that gets turned in once all of this is over. An individual would bee free to never obtain the device, but exercising that freedom would limit the individual (similar to REAL ID) from certain governmental buildings etc. Private businesses would have the right to participate or take their own precautions, most businesses would likely participate.

All the things we're going to be debating to manage the aftermath of this crisis are going to show just why our reaction to this was so delayed in the first place. Democracies don't really handle crises well and our federal republic makes it even that much more difficult.

For multiple tests, who's paying for it? I'm fine with everyone getting tested multiple times voluntarily and I think enough tests should be available so that anyone that wants one/needs one can get it done but I don't think being tested should be required by the government (except maybe for state and government employees). If a company wants to require it before allowing you back to work...go for it. If hospitals and long-term care facilities want to require that you be tested...sure. If/when a vaccine is developed...apply it in the same way that mandatory vaccinations are now...it's required to go to school, etc. Otherwise treat it like the flu shot and highly encourage people to get it...I think most people will happily volunteer to get it after all this.

Don't know who would pay for it, I'm not the one that would implement it, I'll leave that up to the smart people. :) Seriously, though, yeah, details would need to be worked out. I believe there are countries (Australia, for one) that are implementing testing at no cost, and either their national health care systems or insurance is paying.

And yes, infringement on our liberties is likely to be a cause testing won't be implemented as mandatory, but if only 1/3 of the population gets tested, would you feel comfortable walking back into a 3/4 full restaurant not knowing who has it, who's had it, who's had it and won't get it again (premature on that point, we don't know if having antibodies confers immunity yet)? Wonder if private businesses would require people to show that they've been tested in order to enter (or movie theaters or The Criterion or Chesapeake)? Would that be a good PR thing or a bad one (either "Hey, if I go to this concert, I can be pretty sure there's not tons of the virus floating around in here" or "I'm never going to go there again, how dare they ask me to show if I've been tested")?

Testing and vaccines need to go hand-in-hand for the foreseeable future, though - *tons* more need to be tested, and as many as can get the vaccine when it's available need to get it (mandatory for school-age kids and very, very, very, very highly encouraged for *everybody*, not just the elderly and immunocompromised).

And yes, infringement on our liberties is likely to be a cause testing won't be implemented as mandatory, but if only 1/3 of the population gets tested, would you feel comfortable walking back into a 3/4 full restaurant not knowing who has it, who's had it, who's had it and won't get it again (premature on that point, we don't know if having antibodies confers immunity yet)? Wonder if private businesses would require people to show that they've been tested in order to enter (or movie theaters or The Criterion or Chesapeake)? Would that be a good PR thing or a bad one (either "Hey, if I go to this concert, I can be pretty sure there's not tons of the virus floating around in here" or "I'm never going to go there again, how dare they ask me to show if I've been tested")?


Here is the problem... It will become political and half of the customers will be offended either way. The businesses are in a catch 2020.

Don't know who would pay for it, I'm not the one that would implement it, I'll leave that up to the smart people. :) Seriously, though, yeah, details would need to be worked out. I believe there are countries (Australia, for one) that are implementing testing at no cost, and either their national health care systems or insurance is paying.

And yes, infringement on our liberties is likely to be a cause testing won't be implemented as mandatory, but if only 1/3 of the population gets tested, would you feel comfortable walking back into a 3/4 full restaurant not knowing who has it, who's had it, who's had it and won't get it again (premature on that point, we don't know if having antibodies confers immunity yet)? Wonder if private businesses would require people to show that they've been tested in order to enter (or movie theaters or The Criterion or Chesapeake)? Would that be a good PR thing or a bad one (either "Hey, if I go to this concert, I can be pretty sure there's not tons of the virus floating around in here" or "I'm never going to go there again, how dare they ask me to show if I've been tested")?

Testing and vaccines need to go hand-in-hand for the foreseeable future, though - *tons* more need to be tested, and as many as can get the vaccine when it's available need to get it (mandatory for school-age kids and very, very, very, very highly encouraged for *everybody*, not just the elderly and immunocompromised).

As much as it would be an infringement having to show you been tested I think more people would be willing to do so than not. https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/poll-72-of-people-will-not-attend-sporting-events-until-a-coronavirus-vaccine-is-available/2304452/
It would be better for business i'm sure.

Mark of the Beast.

:hairyguy:

Just a card I wouldn’t have a problem with. I have a card that says I can operate a motor vehicle, one that says I can enter the fed govt facility where I work, one that says I can be on the WRWA grounds, one that says I can do electrical work, one that says I can install and service alarm systems, and probably a couple more I’m forgetting. What’s one more for a noble cause of trying to keep people safe.